Cat 3 banned -out of comp test

[pasadena]

good old Socal amateur racing..

https://cyclingtips.com/news/u-s-amateur-cyclist-dylan-lima-accepts-sanction-for-anti-doping-rule-violation/

[beeatnik]

Orange County is so weird.

[Black Dog]

Yep, ego in untrained hands can be a very dangerous weapon. The amount of cognitive dissonance needed to cheat like that and think that it is OK and to enjoy the spoils is amazing.

[Clean39T]

Amateur doping, it's not just for Masters anymore..

Err, yeah, the OC. California....here we cooome!


Going one tiny layer deeper:

Although the athlete’s medical records showed that testosterone was contained within a prescribed medication he was using, Lima lacked a valid Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE).

So, who knows what the real story was here. At least it wasn't EPO from across the border...

[FlashUNC]

I love that the description implies that he thought a valid scrip would be enough to not get slapped with a suspension.

[notsew]

I'm not gonna defend the guy, obviously doping at any level is bad and doping at that level is just, well, dopey, but I can envision a scenario where a cat 4->3 dude is maybe not fully up to speed on the intricacies of getting a TUE. Not saying he shouldn't have known, but seems reasonable to me he may not have considered it...

[GregL]

I'm not gonna defend the guy, obviously doping at any level is bad and doping at that level is just, well, dopey, but I can envision a scenario where a cat 4->3 dude is maybe not fully up to speed on the intricacies of getting a TUE. Not saying he shouldn't have known, but seems reasonable to me he may not have considered it...
You get the license, you're obligated to know the rules. No excuses. He was popped for an out-of-competition test, so he was likely targeted based on a tip or tips. Sayonara, Dylan.

Greg

[Lanternrouge]

I'm just wondering what he was doing that resulted in an out-of-competition test as a Cat. 3.

[jumphigher]

I just read the linked article. So is the implication in this thread that he was actually purposely doping, and this wasnt just the mistake of taking a legitmate medication and unknowingly breaking the rules?

Crazy that people would dope at the amateur level, but maybe that's how some people see themselves eventually getting to the professional level.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Faux bragging rights, it's an epidemic, imo.

[zross312]

Simultaneously unbelievable and also not at all unbelievable. I just checked up on the guy on Road-Results - I've never raced against him, but I know people who have. As always, when it hits this close to home, I'm forced to wonder how many other guys I know, or have raced against, or have been on the same group ride with are cheating too.

[beeatnik]

As always, when it hits this close to home, I'm forced to wonder how many other guys I know, or have raced against, or have been on the same group ride with are cheating too.

All the motivated ones.

[54ny77]

ahhh, a 20-something so. cal doping cat 3....

clearly living the dream. might even get 30% off his team kit with those big results. bro. dude. gnarly.

:p

[ripvanrando]

ahhh, a 20-something so. cal doping cat 3....

clearly living the dream. might even get 30% off his team kit with those big results. bro. dude. gnarly.

:p

And a 50% drop in NAD size

[ultraman6970]

28 y/o cat3?? dude did not make it in cycling man... why to dope? at that age he was better just continuing being a cat3 and going to school and having kids if the dude is not doing that already. Dumb people man...

Meanwhile Stephan kung is pretty much done for 2 months at least, the good news is that he will lose a lot of weight.

[fignon's barber]

I think the most pathetic part is that they actually wasted money on an expensive dope test on him, out of competition. Looks like this guy was Cat 4/5 pack fodder who did a grand total of 11 races over the last 5 years:
https://www.road-results.com/racer/93811

[earlfoss]

His results suck so it wasn't worth it

[fignon's barber]

His results suck so it wasn't worth it


The article alluded to him having some type of medical condition according to his medical records, he just didn't have the correct TUE ( maybe he should hire Froome's staff). He could be just an average Joe with a legit medical condition.

[andeww]

He used to work at one of my LBS, imagine that. OC is home of the S-works and 60 year old guys with abs.

[ripvanrando]

The 5th place and 2 upgrade points gave him away

[54ny77]

Come on, it's not doping, it's anti aging nutritional supplements.


He used to work at one of my LBS, imagine that. OC is home of the S-works and 60 year old guys with abs.

[PeregrineA1]

He used to work at one of my LBS, imagine that. OC is home of the S-works and 60 year old guys with abs.

I saw that guy last Saturday. Running in shorts, no shirt, 60+, ripped. Hah!

[pasadena]

Yes, he is does have a legit condition.
That condition is called cheating.

The fact it's Cat 3 makes it sad, but no less pathetic than the masters leaky prostate wanks ® (coined by my fav blogger, pvcycling) that get popped for doping all the time now

but, I bet he's on his high horse looking down at the dopers who do it for the weekend group rides.

He could be just an average Joe with a legit medical condition.

[beeatnik]

J, it's the delusion of being fast. I mean any of us who played JV basketball could score 80 points in the NBA if we were a little bit taller and practiced a lot, que no?

[fignon's barber]

I saw that guy last Saturday. Running in shorts, no shirt, 60+, ripped. Hah!

Article says the guy was 27. Maybe you were dreaming of this:cool:

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

He used to work at one of my LBS, imagine that. OC is home of the S-works and 60 year old guys with abs.

And one day soon, one of those abs will be a tumor from mega dosing on T, the new "wonder" drug. Vanity comes in all ages. Sadly, it's not just a west coast thing.

