Enve 3.4 Tubeless compatibilty

[nmrt]

So Guys, need your help here.
More than a month ago I purchased a set of Enve 3.4 clincher wheelset (with the new brake track) on paceline and assumed that the rims were tubeless compatible. Why did I assume that? Well, because on the ENVE website, they were describing the 3.4 clincher wheelset (with the new brake track) as being tubeless compatible.

I only found out yesterday that Enve made two versions of these rims with the newer brake track -- one version is tubeless compatible and the other is not. And it just so happens that my version is not.

So, here is my question -- can I buy tubeless tires (i actually already did when I did not know) and use them on these tubeless incompatible rims? Will I be making a mistake if I do? From my mountain biking experience I remember that one can make any rim tubeless by putting stans tape, tubeless valves, and tubless tires.

So, what would you do? Or better yet, have you used these 3.4 wheelset (where the rims are not tubless compatible) with tubeless tires successfully?

Thanks for the incoming wisdom. :banana:

[chiasticon]

So, here is my question -- can I buy tubeless tires (i actually already did when I did not know) and use them on these tubeless incompatible rims? Will I be making a mistake if I do? From my mountain biking experience I remember that one can make any rim tubeless by putting stans tape, tubeless valves, and tubless tires.that's generally not the case with road tubeless, from my understanding. and it can be quite dangerous if they fail. I wouldn't do it.

my recommendation would be to either run 'em as clinchers or sell 'em and try to find ones that can be run tubeless. bummer.

[nmrt]

Yeah, that is exactly what concerns me as well. IN mountain biking the pressures for me are around 20 psi and for road biking they will be around 50-85 psi. So, a big difference and if something fails, it would be a disaster.

But still, I was wondering if someone has done this successfully. If not, I can just buy some clincher tires and ride these wheels.

that's generally not the case with road tubeless, from my understanding. and it can be quite dangerous if they fail. I wouldn't do it.

my recommendation would be to either run 'em as clinchers or sell 'em and try to find ones that can be run tubeless. bummer.

[R3awak3n]

road tires run a LOT more pressure. I wouldn't do it.

sell the wheels and get some tubeless ones.

[ergott]

Word of caution. The tubeless version drops a lot of tension when tubeless tire is installed. Sometimes it's beyond the acceptable range and the rear wheel wheel will be incorrectly dished. Worst part, you can't tension and true after wheel is installed because of internal nipples.

If it were me I'd keep the wheels and just run them as clinchers with latex tubes.

[simplemind]

So, here is my question -- can I buy tubeless tires (i actually already did when I did not know) and use them on these tubeless incompatible rims? Will I be making a mistake if I do? From my mountain biking experience I remember that one can make any rim tubeless by putting stans tape, tubeless valves, and tubless tires.

So, what would you do? Or better yet, have you used these 3.4 wheelset (where the rims are not tubless compatible) with tubeless tires successfully?

Thanks for the incoming wisdom. :banana:

Ahh yes, another tubeless thread! ;)

I have the 3.4 ENVE's although the disk version, as well as a set of Vision 40's, neither of which are of "tubeless compatible" design. Yes, I run these tubeless and with almost zero issues. I say almost because in any tubeless system, there are more things that need attention than a tube system. That said, I consider it a trouble free ride and well worth the effort.
Neither of these wheelsets have the UST bead design, however it is incumbent that you use a tubeless designed tire. I run the 28mm Schwalbe Pro One's, and really like the performance and easy setup. I run these at 70-80 psi which improves the contact patch and traction, while giving a more comfortable ride. Just get a good valve stem, and two layers of Stan's tape, and Orange Seal Endurance sealant, and you're good to go.
Sometimes you may have to inflate with a tube and leave it overnight to get easier seating, and also you want to clip any molding nibs off of the bead that could interfere with the bead seating. That's about it.

[spinarelli]

+1 for latex tubes. They feel great. I'm running 28C Vittoria Corsa G+ with the pink latex tubes. The ride is very plush.

The downside is that you have to pump them up before every ride. They drop from 75psi to 40 psi over night. The other issue I had with the vittoria latex tubes was that they failed around the valve stem after not being used over the winter. Both front and back leaked air the first time I tried pumping the wheels up after 3 months of not being used. They are expansive and if they only last 1 year that kind of sucks. BTWI ran vittoria slime in them, pitstop i think.



