Winter clothing-Pacific Northwest help needed

[wasfast]

I know there are plenty of PNW folks on the forum. I've been riding year round for the last 3 years. I've tried many different things and still seem to freeze in several areas, if not just overall. I'm riding for fitness/training, not commuting.

The problem is the winter when it's high 30's to low 40's, raining pretty good (1/4"-1/2" rain per day), and usually 10mph wind out of the south. I can handle cold, wet if it's warmer, but not cold and wet.

I have a rain bike with full fenders and extensions, just for the record.

Toes: I truly don't think there's anything to keep your feet warm. I would usually wear thin polypro socks, Smart wool socks, shoe, Neoprene booties. My feet are cold in 30 minutes on a 2-3 hour ride. I'm desparate enough to buy some battery powered heated inserts like those used for ski boots.

Water from the front of the tights seems to fill up my shoes no matter what which I think contributes to the cold. People complain about their feet sweating in sealed bags. I'd love to have sweaty feet but never have.


Legs: The Pearl Izumi AmFib tights are bulky and ill fitting but they do keep me warm as well as the Johnson warm which is nice. This is fine.

Torso: If I put on enough layers, then I sweat underneath and freeze. Not enough layers and I freeze from the start. The usual would be polypro base layer, expedition fleece top, and a Santini heavy weight jacket (windproof and thick). I also have a Pearl Izumi shell that I have used on the outside.

I keep hearing that using rain gear like Burley is too bulky, flappy in the wind and you sweat profusly underneath. No one I ride with seems to use them but I'm wondering.......

The conversation about breathing vs sweating doesn't quite make sense. If you do sweat underneath, provided you keep up the effort, it would seem that the moisture stays warm from more body heat and shouldn't cool you down since it's trapped in the clothing. However, conventional wisdom says get the moisture away from your skin but fabrics like Gore can't possibly move the amount of moisture made under full effort it would seem.

Any help is appreciated.

[gasman]

Gary-
These cold,wet and windy conditions are really hard to dress for. I do find that plastic bags over the socks helps as well as putting the tights over the top of the booties if possible. In spite of what people say about the Burley raincoat (RIP) I find that wearing that flapping yellow thing realy helps keep me warm. Big zips let you ventilate or close up depending on how cold you feel. Still, trying to keep the hands and feet warm for more than 1-2 hours is pretty hard. There are no fabrics that can transport moisture away from your body when you are working hard and keep the rain out.

[Climb01742]

showers pass.

[coylifut]

showers pass.

it sounds like your feet are the biggest issue. consider the showers pass shoe covers. They aren't going to win you any euro-pousseur style points, but after you start bragging how warm your feet are your friends will want a pair. It's a Seattle company and the guy who owns it really gets it.

http://showerspass.com/cart/product_info.php?cPath=21_27&products_id=39&osCsid=fdcf32d8257495f1d27b25eb38d60ac1

[OperaLover]

cycling shoes that are a 1/2 size larger. I normally wear a Sidi 42, so 42.5. I wear wool socks (Defeet) with SealSkinz waterproof socks over them. Again going with the next larger size. Just wear the shoes with no convers. Feet stay warm and dry and there is some moisture transfer, breathing if you will through the sealskinz. My problem with shoe covers is that they don't breathe and you get moisture buildup which translates to your feet getting cold and clammy.

For up top, I am not a fan of nylon jackets (with gore tex or some other membrane or not). I prefer to layer with jerseys, arm warmers, and then wool or other heavy jersey (PI Kodiak) on top. You get wet, but you stay warm. Again, breahability is the key. With the jacket there is the greenhouse effect. I overheat and just get all sweaty under the jacket without any evaporation. Face it you will get wet; the key is to stay warm.

Best of luck. Commuting keeps me sane!

[vaxn8r]

For wet and sub 40's:

Feet: Regular socks. shoes. Freezer baggies over the shoes with small cutouts over the cleat. Than duct tape around the ankles. It works for about 2 hours +/- depending on how wet and how good I apply the plastic and tape. But it works!

Legs: I prefer PI Am-Fib leg warmers because I can't stand tights. To restrictive. You can't find Am Fib warmers anymore because nobody makes them but I stocked up. If it's close to freezing and raining I will break down and wear tights.