[BobC]

This is laughable at so many levels as USCF once again shows their incompetence.

Step back & think about this: instead of going after the serious cheating masters racers, they target a below-average cat IV who has done about a dozen races & not placed in any -- in an out of competition urinalysis.

Bravo Zulu, USCF. You really showed some fortitude here.

[peanutgallery]

Cat4/5 => having fun

Cat 3 => delusional

Cat 1/2 => unemployable

Glad to see nothing has changed and amateur road in the US is alive and well. Thought it was dead

[Mikej]

I just read the linked article. So is the implication in this thread that he was actually purposely doping, and this wasnt just the mistake of taking a legitmate medication and unknowingly breaking the rules?

Crazy that people would dope at the amateur level, but maybe that's how some people see themselves eventually getting to the professional level.

I'm pretty sure there is no TUE for Testosterone, is there?. At least there shouldn't be.

[Mikej]

This is laughable at so many levels as USCF once again shows their incompetence.

Step back & think about this: instead of going after the serious cheating masters racers, they target a below-average cat IV who has done about a dozen races & not placed in any -- in an out of competition urinalysis.

Bravo Zulu, USCF. You really showed some fortitude here.

Actually, all of us lower cat guys pay the bills and I feel we should be on a level field as well. A cheater is a cheater, PRO or CAT 5, EVERYBODY that plays should have the right to expect everybody they are playing against is not cheating. I understand, I'm almost 50, but it doesn't mean I should have to put up with cheaters taking illegal pills to enhance their performance because they cant do it au natural. Its called catting down if you cant.

[William]

Cat4/5 => having fun

Cat 3 => delusional

Cat 1/2 => unemployable

Glad to see nothing has changed and amateur road in the US is alive and well. Thought it was dead


Thanks for the laugh! :)






William

[zap]

USA cycling Cat 3..........out of competition test?

Really!

Did USADA use Facebook or Google to track the bloke?

[kgreene10]

I think the most pathetic part is that they actually wasted money on an expensive dope test on him, out of competition. Looks like this guy was Cat 4/5 pack fodder who did a grand total of 11 races over the last 5 years:
https://www.road-results.com/racer/93811

Completely agree. I think USAC and USADA are totally wrong headed in what they are doing with their time and racer / taxpayer resources when there are genuinely urgent things that at least USAC should be doing about improving safety. Sure, test the Cat 1 riders if you must and police the pro ranks to keep sponsors in the game, but then transfer all effort and resources to increasing safety so obsessed cycling dads like me don’t discourage their kids from getting into the sport. I can parent surrounding drugs and sportsmanship. I can’t parent my way to a safer environment on the open roads. But a concerted lobbying effort coordinated by USAC and involving existing local bicycle advocacy organizations could make an actual life and death difference.

[redir]

This is laughable at so many levels as USCF once again shows their incompetence.

Step back & think about this: instead of going after the serious cheating masters racers, they target a below-average cat IV who has done about a dozen races & not placed in any -- in an out of competition urinalysis.

Bravo Zulu, USCF. You really showed some fortitude here.

It's kind of hard to argue with the fact that they caught a cheater yeah? If anything the randomness of this type of testing should strike home to anyone else who is doping.

[GregL]

Completely agree. I think USAC and USADA are totally wrong headed in what they are doing with their time and racer / taxpayer resources when there are genuinely urgent things that at least USAC should be doing about improving safety. Sure, test the Cat 1 riders if you must and police the pro ranks to keep sponsors in the game, but then transfer all effort and resources to increasing safety so obsessed cycling dads like me don’t discourage their kids from getting into the sport. I can parent surrounding drugs and sportsmanship. I can’t parent my way to a safer environment on the open roads. But a concerted lobbying effort coordinated by USAC and involving existing local bicycle advocacy organizations could make an actual life and death difference.
USAC and USADA are in the businesses of racing and anti-doping, respectively. Their purpose is not general bicycling advocacy. The League of American Bicyclists is the appropriate group to target safer roads and local bicycle advocacy. As a licensed racer, I'm glad that cheaters are being targeted. I laughed my @$$ off when last year's state championship road race had drug testing for the masters winners. I'd guess that more than a few riders were suitably frightened by the prospect of a drug test!

Greg

[benb]

Given how little he races and that he had a prescription I'd be more likely to side on the side of this being USCF/USADA stupidity. This test/ban changes/will change 0 results it looks like. If he was following his doctors orders it was probably a dose that didn't make any difference.

Yet another reason not to pay their license fees and line up. They do just about nothing productive for the grassroots as far as I can tell and they mishandle the cases of all the pros where they should be paying way more attention and enforcing things in a way more even handed manner. (And every single person at USCF who enabled the Armstrong era should have been kicked to the curb by now)

Every time nutrition comes up on this forum half the thread is people espousing all kinds of garbage from GNC... news flash you could be this guy. How many pros have to tell you they gave up the supplements since they don't work and they sent some to a lab and they came back positive for banned substances?

I wonder how far this testing money could have gone towards things like defraying police detail costs for local races and stuff like that.. we seem to have pretty regular threads about big races closing up shop over costs and other things.

[carpediemracing]

USAC and USADA are in the businesses of racing and anti-doping, respectively. Their purpose is not general bicycling advocacy. The League of American Bicyclists is the appropriate group to target safer roads and local bicycle advocacy. As a licensed racer, I'm glad that cheaters are being targeted. I laughed my @$$ off when last year's state championship road race had drug testing for the masters winners. I'd guess that more than a few riders were suitably frightened by the prospect of a drug test!

