Question about setting up road tubeless

[ontarget]

So, I've decided to give road tubeless a try. I don't know why. Maybe it was the Schwalbe Pro Ones that I got on Amazon for $13 each coupled with my curiosity.

Anyway, the rims are Pacenti SL23s, which are "tubeless ready." I picked up some tubeless rim tape and applied two wraps. I mounted the tires and used a compressor to get them seated, then took them up to 100psi. I figured I'd just be sure they hold air before I introduce sealant. After letting them sit for a little over an hour, the front tire was still hard, but the rear was getting a little soft. By the next morning the rear had gone completely soft. I pumped the rear back up to 100psi and listened and felt for any leaks, but didn't detect anything.

For those of you with tubeless experience, would you recommend I retape the rear and try again, or is such a slow leak something that I should allow sealant to take care of?

[bigbill]

Add sealant to both and inflate. Some tires seat better than others, but sealant will likely fix your issue. I've been on road tubeless since last September. I'm on a cycling road trip with a road bike with tubeless (DT 511 and Panaracers) and the front holds air better than the rear but it's just as likely that when I eventually replace the rear tire, it will seat better.

The fact that you can seat and inflate the tire to 100# likely means your tape job is good. Bad tape reveals itself pretty quickly. Also, make sure the valve stem is tight.

[Cat3roadracer]

I have set up two sets of these recently. In my experience round valve stem bases will not work due to the recessed channel in the Pacenti rim. The only stems that worked for me had rectangular rubber bases, which effectively fit into the channel. 44mm as well, and make sure the cores are removable.

Good luck.

[B^2]

its probably a combination of sealant and possibly the valve stems as someone mentioned.

[echappist]

So, I've decided to give road tubeless a try. I don't know why. Maybe it was the Schwalbe Pro Ones that I got on Amazon for $13 each coupled with my curiosity.

wait what? when were those deals around


Anyway, the rims are Pacenti SL23s, which are "tubeless ready." I picked up some tubeless rim tape and applied two wraps. I mounted the tires and used a compressor to get them seated, then took them up to 100psi. I figured I'd just be sure they hold air before I introduce sealant. After letting them sit for a little over an hour, the front tire was still hard, but the rear was getting a little soft. By the next morning the rear had gone completely soft. I pumped the rear back up to 100psi and listened and felt for any leaks, but didn't detect anything.

For those of you with tubeless experience, would you recommend I retape the rear and try again, or is such a slow leak something that I should allow sealant to take care of?

as mentioned upthread, your taping is fine. I had issues with introducing any pressure to the tire and had to rely on the combination of methods (pre-seat one side of the tire with a tube in there and the purchasing of a special tubeless pump) to get it to work.

Once the sealant is introduced, bounce the tire up and down while rotating it; this gives you better coverage. That worked for me when i had issues with tire holding air.

[iwantone]

I agree with the other comments.
Add sealant.

I've had tires that cant hold air for more than an hour without sealant. But when sealant is added and worked in, they hold just fine.

Sounds like you got a fantastic deal on the Pro Ones!

[kppolich]

Agree with everyone, valve stems and sealant. Nice deal on the Pro1's!

[weisan]

It's good timing to see this thread. I ran into some issue myself yesterday trying to set up the Schwalbe Pro One 25mm tubeless tire on my Pacenti SL23 wheels. I was able to install it and inflate it even with a normal floor pump without sealant. And then when I deflated it by removing the core valve and after injecting Orange Seal sealant, the tire deflates inwards to the middle and the beads are not longer hooked on to the rim sides. It becomes impossible to inflate using a floor pump afterwards.

[echappist]

It's good timing to see this thread. I ran into some issue myself yesterday trying to set up the Schwalbe Pro One 25mm tubeless tire on my Pacenti SL23 wheels. I was able to install it and inflate it even with a normal floor pump without sealant. And then when I deflated it by removing the core valve and after injecting Orange Seal sealant, the tire deflates inwards to the middle and the beads are not longer hooked on to the rim sides. It becomes impossible to inflate using a floor pump afterwards.

stick a regular tube in there; inflate to seat the beads; deflate, but maintain one of the beads hooked; take out tube and inflate again

[weisan]

stick a regular tube in there; inflate to seat the beads; deflate, but maintain one of the beads hooked; take out tube and inflate again

thanks echap pal for the tip. But what about all the sealant already in there, wouldn't it be a mess? Just to be clear, I was able to get the bead hooked earlier without the sealant. It was after removing the valve core and injecting sealant, that I ran into issue.

