OT - Compact SUV

[bigman]

Happily need to get something for daughter who will be attending Osteopath school in Maine this late June- priorities are safety and good AWD system. Have narrowed this down to the MAzda CX-5, Kia Sportage; Tiguan or maybe CRV. Heated seats would be nice.

Not that I'm driving it but I found the VW boring and maybe a bit to large. loved both the Mazda and Kia based on short test drives.
It will be a short term lease so the warranty is not a factor. Just looking for some insight from those that have any experience with these vehicles
Thanks

[semdoug]

We bought a Mazda 3 Hatchback last year and love it. No problems at all, just routine servicing. I have driven the CX-5 as a service loaner and liked it a lot. Of the four vehicles use listed the CX-5 is the only one I would buy.

[saab2000]

I am close to pulling the trigger on a Tiguan but I like that it's a bit bigger. I drove a CX-5 and liked it but it doesn't support Apple Car Play, and that's almost a deal breaker for me. It did feel like a quality vehicle. I also drove a Honda CR-V and came close to doing one of them. Plus for the CR-V is fuel economy, which is quite impressive for the size and utility of the vehicle. I don't think I'd look at the Kia, based on a recent ride on a Kia which felt like a poorly engineered vehicle. It wasn't the Sportage, but rather the minivan.

As much as you want AWD, I recommend snow tires for a place like Maine regardless. AWD is no substitute for a set of true winter tires.

I currently live in Michigan and if I get one of these, I'll be investing in proper winter tires even though I too plan to get the AWD version.

[Ralph]

My live at home daughter drives a CRV. They don't depreciate quickly....so may lease well. It's now 5 years old....and has never been in the shop for a warranty issue. Absolute 100% reliability....except for a battery replacement. Just normal service when the maintenance minder says so.

It is kinda dull driving.....but that doesn't matter for the use I bought it for.

[Lanternrouge]

My wife used to have a 2WD CRV and really liked it. When I drove it, it drove like a car to me, which I liked. We recently looked at a Kia (different model) and it seems like the brand generally offers pretty good value. That said, you are unlikely to go wrong with a Honda.

[Ken Robb]

We have 45,000 miles on a 2014 MAZDA3 with the same 2.5L engine and 6 speed automatic. Just routine maintenance that is very reasonably priced. 30 MPG overall on regular gas. Crisp handling like a BMW.

[yinzerniner]

Agree with poster above that snow tires > AWD when it comes to vehicle control in the cold winter months. For most vehicle models you can pick up a set for less than an insurance deductible.

The CUVs you listed are all nice and safe, but it really depends on the priorities. Lowest initial price - Kia or Hyundai. Best reliability / resale value? Honda CR-V. Most fun to drive - CX-5.

All the Japanese models you listed are great for maintenance, reliability, safety, etc. VW has gotten a lot better in the past decade on these fronts (other than the whole diesel scandal) but they still have a bit of German engineering to them (ie more labor intensive to work on thus more expensive).

Since the models are all so close, and as long as your daughter's a reasonably seasoned driver the best bet would be to go with the one she's most comfortable with. I've always found engineered safety features are a distant concern when compared to ergonomics, visibility, and ease of familiarity with the vehicles' handling tendencies and corner points.

[GregL]

I have a 2014 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring AWD. It's without doubt the best winter vehicle I have ever owned. With Blizzaks on every corner, it makes short work of Syracuse winters. Great quality with one exception. It will eat rear brakes unless you keep the pads and slide pins clean and well-lubricated. I pull my pads twice a year to make sure they are moving freely and all parts are cleaned and re-greased.

Greg

[Mark McM]

I'm surprised you aren't considering one of the top selling brands in Maine - Subaru. Their AWD cars and SUVs generally receive high marks for reliability and ability to handle snowy roads. The Outback has most of the advantages of a car over a true SUV (better highway handling, better fuel mileage, etc.), while still retaining the AWD and decent ground clearance of a compact SUV.

And as noted, snow tires make a much bigger difference on snowy surfaces than AWD does - AWD may help get you going, but the snow tires will do more to help you maneuver and brake in the snow.

[bigman]

I am snow tire advocate - use them on almost all my vehicles.
Snow tires are the bomb.

[biker72]

Honda or Subaru with all wheel drive.

[benb]

The Subarus will cost less than most of those except Kias and outperform them in snow performance due to most of the CUVs having the "on/off" AWD vs the Subaru "always on". It's a fuel economy tradeoff... most of them will stay in 2WD and try to switch over to AWD when they detect you going out of control or starting to slide. Most of these cars will do better than FWD/RWD cars but if you've driven in snow a bunch with both types of AWD it's hard to get used to the non full time AWD types, and the outright limits are lower on the non-full time models too.

Most of these are just "tippy cars" without substantial extra ground clearance so you can always consider the regular car models too.

And if the snow performance is really important AWD or not don't buy a car without wiper defrosters and the other features like that. They make a difference when the going gets really bad.

If you are really going down the compact models with part-time AWD you really need to look at the Toyota RAV4 as well.

But the Forester/Outback, etc.. drive better than all but maybe the Mazda anyway due to the lower CG of the flat engine. I've driven hundreds of miles in the RAV4 and CRV in the snow and I hate them. Tippy suspension with high CG, less ground clearance despite that, and they have this way of briefly feeling like they're going out of control and then you can feel the AWD turn on. It's super annoying compared to the way Subarus just feel in control all the time. When I drive my Outback in the snow you almost never even see the traction/AWD lights coming on, it just performs like the snow isn't even there unless you start trying to exceed the cornering limits of the car, you never really feel the system working and it never really jerks you around. But if you turn it off in the snow you will realize it's doing a ton. The part-time AWD vehicles I've driven behave more like FWD/RWD vehicles where you're having lots of little "incidents" and seeing the electronics come on and bring the car back into control, only it's not just ABS it's the system turning the AWD on/off too.

Actually most of the part-time AWD models have slightly better EPA fuel economy ratings than the Subarus but my personal experience renting them has been they underperformed vs the EPA rating even worse than my Subaru does. (My Subaru definitely underperforms the rating for city). But Maine might not entail much city profile driving.

[yinzerniner]

Subarus are a nice option as mentioned above, but in my experience the big no-nos when compared to the other choices are:
-Fuel Economy as full time AWD just eats gas
-Actual price since they're so popular in the northeast/northwest that discounts are rare. Maybe midwest where OP is they fare better
-Ergonomics - this is a very personal opinion but almost every Subaru I've ever been in has been off in some way. Mirror and pillar placements, hood and fender locations, seat comfort and shape - all off for some reason or another.
-Interior fit/finish is spartan but a little lacking compared to competitors, but that might be in matching their brand identity.

And while I usually hate SUVs and CUVs the economics for purchasing a new vehicle are clearly pointed towards them since sedans and wagons with similar features are either impossible to find or priced way outside the mid-20's entry point in most cases. Or they're the WRX ........:banana:

[eak12]

Subaru Forester is the best vehicle I've had for snow performance (live in Toronto, grew up in Montreal, spend time in rural Maine most years). With snow tires, it's perfect for Maine winters. Plenty of them around in the state for a reason.