Greg

+1

A couple years ago there were rumors that a particular race would have dope control around here. There were a lot of "sick" racers that didn't show up that day. I was wondering who would show, who would not. I was happy to see the local (hero to me) pro show up to race, a guy that's taken a number of dope tests (he posts the letters he gets from USADA on Facebook). The Masters fields seemed decimated by good weather illness. I'm not as in tune with the area Cat 1-2s but those riders seemed to be all there. Ends up they did do testing at the race, so the rumor was true.

When the whole push to test lower categories (meaning 2s, 3s, and Masters) hit the news, more than a few very consistent Masters winners in the area quit racing to pursue their career/family/etc.

It's only correlation, there's no proof of any wrongdoing, but it's interesting.

There was one pro that did my race and cheated in a different way - he jumped into the Cat 3-4 race, dragged his friends to the front of the field, then dropped out (he did this on one stretch, apparently more than once). The final effort dropped his teammates off near the front of the field on the last lap, with the friends placing (if I remember right) 6th and 7th.

When we learned about his shenanigans he was ejected from the P123 race. I wrote his team director reporting his behavior.

It was all wasted effort. He got popped shortly after for doping and sent packing.

I suspect there are plenty of dopers in the sport. They may not be doping to win bike races - for example I struggle daily to read small print and based on the Outside Magazine article "Drug Test" if I went on HGH that would go away pretty quickly - but it's still doping if I took HGH for my vision. But I understand that people want to improve their quality of life if they can. Heck, if I could take testosterone to cut some fat with no effort that would make things much nicer for me on the bike. I know what it took for me to get to 1999 weight and it was a tremendous effort, albeit clean. That's why I'm 25 lbs heavier now :)

There's a reason for Masters and Categories. It's to put people in appropriate competitive categories. If I'm 50 biologically but I'm loaded up on HGH and test and whatever and am better than I was when I was 25, then it's not fair that I race against other presumably clean 50 year olds.

[Mikej]

+1



There's a reason for Masters and Categories. It's to put people in appropriate competitive categories. If I'm 50 biologically but I'm loaded up on HGH and test and whatever and am better than I was when I was 25, then it's not fair that I race against other presumably clean 50 year olds.

agree 100x even if a "doctor" prescribed it.

[benb]

There's enough things that are a PITA about going to races vs just going for rides that if I was clean and racing masters and then got told I was going to start getting tested that'd probably push me over the edge to quit. You already have to get up earlier, pay for license fees, worry about higher injury/crash risks, pay for entry fees, drive to the start, etc..

Of course I don't race anymore anyway, cause it's not worth racing for peanuts and risking f'ing yourself up when you're older and have a family depending on you.

[BobC]

It's kind of hard to argue with the fact that they caught a cheater yeah? If anything the randomness of this type of testing should strike home to anyone else who is doping.

Actually I don't think it really does.

If I were the USCF, I'd go to a big race & set up the drug tent plainly visible for all to see. Then I'd check all the DNS. Congrats you now have your out of competition list. And I'd test every single one of them. Then repeat that process.

That would do more to discourage than this latest example.

[pasadena]

I like your delusions A :)
J, it's the delusion of being fast. I mean any of us who played JV basketball could score 80 points in the NBA if we were a little bit taller and practiced a lot, que no?

Random? USAC did not randomly test a buttstain cat 3 in the OC.
Like many of the leaky prostate wankers that get caught, someone called it in.
USAC pledged to stem cheating in the amateur ranks and I'm glad they are.

Yes, totally agree with you that it's a good deterrent.

It's kind of hard to argue with the fact that they caught a cheater yeah? If anything the randomness of this type of testing should strike home to anyone else who is doping.

[Mark McM]

There's enough things that are a PITA about going to races vs just going for rides that if I was clean and racing masters and then got told I was going to start getting tested that'd probably push me over the edge to quit. You already have to get up earlier, pay for license fees, worry about higher injury/crash risks, pay for entry fees, drive to the start, etc..

Of course I don't race anymore anyway, cause it's not worth racing for peanuts and risking f'ing yourself up when you're older and have a family depending on you.

I agree with the comments about the PITA and risk/rewards of racing vs. riding, especially as one gets on in years. But for me anyway, the adding possibility of drug testing is just a drop in the bucket, and makes no difference to me one way or the other regarding continuing to race. Getting drug tested is usually just a few minutes of inconvenience (as compared to the many hours of inconvenience of training and racing), and the chances of someone like me actually getting tested are very, very, small.

USADA has very little resources to do any kind of drug testing on amateur athletes, such as the master's level or the cat. 3 in question, and the certainly don't have to resources to do any meaningful amount of random testing. Therefore, most drug testing at this level is specifically targeted - USADA generally has a very strong reason to believe that a specific athlete is doping. Since I don't dope (and don't have the kind of results to make anyone even suspect I'm doping), the chances of me being tested are close to zero.

[earlfoss]

I had a chat last year with Victor Burgos, and he indicated that resources for testing are tight enough that when they take action there's usually a pretty credible lead behind it. It reinforced my notion that random testing is a lot less random than the casual observer would think.