Torso: Usually a Craft or Patagonia base layer. Long sleeve jersey Like Craft or PI Kodiak heavy or I have some wool/blends that are nice at wicking. Then add either an Assos MicroClima or if it's really cold I use the Burley rain coat. You can really open all the flaps if you want to for decent ventilation. Lot's of guys don't wear them because they don't look racy but it's an awesome rain coat if it's in the 30's. For me I don't wear it if 40's and above. At that point I sometimes just layer all my Craft stuff and keep the Assos in the pocket. Believe it or not you get wet but it wicks away better than you'd think.

Hands: never more than windtex gloves no matter how cold. My hands don't get very cold. But I almost always bring a spare set in my pocket. It is heaven to put on fresh, warm, dry gloves half way into a wet ride.

Head. Usually only a helmet but occasionally a light weight skull cap. I find with skull caps my glasses fog immediately which drives my nuts so I prefer a colder head unless it's truly freezing.

Good luck. Going out today?

[wasfast]

I do have a pair fo Seal Skinz but was underwhelmed with them. I don't care about dry, I care about warm. With the Seal Skinz over the DeFeet Woolie Boolies, I was still cold. I'm wierd perhaps....don't answer that.

Yes vax, I will be out today. It's nearly 60 degrees though so I don't care about getting wet. We had a wonderful summer, followed by on day in September (the only one it rained actually) where I took my rain bike since it was damp. About 6 miles from home, it hailed like I've never seen. There was literally 3/4" on the roads. I cut the loop short but the hail turned back to rain, probably the hardest I've ever been in and continued to rain all the way home. It quit about an hour later and didn't rain again until this last weekend. Yes, I rode home Sunday morning in a downpour but it wasn't cold.

I appreciate the other suggestions. I'm determined not to suffer from cold this winter. It makes the winter very long and there's no way I'm riding a trainer or rollers......sure way to provoke me to suicide.

[vaxn8r]

Try the freezer bags and tape. Your feet stay dryer longer and even when they finally get wet they're still warmer. Oh, and I forgot to add the part about booties over the freezer bags. I use a number of different booties. No preference.

[vaxn8r]

....I appreciate the other suggestions. I'm determined not to suffer from cold this winter. It makes the winter very long and there's no way I'm riding a trainer or rollers......sure way to provoke me to suicide.
What about if it's close to freezing and wet and windy? That drives me to do anything but ride.

I ride rollers or trainers. Just have to mix it up.

[bcm119]

Looks like everyone has their own tricks. Mine are: Gore Windstopper "Finish" jacket. I like this thing a lot. You can layer underneath depending on temperature. It will soak through eventually, but its a "warm wet".
Patagonia base layer. On the coldest days I wear a plain, LL Bean style wool sweater underneath the jacket.

Feet- I use the really thin plastic bags you get at the grocery store for lettuce. Over the socks, inside the shoes. I always zip the tights or leg warmers over the booties so the water doesn't drain in. I find with the plastic bags my feet will still get wet, but they are warm/sweaty.

After a wettish November, this winter is supposed to be warmer and drier than average. El Nino will be suppressing storms south into CA, supposedly.

[wasfast]

Feet- I use the really thin plastic bags you get at the grocery store for lettuce. Over the socks, inside the shoes. I always zip the tights or leg warmers over the booties so the water doesn't drain in. I find with the plastic bags my feet will still get wet, but they are warm/sweaty.

Warm/sweaty is fine, frozen meat isn't. I HATE the feeling of blood returing to my feet in the shower. It downright HURTS!

After a wettish November, this winter is supposed to be warmer and drier than average. El Nino will be suppressing storms south into CA, supposedly.

I've had a great fall riding wise thus far. The best part of the year actually. I truly hope the prediction is correct. Last winter it never seemed to stop raining. Record low temperature for my ride was 21F but at least it was dry that day. I also rode last Thanksgiving when it was 28 and very slick.

[coylifut]

[QUOTE=bcm119]On the coldest days I wear a plain, LL Bean style wool sweater underneath the jacket.

QUOTE]

I found a cashmere sweater at a second hand store that I use under my rain jacket when its doing that alday long, never going to stop raining. It's the softest most breathable fabric I've ever encountered. No wonder it's so expensive.

