Yikes

[oldpotatoe]

Ever wonder why I exercise so much independent thinking (I like clamping my top tube on the bike stand) ?


:eek:glad decent bike shop wrenches are ‘herd’ thinkers:eek:

[muz]

I have to admit I often do that with my steel bikes, using a shop towel inside an adjustable Park clamp. I only do it for simple tasks like oiling the chain or adjusting the brakes. I put the bike on the clamp so it's balanced, then gently close the clamp so it doesn't slide.

[cmbicycles]

:eek:glad decent bike shop wrenches are ‘herd’ thinkers:eek:

:confused: Either something is missing, or I think one of us might need another cup of something caffeinated this morning... then Robert is your mother's brother. :p

[bicycletricycle]

clamping any tube of a frame is against the rules.

[grognaak]

I have a Park Tool Home Mechanic Stand. The manual states that clamping of the tube is acceptable so long as excessive force is not applied and the frame is not too thin or carbon fiber. Am I wrong to do this on a steel bike? I've been doing this for years, and the bike is still functional as far as I can tell. I only clamp it enough to not slide around under modest pressure and am careful to avoid the cable braze-ons. I haven't noticed any damage to the paint, but the finish is a little weathered anyway. I guess there's no reason not to just clamp the seatpost--that's the point, right? I suppose I will reform my errant ways.

https://www.parktool.com/assets/doc/product/PCS-10_instructions.pdf

[GOTHBROOKS]

yes you are wrong to do it

[FlashUNC]

Never, ever, ever, ever clamp a bike on the top tube.

[fiamme red]

:confused: Either something is missing, or I think one of us might need another cup of something caffeinated this morning... then Robert is your mother's brother. :phttps://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2348820&postcount=75

[eBAUMANN]

It's so easy to NOT do that, I don't know why anyone would...pure laziness I guess.

[unterhausen]

whatever happened to that patented bar that went parallel to the top tube so you could clamp it in a stand?


The first frame I ever built had the impression of a park stand clamp in the seat tube before I even got it painted. :(
that was back when everybody always just clamped by the seat tube with one of those ubiquitous red rags to protect the paint.

[cmbicycles]

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2348820&postcount=75
Thanks for the context... it's been one of those Mondays.

[eBAUMANN]

Come to think of it...I sold both of my stands a couple months back and just build bikes on the floor these days ;)

I will say though, the bb supported stands (prs-21 and the like) are really the best way to go, I always hated clamping even the seatpost.

[mhespenheide]

Are we talking about the lever-action clamp, or the screw-style clamp? Because I'll admit to clamping the top tube of older steel bikes with the screw-style clamp. There's no way I'm tightening that down hard enough to damage a tube.

(At least I don't think so. Enlighten me if I'm wrong...)

[Slamcarneyson]

Had a wrench interview at our shop once way back when and their test was a surly LHT build. The first thing they did was pull the frame out of the box, and put the seat tube in the park clamp stand. They proceeded to force that clamp shut with such speed and force the service manager didnt have time to stop them and that was the last time we saw that frame, or that potential wrench. That was a learning experience for everyone hahaha.

[eBAUMANN]

Are we talking about the lever-action clamp, or the screw-style clamp? Because I'll admit to clamping the top tube of older steel bikes with the screw-style clamp. There's no way I'm tightening that down hard enough to damage a tube.

(At least I don't think so. Enlighten me if I'm wrong...)

So here is why I dont like clamps on tubes OR posts (and vastly prefer the BB supported/fork mount stands):

When working on a bike, there is inevitably a certain amount of movement/shifting that will happen. Even with a rag in between the clamp and the bike, all it takes is a few tiny pieces of dirt/whatever inside that rag to scuff/scratch up the finish on your post/bike. Ive seen it happen enough times that I just straight up stopped using clamp-based stands unless I absolutely HAD to.

[Lewis Moon]

Anyone know if the Feedback Scorpion bottom bracket stand would work on Campy cranks? Looks like an elegant solution for a portable stand.

https://cdn3.volusion.com/n9g24.e5uwf/v/vspfiles/photos/FS17-SCORPION-2PC-5.jpg

[Mark McM]

Never, ever, ever, ever clamp a bike on the top tube.

