Finally, a prosecutor take killing a cyclist seriously

[bikingshearer]

Just happened to see yesterday's report from VeloNews that Riverside County (CA) is charging a driver who killed a cyclist with murder. Not manslaughter. Not reckless driving. Not leaving the scene of an accident. Murder.

No doubt he will plead to something less (like manslaughter) to avoid the chance of a murder conviction, but the guy will do some serious time.

Thanks, Riverside County DA's Office. It's about time that prosecutors treat this crap seriously.


Here's the VeloNews report:

A southern California driver has been charged with murder after killing a cyclist and injuring another at the Tour de Palm Springs on February 10, 2018.

According to the Desert Sun, Ronnie Huerta, 21, was taken into custody on April 11, 2018 at his arraignment in Riverside County Superior Court.
Huerta was first arrested for vehicular manslaughter after the collision on Feb. 10, when he was driving at around 100 mph, according to other cyclists, down a stretch of road where the 100-mile race was taking place.
Mark Kristofferson, a 49-year-old from Lake Stevens, Washington was pronounced dead on the scene. Kristofferson’s girlfriend, who was riding with him, was also injured.

Huerta was reported to have had a history of reckless driving.

[Avispa]

Huerta was reported to have had a history of reckless driving.

This is the part that really kills me... that these people are still behind the wheel.

[vqdriver]

***?!?
That was my first century and i nearly did it again this year. I know exactly which road that is.

[oldpotatoe]

Just happened to see yesterday's report from VeloNews that Riverside County (CA) is charging a driver who killed a cyclist with murder. Not manslaughter. Not reckless driving. Not leaving the scene of an accident. Murder.

No doubt he will plead to something less (like manslaughter) to avoid the chance of a murder conviction, but the guy will do some serious time.

Thanks, Riverside County DA's Office. It's about time that prosecutors treat this crap seriously.


Here's the VeloNews report:

A southern California driver has been charged with murder after killing a cyclist and injuring another at the Tour de Palm Springs on February 10, 2018.

According to the Desert Sun, Ronnie Huerta, 21, was taken into custody on April 11, 2018 at his arraignment in Riverside County Superior Court.
Huerta was first arrested for vehicular manslaughter after the collision on Feb. 10, when he was driving at around 100 mph, according to other cyclists, down a stretch of road where the 100-mile race was taking place.
Mark Kristofferson, a 49-year-old from Lake Stevens, Washington was pronounced dead on the scene. Kristofferson’s girlfriend, who was riding with him, was also injured.

Huerta was reported to have had a history of reckless driving.

Murder requires premeditation..I haven't read the article but that's a stretch. I feel for the victim and family but I wonder what's the point of charging him with something that will be pled down.

PLUS, I cringe when it's implied that because the person hit was a cyclist, nobody 'takes it seriously', as in there is some conspiracy towards cyclists..they are hit and 'so what'..really doubt that. Not trying to defend attorneys or LEO who charge various drivers with this crime but...not an anti cyclist conspiracy as is implied. IMHO.

[smontanaro]

Murder requires premeditation..

Only first degree though? (IANAL)

[NHAero]

I think this can be generalized to state that incidents of motor vehicle-caused deaths of non-motorists, whether pedestrians or cyclists, continue to be noted as "accidents" no matter how reckless the driver is, and are generally not prosecuted. It's not a conspiracy, but it is a inherent bias in LEOs and the court system in general. In most Euro countries AFAIK a motorist that causes an injury or death to a non-motorist is presumed to be at fault.



Murder requires premeditation..I haven't read the article but that's a stretch. I feel for the victim and family but I wonder what's the point of charging him with something that will be pled down.

PLUS, I cringe when it's implied that because the person hit was a cyclist, nobody 'takes it seriously', as in there is some conspiracy towards cyclists..they are hit and 'so what'..really doubt that. Not trying to defend attorneys or LEO who charge various drivers with this crime but...not an anti cyclist conspiracy as is implied. IMHO.