[ColonelJLloyd]

thanks echap pal for the tip. But what about all the sealant already in there, wouldn't it be a mess? Just to be clear, I was able to get the bead hooked earlier without the sealant. It was after removing the valve core and injecting sealant, that I ran into issue.

Yeah, I see no point in putting a tube in there as seating the beads initially was not a problem. You did just what I always do and I haven't experienced this issue. Not sure why your beads are coming loose when you lose pressure. But, yeah, that's a problem. Maybe try 4-6 single wraps of tape around the rim and tire before removing the valve core?

When I change tires and there is existing (good) sealant, I use a child's medicine syringe to pull it out of the tire after unseating one bead. I put it in a small container or move it right to the next wheel.

[echappist]

thanks echap pal for the tip. But what about all the sealant already in there, wouldn't it be a mess? Just to be clear, I was able to get the bead hooked earlier without the sealant. It was after removing the valve core and injecting sealant, that I ran into issue.

yes, it's a mess; drain it out beforehand. One reason i don't like tubeless

and i've experienced the exact same thing: being able to seat beforehand without doing anything special, and then not being able to seat the thing afterwards. Try a little bit of soapy water on the beads to reduce friction.

[Cat3roadracer]

There is also a "finish" on the inside of the Pacenti rims. I have found that certain tubeless tapes will not stick at all. If a touch of a spoke hole is exposed all bets are off. This drove me crazy until I found a tape wide enough and sticky enough to seal effectively. I don't have the name of the tape now, but will post it later.

[CSKeller]

When initially seating tubeless tires, I run a mixture of dish soap and wash (50/50) around the beads just like the auto tire people do.

This seems to aid in getting the bead seated and sealed. I pump them up to 100-120 psi and let them set a day. The tire stays sealed when I pull the core and throw in Orange Seal.

This is what I have been doing for my Campy Shamals Two-Way Fit from 2009.

[p nut]

When initially seating tubeless tires, I run a mixture of dish soap and wash (50/50) around the beads just like the auto tire people do...

I keep a spray bottle with soapy water around, which does the job. It's not a 50/50 mix (that would be too much). Just a bit of dish soap with water.

[echappist]

I keep a spray bottle with soapy water around, which does the job. It's not a 50/50 mix (that would be too much). Just a bit of dish soap with water.

I actually carry a squirt bottle of the stuff (more like 10:90 soap:water) along with spare tires. Makes tire mounting so much easier

[mcteague]

Every time I think about tubeless, I read threads like this, and the urge goes away. :p

Tim

[bigbill]

I've got a Schwalbe air blaster, I pump it up to 130# and so far have been able to seat any tire. Seat it, let it sit for a while, deflate, remove the valve core, inject the sealant, work your way back out. Spin the wheels or if possible, just ride around for a while.

[ontarget]

Thanks for the tips, everyone! I'll report back after I have a chance to add sealant and see what happens.

Thanks again!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[nalax]

I've got a Schwalbe air blaster, I pump it up to 130# and so far have been able to seat any tire. Seat it, let it sit for a while, deflate, remove the valve core, inject the sealant, work your way back out. Spin the wheels or if possible, just ride around for a while.

+1 on the Schwalbe Tire Booster

[weisan]

Just want to come back and update this thread.

First and foremost, I would like to offer an apology to tubeless pal.

I have to confess my initial impression of tubeless was not very positive due to a couple of minor setbacks. Looking back, alot of it had to do with operator's error. There's a learning curve to this thing, not a huge one but definitely requires a bit of reading up and experimenting on my own. That's why it helps to have someone show me how and I was lucky enough to have the best of the best teach me the rope but I was admittedly a slow learner and gave up far too easily.
So, I decided to give tubeless another chance this week and boy this time around everything went so smoothly. I mean, basically I got everything from taping the rim to mounting the tire to seating the tire to removing valve stem to injecting sealant to re-installing valve stem to inflating the tire all done in 15 minutes or less. I know what some of you might say, because I was thinking of the same thing myself before - 15 minutes?! I can just put in a tube and inflate all in 30 seconds! Maybe not 30s, a couple of minutes.

Well... I am not gonna try and convince anyone to switch over to tubeless. that's a personal choice. But I can tell you now, I am happy to be offered both options. I still have a whole bunch of wheelset that are not tubeless ready, I am not gonna throw them out overnight. I am gonna continue to use them. I have been happy with them in the past so it's not a problem to begin with.

Equipment:
Pacenti SL23 wheelsets
Schwalbe Pro One 25mm tubeless ready tires

The cheapo $40 pancake compressor from Harbor freight was able to seat the tire just fine. I am not sure if it's up to the task for the bigger volume tubeless tires like wtb horizon 650bx47mm but we shall see.

