Should I upgrade from Campy Record 10 or not?

[a4a]

Hello all... I just joined the forum. Long time, 52 year old cyclist who was a SLOW Cat 4 at my peak (haven’t raced in forever and don’t plan to). Since 2002 I’ve ridden a Serotta Concours. I originally built it with DA and a number of years ago I swithed to Campy Record 10. Of course it’s a great component set. I’ve been looking at new bikes and DI2 seems to be loved by all. I keep going back to the fact the my Serotta fits perfect, is in pristine shape with premium bits (Chris King, Thomson Masterpiece, Mavic K’s, etc), and rides like a dream. At 17 lbs and change it’s not a pig but a couple of pounds less wouldn’t hurt. I ride in the foothills and mountains of SC and NC.

So... should go with a new bike, upgrade the Campy, or stay with what I have?

[El Chaba]

There is no upgrade from Campagnolo record 10 speed.....

[R3awak3n]

You can stay with what you have right now and be perfectly happy. 17lbs is not a bad weight. New campy would not give you that much less weight. You would benefit from 1 more gear, in my opinion better shifter ergonomics (not everyone thinks this though) and the ability to use any 11 speed wheelset.

I think a better upgrade for that bike is in the wheel department. I don't know what you have now but some lighter, wider wheels with some nice tires would go a long way.

A new bike is always fun though, not necessary but its a bike forum. If you stick with steel, you may be able to drop some pounds but not a lot, if you want a trully light bike carbon is a better material. And you could put new campy on it, or di2 or etap.

[a4a]

Thanks for the insight. I know the cost benefit of a new bike is probably not there. But the wheels... that’s a thought. I’m running Mavic Kysrium SL now. I need to go research my options on wheels. The Mavics have been stellar over the years but they have age on them.

[thirdgenbird]

I would keep the bike and the group. Upgrade to a killer set of hand built wheels and some fresh tires. Maybe white industries hubs to corima rims. Also get a fresh Campagnolo cable set and fresh bar tape (if both aren’t already new)

[oldpotatoe]

Hello all... I just joined the forum. Long time, 52 year old cyclist who was a SLOW Cat 4 at my peak (haven’t raced in forever and don’t plan to). Since 2002 I’ve ridden a Serotta Concours. I originally built it with DA and a number of years ago I switched to Campy Record 10. Of course it’s a great component set. I’ve been looking at new bikes and DI2 seems to be loved by all. I keep going back to the fact the my Serotta fits perfect, is in pristine shape with premium bits (Chris King, Thomson Masterpiece, Mavic K’s, etc), and rides like a dream. At 17 lbs and change it’s not a pig but a couple of pounds less wouldn’t hurt. I ride in the foothills and mountains of SC and NC.

So... should go with a new bike, upgrade the Campy, or stay with what I have?

Unless you spend YUGE $, it's going to be tough to lose 2 pounds of that bike, maybe not even be possible.

Components are consumables..if you like the shape of the ERGO, no need to upgrade(plus small bits/lever parts/cogsets readily available)..di2 or EPS isn't going to make you any faster.

Remember, to be a better cyclist, 4 things.
-Bike fit
-Riding fitness
-Fat, lack thereof on you
-finesse..riding/training/racing smart.

[Spaghetti Legs]

I am near same demographic as you (50 y, former Cat 4 hero, foothills, mountains VA) and I would vote no to 11. I like the ergonomics of the 11 a little better but that’s about it. I’ve found the FD much more finicky to adjust. I don’t think you’ll realize a noticeable weight savings, if any but I don’t know the numbers on that.

I think the Ksyriums are a pretty light wheelset, but if not, that would be the simplest way to shed a little weight and spruce up the ride. I have a set of Zipp 202’s that are a great all around set and come in somewhere around 1350 g. It’s always nice to have a backup wheelset too if you don’t already.

17 ish pounds is pretty good and you’re not going to improve a lot on that without spending a lot of cash. If you’re happy with your bike why change? (N +1 always applies though!) I have a 15 lb bike that definitely goes faster, especially up hills but I do t race anyone really except myself and I’m perfectly happy riding the steel bikes up the mountain too.

[carpediemracing]

Hello all... I just joined the forum. Long time, 52 year old cyclist who was a SLOW Cat 4 at my peak (haven’t raced in forever and don’t plan to). Since 2002 I’ve ridden a Serotta Concours. I originally built it with DA and a number of years ago I swithed to Campy Record 10. Of course it’s a great component set. I’ve been looking at new bikes and DI2 seems to be loved by all. I keep going back to the fact the my Serotta fits perfect, is in pristine shape with premium bits (Chris King, Thomson Masterpiece, Mavic K’s, etc), and rides like a dream. At 17 lbs and change it’s not a pig but a couple of pounds less wouldn’t hurt. I ride in the foothills and mountains of SC and NC.