Why not? Doesn't it depend on what you're doing to the bike (and how firmly it is clamped)?

As mentioned by others, if you are doing something simple (and low force) like lubing a chain or adjusting a brake, there shouldn't be any problem (lightly) clamping the top tube. I often do that for simple, low force tasks with my steel bikes - it really just amounts to resting the bike on the lower jaw of the clamp, and then closing the clamp just enough to keep the bike from falling out of the jaws. I don't do this with my carbon bikes, nor do I do it for any operations that require any significant force applied to the bike.

[GOTHBROOKS]

hang the bike off the clamp by the nose of the saddle.
you cant clean and lube the chain while the wheels are on the ground?

[bigbill]

Back in the late 80's, I remember a shop mechanic taking special care to clamp a Trek carbon monocoque style frame by the aluminum seatpost. He took the front wheel off and while setting it down, the bars turned and the bar end punched a hole through the frame.

But, yeah, even though all my frames are metal, I use a Park PRS 20 work stand.

[FlashUNC]

Why not? Doesn't it depend on what you're doing to the bike (and how firmly it is clamped)?

As mentioned by others, if you are doing something simple (and low force) like lubing a chain or adjusting a brake, there shouldn't be any problem (lightly) clamping the top tube. I often do that for simple, low force tasks with my steel bikes - it really just amounts to resting the bike on the lower jaw of the clamp, and then closing the clamp just enough to keep the bike from falling out of the jaws. I don't do this with my carbon bikes, nor do I do it for any operations that require any significant force applied to the bike.

Because it is a completely unnecessary risk. And if you're just lubing the chain, I'm assuming you've got a seatpost in the thing already. There's really no excuse.

Seatpost or nothing.

[benb]

My bikes get scratched up from riding so I'm not going to worry about scratches on either tubes or seatposts. Too much worrying about preserving bikes/collecting bikes/flipping bikes here sometimes.

I clamp my Carbon Trek on the seat mast topper as the shop/company says to go ahead and do so, the top of the seat mast is apparently reinforced and I'd apparently have to crush the topper + mast, unlikely to happen. That seat mast is actually already scratched up from riding with a saddle bag anyway. and I imagine if I didn't have the saddle bag my legs would probably polish the seat mast topper a little too.

And I do clamp my All City Space Horse top tube with a rag very carefully. That bike likely has really thick tubes and it's not hard to set my park stand up to not clamp it very hard. That bike has a Carbon seat post without enough room to clamp the post without changing the seat height. I'd rather clamp the top tube than risk messing up the seat height.

That said it's annoying to clamp on the top tube anyway because of the way the bike can rotate when you're working on it. Having it rotate around the seat post is way less annoying IMO.

[eBAUMANN]

My bikes get scratched up from riding so I'm not going to worry about scratches on either tubes or seatposts. Too much worrying about preserving bikes/collecting bikes/flipping bikes here sometimes.

Personally, I dont care if my bike gets scratched up from normal use but it does bother me when it gets scratched up in stupid, avoidable ways.
Especially road bikes...because there is really no reason road bikes should get beat up.

As far as resale value goes, I look forward to a day when I can afford to not give a f*ck about what I'm able to re-sell my stuff for...but I do.
Some people buy a bike and ride it as-bought for a decade.
I admire those people, but I am not those people (and neither are most of you).
The reality is, we all like to change parts around and try new stuff pretty regularly, so I try to keep my stuff in as nice of shape as possible so its easier for me to sell when I want to try something new.

[Mark McM]

hang the bike off the clamp by the nose of the saddle.
you cant clean and lube the chain while the wheels are on the ground?

I've seen a number of bikes damaged when they fell because they weren't securely attached.

Not only is it more convenient to clean the drivetrain when it is higher off the ground, cleaning the cassette and pulleys is easier with the rear wheel removed.

[Mark McM]

Because it is a completely unnecessary risk. And if you're just lubing the chain, I'm assuming you've got a seatpost in the thing already. There's really no excuse.

Seatpost or nothing.

2 of my bikes have too little seatpost exposed to fit in a work stand clamp.

And be careful when you make your statements absolute, because you will almost always be wrong.

[GOTHBROOKS]

haha ok.