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[kppolich]

Any input on the KIA Niro? the gas milage has me thinking about it. No 4WD though, but do you really need 4WD if you aren't going to drive anyway if the weather is bad?

[rwsaunders]

I just picked up a Honda CRV EXL for my wife and it came down to the CRV and a Mazda CX5 for me. The Mazda really rides and handles well as I had rented one for a business trip, drove in a snowstorm and it was awesome....nice power, interior and finishes.

I've owned too many Hondas though and the servicing dealer is right across the river from us so that closed the deal. The CRV has a lot more trunk room and holds its value longer, but as I hold onto cars until they die, that wasn't so important. That particular dealer offers lifetime oil changes and state inspections, which equates to about $150-175/year...5 quality cases of beer/year according to my math.

Btw, no financing deals on the CRV around here as its the best seller for Honda right now. If that's an issue for you, Mazda and Subaru were offering 0%. However the EXL was $2K less that the Grand Touring version of the CX5 too and as i don't really need factory GPS, I went with the Honda.

[veloduffer]

I’ll put the plug-in for a Subaru Forester or Outback as well. Best AWD for winter conditions and adding snow tires is like wearing a belt and suspenders.

And since safety is a high priority by the OP, they are top rated by IIHS and govt.

And they’re easily price competitive with the mentioned models. Plus, in Maine, there are many dealers and shade-tree mechanics nearby that can fix a Subie (if needed). You might want to check how close is a dealer for the other makes that you’re considering.



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[wc1934]

..........I also drove a Honda CR-V and came close to doing one of them. Plus for the CR-V is fuel economy, which is quite impressive for the size and utility of the vehicle. .............

The Honda HRV is a bit smaller and fuel economy is better - and you still get the reliability of a Honda.

[Louis]

Agree on the Subie suggestion.

Impreza if a "wagon" is OK, and move up to the bigger ones if that's what she needs.

[saab2000]

The Honda HRV is a bit smaller and fuel economy is better - and you still get the reliability of a Honda.

I did a lengthy test drive and basically liked it. I am a longtime VW owner and live my German cars, even though the Tiguan sold in the US is basically made for the US market.

The Tiguan seemed very roomy and the interior materials seemed a bit nicer. But really it’s splitting hairs and the Honda is really nice too. I’d get the Touring for the upgraded sound system and more LED lights.

[Ozz]

The Honda HRV is a bit smaller and fuel economy is better - and you still get the reliability of a Honda.

We are looking at the HR-V for our son when he heads off to college (depending where he goes, if he needs a car).

+100 on the Honda reliability...I have a 2003 Pilot that just won't die...:cool:

[p nut]

From those, I would go CRV. Many friends and family with them and have yet to hear a single problem. A co-worker had a CX5 and it was good for the first 80k, then started having problems. Anecdotal, I know.

Subaru is excellent. Get an Impreza. AWD and gets 36mpg. Our Outback (4th Gen) was awesome. Got 33MPG on the freeway and drove through snow better than my truck.

[yinzerniner]

I’ll put the plug-in for a Subaru Forester or Outback as well. Best AWD for winter conditions and adding snow tires is like wearing a belt and suspenders.
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I couldn't disagree more. The more apt comparison is shorts vs pants - they both keep your junk covered, but are made for vastly different conditions.

Especially in Maine, which gets icy as eff and has some of the bitterest winters out there a soft-compound tire is a must.

That being said if the daughter doesn't mind a sedan the Impreza might be the way to go. AWD, better dealer incentives than the larger models, will handle better than taller vehicles, better fuel economy. And since it has the underpowered engine no worrying about impromptu Fast and Furious drag races.

[azrider]

I got my wife into a Honda CRV about 4 years ago and she loves that car as much today as she did 4 years ago. Plenty of room for work (she's in uniform sales so it's sometimes packed with racks of clothes), plenty of room for two kids and the boatloads of crap that come with them (strollers, toys, bags, etc).....gets good gas mileage, drives like a car, bluetooth, heated seats. We powder-coated the rims black to appear a bit sportier ;) but all in all she loves it.

I just talked to her the other day about upgrading to a Honda Pilot, but she loves her CRV too much to make the jump.

[saab2000]

I’ll put the plug-in for a Subaru Forester or Outback as well. Best AWD for winter conditions and adding snow tires is like wearing a belt and suspenders.


Totally disagree. AWD is for starting and basic AWD systems do next to nothing for cornering and nothing for deceleration. That’s where winter tires like Bridgestone Blizzaks come into play.

Drive with them for a week in a snowy place like Maine and there’s no going back. Good tires enhance the qualities of AWD, not the other way around.

[cadence90]

I got my wife into a Honda CRV about 4 years ago and she loves that car as much today as she did 4 years ago. Plenty of room for work (she's in uniform sales so it's sometimes packed with racks of clothes), plenty of room for two kids and the boatloads of crap that come with them (strollers, toys, bags, etc).....gets good gas mileage, drives like a car, bluetooth, heated seats. We powder-coated the rims black to appear a bit sportier ;) but all in all she loves it.

I just talked to her the other day about upgrading to a Honda Pilot, but she loves her CRV too much to make the jump.

If you do decide to sell that CRV (LA, though) please let me know...I am actively looking for a new used car (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=2357800#post2357800).
.

[trener1]

My in laws bought a Mazda CX-5 about 2.5 years ago, they seem really happy with it.
I like the way it looks as well, I think the new ones look really great.

[AngryScientist]

this may be an unpopular choice among this crowd, but the newly renovated jeep compass get's pretty good marks, and drives well. i just rented one and was impressed. it's also available in stick shift!

http://92900f15cb17e30af808-45de37ea58b70a52528ec0f30039548a.r86.cf1.rackcdn.c om/3C4NJDDB7JT128777/e354d400cd55ad38afe4e3391dd42df6.jpg

[sjbraun]

We bought a CX-5 with our VW Scandalwagen settlement. We REALLY like the Mazda. It's very comfortable, quiet, and has just the right amount of luxury/safety features for our needs.

[yinzerniner]

this may be an unpopular choice among this crowd, but the newly renovated jeep compass get's pretty good marks, and drives well. i just rented one and was impressed. it's also available in stick shift!

http://92900f15cb17e30af808-45de37ea58b70a52528ec0f30039548a.r86.cf1.rackcdn.c om/3C4NJDDB7JT128777/e354d400cd55ad38afe4e3391dd42df6.jpg

Have you ever owned a non-Wrangler Jeep? They make Fiats look reliable in comparison.

[josephr]

2014 CX-5 here, bought it with 3 miles, not just about 80k and its never had any sort of problem. What made me look its way is that once Mazda finally got Ford off its back, they went straight to work on the CX-5 along with a new transmission (Ford had been shoving the old one down their throats for so long). The chassis is plenty stiff and the ride is taut, without being harsh.

I test drove everything - CRV, RAV4, Subaru, Tiguan, etc...very happy with my CX-5 and considering moving the vehicle to my daughter and picking up a new one.

[staggerwing]

Have you ever owned a non-Wrangler Jeep? They make Fiats look reliable in comparison.

Nowadays, same company, are they not?