[unterhausen]

If I were the USCF, I'd go to a big race & set up the drug tent plainly visible for all to see. Then I'd check all the DNS. Congrats you now have your out of competition list. And I'd test every single one of them. Then repeat that process.
that's what I was thinking, just do the OOC testing right there :)

I guess the cat 3 must have blabbed to someone about this. Really stupid. I wonder if he could have gotten a TUE. I was never proud of being a terminal Cat 3, but the humiliation of being a doping Cat 3 would be too much to bear.

[bobswire]

The best thing about the article is not about the Cat 3 suspension but that it led me to this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=dr-wLhP_HpM. :)

[Lanternrouge]

One thing about this that seems a bit silly to me is spending the resources on a guy who seems like he barely raced anyway. It seems he was such a little fish in terms of all this, that they could have gotten him out of racing by telling him that they were going to show up to test unless he'd voluntarily agree to give up his license for some amount of time (maybe even the length of the suspension). At least to me, it seems like popping this dude won't really discourage others from doping.

[earlfoss]

I don't think USADA cares what level the athlete competes at, they want to bust people. I'd guess USADA doesn't think it's silly to spend resources on a guy who they're certain will test positive.

Busting cheaters is the best PR for them so if there's a credible lead, they're more than likely going to pursue it whether they are male, female, cat1 or cat5. I wouldn't think this guy's results sheet played much of a role in USADA's decision to test him.

[Hellgate]

that's what I was thinking, just do the OOC testing right there :)

I guess the cat 3 must have blabbed to someone about this. Really stupid. I wonder if he could have gotten a TUE. I was never proud of being a terminal Cat 3, but the humiliation of being a doping Cat 3 would be too much to bear.Better to be a terminal CAT3 then a terminal CAT4...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[pasadena]

A licensed USAC member is equal to any other.
They all sign the same agreement to sporting conduct.

Sending the message that we all must follow the same rules and that the weekend warriors don't turn into the rampant doping leaky prostate masters racing that is almost an epidemic- it's important.

One thing about this that seems a bit silly to me is spending the resources on a guy who seems like he barely raced anyway. It seems he was such a little fish in terms of all this, that they could have gotten him out of racing by telling him that they were going to show up to test unless he'd voluntarily agree to give up his license for some amount of time (maybe even the length of the suspension). At least to me, it seems like popping this dude won't really discourage others from doping.

[David Tollefson]

The best thing about the article is not about the Cat 3 suspension but that it led me to this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=dr-wLhP_HpM. :)

Cool video. Love both of those guys, even though I think they're both a bit nuts. Funniest part was when Claudio looks over the edge of the bridge and says "there's something seriously wrong with that guy."

[kgreene10]

USAC and USADA are in the businesses of racing and anti-doping, respectively. Their purpose is not general bicycling advocacy. The League of American Bicyclists is the appropriate group to target safer roads and local bicycle advocacy. As a licensed racer, I'm glad that cheaters are being targeted. I laughed my @$$ off when last year's state championship road race had drug testing for the masters winners. I'd guess that more than a few riders were suitably frightened by the prospect of a drug test!

Greg

USAC has a variety of roles and as the major proponent of bike racing as well as recruitment of young talent, it’s not beyond their purview to work toward safer training. The impact of unsafe conditions on the sport may be huge if parents think the way I do - and I do every road race and crit I can.

As far as evading doping officials goes, as long as smoking pot (or otherwise ingesting it) earns a ban, even in states where its consumption is legal, the whole thing is a farce. Most people with a career would prefer to miss a race rather than be outed to their employer as a pot smoker. How many people are fleeing doping control for this reason rather than PEDs? No one knows, and that’s exactly the point. The policy means you simply cannot infer why racers flee. What could have been a useful data point about the extent of doping is made useless.

[earlfoss]

I think consuming pot should earn you a ban. I don't want to be in a fast, dangerous crit with some dude who lights up in the parking lot before pinning his number on. To me it's a safety issue more than a performance enhancing issue.

[bobswire]

I think consuming pot should earn you a ban. I don't want to be in a fast, dangerous crit with some dude who lights up in the parking lot before pinning his number on. To me it's a safety issue more than a performance enhancing issue.

As far as I know, potheads by and large don't race crits.

[earlfoss]

As far as I know, potheads by and large don't race crits.

Maybe and maybe not. Like anything else, there's a few, less than some might think, and more than others might think.

[tommyrod74]

Maybe and maybe not. Like anything else, there's a few, less than some might think, and more than others might think.

The racers I know who do partake never do so before riding or racing. It would be a performance detriment.

My problem with testing for marijuana is that a guy who smoked once last month at a party could be sanctioned for something that's legal in many states and doesn't enhance performance in the slightest.

[unterhausen]

I'm sure pot is banned, but they are unlikely to test for it. The problem is that it's very persistent, so someone that races clean but smokes at other times is still going to test positive.

[Mark McM]

As far as I know, potheads by and large don't race crits.

I had done been racing on the road (including crits) for a number of years before I did my first MTB race. While getting my bike ready in the parking lot at that first MTB race, I noticed a very distinct aroma in the air - one that I hadn't experienced much since hanging out with the mellow dudes back in college. While crit racers may not regularly partake of the herb, I suspect competitors in other cycling disciplines may.

[m4rk540]

I think consuming pot should earn you a ban. I don't want to be in a fast, dangerous crit with some dude who lights up in the parking lot before pinning his number on. To me it's a safety issue more than a performance enhancing issue.