[Avispa]

I was driving around a few days ago and I saw this sign in front of a used car dealership....
What good can we expect of a system that facilitates certain people the right to get behind the wheel of a possibly deadly machine?
There's simply little driver education, little willingness from law makers to make better, clear laws and apply them.
To get a car and license in the US is way too easy!


Translation:
APPROVED!
No Credit
Bad Credit
No Social Security
No License


Note the bus stop sign under their sign; it was actually hit by a car leaving the dealership I was told!

[oldpotatoe]

I think this can be generalized to state that incidents of motor vehicle-caused deaths of non-motorists, whether pedestrians or cyclists, continue to be noted as "accidents" no matter how reckless the driver is, and are generally not prosecuted. It's not a conspiracy, but it is a inherent bias in LEOs and the court system in general. In most Euro countries AFAIK a motorist that causes an injury or death to a non-motorist is presumed to be at fault.

I don't have the data but I don't agree that they are "generally not prosecuted"..if the driver is clearly reckless or careless. I think the punishment received is disappointing but if a reckless driver hurts a non driver..pretty sure they'll get some punishment.

I've seen more than a few posts(not yours) where it was implied because the person hurt or killed was on a bike, then nobody took it 'seriously'..is all.

[GregL]

Glad to see more DAs pressing murder charges for these egregious crimes. Then are finally coming around to seeing that these drivers exhibit "depraved indifference" to human life. No, I'm not a lawyer nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

Locally, a particularly gruesome recent collision ( I refuse to call it an "accident") likewise led to murder charges: http://www.syracuse.com/crime/index.ssf/2018/03/from_strip_club_to_86_mph_before_fatal_occ_crash_w hy_saccone_was_charged_with_mu.html. Let's hope these types of prosecution continue. Driving isn't a right, it's a privilege to be executed safely, within the law.

Greg

[NHAero]

That's an interesting charge - "depraved indifference murder" - so it seems that premeditation is not required for the charge.

Glad to see more DAs pressing murder charges for these egregious crimes. Then are finally coming around to seeing that these drivers exhibit "depraved indifference" to human life. No, I'm not a lawyer nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

Locally, a particularly gruesome recent collision ( I refuse to call it an "accident") likewise led to murder charges: http://www.syracuse.com/crime/index.ssf/2018/03/from_strip_club_to_86_mph_before_fatal_occ_crash_w hy_saccone_was_charged_with_mu.html. Let's hope these types of prosecution continue. Driving isn't a right, it's a privilege to be executed safely, within the law.

Greg

[54ny77]

That is mind-boggling.

The other day driving around I saw this sign in front of a used car dealership.
What good can we expect of a system that would facilitate certain people to get behind the wheel of a possibly deadly machine?
Just to be clear, I mean there's little driver education, little willingness from law makers to make better, clear laws and apply them.


Translation:
APPROVED!
No Credit
Bad Credit
No Social Security
No License


Note the bus stop sign under their sign!

[benb]

I think this can be generalized to state that incidents of motor vehicle-caused deaths of non-motorists, whether pedestrians or cyclists, continue to be noted as "accidents" no matter how reckless the driver is, and are generally not prosecuted. It's not a conspiracy, but it is a inherent bias in LEOs and the court system in general. In most Euro countries AFAIK a motorist that causes an injury or death to a non-motorist is presumed to be at fault.

It's only "not a conspiracy" cause it's out in the open and accepted. The current state is the result of a dedicated effort by the auto lobby starting in the early 20th century to set up an environment where everyone was expected to drive cars everywhere and bad behavior in an auto would be treated as an accident and not negligent behavior.

It's documented all over the place. When cars were first invented this climate did not exist. Drivers were treated really harshly at first when killing people and cities put in really strict speed limits and rules for cars. The auto lobby had to work really hard to remove everyone else from the road and create the expectation that it was never the car/driver's fault.