[tab123]

I traded in a BMW X3 for a Subaru Forester with a turbo engine. The engine is peppy with no turbo lag or float (I guess those are things of the past). It’s fantastic on rough roads (much better than my Grand Cherokee) and superb in the snow (with a good set of studless snow tires). Clearance is great. Two winters ago when the streets around here were essentially snow ruts, the car never high-centered.

[yinzerniner]

Nowadays, same company, are they not?

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/012/132/thatsthejoke.jpg

[staggerwing]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/012/132/thatsthejoke.jpg

Sorry, flew over my head at this hour.

[azrider]

this may be an unpopular choice among this crowd, but the newly renovated jeep compass get's pretty good marks, and drives well. i just rented one and was impressed. it's also available in stick shift!



http://92900f15cb17e30af808-45de37ea58b70a52528ec0f30039548a.r86.cf1.rackcdn.c om/3C4NJDDB7JT128777/e354d400cd55ad38afe4e3391dd42df6.jpg



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180503/22001ea1e70e87c99bbec8613610b75e.jpg



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[sparky33]

I traded in a BMW X3 for a Subaru Forester with a turbo engine. The engine is peppy with no turbo lag or float (I guess those are things of the past). It’s fantastic on rough roads (much better than my Grand Cherokee) and superb in the snow (with a good set of studless snow tires). Clearance is great. Two winters ago when the streets around here were essentially snow ruts, the car never high-centered.

I traded my Outback for a MB E350 wagon several years ago. This new wagon is fancier and more fun to drive for sure. Handling in snow is surprisingly great. Though the Benz has minimal ground clearance - it's real low...~5". High spotting is much more of an issue lately with many more trips off the beaten path.

I kind of want my Subaru back. :) Maybe a 2020 remodel version will do it.

[sitzmark]

No experience with any of your vehicles of choice - know people who have all and none complain about their purchase. Personal choice. All makes/models can (and do) have warranty repairs, sometimes luck of the draw.

UNE Biddeford? Maine winters of late haven’t been particularly wicked. Coastal regions have dealt with freezing rain on occasions, but major snow dumps have been few and far between. I’ve travelled from MA to western ME 20-30 times a winter for the past 18+ years. AWD - sometimes with snow tires, majority of times not. She’ll have a a great experience at school and will love whatever vehicle you get for her!

[holliscx]

You can purchase a Volvo XC40 on your phone. It's a flat fee including insurance. Any maintenance down to a new windshield wiper blade is handled on your phone. At the end of two years you can put $540 of 600 per mos I believe towards purchasing the car or upgrade. Do the math but the subscriber model may be worth considering.

[saab2000]

You can purchase a Volvo XC40 on your phone. It's a flat fee including insurance. Any maintenance down to a new windshield wiper blade is handled on your phone. At the end of two years you can put $540 of 600 per mos I believe towards purchasing the car or upgrade. Do the math but the subscriber model may be worth considering.

I saw this too. I recently went into the local Volvo dealer and I got the distinct impression the dealership hates it! They get very little commission it would appear.

The whole transaction is done online. I actually really like the idea because I can't stand the dealership experience at pretty much any dealer.

[verticaldoug]

Mercedes AMG GLA 45

[tculbreath]

+1 for the CRV. We had one for a few years, and loved it! Honda makes a solid product with decent fuel mileage. Rear seats laid down for plenty of room for trips, and easy in/out for kids (if she keeps it that long). Took it on many long road trips to Michigan (from Oklahoma), and never had an issue.

TC

[54ny77]

Anyone have a recent model Hyundai Santa Fe (Sport or otherwise)? If so can you comment on it? Am looking at one (used).

[sparky33]

Mercedes AMG GLA 45

pocket rocket.

that said, the regular GLA is really nice too. plenty of power, versatile handling, good mpg, modern infotainment, comfortable, good dealer service. If not for kids&dog, it would be tops on my list.

[AngryScientist]

LOL at this forum.

guy asks what car to send his kid off to college with and it's not too long before AMG Merc comes up.

[sparky33]

LOL at this forum.

guy asks what car to send his kid off to college with and it's not too long before AMG Merc comes up.
spoiling others' children with others' money is tons of fun. Don't tell my kids.

[p nut]

Anyone have a recent model Hyundai Santa Fe (Sport or otherwise)? If so can you comment on it? Am looking at one (used).

Neighbor has a Kia Sorento, which is basically the same thing. Kia is a little bigger, which is why they went it over the Santa Fe, just FYI. But they've been happy with it over the last 3 years. No issues. Nice 100k warranty as well.

[yinzerniner]

Anyone have a recent model Hyundai Santa Fe (Sport or otherwise)? If so can you comment on it? Am looking at one (used).

Worst part about any Kia or Hyundai is the dealership experience. Since Kia and Hyundai only really got their isht together about ten years ago in terms of consistently making a quality product they don't have the long-term selling and support track record of other dealer networks. High employee turnover leads to less qualified and competent sales and service staff, but they're slowly starting to get better, especially with the Genesis brand (and the increased revenue from upscale product) being offered as a carrot on the stick to the best dealerships. Their cars are all very, very good at this point. Initial quality is close to Honda, Mazda and Toyota, and above Nissan, but they depreciate more. Steering and suspension tuning is below Mazda and Honda but above Toyota and Nissan, and the interiors are about on par with Toyota and Mazda but below Honda and Nissan. Generally they have more aggressive discounts/promotions than the Japanese competitors, but less than the US marques. Again, this is almost all subjective and related to the NorthEast region in terms of pricing and deals.

Really depends on your current situation and how long you intend to keep the vehicle. If it's forever, and you get a great deal then by all means go for it. If you're going to sell in 5 years and/or the discounts aren't that great then it might be better in the long run to look elsewhere.

[54ny77]

That's good color. Do you own a Santa Fe? Was really hoping more for direct ownership experience on that one.

You're right on the depreciation. It's pretty steep. I'm looking at something used like a Santa Fe (just happen to like the looks more than other similar offerings) and driving it till it drops, so the more depreciation the merrier...

Worst part about any Kia or Hyundai is the dealership experience. Since Kia and Hyundai only really got their isht together about ten years ago in terms of consistently making a quality product they don't have the long-term selling and support track record of other dealer networks. High employee turnover leads to less qualified and competent sales and service staff, but they're slowly starting to get better, especially with the Genesis brand (and the increased revenue from upscale product) being offered as a carrot on the stick to the best dealerships. Their cars are all very, very good at this point. Initial quality is close to Honda, Mazda and Toyota, and above Nissan, but they depreciate more. Steering and suspension tuning is below Mazda and Honda but above Toyota and Nissan, and the interiors are about on par with Toyota and Mazda but below Honda and Nissan. Generally they have more aggressive discounts/promotions than the Japanese competitors, but less than the US marques. Again, this is almost all subjective and related to the NorthEast region in terms of pricing and deals.

Really depends on your current situation and how long you intend to keep the vehicle. If it's forever, and you get a great deal then by all means go for it. If you're going to sell in 5 years and/or the discounts aren't that great then it might be better in the long run to look elsewhere.

[kevinvc]

This thread is timely. We're in the process of replacing our old minivan with a small SUV. We'll buy used and will keep it until it dies, so resale isn't a big consideration. We have 2 teenagers who will be learning to drive soon, so safety is a huge priority, followed by reliability. We drive less than 10,000 miles a year, so getting something with high mileage isn't a problem. We don't get much snow, so that's not a concern, and I don't care about driving performance.