I've ridden with a bunch of riders who do the Redhook series. At least half take hits during regroups. You may actually be safer riding next to one of these guys than a 35-year-old with a full time job who trains 20 hours weekly and diets pathologically.

The literature is emerging.

https://www.onnit.com/academy/the-effect-of-weed-on-exercise-is-marijuana-a-performance-enhancing-drug/

https://www.usada.org/substances/marijuana-faq/

[earlfoss]

Yeah everyone knows how there's no crashes in the RedHook races

[Mark McM]

As far as evading doping officials goes, as long as smoking pot (or otherwise ingesting it) earns a ban, even in states where its consumption is legal, the whole thing is a farce.

Marijuana is not legal in any state. Some states have removed or changed their own state laws regarding marijuana, but those laws (or lack thereof) don't supercede the federal criminalization of its distribution or consumption.

Besides, there are plenty of other, perfectly legal drugs that are also banned by USADA/WADA due to their effects on athlete's bodies - why should Marijuana be some kind of exception?

[beeatnik]

Yeah everyone knows how there's no crashes in the RedHook races

Those are the nervous, sober guys. :bike:

And the cats on roids

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElGDtjbKzy4

[colker]

Those are the nervous, sober guys. :bike:

And the cats on roids

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElGDtjbKzy4

Watching this just ruined my fragile psychological balance.

[tommyrod74]

Marijuana is not legal in any state. Some states have removed or changed their own state laws regarding marijuana, but those laws (or lack thereof) don't supercede the federal criminalization of its distribution or consumption.

True, but only the current asshole masquerading as Attorney General has displayed any interest in going after recreational marijuana users in the states that have amended their laws to allow it.

[beeatnik]

Watching this just ruined my fragile psychological balance.

He's a nice boy.

https://www.instagram.com/jeremysantucci/

[benb]

If there was a tip on this guy I'd almost find it easier to believe it was some bizarre thing like somebody hates him and he had a legit medical reason to be on it with no performance benefit and the person who hated him "dropped a dime" and called USADA. That kind of behavior seems almost more believable the way bike racers sometimes act.

[Hamfist]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElGDtjbKzy4


Almost positive that bike was borrowed, too.

[GregL]

Per previous USADA press releases, they are targeting amateur athletes based on suspicious performances and tips: https://www.usada.org/athletes/playclean/

Not all masters athletes are "leaky prostate wankers." Some of us just enjoy the competition as a healthy form of stress relief. When your deep in the pain cave trying to hold on to a break, you aren't worrying about paying your kid's college bills, caring for your aging parents, mowing the lawn, or completing the "honey do" list. Your only focus is staying in the break. And the vast majority of amateur athletes, IMO, are clean and want a clean playing field.

Greg

[kgreene10]

A lot of non-PEDs should be exceptions for the exact reason I mentioned above - Including then dissuades cooperation from racers and means no one knows the rationale for non-compliance. The statements made in this thread, for instance, implying that people fail to show at races with testing because they are using PEDs can’t be sustained.

Someone mentioned that it’s unlikely testers would try to detect marijuana. The Race Clean email I got from USAC a few months ago boasted about the 2-3 (can’t remember how many) amateur athletes who were busted in the prior period - one for marijuana only.

[mtechnica]

I think consuming pot should earn you a ban. I don't want to be in a fast, dangerous crit with some dude who lights up in the parking lot before pinning his number on. To me it's a safety issue more than a performance enhancing issue.

Give me a ****ing break

[mtechnica]

MJ doesn’t impair your coordination or ability to ride a bike unless you are a non smoker and get super high. People that do it regularly are 100% fine I guarantee it and I know first hand that’s the case. Alcohol and other drugs that cause you to be more aggressive or make hasty decisions are far far far FAR more dangerous.

[redir]

Actually I don't think it really does.

If I were the USCF, I'd go to a big race & set up the drug tent plainly visible for all to see. Then I'd check all the DNS. Congrats you now have your out of competition list. And I'd test every single one of them. Then repeat that process.

That would do more to discourage than this latest example.

Ha! A sting operation ;)

[redir]

why should Marijuana be some kind of exception?

Because it's not performance enhancing? I mean, I can't imagine that it it is anyway.

I've never seen anyone 'lite up' before a crit. I can't even imagine what those first 5 laps would be like trying to breath as hard as possible after doing a few bong rips.

[Mark McM]

A lot of non-PEDs should be exceptions for the exact reason I mentioned above - Including then dissuades cooperation from racers and means no one knows the rationale for non-compliance. The statements made in this thread, for instance, implying that people fail to show at races with testing because they are using PEDs can’t be sustained

Well, you're going to have to take your fight to a higher level. USADA doesn't have the authority to remove marijuana from the banned list (nor does the US government, for that matter). It is banned at the international level - it appears on the WADA banned list. If you go to the USADA web page, they list the justifications for this ban.

[ripvanrando]

Yes, he is does have a legit condition.


The fact it's Cat 3 makes it sad, but no less pathetic than the masters leaky prostate wanks ® (coined by my fav blogger, pvcycling) that get popped for doping all the time now

but, I bet he's on his high horse looking down at the dopers who do it for the weekend group rides.

Probably one of your fellow Snowflakes transitioning from Zer to Ze.

[colker]

He's a nice boy.

https://www.instagram.com/jeremysantucci/

oohhh... it just got worse.

