OT: Finding Meaning in Life and Work, then, Happiness?

[giverdada]

Just read this article (https://qz.com/1260478/this-college-is-moving-beyond-what-color-is-your-parachute-and-designing-for-students-to-find-purposeful-work/) and am pretty fascinated by it. This quote, in particular, resonates quite a lot with me. I'll be working through the concept of 'selling out' with students today, and the culture of 'likes', and, in my nature of work, this all tends toward the founding questions of what to do with/in one's life.

“If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s.”


https://qz.com/1260478/this-college-is-moving-beyond-what-color-is-your-parachute-and-designing-for-students-to-find-purposeful-work/

Anyway, just thought it was a pretty interesting and cool focus for post-secondary and life in general, as well as a new way of looking at passion and profession, as things that are discovered within work rather than known and then pursued as pre-set career fields. I didn't know I had a passion for teaching until I got into it, and now I'd rather do the teaching of it than the 'it' of what I teach..usually... What's your passion?

[Tickdoc]

Good article. My dad always summed it up this way....find something you love to do where your work is your play. Then you’re not working, you are playing.

[AngryScientist]

Good article. My dad always summed it up this way....find something you love to do where your work is your play. Then you’re not working, you are playing.

of course this is good advice, if you can pull it off - but i would venture to say that less than 5% of the population can. how many people can truly take something they "love to do" and turn it into a lucrative career? certainly there are a handful of people who do, no question - but it's just not possible for the bulk majority of the working class.

that college appears to be over $68k/year - the reality is that while everyone want to get a job doing something they love to do and are passionate about - to pay off that kind of money for an education - the real world may not provide the salary necessary in the field you desire.

this is a topic i've thought about quite a bit. it seems like a lot of young people these days think that they deserve to make good money for doing something fun - when there is sometimes zero value added by their pursuits.

i'm all for a good work/life balance and have spent some time on the very wrong end of that equation - but i think at the end of the day for most people it does need to be a balance - as in - you've got to put in the work.

as my dad used to say "they dont call it going to fun every day".

[GregL]

this is a topic i've thought about quite a bit. it seems like a lot of young people these days think that they deserve to make good money for doing something fun - when there is sometimes zero value added by their pursuits.
Parents need to teach this to their children. We had many conversations with our daughter regarding college education and careers. We talked about return on investment for the education and choosing a career path that provides for the life you want to lead. She chose a college with similar costs to Bates, but with a very large academic scholarship that makes the education cost much more affordable. Similarly, her planned career track will hopefully provide her with satisfaction and happiness while at the same time paying the bills. She wants to be on he own right after college, not living at home and definitely not subsidized by her parents.

Greg

[giverdada]

oh i get that part. of course, it's not called going to fun every day; it's work. for sure. but the part of the article that resonated with me was the part about finding passion, rather than having it pre-assigned and then trying to make money from the doing of it.

i used to write poetry and paint and print photographs. sometimes i still do these things. they used to be my 'passion'. i even insisted that they were my passion rather than my 'hobby', as i found hobby to be offensively frivolous to refer to what i woke up thinking about and went to bed dreaming about. this is no longer. i teach. i do it for a living. it's an exorbitantly challenging thing to do. i am paid very well and have benefits (finally) that help me raise my family very well. but i also effin love it. i love what i do. i love watching learning happen. i love the challenge of convincing children that they are the future, that they have to own up to themselves and that future, and make good things happen. i love learning cool new stuff so that i can show it to 'the kids' the next day. it's still work. but i love work. and that doesn't make it frivolous. and it is my passion, but i had to find that out, by working in it. anyway, that's what i got from the article - it's not about a question of work-life balance/lucrative vs. fulfilling work path; it's about the fact that it's okay to find passion, and that finding passion within work is important, and has more to do with happiness than finding money related to one's passion.

[giverdada]

i also find it tricky to not be cynical when teaching the children about what they can get paid good money to do, when it has no value in the world. parents need to teach their kids all kinds of things, but they may be up against a pretty adversarial social context that is teaching their kids the exact opposite. things like values and morals and what it means to be successful or a good human.