Word of caution. The tubeless version drops a lot of tension when tubeless tire is installed. Sometimes it's beyond the acceptable range and the rear wheel wheel will be incorrectly dished. Worst part, you can't tension and true after wheel is installed because of internal nipples.

If it were me I'd keep the wheels and just run them as clinchers with latex tubes.

[batman1425]

Would not do it. Road tubeless is a different animal than MTB or CX where there is some wiggle room. For road use, purpose designed rims and tires is the only option IMO. Higher pressures, lack of a bead hook, the tension issue as Ergott mentioned. Having a tire blow off at road speeds isn't something I want to experience.

[bshell]

I'm pretty sure they all have a bead hook -which is interesting because I think MTBs went to *no hook* a while back. Just stronger, vertical walls. Don't know if that's still the case.

What the non-tubeless Enve 3.4 version might not have is the slightly elevated shelf that holds the deflated tire in place. I have the tubeless 3.4s and that 'shelf' is so-so at best, frankly.

Still, there has been no problem w/tension or dish and they ride great. The internal nipples will be an absolute pain in the ass if/when they require adjustment, what with the sealant and having to re-tape the rim bed. I rode the first version 3.4s with tubes (25mm tires @85 lbs) for 7-8 years on crappy roads and never had to adjust them. Thank jeebus.

I'm currently riding 25mm Pro One tires w/ 65 lbs of air pressure (sounds so strange for a RB) and it's been great. And I'm 185# myself. Thirty years ago I would put 110-120 lbs into 23mm tires (occasionally 20mm WTAF???).

[ergott]

Before tubeless rims were prevalent, lots of riders road tubeless tires on standard rims like Hed Belgiums or H+Son Archetypes using tape and valve. I have no personal experience with it, but I've never heard of a tire blowing off from this setup.

[Cat3roadracer]

Before tubeless rims were prevalent, lots of riders road tubeless tires on standard rims like Hed Belgiums or H+Son Archetypes using tape and valve. I have no personal experience with it, but I've never heard of a tire blowing off from this setup.

This was exactly my situation last weekend. Tubeless tire on a HED Belgium, not the + rim. The bead seated, but I could burp them by hand.

No go.

[WheelNut]

Take a look at your rim bed. If you have bead shelves it possible that you might be able to run tubeless. If there are no bead shelves then you definitely have no chance of running tubeless. The bead of the tire sits on the bead shelf and there is a seal created between the two. With non-compatible rims there is no surface for the bead of the tire to seal to (except the bead hook) which doesn't provide enough stability/support for a secure seal.

This is a cross section of a rim with bead shelves:
http://www.velocityusa.com/images/made/files/uploads/Aileron_1_425_450.png
http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/aileron-622

This is a cross section of a rim without bead shelves:
http://www.velocityusa.com/images/made/files/uploads/Fusion_1_354_450.png
http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/fusion-622

[ergott]

This was exactly my situation last weekend. Tubeless tire on a HED Belgium, not the + rim. The bead seated, but I could burp them by hand.

No go.

Thanks for the input

[nmrt]

I think mine does NOT have the bead shelf. Mine is the one on the right even though it is the "new" gen 2 enve with the gen 2 brake track.


Take a look at your rim bed. If you have bead shelves it possible that you might be able to run tubeless. If there are no bead shelves then you definitely have no chance of running tubeless. The bead of the tire sits on the bead shelf and there is a seal created between the two. With non-compatible rims there is no surface for the bead of the tire to seal to (except the bead hook) which doesn't provide enough stability/support for a secure seal.

This is a cross section of a rim with bead shelves:
http://www.velocityusa.com/images/made/files/uploads/Aileron_1_425_450.png
http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/aileron-622

This is a cross section of a rim without bead shelves:
http://www.velocityusa.com/images/made/files/uploads/Fusion_1_354_450.png
http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/fusion-622

[OldCrank]

<<< lots of riders road tubeless tires on standard rims like Hed Belgiums >>>

I am now one of those lots; converted my Belgium + wheels.
Pulled off Hed's tape, wrapped with Stan's, popped in a valve, put on Pro Ones.
23mm tires on the Plus rims turns them into 25mm pretty much.
They seated really easily, with just a floor pump. This was a concern, because there are some pretty vicious slicey things out on the road and I want to be able to swap tires mid-ride if need be.

No pressure loss in 2 weeks.:banana::hello::banana: