Campanolo Ultra-Torque cranks with no bearing clip?

[jpritchet74]

So I just found the Colnago Extreme-C frameset that I have been searching for for months so now I need to source all the parts to complete the build. I have 4 bikes right now (the new one will be #5) and I have 3 SRM cranksets. One is a Campagnolo 5-arm Ultra-Torque and the other 2 are Dura-Ace. I will be building this new frameset up with Campagnolo 10-speed and I would REALLY like to be able to swap the Campy SRM between my Colnago Extreme Power (the daily bike) with this new Colnago (the climbing bike).

Where this becomes an issue is the dam C-shaped bearing clip. With the SRM that thing is a complete bear to get on and off - whereas with normal Campy cranks it's pretty easy. There just isn't must room to get in there to unclip it.

My Dura-Ace cranks are super easy to move between bikes, but I would prefer to not use them on the Extreme-C.

The easy solution would be to get the gorgeous new SRM Origin for the bike, but at $2,000 that's just not going to happen. I am the definition of champagne tastes on a beer budget - which is why all of my bike stuff is ~10 years old. That's the only way I can afford nice stuff.

Any thoughts? Is there any way to safely setup the cranks without the bearing clip? Maybe using these washers instead of the wavy washer for the install?

http://roguemechanic.typepad.com/roguemechanic/2009/10/wavywasherectomy-the-ultratorque-fix.html

[Blown Reek]

I too run SRM power meters, and I had the exact same issue you had regarding the clip. With the SRM Campagnolo power meters, it's nearly impossible to remove the clip with the size of the PM. My solution? Don't run the clip at all.

Normally, I wouldn't advise it (because it has to be there for a reason, right?), but when I was running my 5-arm Campy SRM on a BB30 bike, I used the WheelsMfg BB30 to UltraTorque adapter. And you know what? That adapter didn't even have the holes to put the clip in. Since that was the design, I figured I'd run it and see how it turned out.

Since then, I've chosen to not run the clip on any of the Campagnolo adapters with either one of my SRM power meters (Campagnolo 4-arm and 5-arm) with no ill effects. It's worked on the WheelsMfg BB30 adapters, Parlee BB30 cups, as well as the BSA and BB86 Campagnolo cups. You still need the wave washer, though. Lose the C-clip and make your installation and removal easy!

[Blown Reek]

Oh, and I just read the link. Don't listen to that guy. He's convinced that there's a problem with the Campagnolo design. Use the wavy washer like Campagnolo says.

[jpritchet74]

This might be the best news I have heard today.

I hope that others agree with you!

[StephenCL]

Clipless for a long time on my SRM equipped campy bikes. No issues yet.

[bicycletricycle]

Never run the clips, no problems.

[rousseau]

I'm probably completely clueless, but I've never understood the point of that safety clip. I mean, once you've got the hirth joint tightened up, it's not like the entire crankset is at risk of sliding out. So what's the deal?

I am the definition of champagne tastes on a beer budget - which is why all of my bike stuff is ~10 years old. That's the only way I can afford nice stuff.

Heh heh, this is my MO exactly. Ten-year-old bike, ten-year-old Record componentry.

Edit: Actually, time flies. My stuff is now fifteen years old, come to think of it.

[jpritchet74]

Heh heh, this is my MO exactly. Ten-year-old bike, ten-year-old Record componentry.

Edit: Actually, time flies. My stuff is now fifteen years old, come to think of it.

But that stuff still works perfectly, right? To me that's the sweet spot of bike tech.

Both of my Cervelos (SLC-SL and P3C) are from 2008. All 3 of my Colnagos are from 2007-2008. The Record 10 speed groups on the Colnagos are from that same era too.

Sure the Colnago C64 is nice, but honestly I would rather have my Extreme Power and Extreme-C. Italian made tubes, great ride quality, good weight, AND the tubes aren't so thin that I worry about breaking it if I crash.

I am thrilled by the responses about the clip. This will save me buying another SRM. For now at least.

[FlashUNC]

I'm probably completely clueless, but I've never understood the point of that safety clip. I mean, once you've got the hirth joint tightened up, it's not like the entire crankset is at risk of sliding out. So what's the deal?



Heh heh, this is my MO exactly. Ten-year-old bike, ten-year-old Record componentry.

Edit: Actually, time flies. My stuff is now fifteen years old, come to think of it.

Because if the bolt fails in the joint, the clip is the cya from having the drive side arm come out and cause all sorts of problems.

[PSJoyce]

I've used Campy SRM's in Trek BB90 without the clip -- there's nowhere to fit it on this BB -- with zero problems.

[bigbill]

I understand the need to retain the drive side if the cinch bolt fails, but that seems very unlikely if you apply the correct torque and grease the bolt so it doesn't bind. The thing about those clips is they will corrode. I've been riding UT cranksets since late 2006 and I've had two clips break. I don't have any bikes with anything other than BSA or ITA bottom brackets, but the fact that other standards don't use a clip says it all for me.