[Black Dog]

i also find it tricky to not be cynical when teaching the children about what they can get paid good money to do, when it has no value in the world. parents need to teach their kids all kinds of things, but they may be up against a pretty adversarial social context that is teaching their kids the exact opposite. things like values and morals and what it means to be successful or a good human.

Good points. I struggle to teach this to my students and my own kids. Making money for the sake of making money is not a path to fulfilment. Adding value to the world while earning a living is a better option. There will always be those that seek what they can get and those the seek what they can give. When there is too much of one and not enough of the other we are in trouble.

[Mzilliox]

this ideal is nice, but we have to back it with policy that supports a happy population. one cannot be truly happy in a job when they have to rely on that job to provide their family health care. it creates an unhealthy dependency on the job, that doesn't need to be there. if you removed heathcare from the which job you have equation and just gave everyone health care as a right, they could indeed pursue jobs they love with passion because they are what they want to be doing. not because they can't afford to do anything else. too many people get stuck because of logistics. Imagine being able to start that business you always wanted to start without having to worry about losing health care for your kids... imagine if your taxes actually gave you something real and empowering in return. imagine then vote

[Fishbike]

So much of finding your role in the workplace is basis economics -- somebody has to be willing to part with money in exchange for your labor. The act of working -- hopefully doing something that is tolerable or even rewarding most of the time -- is only possible when you provide value to someone else. Folks, including young people, focus on what they want to do, which is fine. But at the end of the day, you have to monetize that bliss.

[icepick_trotsky]

The "do what you love, love what you do" mantra comes from a place of privilege. Most people in most places do not necessarily have the option to professionally pursue their passion, and there are a lot of jobs in society that no one is particularly passionate about that still need doing.

Telling everyone to do what they love to find meaning devalues work and workers.

[Drmojo]

The "do what you love, love what you do" mantra comes from a place of privilege. Most people in most places do not necessarily have the option to professionally pursue their passion, and there are a lot of jobs in society that no one is particularly passionate about that still need doing.

Telling everyone to do what they love to find meaning devalues work and workers.

To each according to their needs, from each according to their abilities.

What is to be done?

You know these quotes....

[Pastashop]

I want myself and my children to be functional first, useful second, and happy later. To say it more precisely, I view happiness as a byproduct of time spent in ways that are beneficial to fellow humans, without abrogating the responsibility to take proper care of oneself (assuming that it’s just another human being, no more no less).

God bless those who know what they want in life. (Let them have a realistic uncle / aunt also, to whom they’re more likely to listen than their parent!) Woe is he/she/they that don’t know what they want to do or achieve, but repeat that they “want to be happy”. Be useful first.

[Blown Reek]

I define success as not working, and I live like a king.

No job, no job concerns. Simple.

[Tickdoc]

of course this is good advice, if you can pull it off - but i would venture to say that less than 5% of the population can. how many people can truly take something they "love to do" and turn it into a lucrative career? certainly there are a handful of people who do, no question - but it's just not possible for the bulk majority of the working class.

that college appears to be over $68k/year - the reality is that while everyone want to get a job doing something they love to do and are passionate about - to pay off that kind of money for an education - the real world may not provide the salary necessary in the field you desire.

this is a topic i've thought about quite a bit. it seems like a lot of young people these days think that they deserve to make good money for doing something fun - when there is sometimes zero value added by their pursuits.

i'm all for a good work/life balance and have spent some time on the very wrong end of that equation - but i think at the end of the day for most people it does need to be a balance - as in - you've got to put in the work.

as my dad used to say "they dont call it going to fun every day".


Mine used to also say, “ we are all smart and dumb at different things”.

College is a great place to find yourself and your passions, your limitations, and your strengths. It does not guarantee a lucrative career, or even a career at all.

Entitlement is horrible these days. You still have to work for your work to work.