[Lincoln]

Oh my, that all sounds horrible.

[72gmc]

vax is right on: "It is heaven to put on fresh, warm, dry gloves half way into a wet ride."

this time of year there are three things i always have in my commuting bag: spare socks, spare gloves, and arm warmers.

when i'm just out riding for fun, i will bring spare gloves and otherwise just wear a cheap plastic rain cape and appropriate legwear. i get cold, i get wet, i get mucky. i repeat things like "ronde van vlanderen" to myself. i survive.

[coylifut]

vax is right on: "It is heaven to put on fresh, warm, dry gloves half way into a wet ride."

this time of year there are three things i always have in my commuting bag: spare socks, spare gloves, and arm warmers.

when i'm just out riding for fun, i will bring spare gloves and otherwise just wear a cheap plastic rain cape and appropriate legwear. i get cold, i get wet, i get mucky. i repeat things like "ronde van vlanderen" to myself. i survive.

what part of the country do you live in?

[72gmc]

i'm in seattle. i just haven't added it to my onscreen information.

yesterday's ride in was mist, then rain, then raining with prejudice. about all you can do is get wet and laugh at how silly it is.

[shinomaster]

just ride harder and you'll warm up.

[coylifut]

i'm in seattle. i just haven't added it to my onscreen information.

yesterday's ride in was mist, then rain, then raining with prejudice. about all you can do is get wet and laugh at how silly it is.

Just checkin. Some times we have people from Arizona telling us how to dress for the rain. Gotta filter those guys out if you know what I mean. Anyone from Seattle "gets it."

[Bittersweet]

I find these, or similar, toe warmers quite effective and use them in my shoes and with my booties on. I've had some pretty bad frostbite on my toes and once you've really done it badly they're never quite as good at staying warm. I find with the vibration and cold that my toes go quickly and a little external heat source really helps. You can get them for about $1.50 per pair so you need to weigh the cost vs. advantage of it. They last for quite while and depending on your shoes will fit without a problem.

http://www.warmers.com/ItemDetails.aspx?itemid=TWES40&pkey=Products%7cWarmers%7cToe+Warmers+(40+pair)&pval=0%7c1%7cTWES40&pIds=Showcase%7cCategoryID%7citemid

[72gmc]

no problem, coylifut. congrats on your racing success, btw.

wasfast: are your sure you aren't compromising your circulation with the foot layers you've tried? a tighter fit is just going to make it worse if you're already prone to cold feet...

[wasfast]

no problem, coylifut. congrats on your racing success, btw.

wasfast: are your sure you aren't compromising your circulation with the foot layers you've tried? a tighter fit is just going to make it worse if you're already prone to cold feet...

I don't believe so. I intentionally leave the shoe straps on the lighter side as well.

As a side note, I have hypo thyroid and found out this summer that I'm on the low side for meds. I definitely feel better since the change. I'm fantasizing that I won't be as cold this winter as cold is a classic side effect of hypothryoid.

Gotta go ride in the rain now, literally........

[dauwhe]

It seems to have rained for most of my riding this whole year... Some thoughts:

1. I really like the Showers Pass Elite Jacket. Fits close, so no flapping. Somehow has a wider comfort range than the Burley for me even though the ventilation system doesn't seem as extensive.
2. I haven't found a shoe cover I like. The Showers Pass is nice in cold weather, but I've not had good luck in rain.
3. The Burley helmet cover is wonderful, and seems to make a big difference, as does having a visor on the helmet (I can stretch the cover over the visor).
4. PI Amfib tights work well for me.
5. Fenders
6. Fenders
7. I bought some lobster claw shell mitts from a motorcycle clothing company (Aerostitch?) that are nice in horrible rain...
8. Mudflap
9. Fenders
10. Did I mention Fenders?
11. Lots of wool

Dave

[11.4]

For gloves, after trying every single model of winter glove in the market, plus Toko cross-country ski gloves, motorcycling gloves, etc., the best I've found have been the goretex ice-climbing shells made by Marmot or Mountain Hard Wear. They have a couple levels of them, and you don't need the ones that go up to your elbows or have built-in liners. Instead, just get the simple mitten shell (or the regular glove shell if your hands are more tolerant of cold). Get some wool or Capilene glove liners for inside, or you can use regular fingerless cycling gloves if the weather isn't too bad. The shells I have go up about 3 inches up above my wrist and have a drawstring there to cinch them tight. There's a very sticky durable palm and one layer of Goretex, but otherwise they are minimal. They still cost $105 for full seam-sealing and high-quality construction, but your hands breathe inside, stay completely dry, and you can swap glove liners during a ride without carrying a lot of bulk or weight. The same shells work for temperatures from the 50's down to the 20's. Much better than all the overpriced cycling industry stuff and if the weather improves, you can remove the shells instead. Check www.mountaingear.com for tons of alternatives.