[ultraman6970]

The idiot was driving with a suspended license and cited in court a few times aswell... yeah he deserves to go to jail for a very long time IMO.

http://www.kesq.com/news/man-charged-in-deadly-tour-de-palm-springs-crash-had-suspended-license/701248089

[sandyrs]

The other day driving around I saw this sign in front of a used car dealership.
What good can we expect of a system that would facilitate certain people to get behind the wheel of a possibly deadly machine?
Just to be clear, I mean there's little driver education, little willingness from law makers to make better, clear laws and apply them.


Translation:
APPROVED!
No Credit
Bad Credit
No Social Security
No License


Note the bus stop sign under their sign!

Three of these four have absolutely nothing to do with one’s ability to operate a motor vehicle and I don’t think it’s a stretch to assume that #4 is a reference to documentation status, not inability to pass one’s driving test. But I’m obviously not familiar with this particular dealership.

[sandyrs]

Also OP would you mind posting a link to the article?

[54ny77]

you can rightfully assume that no license, no social and no (or bad) credit that driver ain't carrying insurance either. they shouldn't be on the road, period.

i've been hit once by an uninsured motorist. not a fun process.

Three of these four have absolutely nothing to do with one’s ability to operate a motor vehicle and I don’t think it’s a stretch to assume that #4 is a reference to documentation status, not inability to pass one’s driving test. But I’m obviously not familiar with this particular dealership.

[a4a]

We have a horrible culture of prepare people to drive. 15-year-olds get a permit and a full license shortly after that (15 1/2 or 16). I lived in Germany for a while and it took a LOT of time, a LOT of instruction, and a LOT of money to get a license. And if you violate the law, the consequences are severe. A license is a privilege, not a right and until we start treating driving as a privilege we'll keep having tragedies like this.

[Black Dog]

We have a horrible culture of prepare people to drive. 15-year-olds get a permit and a full license shortly after that (15 1/2 or 16). I lived in Germany for a while and it took a LOT of time, a LOT of instruction, and a LOT of money to get a license. And if you violate the law, the consequences are severe. A license is a privilege, not a right and until we start treating driving as a privilege we'll keep having tragedies like this.

We, in North America are way behind Europe on all aspects of driver training and driving culture and law. Way behind.

[Mr. Pink]

I was driving around a few days ago and I saw this sign in front of a used car dealership....
What good can we expect of a system that facilitates certain people the right to get behind the wheel of a possibly deadly machine?
There's simply little driver education, little willingness from law makers to make better, clear laws and apply them.
To get a car and license in the US is way too easy!


Translation:
APPROVED!
No Credit
Bad Credit
No Social Security
No License


Note the bus stop sign under their sign; it was actually hit by a car leaving the dealership I was told!


Thanks for introducing a nice spoonful of racism and anti immigrant hysteria to this discussion. Well done.

[ultraman6970]

Many of the old people driving now a days here would not get a driver license if they were living in europe or south america.

Took me virtually 40 minutes (because had to wait) to get a driver license here. In my country took me from 8am all the way till 2pm between tests, machines and going out driving in the street test, time waiting for my turn included.

[ERK55]

Many of the old people driving now a days here would not get a driver license if they were living in europe or south america.

Took me virtually 40 minutes (because had to wait) to get a driver license here. In my country took me from 8am all the way till 2pm between tests, machines and going out driving in the street test, time waiting for my turn included.

94 year old gentleman came to my office today. I asked: how did you get here?
He said: well I drive myself but I probably shouldn’t.

[djg21]

Murder requires premeditation..I haven't read the article but that's a stretch. I feel for the victim and family but I wonder what's the point of charging him with something that will be pled down.

PLUS, I cringe when it's implied that because the person hit was a cyclist, nobody 'takes it seriously', as in there is some conspiracy towards cyclists..they are hit and 'so what'..really doubt that. Not trying to defend attorneys or LEO who charge various drivers with this crime but...not an anti cyclist conspiracy as is implied. IMHO.