Anyway...i know I am behind the curve and that's fine.

[weisan]

Just successfully installed another tubeless on a HED Belgium rim. The tire is Panaracer Gravel King 28 slick.

Getting better at it, this time the whole process took 5 minutes.

[simplemind]

I'll chime in again as I have in the past on a couple of points. One, as said before, if this is a new tire, put a tube in and inflate for one or two days. It just makes everything easier.

Two, clip off any molding gas nibs or flashing that happens to remain on the tire bead (Schwalbe is bad about that). You want the rubber bead as smooth as possible where it contacts the rim.

Tubeless is really pretty easy once you go thru the learning process and so much better in many ways.

[weisan]

Thanks for chiming in simple pal, I am still waiting for your return to Austin so we can go gravel riding.

Well...a bit of a setback. Got up this morning to two of the three tubeless wheels deflated, one completely and the other probably about 60%. Now I have to investigate where the leak is. Any possible explanations?

[oldpotatoe]

Thanks for chiming in simple pal, I am still waiting for your return to Austin so we can go gravel riding.

Well...a bit of a setback. Got up this morning to two of the three tubeless wheels deflated, one completely and the other probably about 60%. Now I have to investigate where the leak is. Any possible explanations?

Missing a tube?...:).

Too bad -pal-blocks me, a little humor in these pretty un humorous times..:eek:

[nalax]

Thanks for chiming in simple pal, I am still waiting for your return to Austin so we can go gravel riding.

Well...a bit of a setback. Got up this morning to two of the three tubeless wheels deflated, one completely and the other probably about 60%. Now I have to investigate where the leak is. Any possible explanations?

Did you shake the tire/wheel to circulate the sealant after installation? After putting on a tubeless and shaking it, I sit the wheel flat on a bucket so the sealant has time to coat the sidewalls. Also flip it to coat the other side. The bead and sidewall are usually the paths of least resistance for the air to leak.

[weisan]

Did you shake the tire/wheel to circulate the sealant after installation? After putting on a tubeless and shaking it, I sit the wheel flat on a bucket so the sealant has time to coat the sidewalls. Also flip it to coat the other side. The bead and sidewall are usually the paths of least resistance for the air to leak.

What I did was put it on the trueing stand and spin it for a while. Is that the same thing or no?

[bigbill]

Inflate and go ride them for a while. If it happens again, add a little more sealant. I have a set of Boyd Altamonts with Maxxis ReFuse 32's. Identical rims and in theory, identical tires. Same tape, stems, and amount of sealant in each. One sealed up and stayed that way, only added air once a week, and the other required more sealant before it would finally stay inflated overnight.

[simplemind]

Well...a bit of a setback. Got up this morning to two of the three tubeless wheels deflated, one completely and the other probably about 60%. Now I have to investigate where the leak is. Any possible explanations?

All I can say is 1)did you do the bead sanitizing routine, ie clipping off any perturbation on the bead surfaces? 2) check that there is no leakage at the valve connection to the rim. Sometimes they don't fit the hole and channel very well. You may have to trim the rubber a bit to insure good contact.

You could always try immersing in water to see if you can locate the bugger.

Inflate and go ride them for a while.

I think this is the best way to get subtle leaks to seal IF it's the leak is at the bead/rim interface!

[nalax]

What I did was put it on the trueing stand and spin it for a while. Is that the same thing or no?



Spinning on a truing stand would tend to keep the sealant in one spot until it came to rest. Going on a ride is good if it’s erratic like an mtb ride but not steady like a TT. The sealant needs to be distributed all around the inside of the tire and rim interface. No tubes has helpful videos on their site re: shaking


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[weisan]

Thanks for the tips, will try them and report back.

[johnniecakes]

Every time I think about tubeless, I read threads like this, and the urge goes away. :p

Tim

I am with you, Ran tubeless for 2 years and saw no benefit, once I did cut a sidewall that sprayed sealant all over the rear of my bike. Net result was a lot of clean up and a new very expensive tire.

[weisan]

It worked!

Thank you!

Shaking and Rollin ' making sure even coverage of sealant inside and getting it into every nook and cranny is what gets it fixed. All good now.

Every time I think about tubeless, I read threads like this, and the urge goes away. :p

Tim

Tim pal, I used to think this way so I understand your concerns.
It's ok.

In my case, I can honestly say it's more operators error than anything else. As I live longer, I tend to want to blame someone else less because I realize so much of it is my own doing and I am responsible. I cringe everytime someone posted a thread accusing a company or a framebuilder or another forum pal of something. Sometimes it's legitimate but sometimes it's not. I just wish we can man up and admit it when it's our fault and take responsibility for our own action.