A Second Bike: Titanium

[metalheart]

I never thought I would make a post such as this, but a second bike is in my future.

After resuming riding in 2010 I bought a used Mercx that was too big for me. I could not find a carbon frame I liked, did not want to deal with a steel paint job and decided on a Ti bike and planned to have that be my one and only last bike :).

I did due diligence and selected a builder to make a bike I have been happy with, but stuff happens and I now realize that without a backup/second bike, I risk being off the road for potentially longer periods of time. Currently, I can wait a few months for a bike, but I need a second/backup relatively soon. I prefer a Di2 internal routing compatible frame, something I do not have to retrofit, but if I found a Ottrott or something similar I could deal with it.

I ride rough roads in a semi-hilly area, about 120-180 miles and 4000-12000’ climbing per week, depending. I have shorter legs and a longer torso. My current bike has a 50cm seat tube and about a 54cm effective top tube and my current seat height is about 73.5cm. I am a 190 pounder.

Ideally, I could find a used Di2 ready Moots or similar that would fit my geometry needs. If I cannot find something used soon, then the choice is another custom build from someone that has a modest lead time. Contenders are DeSalvo, Caletti, maybe Potts if lead time is not too long. Ideally, a Crisp would be at the top of the list since I have an Italy trip planned, but I think his lead time is too long. I have sent a couple emails to him without response.

A No22 Great Divide or one of the Moots in stock sizes might work. I know that Lynsky and Litespeed make great bikes, but they are just not for me, so those are not on my list just because.

So, the hunt begins for the second bike I thought I would never need.

[ERK55]

Well, the lack of any response from Crisp isn’t very promising.
You can’t lose with Moots or No22, if they fit.
And, you’ll have the frame in a few weeks.

[cadence90]

If you are looking to keep your list relatively local to you, then your Potts, De Salvo, Caletti short-list is excellent. Bill Holland is good too, but way down in SD from you. Does Steve Rex have any relationships with ti builders?

If you are OK looking further afield (as your Moots/No. 22 suggest, but maybe you are looking only for local-ish dealers in those cases?) then the list gets so much larger of course, but in any case I don't see any reason to pursue someone as far away as Crisp.
.

[72gmc]

No 22 and Hampsten would be my list. In reverse order (Hampsten first).

[sooshi]

I just took delivery of a Potts MTB and couldn't be happier. The whole process dealing with Steve was great and his lead time is only 8-12 weeks. Would highly suggest looking to him for your build.

[donevwil]

You should talk with Jeremy Sycip, total under the radar stellar builder who offers Ti.

Other than that, I agree with rec's so far. Both De Salvo & Caletti are good peeps and builders. I do suggest you SERIOUSLY consider a Horizon flight to SEA and visit Hampsten and 333Fab.

I just took delivery of a Potts MTB and couldn't be happier. The whole process dealing with Steve was great and his lead time is only 8-12 weeks. Would highly suggest looking to him for your build.

Not to question your experience, but I've never heard of a recent Potts delivered in under 6 months with most in the 12-18 month timeframe. How did you manage to have yours done so quickly?

[cadence90]

You should talk with Jeremy Sycip, total under the radar stellar builder who offers Ti.
He does, building them himself? Interesting if so.

Jim Kish used to build the Sycip ti frames (fairly rare even back then, I think, and mainly mtb by far) but I don't know if that is still the case or not, what with the various moves, etc.
.

[sooshi]

It was closer to the 12 weeks but definitely done in that time frame. When I called him to chat about ordering a bike he informed me his lead times were 8-12 weeks which I couldn't believe myself. Don't know if it has anything to do with his recent move to Etna which he appears to be in a bigger shop. I also know his son Daniel is helping him out with the mitering and other areas throughout the process but Steve is welding the frames. Don't know the exact reason as to the short lead time, maybe I slipped in through the cracks or took someone's spot that bailed, but whatever the case, I'm happy to get my Potts in just a couple of months!! He's also making his own posts which I sprung for.

[Duende]

FYi.. I think Above Category in Sausalito has Mosaics available to test drive. Not that far a drive from Sac.

Many great Ti builders out there. At the end of the day for me, it came down to personal aesthetics and build material specs.

Good luck!

[soulspinner]

Desalvo

[Mikej]

Eriksen -?

[weisan]

. .
I ride rough roads in a semi-hilly area, about 120-180 miles and 4000-12000’ climbing per week, depending. I have shorter legs and a longer torso. My current bike has a 50cm seat tube and about a 54cm effective top tube and my current seat height is about 73.5cm. I am a 190 pounder.

Your dimensions are not that far off. You will be surprised, there are good used carbon bikes out there that might fit you. If you don't object, women specific bikes. The material is secondary.

[AngryScientist]

couple points:

1) with your dimensions - you can definitely find something stock or used if you look around. there are many different stock geometries and i am certain that you can locate something to meet your geometry needs, if that's the route you choose.