Each state has its own laws, and the elements of the crime of murder vary from State to State. You need to look at the applicable State laws. Based on a minute or so of internet research, it appears that in California, murder is defined as the taking of a human with “malice aforethought.” “Malice aforethought" means the killer "with wanton disregard for human life, does an act that involves a high degree of probability that it will result in death." CA Penal Code 187. In other words, you can be convicted of murder in CA if you engage in extremely reckless behavior that results in someone’s death.

The killer here was driving 100 mph on a road that was not just being ridden on by cyclists, but on which a race was being held. Every race I have been in where the roads were not closed to traffic has has “Bike Race in Progress” and marshalls in day-glo vests with orange flags everywhere. Even if the road didn’t have signage or marshalls, driving 100 mph where you know cyclists to also be on the road smacks of extreme recklessness. If the driver was at all impaired, the prosecution would be a slam-dunk.

If the driver was driving closer to the posted speed limit, whatever it was, and had hit cyclists because he was distracted, this probably would be prosecuted as something less than murder.

[Avispa]

Thanks for introducing a nice spoonful of racism and anti immigrant hysteria to this discussion. Well done.

Dear Mr. Pink:

You are welcomed.

Let me however, inform you that I am an Spanish/Hispanic immigrant and only became aware of what racism is, when I came to this country many years ago... So the hysteria you are referring to, must have been ingrained on certain people's mind long ago, not just after January 3, 2005. I have members of my family that are blacks*, mulattoes* and mestizos*.

*please note the omission of politically correct labels; we never used them in the country were I came from. And we all got along quite well... As a matter of fact, we had black senators, mestizo presidents and mulatto congress people, long before there was one elected in the USA!

With that said, I should explain that I came to this country because I believed it was a country of laws and a country where people knew how to respect the rights of others. While living here, it would have never crossed my mind to drive a vehicle without a license or break the law and drive one without all the prerequisites mandated by law to do so. This would have set a terrible example not only for my family but for any immigrant that would have follow my footsteps.

Oh, by the way, I also made certain to arrive here legally with all the documents required by the laws of this great country! I couldn't have done it any other way. I was aware as I am still are, that breaking the law would have set a terrible example, not only for my family but for any immigrant that would have follow my footsteps. Oh my, did I just repeat myself?

I posted the picture to illustrate a case of how bad things are here and how we, as a group of intelligent individuals, need to collaborate to make things right. I also wonder had I taken a picture of the opposite side of the sign, which was in English, if the reaction would have been the same?

Do you realize that the driver that killed and injured the cyclists has a Hispanic last name? I wonder if like me, he ever thought that his reckless behavior would have set a terrible example not only for his family but for any immigrant that would have follow his footsteps... It is people like him that are introducing racism and hysteria to our dialogue.

It is not the respectful and conscious, law abiding person, be it an immigrant or not!

Respectfully yours,

Avispa (wasp in Spanish, by the way)

[HenryA]

Dear Mr. Pink:

You are welcomed.

Let me however, inform you that I am an Spanish/Hispanic immigrant and only became aware of what racism is, when I came to this country many years ago... So the hysteria you are referring to, must have been ingrained on certain people's mind long ago, not just after January 3, 2005. I have members of my family that are blacks*, mulattoes* and mestizos*.

*please note the omission of politically correct labels; we never used them in the country were I came from. And we all got along quite well... As a matter of fact, we had black senators, mestizo presidents and mulatto congress people, long before there was one elected in the USA!

With that said, I should explain that I came to this country because I believed it was a country of laws and a country where people knew how to respect the rights of others. While living here, it would have never crossed my mind to drive a vehicle without a license or break the law and drive one without all the prerequisites mandated by law to do so. This would have set a terrible example not only for my family but for any immigrant that would have follow my footsteps.

Oh, by the way, I also made certain to arrive here legally with all the documents required by the laws of this great country! I couldn't have done it any other way. I was aware as I am still are, that breaking the law would have set a terrible example, not only for my family but for any immigrant that would have follow my footsteps. Oh my, did I just repeat myself?

