Tubeless trouble

[daker13]

I just tried to set up my first tubeless tire, and it's not holding air. Tire is a Schwalbe G-One on a Velocity A23 rim; seems like it's not holding air right around the valve. I used about 1/4 cup of Stans, which was what was recommended, but maybe a little light since this is a big tire. Or maybe it's something else.

Thanks for any assistance.

[eBAUMANN]

what kinda valves are you using? some work better with certain rims compared to others.

also make sure that the little internal rubber nub thingy stays correctly oriented while you are finger tightening the outer nut thingy BEFORE you mount the tire/sealant it up. sometimes they can turn internally if you try tightening them after mounting the tire and that could break the seal or create a gap.

is the tire definitely seated all the way around on both sides? you can try spraying the outside of the tire/rim with some soapy water to identify the location of an air leak(s) (bubbles where air is escaping).

as far as amount of sealant, i generally put a 2oz bottle of stans in each tire 32-40c) to start. seems to work pretty well. more as needed for larger tires.

[bigbill]

It's leaking around the valve because that's the path of least resistance. It's likely that your tape isn't sealing the spoke bed somewhere on the wheel, not necessarily near the valve hole. It's going to be a mess, but unless it seals you'll have to remove the tire, clean off the sealant, and re-tape. For tubeless, I typically seat the tire without sealant and check for gross leaks, then deflate, remove the core and add sealant.

If you have the Stan's syringe, you can unseat the tire and suck out most of the sealant to minimize the mess.

[eBAUMANN]

If you have the Stan's syringe, you can unseat the tire and suck out most of the sealant to minimize the mess.

i use an empty stans 2oz bottle like a turkey baster to suck up any liquid sealant, works great!

[daker13]

I think it's a Stans valve. Thanks for the tips, I'll give them a try.

[Cloozoe]

I have, no doubt, a twisted viewpoint, but if tubeless came first:

"Install tire on rim; squirt some goo in and shake/spin to spread it around. Hope for the best. Usually seals ok. Make sure you don't clog up the valve. Goo dries up eventually. Replace with new goo after first removing old goo from inside of tire/rim, which can be done, it's just kind of a pain in the ass."

Then, one day, some genius invented the inner tube!

"Instead of goo and all it's inherent problems, we present...The Inner Tube®! Think of it as goo that's been pre-solidified perfectly evenly for perfect wheel balance into a paper-thin toroidal sheath that forms a perfect seal --every time-- and never dries out! And, best of all, should it need to be replaced, simply remove the tire from the rim, peel out the old Inner Tube® --never sticks!can be done in two seconds! no scraping!-- replace with a new Inner Tube® (fits easily in a jersey pocket)and you're back in action! Weighs mere grams more than congealed goo and weight is distributed much more evenly!

Get with the program! Go Modern! Get you an Inner Tube® today!!

[eBAUMANN]

I have, no doubt, a twisted viewpoint, but if tubeless came first:

"Install tire on rim; squirt some goo in and shake/spin to spread it around. Hope for the best. Usually seals ok. Make sure you don't clog up the valve. Goo dries up eventually. Replace with new goo after first removing old goo from inside of tire/rim, which can be done, it's just kind of a pain in the ass."

Then, one day, some genius invented the inner tube!

"Instead of goo and all it's inherent problems, we present...The Inner Tube®! Think of it as goo that's been pre-solidified perfectly evenly for perfect wheel balance into a paper-thin toroidal sheath that forms a perfect seal --every time-- and never dries out! And, best of all, should it need to be replaced, simply remove the tire from the rim, peel out the old Inner Tube® --never sticks!can be done in two seconds! no scraping!-- replace with a new Inner Tube® (fits easily in a jersey pocket)and you're back in action! Weighs mere grams more than congealed goo and weight is distributed much more evenly!