[benb]

Personally, I dont care if my bike gets scratched up from normal use but it does bother me when it gets scratched up in stupid, avoidable ways.
Especially road bikes...because there is really no reason road bikes should get beat up.

As far as resale value goes, I look forward to a day when I can afford to not give a f*ck about what I'm able to re-sell my stuff for...but I do.
Some people buy a bike and ride it as-bought for a decade.
I admire those people, but I am not those people (and neither are most of you).
The reality is, we all like to change parts around and try new stuff pretty regularly, so I try to keep my stuff in as nice of shape as possible so its easier for me to sell when I want to try something new.

FWIW I don't think I've ever actually scratched a bike in the stand regardless of what I clamp to.

Honestly you list Quincy as your location, sorry man, road bikes get beat up riding them in Massachusetts, you of course know what our roads are like.

You sign up for some "must ride" event and the weather turns bad and there's junk in the road, etc.. and bam your bike is scratched.

Heck I have a nice scratch on the seat stay of my Trek. Had it a month and someone kicked a stick into my chain and broke the derailleur.. oops scratch on the seat stay, nothing to be done about it.

Same thing with the chain stay.. awfully hard to not eventually have some slap around here with our potholes. Head down in a group of people you're going to miss some eventually. That'll scratch up the chain stay after a while.

It's pretty easy to stop worrying about this stuff and just ride a bike till it's used up. You just have to be content with what you have and not worry about what other people have or what else you could have.

[benb]

2 of my bikes have too little seatpost exposed to fit in a work stand clamp.

And be careful when you make your statements absolute, because you will almost always be wrong.

And then there are those aero seatposts. Have fun trying to clamp those.

[GOTHBROOKS]

or you could buy the aero clamps for your park stand.

[72gmc]

2 of my bikes have too little seatpost exposed to fit in a work stand clamp.

Same with my bike.

After looking up the price of an alternate (smaller) clamp from Park I'm thinking of taking a hacksaw to my existing clamp. It's only an issue of the length of the metal jaws behind the rubber.

[cadence90]

The only thing more silly than clamping a frame by the top tube is to then also photograph the hell out of the clamped frame, post the photos online, and then claim to be close to being "really radically super special" because of all that.

As if there isn't still cancer to cure; hunger to stamp out; illiteracy to end; Bono to ego-joust with; etc., etc....

Boh. :confused:.:rolleyes:
.

[eBAUMANN]

Honestly you list Quincy as your location, sorry man, road bikes get beat up riding them in Massachusetts, you of course know what our roads are like.

You sign up for some "must ride" event and the weather turns bad and there's junk in the road, etc.. and bam your bike is scratched.

Yes, I've lived in Boston for the past 14 years, been riding for 10 of em. If its sh*tty weather outside (like today), I just don't ride.
Because riding in sh*t weather isn't fun, and cycling is supposed to be fun...right?

As far as "must-ride events" around here...I can't think of any that I'd grab a road bike for.
Everything "must-ride" (for me at least) involves dirt, at which point I'm grabbing my cx bike.

Hell, I ride my CX bike all fall/winter/spring as my road bike for exactly the reasons you mention.


Same thing with the chain stay.. awfully hard to not eventually have some slap around here with our potholes. Head down in a group of people you're going to miss some eventually. That'll scratch up the chain stay after a while.


This is not really a "given" for everyone.
For example, I probably go for group road rides maybe 3 times a year and I never paceline behind people...ever.
If I can't see the road ahead of me, I'll tail off the back or sit on the front.

As far as slap is concerned, I use chain stay protectors, clutch RD's on cx bikes, and dont ride my road bike in the little ring (when slap damage is most likely) unless climbing (not hitting a lot of stuff unexpectedly...).


It's pretty easy to stop worrying about this stuff and just ride a bike till it's used up. You just have to be content with what you have and not worry about what other people have or what else you could have.

Easier said than done my friend ;)

-----

I guess my point is, everyone has their own approach to how they use/abuse their equipment...and that's ok.
If someone spends $1k+ on paint for their custom frame (any MANY people here have), i'd say its perfectly reasonable for them to NOT want it to get F'd up in a G-D work stand clamp.

[Mark McM]

And then there are those aero seatposts. Have fun trying to clamp those.