I posted the picture to illustrate a case of how bad things are here and how we, as a group of intelligent individuals, need to collaborate to make things right. I also wonder had I taken a picture of the opposite side of the sign, which was in English, if the reaction would have been the same?

Do you realize that the driver that killed and injured the cyclists has a Hispanic last name? I wonder if like me, he ever thought that his reckless behavior would have set a terrible example not only for his family but for any immigrant that would have follow his footsteps... It is people like him that are introducing racism and hysteria to our dialogue.

It is not the respectful and conscious, law abiding person, be it an immigrant or not!

Respectfully yours,

Avispa (wasp in Spanish, by the way)

What a wonderful response.
Thank you.

[bikingshearer]

Also OP would you mind posting a link to the article?

Ask and ye shall receive. A little late, but ye shall receive.
http://www.velonews.com/2018/02/news/driver-arrested-after-killing-cyclist-in-california-charity-ride_457045

[Fivethumbs]

This type of homicide is sometimes referred to as "depraved heart" murder.

[cinema]

Thanks for introducing a nice spoonful of racism and anti immigrant hysteria to this discussion. Well done.

pretty sure this is a joke right.

I was hit by a no insurance dude a couple years ago... in a bike lane nonetheless. I wasn't seriously injured but did take a good hit and in fact someone called an ambulance. the driver was a poor immigrant driving his girlfriends car with no insurance or license and while i could have sued him i ended up just asking for the price of the gear he trashed. we both got pretty lucky (him moreso imo) and i don't necessarily regret not ruining his life by suing him. it took him weeks to pay me for the front wheel that blew up and the kit i was wearing but in the end he ended up paying me back. some aren't as fortunate, on both sides, to walk away from an incident like that relatively unscathed.

[Mr. Pink]

I'm not sure what your point is. Sounded like everything turned out ok.

[93KgBike]

Thanks for introducing a nice spoonful of racism and anti immigrant hysteria to this discussion. Well done.

I think you just introduced racism and xenophobia into this thread; and foot into mouth.

[Black Dog]

pretty sure this is a joke right.

I was hit by a no insurance dude a couple years ago... in a bike lane nonetheless. I wasn't seriously injured but did take a good hit and in fact someone called an ambulance. the driver was a poor immigrant driving his girlfriends car with no insurance or license and while i could have sued him i ended up just asking for the price of the gear he trashed. we both got pretty lucky (him moreso imo) and i don't necessarily regret not ruining his life by suing him. it took him weeks to pay me for the front wheel that blew up and the kit i was wearing but in the end he ended up paying me back. some aren't as fortunate, on both sides, to walk away from an incident like that relatively unscathed.

You were being too nice. Being an immigrant is no excuse for breaking the law the way that guy did. What about the next person he hits and injures and that person has zero chance of being taken care of for serious injuries and the ripple effect that has on that person's family and life. A law suit can not force water out of a stone, if they guy is broke there is no money to compensate, that is the very nature of why we all need to be insured. Did you get the feeling that what happened with you stopped this guy from doing it again? Then again, to be fair, being charged may not have had that effect either.

[ultraman6970]

I think like avispa and im in the same boat than him also, everything by the book. But sadly there is more bad examples moving around than good ones apparently because those are the only ones we hear about. The system itself is so broken that is really hard to get the bad examples out, and sadly those bad examples do not give a jack about anything aswell.

2 months ago, 7/11 close to me at 10 pm went for a coke, a couple of dudes in the 7/11 parking lot in a civic drinking beer inside and 2 empty cans dropped outside of the car, windows down aswell, clearly were drunk discussing something very loud in a tuesday night and with a baby sleeping in back sit.

911 call... no idea if they got them or not but that shows you how much they care and as avispa said, bad examples are all over the place. They do not care, and between you and me no matter how much you try to help them or expose them to things, the RAM chip can be programed just once for some.

