OT: teen responsible for Oregon fires to repay $37M

[AngryScientist]

https://www.sfgate.com/news/us/article/oregon-eagle-creek-fire-teen-who-started-it-37M-12931257.php

i dont get it.

what's the rationale on the Judge's part here. 15 year old kid who pled guilty ordered to repay $37M.

-he can set up a payment plan
-they can garnish his wages or bank accounts
-the debt is solely his responsibility, not his parents
-debt is forgiven after 10 years if he complies

sounds like there was no jail time and a minimal community service sentence.

i get the magnitude of the crime, but what's the point here?

i think it would have been much more impactful to make the kid do meaningful restitution typed community service for the next 10 years than try and bleed a few bucks out of him with a ridiculous judgement.

am i missing something?

[ergott]

Makes for a good headline in the news and judge gets some exposure.

[ergott]

Imagine if corporations were held to the same standard when they destroy our environment.

[BobbyJones]

It's all about precedent I'd assume. Maybe someone with more legal experience can chime in.

[echappist]

Makes for a good headline in the news and judge gets some exposure.

Imagine if corporations were held to the same standard when they destroy our environment.


agreed on both

life-long wage garnishment, parental responsibility, and life-long (may be paroled) community service at 500 hrs/yr would be the penalties i'd have preferred

[joosttx]

The punishment is used as a deterrent to others as well as penance. If the story gets some traction then it will bring awareness to others of the importance of the matter.

[kppolich]

I'm actually okay with this as an everyday reminder of how ignorant some people can be. I'd be willing to discount $10.00 for every tree he planted or piece of trash he picks up in the scorched earth area his 2 fireworks caused.

[FlashUNC]

The $37 million is the headline, but the reality is as you noted its basically a 10 year wage garnishment with whatever he pays off during that timeframe.

This stuff is a serious issue. Its why PG&E is doing all they can to try to show the Wine Country fires weren't downed power lines due to a windstorm.

[tctyres]

https://www.sfgate.com/news/us/article/oregon-eagle-creek-fire-teen-who-started-it-37M-12931257.php

i dont get it.
...

am i missing something?

Yes. The USFS has a long term fire suppression policy. This causes extra fuel to be in most mature and over-mature forests. When something unintentional happens like this fire, the costs are exorbitant because of that policy.

IMO, the kid made a bad decision, but he's not responsible for the fuel in the forest.

[AngryScientist]

Yes. The USFS has a long term fire suppression policy. This causes extra fuel to be in most mature and over-mature forests. When something unintentional happens like this fire, the costs are exorbitant because of that policy.

IMO, the kid made a bad decision, but he's not responsible for the fuel in the forest.

can you expand on this, i dont think i understand what you're saying with regard to fuel?

[stien]

can you expand on this, i dont think i understand what you're saying with regard to fuel?

I want to say it has something to do with not having controlled burns so the oldest forests are ready to burn easily and for a long time.

[jumphigher]

IMO they should hold the parents responsible in cases like this.

[Jaybee]

I want to say it has something to do with not having controlled burns so the oldest forests are ready to burn easily and for a long time.

Not sure of the area specifically in question, but the USFS does plenty of controlled burns in the areas I'm familiar with (CO, AZ, NM). Are they enough to prevent major fires or replicate a natural cycle of fire and recovery within a given forest type? Different question.

100% fire suppression has not been the policy for many years now.

[Mzilliox]

can you expand on this, i dont think i understand what you're saying with regard to fuel?

This seems to be some dismissal of blame based on the Forest Services poor forest management scheme. And while i would agree the government seems to have very little idea how to keep a forest healthy, i cannot give this kid a break because of some poor attempt to make an argument against the government's management style. Humans need to know that being stupid and careless is not acceptable. It has consequences.

Now proper forest management is an entirely different conversation, and humanity has done a crap job thus far. we really seem to have a problem understanding that plants perform multiple functions, and that a healthy understory is fire suppressive, not a fire danger. Instead we seem to remove the understory mistaking it as fuel, and we leave the old dead stuff that would burn in smaller fires.

I still remember my landlord once asking me to mow the lawn (large 3 acre property mostly wild meadow, not manicured lawn) to prevent fires. I asked her would she rather a runway of dry, dead grasses or a greenbelt of moist healthy grasses separate her house from the fire? when explained that way, she mentioned perhaps it was better to leave the grass alive and moist. I think she made the right choice. solutions are not always so simple s our tiny brains make them to be. and sometimes they are simply more simple.

[tctyres]

I want to say it has something to do with not having controlled burns so the oldest forests are ready to burn easily and for a long time.

Yes. That's it. There is mature brush at the edge of the forest, forest floor litter with dry branches and blow down, and older trees with more branches and thicker trunks available to burn.

[tctyres]

This seems to be some dismissal of blame based on the Forest Services poor forest management scheme. And while i would agree the government seems to have very little idea how to keep a forest healthy, i cannot give this kid a break because of some poor attempt to make an argument against the government's management style. Humans need to know that being stupid and careless is not acceptable. It has consequences.


I'm not going to exonerate the perpetrator, but a multimillion dollar fire over a large range is poor management. That risk is real and needs to be figured into the management plan. Any other possible start to that fire, natural or man-made, would have done the same thing.

[Mzilliox]

Imagine if corporations were held to the same standard when they destroy our environment.

If only! they want to be considered citizens, why not right?

[p nut]

I have no problems with the sentence. All the havoc this caused--freeway shut downs, evacuations, homes damaged. I think he got off light, considering those were the extent of the casualties. Imagine if human lives were involved...

[BobbyJones]

What's all this talk about Forest Management? Haven't you guys read the cougar thread?;)