Get with the program! Go Modern! Get you an Inner Tube® today!!

the issue is that most new rims these days are designed for use with tubeless systems, which means that it can actually be a huge pain in the ass to remove the tire (tubed or tubeless) from the rim should you get a flat in the middle of nowhere. setting the tire up tubeless with goo means that in the event of a tiny pin prick of a puncture (which causes probably 90% of tube'd tire flats, a moderate/slow leak) the hole will likely seal itself before you even notice it happened.

now, if you have a tube in that tire instead, it will slowly go flat and youll be plunged into a roadside battle with the tire/rim to get it off to fix your Inner Tube® (which you could still do with a tubeless system, if you had to). and then, when you finally rectify that situation, whats to say it wont happen again? and again...and again? setup tubeless, each one of those minor holes would get sealed without tire removal...tubed, each time a new battle on the roadside.

in summary - if you wanna used the latest and the greatest wheel tech, it means dealing with tubeless optimized gear. using tubes in those wheels will give you non of the benefits and all of the downsides, where-as setting them up tubeless out of the gate gives you none of that.

just my 2 Cents®

[clyde the point]

I will only add to this thread by stating, after just battling a new set of wheels that I am running tubeless (29'er) that cleaning the rim with lacquer thinner or something like that gets it spic and span.

When I installed the tape off this gigantic 50 yd roll I bought of ebeh I went very slowly and smoothed that tape out as well as I could, used a hair dryer to heat it up a bit, then let it sit overnight. Front sealed 1st round, rear required two. So far so good, really like the feel of the ride w/o a tube limiting the tire's natural deformation over terrain.

[Cloozoe]

See? Like I said; twisted.

[MikeD]

the issue is that most new rims these days are designed for use with tubeless systems, which means that it can actually be a huge pain in the ass to remove the tire (tubed or tubeless) from the rim should you get a flat in the middle of nowhere. setting the tire up tubeless with goo means that in the event of a tiny pin prick of a puncture (which causes probably 90% of tube'd tire flats, a moderate/slow leak) the hole will likely seal itself before you even notice it happened.

now, if you have a tube in that tire instead, it will slowly go flat and youll be plunged into a roadside battle with the tire/rim to get it off to fix your Inner Tube[emoji768] (which you could still do with a tubeless system, if you had to). and then, when you finally rectify that situation, whats to say it wont happen again? and again...and again? setup tubeless, each one of those minor holes would get sealed without tire removal...tubed, each time a new battle on the roadside.

in summary - if you wanna used the latest and the greatest wheel tech, it means dealing with tubeless optimized gear. using tubes in those wheels will give you non of the benefits and all of the downsides, where-as setting them up tubeless out of the gate gives you none of that.

just my 2 Cents[emoji768]


It is not true that mounting non tubeless tires on tubeless wheels is difficult. I use Shimano tubeless wheels and Continental 4000S non tubeless tires with tubes. It's no more difficult to mount/unmount these tires on these rims than on the non tubeless rims I've used. It's also nice that these rims don't use a rim strip, which I've had fail and cause flats in the past.

[John H.]

Check the tape- it is the likely culprit.

Could be hole cut to big at valve? Or maybe the tape split a bit at the valve hole.
I like to make the hole in my tubeless tape with a reamer. Burning it with a wood burner can also work- But you want a round hole that is as small as needed.

Could also be width of tape, or how tape was applied.
Remove old tape- Clean rim with acetone and re-tape. Take the time to make sure the tape stretches so that it adheres well and lays flat.
Also make sure that you are not doing this in a cold environment. If the temperature of the wheel and tape is too low- You may not get a good stretch and the tape may not stick well.

[middec11]

If you know where the issue is theres no need to retape the whole wheel. Just a short 2" strip right over the valve hole, poke a very small hole, then re-insert the stem and crank it down tight.

[charliedid]

I have, no doubt, a twisted viewpoint, but if tubeless came first:

"Install tire on rim; squirt some goo in and shake/spin to spread it around. Hope for the best. Usually seals ok. Make sure you don't clog up the valve. Goo dries up eventually. Replace with new goo after first removing old goo from inside of tire/rim, which can be done, it's just kind of a pain in the ass."

Then, one day, some genius invented the inner tube!

"Instead of goo and all it's inherent problems, we present...The Inner Tube®! Think of it as goo that's been pre-solidified perfectly evenly for perfect wheel balance into a paper-thin toroidal sheath that forms a perfect seal --every time-- and never dries out! And, best of all, should it need to be replaced, simply remove the tire from the rim, peel out the old Inner Tube® --never sticks!can be done in two seconds! no scraping!-- replace with a new Inner Tube® (fits easily in a jersey pocket)and you're back in action! Weighs mere grams more than congealed goo and weight is distributed much more evenly!

Get with the program! Go Modern! Get you an Inner Tube® today!!

Thank You one million times!

:D

[charliedid]

See? Like I said; twisted.