I started off considering a 2016 or so Toyota Rav4, Honda CRV and Suburu Forester. But all three hold their value and are about 25% more expensive than similar models like the Nissan Rogue or Hyundai Tucson. I know that these lower cost options aren't going to be as reliable as the "big 3" but they're similar in most of the other categories and about $5,000 cheaper.

I appreciate all the feedback people are giving in this thread, although the end result is actually making me more confused rather than less.

[p nut]

This thread is timely. We're in the process of replacing our old minivan with a small SUV. We'll buy used and will keep it until it dies, so resale isn't a big consideration. We have 2 teenagers who will be learning to drive soon, so safety is a huge priority, followed by reliability. We drive less than 10,000 miles a year, so getting something with high mileage isn't a problem. We don't get much snow, so that's not a concern, and I don't care about driving performance.

I started off considering a 2016 or so Toyota Rav4, Honda CRV and Suburu Forester. But all three hold their value and are about 25% more expensive than similar models like the Nissan Rogue or Hyundai Tucson. I know that these lower cost options aren't going to be as reliable as the "big 3" but they're similar in most of the other categories and about $5,000 cheaper.

I appreciate all the feedback people are giving in this thread, although the end result is actually making me more confused rather than less.

If it doesn't snow and you don't care about driving performance, why bother with anything other than a minivan? My wife does not miss the Outback nor other CUV's after getting a minivan.

[HenryA]

OP stated he wanted a short term lease. Not sure how short, but seems like getting her through school would be nice.

For a lease, the car choice is not that important if you’re just gonna turn it in within the lease terms. So, it becomes more a choice of which one she likes balanced against the money spent.

But I’d pick an Outback if she likes it and the lease cost is right. Maybe even with the thought of buying it out at the end. They are nice cars and go in the snow like a snowmobile.

[yinzerniner]

That's good color. Do you own a Santa Fe? Was really hoping more for direct ownership experience on that one.

You're right on the depreciation. It's pretty steep. I'm looking at something used like a Santa Fe (just happen to like the looks more than other similar offerings) and driving it till it drops, so the more depreciation the merrier...

I don't personally own a Santa Fe or it's brother the Sorrento, but a few close friends have one or the other and they have nothing bad to say about either. It helps that near me (NYC/CT) there are roughly 1.6 Jillion Kia and Hyundai dealers, so they compete with each other alot for deals and service quality. Everything about them is good if not great, but they're also roughly 10-15% less than competing CX-5s and HRVs. But the people I know who own Mazdas and Hondas LOVE THEM.

My father has had three Hyundai Genesis sedans (actually purchased the first one ever commercially sold in the US) and they've all been exemplary.

If you're looking for a cheap, long term solution the Santa Fe is probably the way to go. If you're looking for something long term that'll be more expensive but you'll enjoy more then the Mazda or Honda are probably better bets.

[saab2000]

Mercedes AMG GLA 45

I like how you think. Audi SQ5 is an appropriate runabout for Maine as well.

[kevinvc]

If it doesn't snow and you don't care about driving performance, why bother with anything other than a minivan? My wife does not miss the Outback nor other CUV's after getting a minivan.

We don't need the third row anymore. I want something with a shorter wheelbase that's easier to drive and park in the city and that gets better mileage. I also want something with a lower height so I can put bikes and kayak on a roof rack.

The minivan was a great tool for when we had 2 young ones who needed lots of gear to get around, and then through their middle school years when they always had a few friends in tow. Something smaller makes more sense now.

We got our van through Hertz car sales and will definitely consider that route again (or Enterprise). You can get a good warranty and they have no-haggle pricing below blue book.

[tylercheung]

spoiling others' children with others' money is tons of fun. Don't tell my kids.


Kind of OT, but I recall reading a story on the Miata forums, this driver recounted her first Miata at age 17 or whenever driving age came up; her dad bought her a used NB model, and a set of tools and stated that he'd pay for the cars and the tools, but she had to do all the repairs herself...

[gdw]

I like how you think. Audi SQ5 is an appropriate runabout for Maine as well.

For transplanted Massholes and New Yorkers.:banana:.

Front wheel drive and quality snow tires are all she needs but if you're more comfortable with her in an AWD my vote would be for a Subaru. They are great in snow, get good mileage per gallon, and have been popular in the state for years so it's pretty easy to find someone who can work on it if necessary.

[rwsaunders]

OP stated he wanted a short term lease. Not sure how short, but seems like getting her through school would be nice.

For a lease, the car choice is not that important if you’re just gonna turn it in within the lease terms. So, it becomes more a choice of which one she likes balanced against the money spent.

But I’d pick an Outback if she likes it and the lease cost is right. Maybe even with the thought of buying it out at the end. They are nice cars and go in the snow like a snowmobile.

Yep the lease sets up a new equation most likely for 3 years with a buyout option. If so, go for the best deal and safety record as reliability shouldn't really be an issue over such a short term.

[p nut]

For transplanted Massholes and New Yorkers.:banana:.

Front wheel drive and quality snow tires are all she needs but if you're more comfortable with her in an AWD my vote would be for a Subaru. They are great in snow, get good mileage per gallon, and have been popular in the state for years so it's pretty easy to find someone who can work on it if necessary.

For me, FWD is not enough. At least several days out of the year, there are hilly streets that I can simply not get up without AWD, snow tires or not (even studded). AWD plus all-seasons turn out to be better for me than FWD and snow tires. Especially the subpar job the city is doing with snow removal as of late.

[saab2000]

AWD and snow tires trumps (no pun intended - it's the right word here) all.

I have spent a lot of time in Switzerland and have skied there. There are roads that are off limits to cars with no chains on the tires. The exception is AWD with snow tires. Of course, snow tires are essentially mandatory there in the winter and nobody argues, but AWD makes it even better.

My next car will have AWD and will wear snow tires from Dec. 1 until March 31 if I continue to live in the upper Midwest. I'd do the same in New England.

[GregL]

AWD and snow tires trumps (no pun intended - it's the right word here) all.

I have spent a lot of time in Switzerland and have skied there. There are roads that are off limits to cars with no chains on the tires. The exception is AWD with snow tires. Of course, snow tires are essentially mandatory there in the winter and nobody argues, but AWD makes it even better.

My next car will have AWD and will wear snow tires from Dec. 1 until March 31 if I continue to live in the upper Midwest. I'd do the same in New England.
Said it earlier in this thread, but worth repeating: my CX-5 AWD with Blizzaks on all four corners is simply amazing in snow. Well-balanced vehicle with predictable handling, good ground clearance, plenty of power, good brakes, and excellent traction. I almost feel like I have an "unfair advantage" over other motorists on typical snowy Syracuse winter days.

Greg

[saab2000]

Said it earlier in this thread, but worth repeating: my CX-5 AWD with Blizzaks on all four corners is simply amazing in snow. Well-balanced vehicle with predictable handling, good ground clearance, plenty of power, good brakes, and excellent traction. I almost feel like I have an "unfair advantage" over other motorists on typical snowy Syracuse winter days.