So... should go with a new bike, upgrade the Campy, or stay with what I have?

Note: I always think of 100g (or 110g to be a bit more accurate) to be a quarter pound there. Like the saying goes, 100g, 100g there, and soon you're talking about real weight.

Second note: having picked all the low hanging fruit, I dieted and lost from same month prior year almost 40 lbs (in 2010). It didn't matter what bike I rode at that point, I was so much better than the prior year. So if you can work on losing weight then do so. I understand it's not the easiest - I've regained half that (20 lbs) and only got within 10 lbs of that number once in the past 8 years.

A tangent thought, looking at the "a couple pounds less wouldn't hurt" bit. Upgrading the component group is usually not a very efficient way of dropping weight, nor tires. From then until now the big differences can be had in things like the saddle (could be 100-200g or more), cranks (200-300g or more), bar (100g?), stem (100g depending), and wheels (200-400g?); I'm thinking real world stuff, not the crazy Lightweight wheels with 150g tubulars and such.

Frames can shed a lot of weight (my frame is 1200g, a super light frame might be 400-500 g less) but that's a huge upgrade cost-wise.

In addition, if you're looking to liven up the ride when you're not exploded (because once you go past the redline all bikes weigh 50 lbs and are as aero as a brick wall), wheels and tires would realistically make the most difference. If you climb out of the saddle then lighter weight saddle, post, bars will help reduce inertia when rocking the bike.

"Hidden" upgrades include shoes (nowadays you might lose 200g on the shoes alone) and helmet (100-200g).

Pedals aren't much lighter than they were back then. Ditto posts (I'm still riding the Thomson posts I first bought 20+ years ago).

I ride a 16 (+/-.2) lbs bike for racing, it's 17-19 lbs training (wheel weight difference for the aero clinchers is 3 lbs compared to the aero tubulars). The frame is no different in construction from what I rode in the late 80s, welded heat treated aluminum. Because of the bottom bracket (BB30) my cranks are very light, about 3/4 lbs less than a nice 10s Record crankset, but otherwise the components are Campy 10s. My wheels are okay light but compared to the old days they're pretty heavy (450g rims vs 300g rims). However they're more aero and realistically much faster in most situations I encounter.

[choke]

There is no upgrade from Campagnolo record 10 speed.....+11ty billion

[slinkywizard]

I would suggest getting some nice handbuilt tubulars...nice tires (Veloflex Vlaanderen for instance) for starters. The only reason to switch to 11 speed would be the shape of the ergo’s...though I prefer the way the shifting feels on the 10 sp.


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[zap]

Of course it’s a great component set. I’ve been looking at new bikes and DI2 seems to be loved by all. I keep going back to the fact the my Serotta fits perfect, is in pristine shape with premium bits (Chris King, Thomson Masterpiece, Mavic K’s, etc), and rides like a dream.

So... should go with a new bike, upgrade the Campy, or stay with what I have?

I've seen a lot of Di2 failures on various rides so far this year. I don't know what exactly is going on.....yet. Hope to hear back from two individuals from last Sunday's ride.

Upgrade............campy wheels.

[KJMUNC]

you can upgrade only if you sell me your old 10spd for a super low price since it's just junk :cool:

Seriously though, I have 9/10/11 speed Campy across my bikes and every time I ride my 10 speed Record I'm pleasantly surprised and think "wow, this is still such a great groupset".

Keep it....use Record groupsets sell for nothing these days and the upgrade isn't worth the price.

[cmg]

keep the 10 speed, it's more robust than the 11. light rims, light rim tape or no tape, light tires , then go to carbon bits, carbon crank, speedplay pedals/light pedals, carbon seat post, maybe carbon stem and bars, carbon bottle cages. then post a photo of the bike...........

[newellbt]

yes, absolutely upgrade :banana:

[FlashUNC]

Go 11. No more stupid g soring breakage. The ergonomics are better and the front shifting is much improved over 10.

You're asking if you should replace 15 year old parts. Of course.

[thwart]

I'd agree with the 'wheels and tires' folks above.

With wider 23 mm rims and some high end 25 mm (or 28 mm) tires, you won't lose significant weight (IIRC Ksyriums are ~ 1550 gms) but both the ride and cornering will be noticeably better. The older we get, the more fatigue we suffer from ride chatter/vibration.

If... I was riding with a really fast crowd I might try a used Parlee Z4 or Z5 carbon frameset, or something similar. You'd lose 2 lbs or so and would reap the psychological benefits of riding a UCI legal weight bike. If you didn't like the feel or didn't see benefits, you wouldn't lose much on flipping it. Along that same line, moving to a tubular carbon wheelset would be a big weight savings (~ 1 lb) but would necessitate embracing tubulars.