I still believe that finding the joy as you take that path is key. The path never stops but the joy can.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I've found Cal Newport's book about finding passion in your work enlightening.

http://calnewport.com/books/so-good/

[jlwdm]

In the past I have preached about doing something you really enjoy for your career, but it is much more difficult in practice.

Recently I asked school officials and staff if more kids today know what they want to do career wise when they get out of high school compared to many years ago when I graduated from high school. The answer was that nothing has changed. I went through a number of different majors in college and have had a few different careers. For most people you have to try a few different things to find something you want to do. You just need to experience life.

I love math and started college as a math, physics and chemistry major with no idea what I wanted to do. It seemed like everyone else in my classes knew exactly what they wanted to do in future - primarily doctors and dentists. Every grade was potentially the end of the world for these students.

I graduated from high school and went to work doing golf course maintenance. It was fun and I got to be outside, but it was never going to be a career for me (Although now there are many good golf course career opportunities). After a year plus at the golf course and a year not doing much of anything I ended up in law school. Again without a plan.

Then it was commercial real estate, then back to law and then residential real estate. I moved to other states four times. I am a believer that change is good and trying different things creates personal growth.

It is not easy to find one thing you want to do for your life. Pretty much all work is work a lot of the time but it helps if it is something you generally enjoy doing.

My real estate career has had a large focus on golf communities which ties into my background playing golf and working at the golf course - even though I don't golf much anymore.

I enjoy what I do and have a great work partner, but that does not mean there are not plenty of days that it is a pain in the neck. It is clear that I do enjoy my career as I am old enough to retire and I still work full time.

Financial rewards let you and your family enjoy the things that are important to you.

Jeff

[makoti]

What I do to pay the bills I have does not define me. I am not "an MRI Tech", no more than I was "a Flight Attendant". These were things I did. I was lucky. I didn't hate either of these choices, but once I was done flying, I was done with it. When I leave the medical field, I won't look back.
These are/were things I did to allow me to do the things I really wanted to. A trade, if you will. Time now for time later.

[saf-t]

The "do what you love, love what you do" mantra comes from a place of privilege. Most people in most places do not necessarily have the option to professionally pursue their passion, and there are a lot of jobs in society that no one is particularly passionate about that still need doing.

Telling everyone to do what they love to find meaning devalues work and workers.

I don't see any devaluation here. Nor do I see an issue with telling people to try to do what they love.

[HenryA]

I think everyone would be better off if we taught young people that serving others is a good way to live and work. If they serve well, the money will come. And maybe some satisfaction. Just making oneself happy doing what ever one wants isn’t an answer that will provide satisfaction. Happiness in self interest probably is not a long lived state of affairs.

[giverdada]

I don't see any devaluation here. Nor do I see an issue with telling people to try to do what they love.

Agreed. It's funny how many of these posts are bent on 'what's wrong with the youth' these days, and 'I find value in a significant degree in suffering therefore if no one is suffering as much as I am, they aren't doing something of value...' Sounds like my mom. She believes, very truly, that worth is closely related to the amount of suffering, and the tangible product benefit that results. Thus, she does not understand, in any capacity, riding bikes or running or racing unless it is for fitness/health-related benefits. e.g. My overweight brother-in-law carves out some time in his schedule to go for a ride; my mom thinks that is good and a worthy thing to do so that he can get on the path to health and be there for his family. However, my lady or I fit in a ride on the way to or from a family gathering and my mom finds it offensive that we would focus any minutes of the day on our own selves, when we're in perfectly fine health as it is, and our family needs us... ***? Anyway, suffer all you want, I guess, but it doesn't necessarily equate to worth or value just because it's something other than what you would choose to do for joy.

I also remember reading about one of the causes of Rome's fall being that its military became increasingly populated by mercenaries. And I think throughout history that folks who are paid to fight for their 'leaders' often lose against people who fight for their countries out of love for country. Or something like that. I think it also happens in citizenship, microloans, etc. - when someone is doing something with their heart, and the heart being a euphemism for joy or hope or love of others, they will do it honorably, well, and completely. I think there's a Toyota business model from the 90s that has something to do with this thought, something about treating employees like valued family members. I guess at the extreme end, it'd be like my Filipina grandmother guilt-tripping me into doing something out of love for her. But then, as we all know, I'd end up doing it, loving it, and living more richly in a better world because of it. Grandmothers...