Ironically, my carbon frame has a compact geometry with a tapered squarish shaped top tube, and it also has an aero (teardrop shape) seatpost. Even if I thought it was a good idea to clamp any of the carbon frame tubes (I don't), there's no tube with a uniform shape that would fit well in the jaws of my Park workstand clamp. But the clamp works perfectly well with the constant cross-section aero seatpost, and because the compact geometry has leaves a long enough exposed seatpost, I always clamp this bike by the seatpost.

[FlashUNC]

2 of my bikes have too little seatpost exposed to fit in a work stand clamp.

And be careful when you make your statements absolute, because you will almost always be wrong.

Then buy a stand that mounts at the BB.

Bad habits are bad habits. There are options out there to keep any too tube clampers from needing to do something that needlessly risks damaging their bike.

These threads are great reminders who not to buy used equipment from. Well, these and the "you can use the same pads on carbon and alloy rim" threads. And the "grease the tapers" threads.

[benb]

I think with the carbon it's really up to what the manufacturer says is OK.

I had a BH with a teardrop seat tube.

The LBS I bought it from (ATA in Concord) had a special work stand for aero/teardrop seat tubes and they clamped it in there before along with all the other super expensive bikes they sell.

I never actually clamped that bike because I couldn't figure out a safe way to do so. I'd actually rest the top tube in the clamps with a towel but not actually close the clamp. It was less than ideal, but I didn't have the bike long enough to end up with a different stand. At the time I was going to get one of the stands that uses the fork dropouts + BB.

But I destroyed the bike (my fault) and I'm glad I never clamped the top tube because the carbon top tube was *incredibly* thin. Like 1/10th the thickness of a carbon handlebar or fork steerer.

[benb]

Yes, I've lived in Boston for the past 14 years, been riding for 10 of em. If its sh*tty weather outside (like today), I just don't ride.
Because riding in sh*t weather isn't fun, and cycling is supposed to be fun...right?

As far as "must-ride events" around here...I can't think of any that I'd grab a road bike for.
Everything "must-ride" (for me at least) involves dirt, at which point I'm grabbing my cx bike.

Hell, I ride my CX bike all fall/winter/spring as my road bike for exactly the reasons you mention.



This is not really a "given" for everyone.
For example, I probably go for group road rides maybe 3 times a year and I never paceline behind people...ever.
If I can't see the road ahead of me, I'll tail off the back or sit on the front.

As far as slap is concerned, I use chain stay protectors, clutch RD's on cx bikes, and dont ride my road bike in the little ring (when slap damage is most likely) unless climbing (not hitting a lot of stuff unexpectedly...).



Easier said than done my friend ;)

-----

I guess my point is, everyone has their own approach to how they use/abuse their equipment...and that's ok.
If someone spends $1k+ on paint for their custom frame (any MANY people here have), i'd say its perfectly reasonable for them to NOT want it to get F'd up in a G-D work stand clamp.

Well really, a lot of the previous $1k+ paint job bikes probably just don't get ridden that much and stay inside in all but the best weather so they don't have to worry about it.

If it's more fun to have a shiny prize possession than to actually go have some great riding experiences to each their own.

I don't even enjoy a bike till it's got some "mojo" I guess. If I haven't been through something crazy on it then it doesn't do much for me.

[benb]

Then buy a stand that mounts at the BB.

Bad habits are bad habits. There are options out there to keep any too tube clampers from needing to do something that needlessly risks damaging their bike.

These threads are great reminders who not to buy used equipment from. Well, these and the "you can use the same pads on carbon and alloy rim" threads. And the "grease the tapers" threads.

Saying this kind of thread indicates who you should or shouldn't buy used equipment from is somewhat funny. The people who just use their stuff and don't worry about it much are not the ones constantly selling stuff, so you're not really ever having to worry about buying stuff from us.

I've been riding 18 years. I'd guess I've thrown out at least 20 worn out components for every one I ever ended up reselling. I've think I've broken more frames than I've sold. IIRC I've sold 2 frames that weren't really ideal for me. Only one of those was one I actually bought, the other one was a warranty replacement where they couldn't send me the exact same frame that failed. The replacement didn't even fit remotely the same. (Threadless headset replacement for a frame that came with a quill stem). Other than that I've sold a handful of saddles. Just about everything else I've ever bought went to the trash can/recycling when I was done with it.