You have made my day

https://youtu.be/J1sYN0PuRs4

[eBAUMANN]

It is not true that mounting non tubeless tires on tubeless wheels is difficult. I use Shimano tubeless wheels and Continental 4000S non tubeless tires with tubes. It's no more difficult to mount/unmount these tires on these rims than on the non tubeless rims I've used. It's also nice that these rims don't use a rim strip, which I've had fail and cause flats in the past.

This claim (and mine) varies GREATLY with every tire and rim combo, fwiw.

Many non-road (32c+) tires ONLY come in a tubeless variant. Which is what the OP is dealing with.

[daker13]

Looks to me like the tape split around the valve. I didn't double up the tape, so maybe that contributed to it.

How snug should the valve be up against the tape? Seems like the tapes going to split if you push it in too far...

[eBAUMANN]

Looks to me like the tape split around the valve. I didn't double up the tape, so maybe that contributed to it.

How snug should the valve be up against the tape? Seems like the tapes going to split if you push it in too far...

it should be as close to an airtight seal as possible WITHOUT sealant.

what kinda tape are you using?
i usually just use gorilla tape (what enve sends with their valve kits)

[dem]

I'm using A23 and Velocity valves [EDIT: incorrectly called these Stan's] that look like these below, they seem to work a bit better than the round-pluggy kind, at least in the A23s. You can basically fully snug them up into the bottom of the rim/valve hole.

https://www.bikeparts.com/images1/pictures/vr/vr8002.jpg

Also you need TWO layers at high pressure (95+ PSI) - or it WILL blow through the spoke holes eventually.

Stan's tape is Tesa 4289 strapping tape, you can buy big roles on eBay usually.

[daker13]

Funny, I'm using Stan's valves too, but they don't look like the ones above. I actually think the tape I was using was too wide--looks like I should be using 21 mm tape with the A23's, so I ordered another roll.

Regular Gorilla tape? I read about people using that for their mountain bikes, maybe worth a try if I still have trouble with it.

[dem]

oops - these are Velocity valves, not Stan's. Sorry, I must have 6 different sets of valves for various wheels/depths/experiments.

And yes, 21mm is what you want on the A23. The rim tape width is also more critical on road tubeless as you want the bead to lock down the edge of the tape (without being so wide it gets up into the actual bead hook.)

Best of luck!

[johnniecakes]

I have, no doubt, a twisted viewpoint, but if tubeless came first:

"Install tire on rim; squirt some goo in and shake/spin to spread it around. Hope for the best. Usually seals ok. Make sure you don't clog up the valve. Goo dries up eventually. Replace with new goo after first removing old goo from inside of tire/rim, which can be done, it's just kind of a pain in the ass."

Then, one day, some genius invented the inner tube!

"Instead of goo and all it's inherent problems, we present...The Inner Tube®! Think of it as goo that's been pre-solidified perfectly evenly for perfect wheel balance into a paper-thin toroidal sheath that forms a perfect seal --every time-- and never dries out! And, best of all, should it need to be replaced, simply remove the tire from the rim, peel out the old Inner Tube® --never sticks!can be done in two seconds! no scraping!-- replace with a new Inner Tube® (fits easily in a jersey pocket)and you're back in action! Weighs mere grams more than congealed goo and weight is distributed much more evenly!

Get with the program! Go Modern! Get you an Inner Tube® today!!

Brilliant !!! Having tried tubeless I gave up and never looked back

[daker13]

I see how the tape would form an airtight seal, esp. after the sealant is added, but the valve doesn't seem like its ever going to be airtight in the tape, from what I can see.

[bshell]

Double wrap your tape, kinda no matter what.

After stretching/laying down tape (2 wraps!) you should make your valve holes by melting a round hole with a clipped spoke you held over a lighter. Make it slightly smaller than the diameter of your valve for a good fit.

Install a tube and a tire. Inflate it and leave it overnight --the pressure will push out any air bubbles in the tape and increase the likelihood of solid adhesion to the rim and itself.

Remove tire/tube. Install tubeless valve and crank down the knurled nut while pushing on the rubber grommet inside the rim.

Voila!

[fogrider]

I had a tubeless tire with a slow leak for weeks. I installed sealant twice and spun the wheel for a couple of minutes once a day for about a week. it's holding air now.

[daker13]

I had a tubeless tire with a slow leak for weeks. I installed sealant twice and spun the wheel for a couple of minutes once a day for about a week. it's holding air now.

As in, just added more sealant?