[kgreene10]

Well, you're going to have to take your fight to a higher level. USADA doesn't have the authority to remove marijuana from the banned list (nor does the US government, for that matter). It is banned at the international level - it appears on the WADA banned list. If you go to the USADA web page, they list the justifications for this ban.

Cool, I get a trip to Switzerland or Geneva, or wherever USADA is located. Funny thing is that I don’t even ingest or smoke pot. I’m just bothered by the bad policy and that it leads observers to incorrect conclusions about the frequency of PED use.

[pasadena]

All leaky prostate wankers enjoy it for those reasons.
Just some of them cheat.

I think you're right, most are clean in the leaky prostate weekend pro circuit.
There are a lot more dopers now, and a lot more getting busted.

Many agree to the rules, unless it runs counter to their self-interest.
Slippery slope logic is the standard for dopers.


Not all masters athletes are "leaky prostate wankers." Some of us just enjoy the competition as a healthy form of stress relief. When your deep in the pain cave trying to hold on to a break, you aren't worrying about paying your kid's college bills, caring for your aging parents, mowing the lawn, or completing the "honey do" list. Your only focus is staying in the break. And the vast majority of amateur athletes, IMO, are clean and want a clean playing field.

Greg

[Mark McM]

Cool, I get a trip to Switzerland or Geneva, or wherever USADA is located. Funny thing is that I don’t even ingest or smoke pot. I’m just bothered by the bad policy and that it leads observers to incorrect conclusions about the frequency of PED use.

Well, you probably won't have to go quite that far - WADA is headquartered in Montreal, Canada. There is legislation to legalize MJ currently going through the Canadian Parliament, and it is expected to be enacted in June. But MJ will still be banned for Canadian athletes that do sports that are signatories of the WADA code.

[m4rk540]

Apologies in advance.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrHmcpRAZNs

[ripvanrando]

All leaky prostate wankers enjoy it for those reasons.
Just some of them cheat.

I think you're right, most are clean in the leaky prostate weekend pro circuit.
There are a lot more dopers now, and a lot more getting busted.

Many agree to the rules, unless it runs counter to their self-interest.
Slippery slope logic is the standard for dopers.

Your buddy must have been sleeping in Anatomy class, prostates don't leak but then again, cheating on final exams is standard with the Snowflakes.

The vast majority of Masters are clean (outside of La La land).

[fignon's barber]

Your buddy must have been sleeping in Anatomy class, prostates don't leak but then again, cheating on final exams is standard with the Snowflakes..

Ha. I was thinking the same thing. Medically speaking, seems like the dude has developed some sort of sociopathy from having his gluteus maximus handed to him by Masters riders at the local Tuesday Night Worlds.

[ripvanrando]

Ha. I was thinking the same thing. Medically speaking, seems like the dude has developed some sort of sociopathy from having his gluteus maximus handed to him by Masters riders at the local Tuesday Night Worlds.

I find the whole hated towards Masters racers really annoying.

This thread is about a 27 year old Cat 3 loser.

I had worked really hard getting back into the pack on top of 60 hour work weeks. Clean. I decided it was too much. I could still barely keep up with the guys who were Cat 1 or 2 back in the day. I never thought, "They must be doping because I can barely hold their wheel"........they were always better and surprise, they still are.

[unterhausen]

He's a nice boy.

https://www.instagram.com/jeremysantucci/

there appears to be one pic where he's weightlifting using a couple of kickr trainers. Wahoo should advertise this.

[ripvanrando]

https://www.instagram.com/jeremysantucci/

Pics from 6 months ago to now?

He was on more than Testosterone. Probably did a few cycles with the hardcore stuff. Weird. Every other Instagram is of his abs or some sort of topless pic.

On a positive note, his parent's basement is nicely done.

[fignon's barber]

I find the whole hated towards Masters racers really annoying.

This thread is about a 27 year old Cat 3 loser.


Agree on the Masters thing.

[oldguy00]

Agree that it is a total waste of resources busting someone like that, but maybe once they got the tip, they had no choice but to follow through, otherwise look bad?

[benb]

Well if he's using stuff to look good for his dating escapades that's totally different than a medical use, sounds like he did indeed get a sketchy prescription and I take back what I said, fine for USCF to get that kind of person out of the races.. if you're willing to take those drugs for aesthetics you're probably well on the way to abusing them for results if you suddenly decide you want to be competitive.

[beeatnik]

https://www.instagram.com/jeremysantucci/

Pics from 6 months ago to now?

He was on more than Testosterone. Probably did a few cycles with the hardcore stuff. Weird. Every other Instagram is of his abs or some sort of topless pic.

On a positive note, his parent's basement is nicely done.

To set the record straight, the bike thrower is not the banned SoCal Cat 3. He is a model and Cat 5 who is mostly known for racing brakeless criteriums.

Almost forgot

Masters(') racing is so weird.

[fignon's barber]

Guys, this thread has taken a turn to the ridiculous. So far, the PL court has decided: 1) the doctor has broken the oath of his life's work to write unethical scripts, 2) the rider is unethical and has come up with a scheme to cheat other riders out of their rightful winnings, 3) the rider deserves to be treated like Lance's evil twin.....and those are the polite conclusions.
This is plain wrong. All based on an interpretation of a vague headline.
The rider could be a person with a medical condition who turned to a physician for help. The physician could have prescribed an appropriate medication (as 99.999999% of them do). This rider may be a patient who also dabbles in bikes (like we do). He could have been not trying to cheat anything.
Let's be good humans here.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

.............his parent's basement is nicely done.