[Black Dog]

Because it is a completely unnecessary risk. And if you're just lubing the chain, I'm assuming you've got a seatpost in the thing already. There's really no excuse.

Seatpost or nothing.

Well I have a steel bike with a c-record seat post. No clamp will hold that post. I just clamp it on the seat tube just below the seat cluster. It would take a vice to crush the tube with the post inside it at that spot. Sometimes there are some shades of grey in the black and white world. Sort of like Sagan....sorry i could not resist...;)

[oldpotatoe]

And then there are those aero seatposts. Have fun trying to clamp those.

A civilian now so don’t see aero posts but my clamp was one of those square type that was aero compatible.

[grognaak]

Sometimes there are some shades of grey in the black and white world.

Amen. Binary, yes/no, dogmatic answers have far less appeal than reasoned, evidenced arguments, don't they?

I can appreciate the logic of not clamping the tubes as a general principle, but there are many types of tubes, many types of clamps, and degrees of concern for equipment.

[FlashUNC]

Saying this kind of thread indicates who you should or shouldn't buy used equipment from is somewhat funny. The people who just use their stuff and don't worry about it much are not the ones constantly selling stuff, so you're not really ever having to worry about buying stuff from us.

I've been riding 18 years. I'd guess I've thrown out at least 20 worn out components for every one I ever ended up reselling. I've think I've broken more frames than I've sold. IIRC I've sold 2 frames that weren't really ideal for me. Only one of those was one I actually bought, the other one was a warranty replacement where they couldn't send me the exact same frame that failed. The replacement didn't even fit remotely the same. (Threadless headset replacement for a frame that came with a quill stem). Other than that I've sold a handful of saddles. Just about everything else I've ever bought went to the trash can/recycling when I was done with it.

Good for you then? I tend to keep frames for awhile too, its why I'd rather keep them around long term than be totally ham fisted and do something like clamp it at the top tube.

Well I have a steel bike with a c-record seat post. No clamp will hold that post. I just clamp it on the seat tube just below the seat cluster. It would take a vice to crush the tube with the post inside it at that spot. Sometimes there are some shades of grey in the black and white world. Sort of like Sagan....sorry i could not resist...;)

I'd still either get an aero clamp or swap the post if working on the bike, but that seems like a reasonable compromise.

And there's enough bewildering opinions in this thread, let's not drag Sagan into it for even more added silliness.

[guyintense]

The horror! The horror!

[OtayBW]

On my EL-OS bike, clamp on the TT?
HAARRRDY HAAARRR HAR!!! :bike:

[livingminimal]

The horror! The horror!

I know. I had the same reaction.
It's a Kestrel.

[Mark McM]

Good for you then? I tend to keep frames for awhile too, its why I'd rather keep them around long term than be totally ham fisted and do something like clamp it at the top tube.

Of the two (steel) frames I clamp by the top tube, I've been riding one for 27 years, but the other one I've only been riding 22 years. Neither has been crimped or damaged by the workstand.

[bward1028]

Had a wrench interview at our shop once way back when and their test was a surly LHT build. The first thing they did was pull the frame out of the box, and put the seat tube in the park clamp stand. They proceeded to force that clamp shut with such speed and force the service manager didnt have time to stop them and that was the last time we saw that frame, or that potential wrench. That was a learning experience for everyone hahaha.



No I sold that frame at the swap meet the next year. Some guy happily ended up riding cross country on it.

[seanile]

-_-
so i shouldn't be clamping my carbon bikes by their fork legs because all of their awesome aero-ness is not clamp friendly?


for y'all scratch-fearing folks. do what i do...get a new bike, scratch it on purpose to get it over with. then ride the **** out of it.

[livingminimal]

Clamp your bike however the hell you want. It isnt my bike.

personally I only do seatpost.

[Slamcarneyson]

No I sold that frame at the swap meet the next year. Some guy happily ended up riding cross country on it.

Damnnnn well Surly makes those bikes out of plumbing pipe so he was obviously fine.

[bward1028]

To be clear, he knew the whole story before he bought it. Almost verbatim to what you said. But remember, we all called her "THE CRUSHER" after that.

[93svt96]

No reason to really clamp . A light snugging is all that's needed to just hold the bike. I usually hold on the seat post , when I have one.