Greg

People who have this combo have the best winter driving experience. My GTI with Blizzaks is completely transformed in winter.

[danman]

She is going to Osteopath school. The car will be leased. She doesn't want to deal with the extra cost of mounted snow tires. She will probably have an apartment and no place to store snow tires. My wife is a physician in SW Connecticut. She commutes about 15 mi to the hospital and 8 miles to the practice. She has had a variety of Subaru's, Legacy, Forrester, Outback. None have snow tires. No problems ever. Just need to slow down in the snow. She loves the eye sight on the current Outback. Also, she will have minimal time for car maintenance (that's what husbands are for). She just wants to be able to get to work and back.

[jamesdak]

Have you ever owned a non-Wrangler Jeep? They make Fiats look reliable in comparison.

Actually you're a bit off there. I own a 2014 Jeep Patriot (same as compass under the body) and for many years these were the only Jeeps with good reliability ratings, not the Wrangler.

I've got 54,000 miles on mine and the only issue was the CVT coming from the factory overfilled which causes problems. There has been nothing else done to it other than normal maintenance. Not a single part has failed.

If you get the version with the most advance 4WD (like my Freedom Drive II setup) you have a vehicle much more capable than the others mentioned throughout this thread.

But yeah it's value will plummet, dealer service sucks, and the perception on these makes it hard to resell I bet. That said mine had never stumbled in the winter and climbs like a mountain goat. Had two wheels up in the air the other day and the brake lock differential setup worked perfectly and little jeep just kept right on going. The other big plus was how much bigger inside it seems compared to most of the other compact SUVs.

Now all that said, I keep thinking of selling mine for a CX-5. The Jeeps are great 4wd vehicles but a bit lacking on the highway.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/167420173/large.jpg

[Faucet]

One more plug for the CX-5. I don't know what your bike-hauling plans are, but if you're getting a hitch rack (specifically the 1UP) you can still open the hatch with the rack in the stowed position! It doesn't seem like a dealbreaker, but it's incredibly convenient.

[bigman]

for all the input. My Dad owns a Sonata and loves it. He moved,raved about the first dealer not so much love for the second.
Although snow tires will be a hassle I cant see not getting them.I read a review where the cx5 awd beat out the Subarus system but both very good.
I test drove a xc40 very fun to drive amazing seats but much more money.
maybe a late model used santa fe is worth looking into.
I met a guy at rest stop who bought one from enterprise w under 12k said he saved about half over new.
Thankfully my eldest daughter is headed to Columbia and needs no car!

[p nut]

....I read a review where the cx5 awd beat out the Subarus system but both very good...

I don’t see that happening unless it was in a Mazda commercial. But both will be just fine as long as tires are up to the task.

I love wagons though. After I get rid of the truck in a few years, I’ll probably go with another wagon. Most likely a Volvo.

[GregL]

I don’t see that happening unless it was in a Mazda commercial. But both will be just fine as long as tires are up to the task.

I love wagons though. After I get rid of the truck in a few years, I’ll probably go with another wagon. Most likely a Volvo.
Anecdotally, the CX-5 is (IMO) a better all-around performer than either a Forester, Outback, or Honda Element. My wife had one each of the aforementioned vehicles (all AWD) and my CX-5 outperforms all of them on dry, wet, or snow-covered roads. Faster in a straight line, better handling, and better gas mileage too.

Greg

[p nut]

Anecdotally, the CX-5 is (IMO) a better all-around performer than either a Forester, Outback, or Honda Element. My wife had one each of the aforementioned vehicles (all AWD) and my CX-5 outperforms all of them on dry, wet, or snow-covered roads. Faster in a straight line, better handling, and better gas mileage too.

Greg

That’s good to hear. Subaru off road with that x mode performs pretty well, but Mazda has always had an edge on on-road performance.

[Spdntrxi]

The cx5 is no where near as good a vehicle as the forester in the snow.... I’ll give you some of the other points.

[soulspinner]

I work at a Volvo dealer but if those are too pricey my neighbors were just rear eneded(at 50 mph,cell phone) at a stop light in their 17 crv touring. Their 1 year old in the back seat was unscathed( unlike the bike that was behind her). I was impressed by how it held up. You never think about safety til it happens to you............

[GregL]

The cx5 is no where near as good a vehicle as the forester in the snow.... I’ll give you some of the other points.
I'll respectfully disagree on snow performance. With equivalent snow tires on all four wheels, I found the CX-5 to be a better performer than the Forester. It's not the the Forester was a poor performer. I found the Subaru to be a very good winter vehicle. The better chassis dynamics of the Mazda just makes it an "excellent" performer compared to the "very good" Subaru. Of course, it's just my opinion. Either vehicle would provide competent, safe winter transportation.

Greg

[AngryScientist]

is Mazda still affiliated with Ford in any way, or have those two companies cut ties?

[GregL]

is Mazda still affiliated with Ford in any way, or have those two companies cut ties?
Completely separate. Ford sold off its stake in Mazda between 2008 and 2015. You can see the effect on cars introduced over that period. The "Skyactiv" engine line and new styling were introduced as Ford divested itself from Mazda.

Greg

[AngryScientist]

Thanks Greg. I haven't really been paying attention to the industry. i used to really drive a lot of miles, but hardly drive my own cars at all anymore.

[bigman]

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/222752-which-compact-suv-has-the-best-all-wheel-drive-system-for-snow-and-ice

Interesting article.

[benb]

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/222752-which-compact-suv-has-the-best-all-wheel-drive-system-for-snow-and-ice

Interesting article.

Not that Mazda is bad here because all the car companies do the exact same thing but that article is a regurgitated Mazda sales pitch.

The author got invited to a Mazda controlled experiment designed to make their cars look superior. Note it doesn't mention the specific tires on each car and the drivers had to perform the tasks Mazda laid out. He doesn't mention he was probably paid to attend the event, or at least had his expenses taken care of.

All the AWD/Stability/ABS systems have quirks and edge cases. Every manufacturer can lay out a test that makes their system look better because it is not at all hard for an engineer or even driver to take the competing vehicles and quickly figure out where it's weak points are.

You take the exact same location and exact same vehicles and have Subaru put on the event and they'll tweak the driving exercises to make the Subaru look best. Have Honda put it on and they'll make the Honda look best.

All the car companies are REALLY good at this kind of event. I don't think it's necessarily even possible to figure out which AWD system is really the best. When things get really really bad the fully locking 4WD system on a Jeep Wrangler probably slays them all and it never gets included in any of the tests.

[hoonjr]

I'd recommend the CX-5. I have a 2016 and I chose it for the best handling/best mpg intersection. We hardly have any snow in VA but the AWD does fine with all seasons when we do. I'd definitely recommend snow tires in Maine. I grew up there and I'd want the better stopping power they provide in snow.

[Ozz]

I was visiting a client up in Fairbanks a couple years ago. She drove us to dinner after our meeting and we got to talking about the Subaru she was driving.

She was convinced to buy one because she had a friend in the towing business, who told her that he never had to pull them out of ditches or snowbanks.

There you go...one more anecdote for Subaru!

[yinzerniner]

I was visiting a client up in Fairbanks a couple years ago. She drove us to dinner after our meeting and we got to talking about the Subaru she was driving.