Potd.

[peanutgallery]

I wonder if he watches gladiator movies?

https://www.instagram.com/jeremysantucci/

Pics from 6 months ago to now?

He was on more than Testosterone. Probably did a few cycles with the hardcore stuff. Weird. Every other Instagram is of his abs or some sort of topless pic.

On a positive note, his parent's basement is nicely done.

[Black Dog]

I wonder if he watches gladiator movies?

Surely you can’t be serious. ;)

[peanutgallery]

I am serious. And don't call me Shirley

Surely you can’t be serious. ;)

[pasadena]

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oKHWiMocusSnsHBi8/giphy.gif

I wonder if he watches gladiator movies?

[peanutgallery]

I draw the line at Turkish prisons

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oKHWiMocusSnsHBi8/giphy.gif

[Avispa]

Wow... I can't believe we are still wasting our time and resources on stuff like this! Testing a Cat 3, really? How much time, money and effort does this all cost and who is paying for it?

I have always said it, we are in this mess, because we have messy rules to start with.

Ban anyone that gets caught/break the rules for life and you will see the sport get cleaned up really fast!!!

[John H.]

Who should they test then?

He was a subject of targeted testing- Someone had to call the USADA hotline to get this one going-

This is how they should do it- Test all categories, put fear into anyone who is using-


Wow... I can't believe we are still wasting our time and resources on stuff like this! Testing a Cat 3, really? How much time, money and effort does this all cost and who is paying for it?

I have always said it, we are in this mess, because we have messy rules to start with.

Ban anyone that gets caught/break the rules for life and you will see the sport get cleaned up really fast!!!

[tculbreath]

Good riddance.

[Avispa]

Who should they test then?



This is how they should do it- Test all categories, put fear into anyone who is using-


Fear??? If the Lance fiasco didn’t scare a Cat 3 from doing it.... I rest my case!

As I said, lifetime bans for the athlete and jail time for the providers... but that will never happen on a broken system as it is...

You get a harder penalty for a motor on your bike than you get for PEDs... the motor has nothing to do with “endangering your health”, which is the main excuse for banning doping...

[froze]

I don't find this weird or unbelievable, I knew Cat 3 guys that were doing this back in the 80's when I raced cat 3! In fact my girlfriends cousin, a number one ranked female tennis player at the time, was trying to convince me to do drugs because she knew I was into racing and tried to convince me in order to succeed in racing I need to do drugs and she could hook me up with someone, I declined and I never got past cat 3.

This drug thing is very prevalent in all sports, even with tennis players, and I know you all have heard of instances when star high school football players are given stuff by coaches or parents so they can excel at with whatever sports so they can get college scholarships. I own rental properties, one of the apartment buildings that I own is across the street from the number ranked school for sports and education in the Fort Wayne area but not a Fort Wayne public school a different public school, and I get people who want to rent an apartment but won't be living in it, they just need the address to get their kid into that school...this is not uncommon either. While that's not a drug problem it still shows how far a person will go to get their kid the chance they need and drugs are also included to improve the odds.

[beeatnik]

Playing bike racer on weekends is so weird.

[unterhausen]

maybe instead of doing the test, they should call people up and offer the opportunity to take the test or confess. That would probably save some funds

[cachagua]

They should... offer the opportunity to take the test or confess...



Didn't they used to do that? I think it was called the Spanish Inquisition.

[unterhausen]

"we both know you're guilty, so just save us all the trouble of taking blood, m-kay?"

[colker]

maybe instead of doing the test, they should call people up and offer the opportunity to take the test or confess. That would probably save some funds

Spanish inquisition wouldn´t do any better.

[redir]

They tested the first and second place Masters 35 winners in my local spring classic yesterday. I've never seen that before so it looks like they are indeed getting more serious about it. How could anyone who cares about this sport, and especially those who complain about dopers so much, think that is a waste?

Clean it up, that's what I say.

[unterhausen]

Spanish inquisition wouldn´t do any better.

my point is that the guy in the OP seems to have given himself up pretty easily, maybe they should have asked him about it first instead of going through the trouble. If they want you to take the test, you can either do it or get a ban, it's not like I'm proposing anything any more draconian than that. My original thought is that the doper should pay for the test and get a refund if they aren't a doper. But then I realized it would be pretty likely that people would rat someone out just to get rid of them.

[John H.]

I do agree that the system is broken- But it runs deeper than that.

In current western culture and western medicine- If you want a physical issue fixed- You throw a drug at it.
Our doctors and insurance companies are fully trained in to this.

As far as the system is- I agree. Make penalties cut and dry, close the loopholes.
They should do away with TUE's. If you need a drug in order to be healthy enough to race- Sorry, too bad, can't do it.
There will be casualties, but it will eliminate grey areas.


Fear??? If the Lance fiasco didn’t scare a Cat 3 from doing it.... I rest my case!

As I said, lifetime bans for the athlete and jail time for the providers... but that will never happen on a broken system as it is...

You get a harder penalty for a motor on your bike than you get for PEDs... the motor has nothing to do with “endangering your health”, which is the main excuse for banning doping...

[froze]

I do agree that the system is broken- But it runs deeper than that.