Electronic shifting? Haven't used it. From info here and folks I know, the biggest benefit is in FD shifting. If your experience is like mine with 10 spd Campy, there's really not a lot of room for improvement. I always like the 'keep it simple, stupid' philosophy. Especially with something I'm riding out in rural areas, frequently solo.

[jtbadge]

Personally, I'd run an 11 speed mechanical group from any of the 3 manufacturers, and some new wheels handbuilt to your specs. If your frame can't fit 26-28mm tires, keep it the way it is and get something modern to go with it.

[a4a]

Thanks a ton for all the feedback and advice... really helpful. So I’m going to keep the bike and Record 10. New wheels it is. I had a set of tubular back in the day for racing. Loved them. I’m just a little worried about getting out in the middle of nowhere (my longer rides are from Spartanburg, SC to Hendersonville, NC), flatting and struggling to get a spare remounted. But, hey... I can always call one of my 6 kids (3 racers) to come pick me up!

So, Should I start a new thread about which wheels or can you guys help me out here (again, new to the forum and don’t want to break protocol).

Someone mentioned Corima but are they too special to just ride on? What’s a good, lightweight-ish, responsive wheel to ride? I’m an (ahem) athletically-built (ready stocky) 5’9” 190. Again, if I need to start another thread let me know. And thanks in advance.

[taz-t]

I have two bikes with Record 10, so definitely a fan.

However, if you're interested in a change that might improve your riding experience consider looking for 10 speed Ergo shifters in the v3 shape.

I have a full Centaur 10 bike with alloy Ergo v3 levers and recently built a Concours with yet another Record 10 group, but 10sp Centaur carbon v3 shifters.

I think this Ergo shape is more comfortable than the v2 Record and the shifting feels a little lighter, which I prefer.

This, plus a new set of wheels like previously mentioned and you'll feel like you're on a new bike without giving up anything you like about you're current setup.

[uber]

I think it is hard to give up a nice riding frame that fits. I have Campy 11 now, but it honestly is not nicer than Campy 10 in terms of shifting smoothness. Tufo makes a 22mm tire that folds up pretty compactly for a spare. For robustness, it is hard to beat any Enve carbon tubular rims. I think Campy Bora 35 or 50 mm tubular are pretty light and would go well with your Campy 10. Anything lighter and more exotic might not have the durability you are asking for, but many swear by Lightweight. 22 or 23 mm tires will save weight over 25’s and larger at a comfort price you will decide on. F EE brakes will save some weight. Swapping out your Campy cranks for Clavicula will cost as well. Pedals? Good luck.

[SuperColnago]

There is no upgrade from Campagnolo record 10 speed.....
Awesome, what he said:banana:

[FlashUNC]

Thanks a ton for all the feedback and advice... really helpful. So I’m going to keep the bike and Record 10. New wheels it is. I had a set of tubular back in the day for racing. Loved them. I’m just a little worried about getting out in the middle of nowhere (my longer rides are from Spartanburg, SC to Hendersonville, NC), flatting and struggling to get a spare remounted. But, hey... I can always call one of my 6 kids (3 racers) to come pick me up!

So, Should I start a new thread about which wheels or can you guys help me out here (again, new to the forum and don’t want to break protocol).

Someone mentioned Corima but are they too special to just ride on? What’s a good, lightweight-ish, responsive wheel to ride? I’m an (ahem) athletically-built (ready stocky) 5’9” 190. Again, if I need to start another thread let me know. And thanks in advance.

Shamals. Go with the new C17 width and some nice tires.

And upgrade to 11.

[pjm]

Shamals. Go with the new C17 width and some nice tires.

And upgrade to 11.

+++ You won’t believe how much better the Shamals are than the K’s. I own both. They may be only smidge lighter, but the performance and ride are far superior.

[kansukee]

Um, Campy just came out with 12 speed. I have read up on it and the shifting is flawless so there's that.

[dsillito]

There is no upgrade from Campagnolo record 10 speed.....

...except for Campy record 9 speed. Still going strong. :hello:

[cadence90]

@OP: be very careful before you take anyone's "buy Shamal C17s!!" etc., advice and jump on the wide-rim-wagon.

Those, or any of the newer wide rim wheels, may not fit your ~2002 Serotta Concours. You should verify the frame and fork clearances first.
.

[oldpotatoe]

Um, Campy just came out with 12 speed. I have read up on it and the shifting is flawless so there's that.

Not really ‘here’, for sale till Eurobike/Interbike time +++.

[a4a]

@OP: be very careful before you take anyone's "buy Shamal C17s!!" etc., advice and jump on the wide-rim-wagon.

Those, or any of the newer wide rim wheels, may not fit your ~2002 Serotta Concours. You should verify the frame and fork clearances first.
.