She was convinced to buy one because she had a friend in the towing business, who told her that he never had to pull them out of ditches or snowbanks.

There you go...one more anecdote for Subaru!

I'd agree with the majority of sentiments - in my experience, all other variables being equal the full time AWD system of the Subaru bests the other AWD systems. For whatever reason it seems more intuitive in finding traction immediately vs some of the other systems out there, which take a little longer to hook up to the correct wheel. That's purely anecdotal and more than likely tinged with recency bias, but take it as another notch on Subaru's belt.

That being said, the AWD system on the CX-5, Santa Fe and Escape (which I've recently had the chance to drive on the snow) are all very, very good and completely trustworthy to assist in any hairy cold driving conditions. I'd venture to say that the AWD systems on other competitive vehicles are likely just as good. Since the OP said his daughter doesn't really care too much about driving dynamics and most likely won't be able to have a spare set of snow tires on hand the most prudent course of action would be to lease the vehicle she likes the best after extensive test drives and then fit them with All-Weather, NOT All-Season tires. The All-Weather will wear a bit quicker and feel a bit more sluggish during warmer months, but they will perform much, much better in cold and snowy conditions.

[mktng]

honestly.

my 2013 Honda Fit with good snow tires has done well over the past 4 winters here in Ottawa. to the point where ... i dont even really consider awd/4wd. obviously if its bad...its bad..

but since the Fit is out of the question.

get a HRV AWD (taking gas prices into consideration)
its got the same capabilities as the CRV AWD (minus a few hp) and it'll be cheaper to run..

[gdw]

Ahonestly.

my 2013 Honda Fit with good snow tires has done well over the past 4 winters here in Ottawa. to the point where ... i dont even really consider awd/4wd. obviously if its bad...its bad..

It's interesting reading these posts after having lived in the state and region for over 20 years. I never owned an AWD or 4 wheel drive vehicle while there and knew very few people, real Mainers not transplants, who did. Knowing how to drive in snow is much more important than the vehicle you chose to operate.

[Mark McM]

I'd agree with the majority of sentiments - in my experience, all other variables being equal the full time AWD system of the Subaru bests the other AWD systems. For whatever reason it seems more intuitive in finding traction immediately vs some of the other systems out there, which take a little longer to hook up to the correct wheel. That's purely anecdotal and more than likely tinged with recency bias, but take it as another notch on Subaru's belt.

When drawing comparisons, it's probably best to point out that a given manufacturer may use different types of AWD systems - even for the same model. For example, the manual transmission Subaru Impreza use a continuous AWD system which links front and rear through a viscous coupler, whereas the CVT transmission Subaru Impreza uses a variable hydraulic transfer clutch to control front/rear torque distribution. So the AWD system of an Impreza may behave differently, depending on the transmission/coupling system installed in that particular vehicle.

[Dirtdiggler]

Chuck Norris invented the Subaru.
Japanese translation of Subaru is Norris Chuck.

[AngryScientist]

Knowing how to drive in snow is much more important than the vehicle you chose to operate.

that's not necessarily true, especially for a place that get's decent snowfall totals. if it snows more than 12" overnight and you need to get to work before they plow out your side street - if you're driving a honda fit with snow tires - you aint getting anywhere. if you're in a 4WD tacoma - you are.

[gdw]

If there are 12 inches of snow on the streets most folks with common sense stay home until the roads have been cleared.

[yinzerniner]

When drawing comparisons, it's probably best to point out that a given manufacturer may use different types of AWD systems - even for the same model. For example, the manual transmission Subaru Impreza use a continuous AWD system which links front and rear through a viscous coupler, whereas the CVT transmission Subaru Impreza uses a variable hydraulic transfer clutch to control front/rear torque distribution. So the AWD system of an Impreza may behave differently, depending on the transmission/coupling system installed in that particular vehicle.

Very good points, and I believe the STI has an even different AWD system further muddying the situation up. But my most recent haul was in a 2016 or 2017 Outback with CVT, so it must have had the electronic clutch in northern VT, during pretty hairy conditions near Stowe.

that's not necessarily true, especially for a place that get's decent snowfall totals. if it snows more than 12" overnight and you need to get to work before they plow out your side street - if you're driving a honda fit with snow tires - you aint getting anywhere. if you're in a 4WD tacoma - you are.

NONE of the vehicles mentioned up to this point would ever be able to handle 12" of fresh snow with or without snow tires so your point really isn't salient to the issue. Having gone to school in VT I know they'll cancel classes when conditions are unsafe as they won't risk teachers' safety, but those large snowfalls that occur without having adequate plowing are very rare. I see a zero percent chance where the OP's daughter will have to miss class because her SUV or CUV couldn't handle the conditions.
And I also highly disagree with your assertion that proper driving technique is secondary to the vehicle being used. Studded tires or chains on a Hilux won't do jack isht if you're taking an icy corner at exorbitant speeds, or expecting to stop on a dime because you're following the car ahead of you too close.

[benb]

Yah Subaru has about 4 systems, the common point though is all of them put torque through all the wheels all the time unless that wheel is spinning.

The CVT ones work the closest to stuff like the Mazda/Honda/Toyota systems. But they never completely disengage the clutch pack, which is almost weird.

I've never driven an STI.. I would really consider buying a WRX for a fun car at some point but I think the STI would get on my nerves as just a little too boy racer. But I would really like to try an STI out at some driver demo day or something to get to try the dial on the center console that changes the diff settings for different surfaces.

[AngryScientist]

.
And I also highly disagree with your assertion that proper driving technique is secondary to the vehicle being used.

i didnt assert that. my point was only that proper driving technique only gets you so far, until you become equipment limited.

i do agree that in the context of this thread, and the OP's daughters situation, attending school - these discussions are largely inapplicable.

realistically speaking, as mentioned by the OP, the daughter will lease an AWD vehicle and run the stock all season tires for the time she spends up north. with common sense, and cautious driving, she'll be fine.

note though, that outside of the context of this thread, there are some folks who do not have the luxury of staying home and waiting it out when the deep snow falls. people who have critical jobs, including the guys who run the municipal plow trucks, people who operate the power grid, and other folks who keep the world turning just share a culture of going to work, regardless of conditions.

just sayin that you can be the absolute best driver in the world, but sometimes you need the right tool for the job.

[mktng]

that's not necessarily true, especially for a place that get's decent snowfall totals. if it snows more than 12" overnight and you need to get to work before they plow out your side street - if you're driving a honda fit with snow tires - you aint getting anywhere. if you're in a 4WD tacoma - you are.

xmas morning. spent the night at my in laws who live out in the boonies. no plows. forgot diapers for my son. drove 50kms back home through 12+ inches of snow...probably more... drove back

no issues in my fit.

no stress

happy baby.

4wd and awd definitely helps. but. not necessary for 99% of the drivers out there.

but thats sort of off topic.

I still think the Honda HRV is a good option!!