My neighbor next door had 3 cars totaled in 10 years by dudes driving drunk, no documents, noinsurance and with cars that were not even theirs... no matter in which side of the coin you are, it is impossible not to generalize because those are affecting the good ones big time, believe me... the ones that do everything by the book and I know a lot of them are just tired too...

[cinema]

You were being too nice. Being an immigrant is no excuse for breaking the law the way that guy did. What about the next person he hits and injures and that person has zero chance of being taken care of for serious injuries and the ripple effect that has on that person's family and life. A law suit can not force water out of a stone, if they guy is broke there is no money to compensate, that is the very nature of why we all need to be insured. Did you get the feeling that what happened with you stopped this guy from doing it again? Then again, to be fair, being charged may not have had that effect either.

thanks, i think perhaps you're right. not really sure what could have happened if i had pressed charges. who can know? i didn't mean to say because he's an immigrant he gets to flaunt the law.

he was terrified and shaking walking out of the car, i also left a big imprint on the passenger side door of his girlfriends car who i'm pretty sure won't be letting him borrow it anymore after that incident. it's likely she had insurance for another driver but i didn't really get into it, since i was lucky enough to walk away with minor injuries. the checks for my bike and clothes were coming from his girlfriends parents account, and he hand delivered them to me at my place of work... i think the guy was in the doghouse for a while. who really knows if pressing charges would limit future behavior unless someone is incarcerated and just unable to continue being a bonehead in real life.

[Black Dog]

thanks, i think perhaps you're right. not really sure what could have happened if i had pressed charges. who can know? i didn't mean to say because he's an immigrant he gets to flaunt the law.

he was terrified and shaking walking out of the car, i also left a big imprint on the passenger side door of his girlfriends car who i'm pretty sure won't be letting him borrow it anymore after that incident. it's likely she had insurance for another driver but i didn't really get into it, since i was lucky enough to walk away with minor injuries. the checks for my bike and clothes were coming from his girlfriends parents account, and he hand delivered them to me at my place of work... i think the guy was in the doghouse for a while. who really knows if pressing charges would limit future behavior unless someone is incarcerated and just unable to continue being a bonehead in real life.

I did not think that you meant that being an immigrant gave him a pass nor did I mean to imply that being an immigrant should mean a stricter set of rules. Situations like yours are nuanced and what people choose to do is very much conditionally dependent.

People are good or bad because of who they are not where they are from. In Canada at least, immigrants as a whole commit less crimes than Canadian born citizens. A few bad people give the majority a bad name.

[Tony T]

Did cinema say the driver had no insurance or license?
While it's admirable that he (or his girlfriends family) reimbursed him for his loss, I doubt that this incident prevented the driver from getting behind the wheel again.

Not sure if giving this guy a pass was the right thing to do, but I probably would have done the same if uninjured.

BTW, when you say "In Canada at least, immigrants as a whole commit less crimes than Canadian born citizens.", that is a meaningless statistic, and one that most likely applies to every counrty

[Mr. Pink]

I think you just introduced racism and xenophobia into this thread; and foot into mouth.

Xenophobia is a cool word, but, do you know what it means, and how it relates to this discussion?

[Mr. Pink]

A few bad people give the majority a bad name.

That was sort of my point, but, not, maybe, how you meant that.

[Black Dog]

Did cinema say the driver had no insurance or license?
While it's admirable that he (or his girlfriends family) reimbursed him for his loss, I doubt that this incident prevented the driver from getting behind the wheel again.

Not sure if giving this guy a pass was the right thing to do, but I probably would have done the same if uninjured.

BTW, when you say "In Canada at least, immigrants as a whole commit less crimes than Canadian born citizens.", that is a meaningless statistic, and one that most likely applies to every counrty

Ok, look at the following link to a peer reviewed study that fleshes out my "as a whole" statement. Essentially any immigrant group has lower crime rates and also has a net effect on decreasing crime rates. BTW, it seems that the same effect takes place in the US too.

https://crdcn.org/immigrants-and-crime-evidence-canada