2) i wholeheartedly agree that someone who enjoys riding a decent chunk of miles/week as you do should have a backup bike, it would suck to be off the road for any length of time due to mechanical issues. i have so little free time these days and so many bikes - if the bike i had planned to ride one day even has a flat tire, i grab a whole different bike and hit the road.

3) if i needed a custom titanium bicycle right now, my choice would be very easy, i wouldnt even think about it: Spectrum. if tom kellogg designs your titanium bicycle - you are gauranteed a winner. i am not aware of their lead time, but i have never heard of any negative stories about Spectrum.

4) Seven has a bunch of models and could likely get you something quick and very good.

5) the other "guy" for titanium in my mind is carl strong.

those are just my thoughts off the top of my head. my list is not meant to cast shadows on any of the other excellent builders or options. there are a ton of good choices for bikes right now, both new, custom, stock used.

[RedRider]

Mosaic in Boulder, CO. We just delivered a GT-1 (gravel) full custom with DI2 and internal brake lines. The given lead time was 5 weeks and in was in our shop in 4 and a half. In our opinion, they are now building some of the highest quality and aesthetically appealing custom titanium frames available. Some of the previous builders mentioned should also be considered.

[yashcha]

I can highly recommend Max at 333fab. Wait time is around 12 weeks.

Also, Honey bikes has some ti bikes that can be ready for pick up within a week or two. Last time I checked, the ti all roads was aroud 2800 for frame and fork.

[veloduffer]

I'd suggest a Seven Evergreen (https://www.sevencycles.com/bikes/bike-detail.php?model=evergreen-sl) - look at the geometry and there should be something that fits. Can use it road and gravel.

I just got one and it's a blast to ride.

https://www.sevencycles.com/bikes/bike-detail.php?model=evergreen-sl

[Hilltopperny]

As an owner of a moots, no22 and lynskey I'd say you really can't go wrong with any of them. Your cheapest option would be the lynskey though. I wouldn't completely count them out of the equation.

I have a helix sport disc which in a size medium has a 50 cm seat tube and 54.1 cm top tube and came with routing for di2. It is an excellent bike and climbs like a much lighter one as well.

The great divide in size 54 is a 54.5 cm top tube if I'm not mistaken and the fit and finish is amazing. I bought a Drifter and it's amazing. You cannot go wrong with them and they were great to work with.

Moots makes a fine bike as well. I have a Rsl on the way and have owned an older vamoots and a routt. Always a smooth and satisfying ride that just feels right. Resale is better than most high end bikes if that is a concern. A bit pricier than the great divide or lynskey, but really well put together.

As I've stated you really can't go wrong with any of them. Go with the one that speaks to you.

[metalheart]

These are all helpful observations and suggestions. About a few of the specifics:

1) If it comes to a custom, then DelSalvo, Caletti, Potts, and maybe Hampco/333Fab are the short list. My understanding is that Max at 333 does the titanium for Hampco, so it seems going direct to him would be best? Lead time would probably make the difference, but I may be able to wait depending....

2) Spectrum ... have to make a call and talk to him, same with Carl Strong. I prefer to have a direct face-to-face with a builder, but I can get past that.

3) If it is a ready made bike then No22 or Moots have options that might work, just need to talk to them or one of their dealers, which I plan to do today.

[spinarelli]

Last I heard Eriksen was 8 weeks. I can not recommend Eriksen/Bingham enough. I would def consider them, or a second hand one.

[hampco]

1) If it comes to a custom, then DelSalvo, Caletti, Potts, and maybe Hampco/333Fab are the short list. My understanding is that Max at 333 does the titanium for Hampco, so it seems going direct to him would be best? Lead time would probably make the difference, but I may be able to wait depending....


Max builds for 333fab and Davidson, Bingham/Eriksen build for Hampsten. Confusing, I know...

[donevwil]

He does, building them himself? Interesting if so.

Jim Kish used to build the Sycip ti frames (fairly rare even back then, I think, and mainly mtb by far) but I don't know if that is still the case or not, what with the various moves, etc.
.

I actually don't know if he builds them himself. Two local builders told me he does, but I've never asked him myself. I assumed outsourcing was likely, hence wrote "offers".

It was closer to the 12 weeks but definitely done in that time frame. When I called him to chat about ordering a bike he informed me his lead times were 8-12 weeks which I couldn't believe myself. Don't know if it has anything to do with his recent move to Etna which he appears to be in a bigger shop. I also know his son Daniel is helping him out with the mitering and other areas throughout the process but Steve is welding the frames. Don't know the exact reason as to the short lead time, maybe I slipped in through the cracks or took someone's spot that bailed, but whatever the case, I'm happy to get my Potts in just a couple of months!! He's also making his own posts which I sprung for.