[oldpotatoe]

I too run SRM power meters, and I had the exact same issue you had regarding the clip. With the SRM Campagnolo power meters, it's nearly impossible to remove the clip with the size of the PM. My solution? Don't run the clip at all.

Normally, I wouldn't advise it (because it has to be there for a reason, right?), but when I was running my 5-arm Campy SRM on a BB30 bike, I used the WheelsMfg BB30 to UltraTorque adapter. And you know what? That adapter didn't even have the holes to put the clip in. Since that was the design, I figured I'd run it and see how it turned out.

Since then, I've chosen to not run the clip on any of the Campagnolo adapters with either one of my SRM power meters (Campagnolo 4-arm and 5-arm) with no ill effects. It's worked on the WheelsMfg BB30 adapters, Parlee BB30 cups, as well as the BSA and BB86 Campagnolo cups. You still need the wave washer, though. Lose the C-clip and make your installation and removal easy!

Cuz the design of the cups, the tolerances, are such that you don't need the clip.

Yup, a Bit@h to get in..you 'may' see some excessive/increased wear on the inside of the cups from bearing movement w/o the clip but lotsa grease in there and it's minimized.

Don't use the web guy's washers/spacers..he's a hack..

[bikinchris]

Who cares if the drive side crank comes out? The non drive side comes out too and there is no clip there. I put the clip in because that's how it was designed. That doesn't mean I think it is really necessary.

[bigbill]

Who cares if the drive side crank comes out? The non drive side comes out too and there is no clip there. I put the clip in because that's how it was designed. That doesn't mean I think it is really necessary.

Because it takes the chain with it and goons up an expensive frame. I use them but for the same reasons, because that's how they were designed.

[Plum Hill]

Rode with an old friend on his first outing on a NOS Paramount with Campy UT. Left crank arm loosened and came off. Luckily the Hirth joint bolt was still in the arm. Very capable mechanic, I think he got distracted and didn’t tighten the bolt. Right arm stayed in place. I’d hate to think of it drifting out and the large chain ring teeth gouging his ankle and calf.
Lesson learned. That was the only time it happened to him.
All of us are perfect until....

[Mark McM]

I'm probably completely clueless, but I've never understood the point of that safety clip. I mean, once you've got the hirth joint tightened up, it's not like the entire crankset is at risk of sliding out. So what's the deal?

The clip is not for safety, it is to keep the crank from sliding back and forth (laterally) in the bearings. The Ultra-Torque system uses a constant width between crank arms, and has no lateral pre-load adjustment (most integrated spindle cranks mount with a bearing pre-load adjustment). Since BB shells can have some variation in width, if the BB shell width is narrower than nominal, there will be lateral free-play, and the spindle will be able to laterally shift, sliding back and forth in the bearings. To prevent this, The clip locks the spindle in place.

If your BB happens to be exactly the right width, then the clip is unnecessary. But as it is unlikely that the BB is exactly the right width, the clip should be used. Riding without the clip may result in premature wear of the spindle/bearing contact surfaces.

[WESTMOTORSPORTS]

I had the same problem of very little clearance using a Campagnolo srm. To minimize the chance of the crankset moving latterly, which "did" affect consistent front eps derailleur performance by changing chainline , I omitted the clip and installed (2) of the wavy washers. 20k later, no problems. I have since changed to a power2max Campagnolo crankset. I now use the clip as there is sufficient room for installation and removal.

[bicycletricycle]

I agree with you, however, If you ride the cranks with no clip and no wavy washer they still rarely slide side to side (tried this out of curiosity). They just don't see much load in that direction. I know that I have no way to measure or even accurately observe the movement but even if you just push the crank side to side it is pretty hard. I am sure that you might see some slight increase in lateral play but it doesn't seem enough to worry about from a practical perspective.

The clip is not for safety, it is to keep the crank from sliding back and forth (laterally) in the bearings. The Ultra-Torque system uses a constant width between crank arms, and has no lateral pre-load adjustment (most integrated spindle cranks mount with a bearing pre-load adjustment). Since BB shells can have some variation in width, if the BB shell width is narrower than nominal, there will be lateral free-play, and the spindle will be able to laterally shift, sliding back and forth in the bearings. To prevent this, The clip locks the spindle in place.

If your BB happens to be exactly the right width, then the clip is unnecessary. But as it is unlikely that the BB is exactly the right width, the clip should be used. Riding without the clip may result in premature wear of the spindle/bearing contact surfaces.

[Calnago]

You guys are aware that there’s a special C-clip for use with the SRM Campy Powermeter right? Pretty impossible to install without it. It will sit lower and into the recess of the SRM spider so you can install it properly. I’ve actually just finished redoing a setup where some mechanic just swapped the cups (Italian, so you can actually put right on left side and left on right side), so that he could get the SRM crank on and just use the regular C-clip on the non drive side. It was a mess, and he had to omit the wavy washer and the edge of the drive side cup (which was now installed on the non drive side) was actually rubbing in the inside of the left crank arm.