[p nut]

...NONE of the vehicles mentioned up to this point would ever be able to handle 12" of fresh snow with or without snow tires so your point really isn't salient to the issue. Having gone to school in VT I know they'll cancel classes when conditions are unsafe as they won't risk teachers' safety, but those large snowfalls that occur without having adequate plowing are very rare. I see a zero percent chance where the OP's daughter will have to miss class because her SUV or CUV couldn't handle the conditions.
And I also highly disagree with your assertion that proper driving technique is secondary to the vehicle being used. Studded tires or chains on a Hilux won't do jack isht if you're taking an icy corner at exorbitant speeds, or expecting to stop on a dime because you're following the car ahead of you too close.

Depends on the snow. Ice shavings you guys call snow back east is no fun in any vehicle. But out west, in the high desert, 12" of fresh pow is manageable in a Subaru without the worry of getting high centered.

There is no getting around the superiority of AWD in snow, though. Equipped the same (snow tires or not), it will get up AND down hills much safer. I know I have been in dangerous situations because my FWD (with studded snows) couldn't get up a hill. Cars coming at me from both directions. Scary moments. Which is when I promptly sold it for an AWD.

[p nut]

xmas morning. spent the night at my in laws who live out in the boonies. no plows. forgot diapers for my son. drove 50kms back home through 12+ inches of snow...probably more... drove back

no issues in my fit.

no stress

happy baby.

4wd and awd definitely helps. but. not necessary for 99% of the drivers out there.

but thats sort of off topic.

I still think the Honda HRV is a good option!!

The Fit was one of the cars I really loved. Just couldn't handle the hills by my house during a storm. Most of the time, it was ok, because the plows got there in time. But almost had to abandon my car on a couple of occasions, and really should have, but decided to pull some unsafe maneuvers.

But I agree, that HRV would be an awesome vehicle. You can fit so much in them with the magic seat.

[Mark McM]

NONE of the vehicles mentioned up to this point would ever be able to handle 12" of fresh snow with or without snow tires so your point really isn't salient to the issue. Having gone to school in VT I know they'll cancel classes when conditions are unsafe as they won't risk teachers' safety, but those large snowfalls that occur without having adequate plowing are very rare. I see a zero percent chance where the OP's daughter will have to miss class because her SUV or CUV couldn't handle the conditions.

This is a good point. Having a vehicle that can get through any conditions in case you have to respond to an emergency situation is one thing, but going to mundane things like classes? Typically mundane activities will be cancelled if not enough people can (safely) attend anyway.

Here in eastern Massachusetts, I find the main thing that limits my ability to drive on snowy roads is the ability of the cars/drivers ahead of me to drive on snowy roads. And if the conditions are so bad I can't drive to the place for the activity I want to do, the chances are that nobody else could either so the activity isn't taking place.

I had a Subaru Impreza (with snow tires in the winter) for many years, and it is true that the AWD system does improve the ability to keep moving on snowy roads. But I also found that the conditions in which the AWD system made a significant difference occurred only a few days a year, but I suffered the disadvantages of AWD all year long (such as: reduced fuel mileage, slight reduction in power, reduction in cabin internal space compare to a FWD car due to the drive shaft hump). My next car did not have AWD, and even though I often drive to NH and VT for skiing, I haven't really missed the AWD of the Subaru at all. A good set of snow tires is all I've needed, and have gotten me anywhere I want to go, snow or no snow.

[yinzerniner]

i didnt assert that. my point was only that proper driving technique only gets you so far, until you become equipment limited.

just sayin that you can be the absolute best driver in the world, but sometimes you need the right tool for the job.

Got ya, those sentiments didn't quite make it through your earlier reply, and I wholeheartedly agree that technique will only get you so far. But I still assert that technique for snow driving is more important that equipment, UNLESS the conditions are extreme.

I still think the Honda HRV is a good option!!

I agree! No need to shout!!!!!!
But for real the HRV is a nice little vehicle. On a somewhat related tangent the other week had to rent a car and they gave me a brand new Kia Soul, which I almost refused taking since I'm not an EDM-crazy dancing hamster. But the thing was surprisingly great and fun! Interior had a lot of usable room for being so small, and the engine had a good amount of pep. I'd assume the HRV with AWD is pretty similarly practical and fun.

[saab2000]

This is a good point. Having a vehicle that can get through any conditions in case you have to respond to an emergency situation is one thing, but going to mundane things like classes? Typically mundane activities will be cancelled if not enough people can (safely) attend anyway.

Here in eastern Massachusetts, I find the main thing that limits my ability to drive on snowy roads is the ability of the cars/drivers ahead of me to drive on snowy roads. And if the conditions are so bad I can't drive to the place for the activity I want to do, the chances are that nobody else could either so the activity isn't taking place.

I had a Subaru Impreza (with snow tires in the winter) for many years, and it is true that the AWD system does improve the ability to keep moving on snowy roads. But I also found that the conditions in which the AWD system made a significant difference occurred only a few days a year, but I suffered the disadvantages of AWD all year long (such as: reduced fuel mileage, slight reduction in power, reduction in cabin internal space compare to a FWD car due to the drive shaft hump). My next car did not have AWD, and even though I often drive to NH and VT for skiing, I haven't really missed the AWD of the Subaru at all. A good set of snow tires is all I've needed, and have gotten me anywhere I want to go, snow or no snow.

These are good points. Where I currently live (western Michigan, where it snows a lot) I've done just fine with FWD and snow tires. That said, I see most folks not using snow tires and then telling me that their car isn't a good snow car.

I helped push my neighbor's Malibu out of some snow she got stuck in and it was embarrassing because her tires were nearly bald (no mandatory safety inspections here.........) and the snow was literally only a few inches deep. People who say snow tires aren't that big a deal in these climates have usually never tried them.

[AngryScientist]

Got ya, those sentiments didn't quite make it through your earlier reply, and I wholeheartedly agree that technique will only get you so far. But I still assert that technique for snow driving is more important that equipment, UNLESS the conditions are extreme.
.

right on. agree.

[GregL]

Agree completely that snow tires are more important than AWD for typical on-road winter driving. AWD is not a cure-all. To quote P. J. O'Rourke, "Four-wheel drive allows you to mire four wheels axle-deep in the woods instead of just two. (http://www.angelfire.com/fl/ricestuff/pickup.html)"

Our family has three daily drivers. Only one has AWD, but all have snow tires on all four corners during the winter months. The AWD vehicle (CX-5) has little maintenance or fuel economy penalty for the extra set of drive wheels. The AWD also comes in handy for boat & personal watercraft launching during the summer months. Living in the lake effect snow belt, we can (and often do) get 12+ inches of snow during the course of a work day. It's nice to have the AWD for getting home with little stress at the end of a snowy day.

Greg

[Marc40a]

I am snow tire advocate - use them on almost all my vehicles.
Snow tires are the bomb.

Ditto

[Marc40a]

Honda or Subaru with all wheel drive.

Word

[Mark McM]

Agree completely that snow tires are more important than AWD for typical on-road winter driving. AWD is not a cure-all. To quote P. J. O'Rourke, "Four-wheel drive allows you to mire four wheels axle-deep in the woods instead of just two. (http://www.angelfire.com/fl/ricestuff/pickup.html)"

Since there is a strong consensus on this, one has to question whether the OP's original idea of an AWD vehicle without snow tires will achieve the desired results.

[yinzerniner]

Since there is a strong consensus on this, one has to question whether the OP's original idea of an AWD vehicle without snow tires will achieve the desired results.