[bigbill]

Lot of anecdotal evidence. I've ridden 5000 miles since September, totally on tubeless tires, 25mm Panaracers on road wheels, 32mm Maxxis ReFuse on disc Altamonts, and 35mm Panaracer Gravel Kings on my gravel bike. No flats.

[bikinchris]

I have, no doubt, a twisted viewpoint, but if tubeless came first:

"Install tire on rim; squirt some goo in and shake/spin to spread it around. Hope for the best. Usually seals ok. Make sure you don't clog up the valve. Goo dries up eventually. Replace with new goo after first removing old goo from inside of tire/rim, which can be done, it's just kind of a pain in the ass."

Then, one day, some genius invented the inner tube!

"Instead of goo and all it's inherent problems, we present...The Inner Tube®! Think of it as goo that's been pre-solidified perfectly evenly for perfect wheel balance into a paper-thin toroidal sheath that forms a perfect seal --every time-- and never dries out! And, best of all, should it need to be replaced, simply remove the tire from the rim, peel out the old Inner Tube® --never sticks!can be done in two seconds! no scraping!-- replace with a new Inner Tube® (fits easily in a jersey pocket)and you're back in action! Weighs mere grams more than congealed goo and weight is distributed much more evenly!

Get with the program! Go Modern! Get you an Inner Tube® today!!

I have no interest in using tubeless. I don't get flats until my tire is useless and worn out. I get every penny out of them. Then I put a new tire and tube and repeat until THAT tire is worn out. The last 3 dozen or so tires on my bikes and another 3 dozen on my wife's bike. More on my tandem and hybrid.
If I need high performance, I will ride tubulars.

[fogrider]

As in, just added more sealant?I've heard that it helps to add in glitter into the sealant. But yeah, add sealant and spin the wheel.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[daker13]

One of the best things about my BMC is ducking into various local park trails for a circuit or two. But these being suburban park-type trails, there's a lot of thorns and broken glass, and I've gotten enough flats to think twice about whether the fun is worth it. So I want to try tubeless to see if I get better flat protection.



I have no interest in using tubeless. I don't get flats until my tire is useless and worn out. I get every penny out of them. Then I put a new tire and tube and repeat until THAT tire is worn out. The last 3 dozen or so tires on my bikes and another 3 dozen on my wife's bike. More on my tandem and hybrid.
If I need high performance, I will ride tubulars.

[oldpotatoe]

One of the best things about my BMC is ducking into various local park trails for a circuit or two. But these being suburban park-type trails, there's a lot of thorns and broken glass, and I've gotten enough flats to think twice about whether the fun is worth it. So I want to try tubeless to see if I get better flat protection.

Put sealant in your tubes...goat head in sidewall(?) of tire yesterday...pulled, a little sealant spewed out, sealed, continued. Added a bit more after ride. Vittoria tubular but works for clinchers.

[Black Dog]

Put sealant in your tubes...goat head in sidewall(?) of tire yesterday...pulled, a little sealant spewed out, sealed, continued. Added a bit more after ride. Vittoria tubular but works for clinchers.

Will the sealant dry and harden in the tube? I have thought about doing this but have held off because of limited life span of the sealant. Is there a solvent that can be put in the tube to flush the old sealant out?

[colker]

I have no interest in using tubeless. I don't get flats until my tire is useless and worn out. I get every penny out of them. Then I put a new tire and tube and repeat until THAT tire is worn out. The last 3 dozen or so tires on my bikes and another 3 dozen on my wife's bike. More on my tandem and hybrid.
If I need high performance, I will ride tubulars.

I don´t like the hastle of instalation as well but once you live and ride on cactus country tubeless is as necessary as oil on chains.

[oldpotatoe]

Will the sealant dry and harden in the tube? I have thought about doing this but have held off because of limited life span of the sealant. Is there a solvent that can be put in the tube to flush the old sealant out?

I only sealant a new tire so generally wear out tire before I see any sealant glump. Orange seal. Have a bottle of it that’s about 6 months old and still liquid in bottle.

[Tony]

I only sealant a new tire so generally wear out tire before I see any sealant glump. Orange seal. Have a bottle of it that’s about 6 months old and still liquid in bottle.

I've heard you mention this before, just doesn't happen with me. Must be the smaller volume of the tire and maybe the OS interacts differently with latex.
I have 5 bikes (mtbs) all tubeless and 2 oz of OS will dry out in less than 3 months in summer weather conditions, Stans a little longer.