Ahh... yes, definitely need to check fit. Thanks.

[teleguy57]

On wheels: since there are no more new Shamal tubulars available, unless you'd like to go carbon I'd talk with Oldpotatoe and have him build you a nice set of everyday tubulars based on your specific requirements. There are other good builders who also are sponsors here.

I won't tell you my specific experience with flats so as not to jinx myself, but for me it's been an almost non-issue. If it would be I carry a pre-glued spare that can be changed as fast or faster than replacing a clincher tube, and a while back when I did have a flat a valve-core remover and small bottle of Stan's, coupled with my seatstay-mounted frame pump, got me home just fine. On really long, remote rides I will carry two spares plus the sealant stuff in a Jannd dual. Never needed more than the belt -- the suspenders and whatever comes after that have never been called into play.

Oh, I have loaned a spare tubular tire to companions who have had multiple clincher flats and it got them home. Ditto with loaning someone without enough C02s my frame pump....

[Rafa]

Ahh... yes, definitely need to check fit. Thanks.

Ironically, I’ve been wondering about upgrades to my 2002 Serotta Legend, and my awesome mechanic suggested Shamals! The new wheels are at his place now, I’m going to check them out later tonight, so I’ll be able to tell you whether they fit an F1 fork later tonight.

[a4a]

Ironically, I’ve been wondering about upgrades to my 2002 Serotta Legend, and my awesome mechanic suggested Shamals! The new wheels are at his place now, I’m going to check them out later tonight, so I’ll be able to tell you whether they fit an F1 fork later tonight.

Great! I have an Ozuo Pro fork. I’ll have to look at the F1 to see if the spacing is similar.

[fiamme red]

There is no upgrade from Campagnolo record 10 speed.....True. Well, except maybe to Campagnolo Record 9 speed. :)

[jpritchet74]

Going from 10 to 11 or 12 would be a downgrade.

I am making the jump from 11 EPS to 10 and couldn't be happier!

[TexasJohn]

Let’s face it...we all spend too much money on bike parts. Since 2010 there have been so many 11 speed options available, and you can mix and match to find your optimum combination.

And the great thing is that you can use any 11 speed wheel set, with any cassette from ANY 11s manufacturer, not only the big 3; my recent purchase is a Miche cassette with Campy freehub.

For me, it’s all about bang for the buck. I just built up a new frameset with Campy Protons (Miche cassette), NOS Athena shifters from 2010 (yes, I got the Ultra Shift option), picked up the Athena derailleur, an almost new 4-arm Chorus crank from a forumite, and a KMC chain (yes, more cross compatibility), and dual pivot Athena brakes.

By the way, the shifting performance is like sex on wheels. Just do it.
Here a shameless and gratuitous photo for you guys and gals who were wondering...and for those who weren’t...blahhhh.

My two cents thrown in...

[Rafa]

Great! I have an Ozuo Pro fork. I’ll have to look at the F1 to see if the spacing is similar.

I’m happy to report that the Shamals fit right where the Mavics did. The brake track is obviously wider on the Shamals, but the overall width of the tire seems to be similar enough. I’ve heard that the F1 was notoriously narrow, so I would suspect they’d be fine with most others. Whew. Now to go ride them!

[a4a]

I’m happy to report that the Shamals fit right where the Mavics did. The brake track is obviously wider on the Shamals, but the overall width of the tire seems to be similar enough. I’ve heard that the F1 was notoriously narrow, so I would suspect they’d be fine with most others. Whew. Now to go ride them!

Sweet! Thanks!

[grognaak]

Campy Record 10 is awesome. I'd use that upgrade money to ride my bike in Europe, but that's just me.

[Hellgate]

I was in a similar situation last year, 53, former CAT3, 15 year old bike with R10. I changed to SR11, with Shamal Ultras. 5,000 miles later I couldn't be happier. Besides the old group had 10's of thousands of miles on it. I like having a 27 for a bail out gear, but keep the 12-25, I like the shifters better, and the whole bike feels tighter. Selling the old bits paid for about half of the new stuff. And it's interesting, almost every club ride someone comments on seeing an old bike with a new group. It's what all the cool kids are doing...

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[Ruimteaapje]

IMHO Campagnolo Record and Chorus 10sp are perfect for my long distance touring so I never cared about 11sp.

[donevwil]

I run Record 10 on all my bikes while my wife runs newer gen Centaur Ultrashift on all hers. I've ridden her bike a few times and my huge hands just don't work on the new lever shape. The flatness of the older levers in combination with flat ramped handlebar are my best solution. A friend whose downsizing his bike collection gave me a full Record 11 and partial Athena 11 group that I have no urge to use.

Plus Campy 10 has more readily available cassette options than 11 (for those who can't/don't do the Campy 11 with Shimano cassette thing)