Anyway, I think suffering is great. I often tell my students: If it ain't hard, it probably ain't worth doin'. And: Everything is hard if you're doing it right. Of course, these are simplistic and extreme, but the point is that the work is the point. Doing things that are already easy may indicate that it's a cop-out. Maybe not. I just think that there's a lot to be said for having a genuine passion for some core aspect of the work that we do, and it's a cool thing to pursue - a willingness to be passionate.

I used to work as a landscaper in Virginia. Hot as hell, ozone red alert days every day, 15 hour days of digging holes and planting pollen-laden hydrangia (sp) shrubs or whatever. Six bucks an hour. It was a whole lot of work. A whole lot of suffering. I was saving for a Specialized S-Works mountain bike. That vision got me through the whole summer of being 16. The work was hard hard hard. And the reward was so very sweet. And I got satisfaction from doing such suffering, every day, pre-dawn to nighttime. A couple summers later, I crashed that mountain bike and separated my A/C joint for the first time. Had to stop digging holes for the company, so they rehired me as a graphic designer and promotional photographer. 10 hour days. In air-conditioning. Taking pictures, which I loved, then making a promotional client-interest portfolio in Photoshop, which I loved. Not suffering. Pure passion. Any less 'worth it' or valuable? Nah.

[rccardr]

BUT: the same amount of effort.

I've always told my daughter that it doesn't matter how hard she works, what matters is how much effort she puts into anything she does.

Focus, genuine interest, an understanding of value given and value received, an appreciation for doing something as well as it can be done, delving into the culture of your workplace and coworkers- all takes effort.

I never graduated from college, yet became a highly placed executive in a very technical business, while simultaneously keeping at least one side business running & profitable and being a good dad. Took a lot of effort.

[Johnnysmooth]

"Anyway, I think suffering is great. I often tell my students: If it ain't hard, it probably ain't worth doin'. And: Everything is hard if you're doing it right. "

This is but a part of the equation. What I would add to it is persistence, tenacity and a continuing willingness to learn.

In my own experience, those three combined with a desire to leave this world a little better (maybe a lot better) than I found it have carried me through an interesting and at times challenging career path.

Went to college (BSc engineering), got a job and found I hated engineering. Went to grad school for physical oceanography, loved it but couldn't support a family on it. Pursued all sorts of different careers - nearly every time taking something I have learned in previous experiences and building upon it.

Now have my own company, over a decade old, doing research on healthcare IT adoption and use to improve care delivery. Having hired a number of millennials, have faith in future for like myself, many just want to do some good - very mission focused generation (though can be a PIA w their desire for continual accolades).

What I tell them all and the grad students we take in on internships is: Never, ever stop pushing yourself to learn new, hard things as the minute you stop is the minute you begin to lose value. It is here where I see so many good people's careers fail.

[Hilltopperny]

of course this is good advice, if you can pull it off - but i would venture to say that less than 5% of the population can. how many people can truly take something they "love to do" and turn it into a lucrative career? certainly there are a handful of people who do, no question - but it's just not possible for the bulk majority of the working class.

that college appears to be over $68k/year - the reality is that while everyone want to get a job doing something they love to do and are passionate about - to pay off that kind of money for an education - the real world may not provide the salary necessary in the field you desire.

this is a topic i've thought about quite a bit. it seems like a lot of young people these days think that they deserve to make good money for doing something fun - when there is sometimes zero value added by their pursuits.

i'm all for a good work/life balance and have spent some time on the very wrong end of that equation - but i think at the end of the day for most people it does need to be a balance - as in - you've got to put in the work.

as my dad used to say "they dont call it going to fun every day".Well put Nick. I think it's essential to put in the hard work and time with something that you may not be passionate about in order to figure out the who, what, where, when, why and how of what you are.

