Kickstarter PM

[makoti]

Thoughts?
"Review":
http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/iq2-launches-kickstarter-cheapest-power-meter-yet-377554
Kickstarter page
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1468298434/cycling-power-meter-at-a-breakthrough-price

[Veloo]

Pushes out your Q factor quite a bit.
Just how robust is that Ti adapter?

You save 50 Euros per if you buy before it hits retail.
Having gone through several disappointing Kickstarters (one that I never even got), I'll wait for it to hot market and let others be guinea pigs.

[R3awak3n]

very cool, I am all for cheap power meters. I think that in 2-3 years time, we will finally have affordable PMs and that will let more people use and benefit from having one.

There is really no reason why these should not be cheaper right now.


I would hold on this just because kickstarter can prove to be spotty. Wasnt there a PM a few years ago that took wayyyyy too long to deliver, was a similar thing, good price but then took forever

[Veloo]

Yes, it was this one that never came to fruition.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/brimbrothers/the-worlds-first-wearable-power-meter-for-cyclists/posts/1717218

[MattTuck]

Remember the saga of Vector pedals. Took years to come to market, even after Garmin (with some considerable talent and bank) bought them.

I'd agree that they should be considerably cheaper. They are a couple of strain gauges in most cases, along with some electronics so it can talk to a head unit using low power blue tooth, or ANT+, both well understood standards today.

I'd probably buy a set of pedal based power meters if they were cheaper. Atleast those, you can swap between bikes if you need to. Cranks seems like a great idea if you're on one bike all the time, but terrible if you split your time between rigs.

[kramnnim]

Adds 32mm to Q factor? No thanks. Reliable power meters are already cheap.

[makoti]

Turns out DCRainmaker did a pretty intensive write up on this.
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2018/04/iq2-149eur-first-power-meter.html
TL;DR - Yeah, it'll probably happen based on meeting the main people involved, but it'll be late. And as of now, they are releasing NO data & don't have a working prototype.

[Avispa]

After visiting the SRM and Power2Max factories, I have come to the conclusion that there is really not enough resources available to make a reliable power meter cheaper at this point. By resources I mean, ways to find a solution and put all the pieces together, including the units themselves and a reliable support platform, good warranty and service channel, etc.

The best power meters in the market are still made in Europe and the USA, where labor wages among other things is not as terrible as China. Therefore their higher price. However, take a look a Pioneer. It is one of the cheaper alternatives and a solid one so far...

Aside from Pioneer, which is a huge company with a history in electronics, I have become very cautious about these cheaper options as they tend to turn out as major headaches. I have dived into some cheaper alternatives for other non-cycling related items and the high price has come out when I need to get the item serviced or obtain reasonable support. Many of us want a great product and a super cheap price, only to complain later that the company is unresponsive and takes forever to fix things.

With that said, I would also never use a pedal/spindle base power meter. It has been proven time and time again that that is one of the worse locations to measure power because there are way too many variables that could affect accurate measurement, one being just applying the wrong torque to the pedal spindle when mounting the pedal to the crank arm!

Finally, I believe this emphasis that PM manufacturers are putting on RIGHT LEG/LEFT LEG measurements these days is over rated, if not a gimmick a rider does not really need. The idea of a power meter is to measure forward motion as a whole piece of information. Yes, there are absolute cases when one may need to know what one leg is doing vs the other, but these are features that add cost and more variables for inaccurate information.

[berserk87]

Yes, it was this one that never came to fruition.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/brimbrothers/the-worlds-first-wearable-power-meter-for-cyclists/posts/1717218

That one stuck with me. I thought about laying out some cash for these. Glad I decided to hesitate. I remember a few folks on the forum losing cash on them.

[kj`]

I'm hype about an affordable power meter but... I want data if this is a lemon and I were to buy it I might as well have gone and bought the proven to be great high end one...

For me its gunna be a bit before I get one and at this point my best bet I think is suck up the cost and get a spider based one.

[MattTuck]

With that said, I will also never use a pedal/spindle base power meter. It has been proven time and time again that that is one of the worse locations to measure power because there are way too many variables that could affect accurate measurement, one begin just applying the wrong torque to the pedal spindle when mounting the pedal to the crank arm!


The new vector pedals (generation 3) allegedly don't need a torque wrench for install. Not coming from a technical background, I can see why measuring power at the crank is a better solution for actually measuring the power. But, when you consider the other factors like cost and convenience across bikes, I think it is a compromise that may be worth making.

[Avispa]

The new vector pedals (generation 3) allegedly don't need a torque wrench for install. Not coming from a technical background, I can see why measuring power at the crank is a better solution for actually measuring the power. But, when you consider the other factors like cost and convenience across bikes, I think it is a compromise that may be worth making.