[mermaid]

If a girl may offer an opinion, nothing beats wool as a base layer - Ibex undershirts or Smartwool rule. Then some kind of oil-based jersey (my favorite is a thick Castelli with fleece on the inside) and whatever other plastic layers on top of that to fend off rain and wind. I've been known to wear a thin wool sweater as a base layer - it's true that wool stays warm even when wet - so if you get sweaty you're still okay. Male racing pal swears by this too. But then he's got English blood in him...

[jcmuellner]

For the record, I live on the "dry" side of the Olympic Peninsula.

I ride in any weather, anytime of the day or night for one to dozens of hours. For the conditions wasfast first asked "high 30's to low 40's, raining pretty good" and wind I use nearly the same if any of the conditions exist alone.

Top: Woolisitc baselayer, sleeveless. Wool long sleeve jersey. Showers Pass rain jacket. If I stop for any length of time, I sometimes add wool arm warmers. If the ride is over 4-6 hours I also carry a Smartwool zip T. (Changing a flat in the dark and rain could require it).

Bottom: Wool tights, old PI verson that I have managed to keep repaired and functional for 16 years. One size larger shoes with wool socks and SideTrak neoprene booties.

Hands: Swiss army wool gloves with large shortie biking gloves over them for grip. Outdoor Research lobster shells if it's really wet and cold.

Head: Cycling cap with bill to keep rain off glasses. This wool hat over that if it's really cold. Hideous rain I use an elastic Saranwrap bag on my helmet.

Most important - plastic fenders don't go down far enough to make much difference for your feet (front) or your riding buddies (rear). If your bike can't take real fenders, then at least make flaps for the front and rear with material from a cat litter container and zip tie them on to the trailing edge of each fender. Better yet, mount the hardware on the *outside* of the fender.

Also important - tail lights, two won't hurt if the weather is crap and drivers can't see you. Weight means nothing when you're dead.

Your feet and your friends will love you. Nothing should stop you from riding in the great PNW :D !

[wasfast]

Just for the record, I have found solutions for the hands with various layers of gloves and a pair of ski gloves when it's really cold. I'd use the ski gloves more except they are a pain to dry out afterwards. Takes me 10 minutes to turn them inside out to dry.....

My ears are cold in any weather under 60 degrees. The best thing here has been a a fleece headband with a breathable skull cap underneath.

So, those are taken care of along with the male accessory that always used to get cold. My apologies for the female posters about reference ;)

I greatly appreciate all the comments. It looks like the main thing I need to look into is a Shower Pass jacket.

Thanks all.

BTW Vax I did ride yesterday but it was easy temperature wise. 62 degrees and raining. Very warm actually.

[vaxn8r]

BTW Vax I did ride yesterday but it was easy temperature wise. 62 degrees and raining. Very warm actually.
Me too. Funny thing was, there were showers all around me and the roads were wet but I did 3 hours without a single drop!

[big shanty]

I have terrible circulation in my feet and they always freeze up on the bike in the winter. Not to sound too fussy, but cashmere socks are a great solution...true performance fabric. I have 2 pairs and wear them most of the year in Seattle. My girlfriend got them for me....I think they go on sale at J Crew for ~$18/pair in the spring. In the big picture of sports gear, that's not bad. They can be sopping wet and they are still warm. In dry weather they wick like crazy and you don't get hot spots. Just don't cook them in the dryer.

[72gmc]

that's a good one, i'll have to try the cashmere socks. so far i've had good luck with the smartwool merino hiking liners. crew length, $10 a pair, really thin like i prefer. plus i get the dorky tall black sock look that's so hip with the cyclocrossers.