I have had many different jobs over the years and most of them were just to earn enough to provide for my family. I was pretty good at a few of them, but they certainly weren't lucrative nor fun for me.

I walked out on my last real job in October and decided to use the capital I had to start my own business. With the new addition it affords me the opportunity to work at my own pace and do something I enjoy doing.

I am fortunate enough to not be racked up with student loan debt and have always tried to live below my means. We have a very humble home with a very low mortgage and very little debt.

My wife has the her student loan debt, but does love what she does. She was fortunate to know her path very early in life, but being an art teacher in the lowest paid county in the state certainly isn't lucrative either. It does provide us with top notch insurance though.

I think it's tough to figure it all out until you are ready. It takes most of us a lot of life experience to truly appreciate what it is that we love to do. Even then it's still requires a leap of faith and financial ability to get things started.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Clean39T]

http://calnewport.com/books/deep-work/

And

http://calnewport.com/books/so-good/

Both should be essential reading..

——

In short - kill distraction so you can become a master at what you have some interest in doing, and then people will want to pay you for your work and you’ll enjoy it because you’re great at doing what you do.

[Mzilliox]

all this is well and good, but society still needs to support this rather than the alone in the woods, maker of your own destiny nonsense. The fact is luck plays the biggest role in whether or not you do what you love, or love what you do. i thinnk loving what you do is more important than doing what you love. I dont like to mix my passions with work, its turns something fun into a job. take farming, its a hobby, gardening, until you start to sell, then people need things now but the pests ate most of it, or the weather didn;t cooperate, now gardening becomes farming, and work, and therefore its less fun. fishing is the same way. fishing is rad, but working as a fishing guide is thankless work most days.

so im offering a differing view.
i think having more freedom to change jobs without fear of leaving your family out to dry in terms of health care would be a bigger freedom and better situation than just attempting to turn what you love into your job.

someone above even mentioned how they appreciate the fine heath care of the teacher job despite the poor pay considering an advanced degree. thats how saddled we are to a job of some type, rather than the job we are best suited to. massive inefficiency in the market. youd think the free market capitalist leaders of the world would see it... but we saddle for profit corporations with the nanny duty of providing healthcare (if they are morally decent).

so yeah, there is my rant on how this really works.

[Black Dog]

all this is well and good, but society still needs to support this rather than the alone in the woods, maker of your own destiny nonsense. The fact is luck plays the biggest role in whether or not you do what you love, or love what you do. i thinnk loving what you do is more important than doing what you love. I dont like to mix my passions with work, its turns something fun into a job. take farming, its a hobby, gardening, until you start to sell, then people need things now but the pests ate most of it, or the weather didn;t cooperate, now gardening becomes farming, and work, and therefore its less fun. fishing is the same way. fishing is rad, but working as a fishing guide is thankless work most days.

so im offering a differing view.
i think having more freedom to change jobs without fear of leaving your family out to dry in terms of health care would be a bigger freedom and better situation than just attempting to turn what you love into your job.

someone above even mentioned how they appreciate the fine heath care of the teacher job despite the poor pay considering an advanced degree. thats how saddled we are to a job of some type, rather than the job we are best suited to. massive inefficiency in the market. youd think the free market capitalist leaders of the world would see it... but we saddle for profit corporations with the nanny duty of providing healthcare (if they are morally decent).

so yeah, there is my rant on how this really works.

Having read this from a few posts in this thread I have to say that I really took some time to try and imagine what this must be like. Being Canadian I really have never had to consider health care in terms of my employment or unemployment. It seems rather insane. I cant imagine the stress and feeling of being help prisoner to a job that provides coverage. I would worry sick about my kids getting sick or what would happen to our family if my wife or myself were to get a serious illness without health care. Financial disaster. I really feel bad for our cousins to the south, you truly deserve better.

I do consider health benefits from employment such as Dental, and Prescription drugs. But the province I live in is moving to make the most common prescription drugs free for anyone under 25 and there is a lot of talk in Canada about universal coverage for prescription medication. For those without coverage there are funds in place to help people get the drugs that they need.