Yeah, I'm with you on some points.... this topic can get pretty technical and off track faster than we can read the results of a workout! [emoji41]

Pedal based PMs measure power at different points during the crank revolutions and do not measure power lost in the drivetrain... so the numbers you'd get from them is always going to be lower or inaccurate.

One practical problem I see with any power meter is that many people have them just as an additional gadget on their bikes. But a power meter when used correctly is a great tool to help one exercise correctly (note I am not even using the words "train correctly").

There's plenty of information and discussion out there and it's fun to read from a geek standpoint. At the end of the day, PMs are just providing feedback from a physical/mechanical effort for us to get better at cycling. The problem comes when these devices fail and it is frustrating no matter the reason we have/use them.

[unterhausen]

every engineer thinks they can make a power meter until they actually have to convert the sensor data in real time.

[ultraman6970]

Isnt simpler just put the instrument between the shoe and the pedal?? is easier for a rider to deal with pedal stack IMO.

[unterhausen]

wasn't there an insole PM? I lose track

[makoti]

wasn't there an insole PM? I lose track

There was a wearable one. Went on your shoe, I believe.

[berserk87]

wasn't there an insole PM? I lose track

I think you are right. I recall a model that was built in to the sole of the shoe, just above the outer surface. It was a permanent fixture - you couldn't swap it or move it to another shoe. And like you, I can't remember the manufacturer or model name.

The model that went on the shoe was via the kickstarter campaign that fizzled. It's been referenced in this thread.

[Mark McM]

Pedal based PMs measure power at different points during the crank revolutions and do not measure power lost in the drivetrain... so the numbers you'd get from them is always going to be lower or inaccurate.

Many power meters measure torque on the crank arm or the spider - are you claiming there is power lost between the pedal and the crank arm or spider? The only place that it appears energy can be lost here is in the pedal bearings - but that's going to be a very, very small percentage of the total power (and that's only if force is measured on the pedal platform, instead of at the spindle, which how most power meter pedals work).

Also, how can the power measured at the pedal lower than power measured elsewhere (since all the power originates at the pedal)? Since the primary purpose of a power meter is to measure the power produced by the rider, wouldn't you want to measure it as close as possible to where the rider applies it?

[kramnnim]

Brim Brothers was between the sole and the Speedplay cleat, they abandoned the project because they couldn't get reliable data... LIMITS was the one that went between the pedal and the crank arm, adding to the Q factor...they did get to production but haven't heard much about them?

[berserk87]

Brim Brothers was between the sole and the Speedplay cleat

Ah - there we go. I forgot about the plate on between the sole and the cleat. I was only recalling the pod thingie on these that wrapped around to the top of the shoe and mounted on a velcro strap or something.

[weisan]

Picked up this PM earlier today at the co-op, don't even know what it is until I goggled it. Not sure if it works, will try installing it tonight.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/limits-the-world-s-smartest-cycling-power-meter#/

[rlanger]

Picked up this PM earlier today at the co-op, don't even know what it is until I goggled it. Not sure if it works, will try installing it tonight.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/limits-the-world-s-smartest-cycling-power-meter#/

Good luck with your Limits. This is why I will never back a PM on a crowdfunding sight (or pretty much any tech product for that matter):

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/limits-the-world-s-smartest-cycling-power-meter#/comments

I've only backed one product, the F3 Cycling out front mount, and while it was shipped a couple of months late, it's been a great product.

[weisan]

Good luck with your Limits. This is why I will never back a PM on a crowdfunding sight (or pretty much any tech product for that matter):

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/limits-the-world-s-smartest-cycling-power-meter#/comments

I've only backed one product, the F3 Cycling out front mount, and while it was shipped a couple of months late, it's been a great product.

I have been a product and project manager for many years both in the private and public sectors. I understand full well how product development cycles work and the pressure people are putting under. Kickstarter is a double-edged sword. There are risks to be taken as an early adopter. Yes! That includes being scammed out of your precious money. I always tell people...Don't Do It! If you Can't Afford to lose your pants. If you DO it...Do it with your eyes wide open.

My eyes are wide open on this one.

Risk?

Zero.

Why?

Price is right.

It's FREE. And I got time in my hands to play with this.

Just tested it.

Picked up the cadence but does not register any power readings. Even updated the latest firmware. Gonna email the LIMITS Team and ask them about this.

I enjoy this whole process. Not painful for me...at all.



http://alicehui.com/bike/Parts/IMG_6667.jpg

[weisan]

Just tried it again after updating the firmware and it's now working.

Next step: Set it up side by side with my Powertap and compare the two readings in real time.

Fun!