It's the whole convenience and psychology vs actual use argument. If the OP really wants to keep his daughter as safe as possible without breaking the bank then maybe researching a place either in Maine or along the route to/from Maine that does changeover and storage. Or just rent a small storage locker for $20/month and teach her how to change tires, which will undoubtedly be a lifetime skill with huge benefits should she ever be in a similar situation on the side of the road.

IMHO the widespread adoption of AWD has only made winter driving conditions less safe for the populace since so many people don't understand that crappy or poorly-chosen tires will negate any or all AWD benefits.

[GregL]

Since there is a strong consensus on this, one has to question whether the OP's original idea of an AWD vehicle without snow tires will achieve the desired results.
It's a common misconception, even among intelligent people here in the snowiest major city in the country. I've heard "I've got four-wheel drive, I don't need snow tires" so often I've lost count. Yes, an all-wheel drive vehicle will have extra traction to start in motion under slippery conditions. However, it won't be any more effective at turning or stopping than a two-wheel drive vehicle with similar tires. Snow tires bring more aggressive treads and different rubber compounds which are (IMO) even more important to turning and stopping than just starting. Some all-season tires are better than others in ice and snow, but none are better than dedicated snow/winter tires.

Greg

[NHAero]

I lived in west central NH for 35 years and only got stuck two times, driving a series of Honda Civics and Fits with four wheel snow tires and front wheel drive. A vehicle with all weather tires and AWD will go better than the cars I've had, but they won't turn or stop better. It wasn't happenstance that vehicles with AWD were far more likely to be found off the road than vehicles like mine (I learned that speaking with the police chief in my town.) It's true it's hard to drive in a foot of new snow with a Honda Fit though!

[gdw]

When SUV's started to become popular in urban New York and New England the towing services working the highways heading into ski country saw a big increase in business when it snowed. Friday nights were the busiest because folks were pushing it to get to their lodging so they could ski Saturday

[Ken Robb]

I got my license in Feb. 1959 in Chicago. We had a 1955 Ford Fairlane with 6.70x15 bias ply tires and we all usually got around ok when it snowed-------but slowly. On very rare occasions we used chains. In 1960 Dad got snow tires for the rear wheels and I don't remember using chains that year.
My pal attended CU in Boulder so he put studded snow tires on his 1965 Corvair Corsa: 140 BHP, 4 speed manual, Posi-Traction. I swear we could drop the clutch, floor it and speed away on snowy/icy pavement. Stopping it was ok but turning wasn't so easy. :-)

[bigman]

have an 20111 Outback I mount snows every year, wouldn’t do it any other way.
crazy improvement especially stopping.

[soulspinner]

My daughters Ford got out of a spot next to a jeep 4wd that couldn't. Half worn out all seasons on the jeep.. new snows on the 2wd ford.

[Ozz]

My daughters Ford got out of a spot next to a jeep 4wd that couldn't. Half worn out all seasons on the jeep.. new snows on the 2wd ford.

She should have offered him a tow...and asked him to video it so she could put it you YouTube!:rolleyes::fight:

[p nut]

Let’s not forget AWD comes in handy in more than just snowy weather. Any type of slick road surface can usually be navigated easier with AWD. Also, the ground clearance is typically better which makes backcountry road travel possible. I think the Subaru has almost as much clearance as a Wrangler. (~9”)

Mpg does take a hit. But again, my Outback got 33mpg highway. That’s not bad. As much as I drive, even compared to a vehicle getting 40mpg, that’s $100 difference annually. Maintenance hasn’t really been an issue either. I’ve never had a front drivetrain, diff, go out. Knock on wood. My folks bought their MDX new and now have over 240k. No issues, including the drivetrain.

For me, AWD is well worth it, considering the advantage in inclement weather and giving me access to the backcountry.

[Louis]

Mpg does take a hit. But again, my Outback got 33mpg highway. That’s not bad.

For those willing to go a bit smaller, I get 35 mpg / tank in my Impreza. (manual transmission, 2/3 highway, 1/3 surface roads, not much stop and go traffic). I was surprised by how well it does, and had I known, I would have probably gotten the WRX (which of course is worse).

[AngryScientist]

Let’s not forget AWD comes in handy in more than just snowy weather.

algae covered boat ramp.

people watched in hilarity as, in my younger years, i unhooked a jet-ski trailer at the boat ramp, proceeded to put my snow chains on my rear wheels, and pulled my jet ski out with my 2WD pick-up. fun times.

[jamesdak]

If there are 12 inches of snow on the streets most folks with common sense stay home until the roads have been cleared.

LOL, if I did that during a typical winter where I live I'd miss more work than I'd make.

My sidewalk during the winter of 2017.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/164898692.jpg

[bigman]

Thought I should follow up with what we ended up getting, picked it up this weekend from a dealer in Maine. Drives very nicely and is very quiet. Interior is very comfortable and plenty of room.
No idea how well the AWD will work but for my daughter loves it. Very reasonable lease deal.

[soulspinner]

Thought I should follow up with what we ended up getting, picked it up this weekend from a dealer in Maine. Drives very nicely and is very quiet. Interior is very comfortable and plenty of room.
No idea how well the AWD will work but for my daughter loves it. Very reasonable lease deal.

Got a buddy that wrenches Mazdas and Hondas. You wont have trouble in the winter.

[rwsaunders]

I recently bought a CR-V EX-L for my wife and we've put about 2,000 miles on it over the past three months. She absolutely loves it having driven two Odysseys since 1999. It's very quiet, handles well, great visibility and lots of room. She's been getting around 28mpg overall with 35mpg on a recent road trip to Columbus...not bad for AWD. The CVT transmission takes some getting used to and if you didn't tell me, I wouldn't know that it has a turbo.

I've driven the Mazda CX-5 and I liked the sportiness if there is such a thing for a compact crossover/SUV or whatever they want to call this category. In deciding between the two, we felt that the Honda was a little better appointed and the dealer that I have been going to for the past 20 years or so is only about 15-20 minutes away, and they worked with us on the sale. No financing breaks at the time as there was with the CX-5. In fact it was the only Honda model that didn't offer 0.9% financing, so that tells you something about the popularity of the vehicle.

Four more years and my last one is through college so I'm looking forward to treating myself to something a little sportier...maybe a decked out Prius...

[Black Dog]

I am close to pulling the trigger on a Tiguan but I like that it's a bit bigger. I drove a CX-5 and liked it but it doesn't support Apple Car Play, and that's almost a deal breaker for me. It did feel like a quality vehicle. I also drove a Honda CR-V and came close to doing one of them. Plus for the CR-V is fuel economy, which is quite impressive for the size and utility of the vehicle. I don't think I'd look at the Kia, based on a recent ride on a Kia which felt like a poorly engineered vehicle. It wasn't the Sportage, but rather the minivan.

As much as you want AWD, I recommend snow tires for a place like Maine regardless. AWD is no substitute for a set of true winter tires.

I currently live in Michigan and if I get one of these, I'll be investing in proper winter tires even though I too plan to get the AWD version.

This is great advice.

[hokoman]

Four more years and my last one is through college so I'm looking forward to treating myself to something a little sportier...maybe a decked out Prius...

Best comment!!!!