You certainly did something right, nice bike. Steve does like to work in batches so you may have benefitted from similar frames being built that were ahead in the queue. It certainly appears he's significantly reduced his wait, mine was ~10 months in 2013.

[happycampyer]

Max builds for 333fab and Davidson, Bingham/Eriksen build for Hampsten. Confusing, I know...
Hi Steve,

In another thread not long ago I attempted to explain the lineage as I understand it—it would be nice to get your feedback.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2345454&postcount=31

[colker]

I would go w/ Spectrum for the fit session w/ Tom Kellog and then his bikes are extremely well made.
Kellog is known for finding the perfect fit in ways you would never imagine.

[PaMtbRider]

I talked to Carl Strong sometime around Christmas and his wait was around 7 months. I think that is also a pretty typical wait time for Tom Kellogg as well, although I haven't talked to him recently.

To me the reason to go with Spectrum would be if you can visit Tom at the barn for a fitting. He also paints a lot of his Ti bikes if you like that finish option.

Some of the builders will use butted Ti tubing, others don't. There are a lot of opinions from well respected builders about that very subject.

There are a lot of good choices in Ti builders right now. Some relatively new to the material and others who have been at it a long time. For a relatively quick turn around I would go with either Bingham/Eriksen or No.22. I talked with both at the Philly bike expo and thought they both represented their brand well.

[choke]

For a 'normal' road style someone who hasn't been mentioned would be at the top of my list....Doriano De Rosa (Bixxis).

[ltwtsculler91]

These are all helpful observations and suggestions. About a few of the specifics:

3) If it is a ready made bike then No22 or Moots have options that might work, just need to talk to them or one of their dealers, which I plan to do today.

Don't rule out No22 for custom. Give them a call, they guys are all fantastic and everyone in the workshop has some serious experience building top shelf Ti frames.

I have a full custom Reactor, and the bike is just incredible

[Dave Ferris]

It was closer to the 12 weeks but definitely done in that time frame. When I called him to chat about ordering a bike he informed me his lead times were 8-12 weeks which I couldn't believe myself. Don't know if it has anything to do with his recent move to Etna which he appears to be in a bigger shop. I also know his son Daniel is helping him out with the mitering and other areas throughout the process but Steve is welding the frames. Don't know the exact reason as to the short lead time, maybe I slipped in through the cracks or took someone's spot that bailed, but whatever the case, I'm happy to get my Potts in just a couple of months!! He's also making his own posts which I sprung for.


You certainly did something right, nice bike. Steve does like to work in batches so you may have benefitted from similar frames being built that were ahead in the queue. It certainly appears he's significantly reduced his wait, mine was ~10 months in 2013.


I was at 11 months on my 29er - Oct. '13 - Sept.'14 - as well. To be fair I believe he was under the stress with selling his home in Point Reyes and moving to Petaluma. Now in his new spot in Etna, and with the help of Daniel , it appears everything is running quicker and smoother.

I recently inquired into a gravel bike and Steve said 8-10 weeks. Although in my quest to stay off the LA roads, I'm more inclined to go with a Type II rigid 27.5 MTB. There's simply a lack of gravel/dirt roads in LA where I feel I could put a dropped bar bike to good use.

For road or all road, if I moved out of LA to Ventura or somewhere like that, I like the Eriksen, Kish or Strong aesthetic .

I'm sure Holland would be fantastic too but for whatever reason the Exogrid is not visually appealing to me.

[Kirk007]

I'll second and third some earlier posts, all based on personal experience:

If you want it in the next couple months probably rule out Tom Kellogg, but if you have any questions regarding your fit, and can wait longer and can go to the barn for a fitting, then Tom is a great choice.

Other shorter time frame options, both of whom I have experience with are Hampsten and 333Fab.

Steve H. is great to work with, his bikes always look proper and the welding by Brad Bingham has been widely recognized by his peers at NAHBS as one of the very best of the best. My understanding is that Brad, like Kent Ericksen works exclusively with straight gauge tubing.

Max (333Fab) also makes beautiful bikes. Max welded Tom's Spectrums when at Seven, welded for Steve and Bill Davidson told me last week that Max is the best ti welder he's ever worked with. Max gives you the option of butted or straight gauge tubing.

An under the radar choice that I haven't seen mentioned in DeSalvo in Ashland Oregon. Lostsa experience, UBI instructor, one of the Speedvagen team I believe.

[cmg]

here's a list of builders in your area. http://yojimg.net/bike/sf_framebuilders/

[longlist]

i was looking at a no22 and read reviews on facebook. not sure how many are true. but someone was really unhappy with her custom bike they made her.

[colker]

I would get a steel bike if i was in your situation. Just because i prefer steel to every other material as a frame tube.

[jambee]

My vote goes to seven. You'll get the bike quickly, it will be perfect, and it won't break the bank.

I ride my Seven since 2013. Have a hard time justifying anything else since. It sucks to have such a great bike that means you're off the market.