In current western culture and western medicine- If you want a physical issue fixed- You throw a drug at it.
Our doctors and insurance companies are fully trained in to this.

As far as the system is- I agree. Make penalties cut and dry, close the loopholes.
They should do away with TUE's. If you need a drug in order to be healthy enough to race- Sorry, too bad, can't do it.
There will be casualties, but it will eliminate grey areas.

While America is a drug culture both legal and illegal, any type of doping for sports is not covered by any insurance policy, so the insurance companies are not trained to fix or improve your ability to perform, and only a very few doctors will work under the table to improve your performance and you have to referred by someone they know because of the legal issues that could send them to jail not to mention revoking of their medical license. This is why most of these types of doctors are in other countries; some coaches have access to drugs through the black market in America so no doctor is even involved.

I have weird thoughts on this illegal doping stuff. First off unless they are willing to check EVERY rider before and after each race they're just wasting their time! But problem with that is the cost to check each rider, fees would have to way up to cover the cost, and even then the riders will figure out how to fool the test. So knowing all of that I have another weird thought...just legalize anything and everything except little electric motors, that way there is no need for checking, and there would be no added costs.

[GregL]

But problem with that is the cost to check each rider, fees would have to way up to cover the cost, and even then the riders will figure out how to fool the test.
Fees HAVE gone up. Way up. USA Cycling license fees have more than doubled over the past 20 years. Some of it covers the suits in Colorado Springs. Some of it covers the cost of random and targeted drug testing. But I agree that checking all riders is both ridiculous and cost prohibitive.

Greg

[Mark McM]

They should do away with TUE's. If you need a drug in order to be healthy enough to race- Sorry, too bad, can't do it.
There will be casualties, but it will eliminate grey areas.

So, you want to ban Team Novo Nordisk (https://www.teamnovonordisk.com/), which is composed completely of athletes with Type 1 Diabetes, and who must take insulin (a banned drub, just to survive? That seems quite draconian. While the TUE system is sometimes manipulated, in this case it is not - there is little doubt about a type 1 diabetes diagnosis, and it is not at all a performance enhancer (even when taking insulin).

[djg21]

Fees HAVE gone up. Way up. USA Cycling license fees have more than doubled over the past 20 years. Some of it covers the suits in Colorado Springs. Some of it covers the cost of random and targeted drug testing. But I agree that checking all riders is both ridiculous and cost prohibitive.

Greg

I think it’s dumb too. There is a larger problem with bicycle racing if recreational riders and weekend warriors are induced to using PEDs to win. It’s a pastime for anyone who is not racing as a Cat I or Pro, and who does not have realistic aspirations of becoming one. Keep the license and race entry fees affordable for recreational racers, lose the prize money in all but the elite fields, and skip most drug testing in those lesser fields. Bicycle racing is no different than after-work softball or bowling beer leagues for most of us, and drug testing just feeds the delusions of grandeur that many in bicycle racing community seem to have.

If US Cycling is to test riders racing in recreational fields, it should focus its efforts on those regularly winning and placing, especially at more prestigious events, who presumably do aspire to climb through the categories and race at an elite level. Testing pack fodder in masters, Cat 3 or Cat 4 fields who race locally for kicks and often don’t bother getting a TUE for drugs their doctors prescribe is silly and a wasteful.

[djg21]

So, you want to ban Team Novo Nordisk (https://www.teamnovonordisk.com/), which is composed completely of athletes with Type 1 Diabetes, and who must take insulin (a banned drub, just to survive? That seems quite draconian. While the TUE system is sometimes manipulated, in this case it is not - there is little doubt about a type 1 diabetes diagnosis, and it is not at all a performance enhancer (even when taking insulin).

Not to mention that it would blatantly discriminate against persons with disabilities, and very well could be a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act.

[GregL]

I think it’s dumb too. There is a larger problem with bicycle racing if recreational riders and weekend warriors are induced to using PEDs to win. It’s a pastime for anyone who is not racing as a Cat I or Pro, and who does not have realistic aspirations of becoming one. Keep the license and race entry fees affordable for recreational racers, lose the prize money in all but the elite fields, and skip most drug testing in those lesser fields. Bicycle racing is no different than after-work softball or bowling beer leagues for most of us, and drug testing just feeds the delusions of grandeur that many in bicycle racing community seem to have.

If US Cycling is to test riders racing in recreational fields, it should focus its efforts on those regularly winning and placing, especially at more prestigious events, who presumably do aspire to climb through the categories and race at an elite level. Testing pack fodder in masters, Cat 3 or Cat 4 fields who race locally for kicks and often don’t bother getting a TUE for drugs their doctors prescribe is silly and a wasteful.
The PED problem is not specific to bike racing. It's a form of cheating and some segment of the human population will always cheat to win. They'll cheat to win in recreational softball (https://www.sbnation.com/2015/8/5/9041099/the-bat-doctor-is-in) with "doped" bats. Bowlers will use balls with illegal drilling to skew the ball's center of gravity. I agree that no prizes, monetary or otherwise, are necessary in amateur racing.

Testing at USA Cycling events is targeted toward suspicious riders (possibly identified by the tip line) and race winners. If you are a consistent back marker, the chances of getting tested are very small. I support this testing. As a clean rider, I want the opportunity to compete fairly with other clean riders. If I win or lose, I want it to be on my merits, not my pharmaceuticals.

Greg

[John H.]

There will be some casualties- But it would benefit the largest % of competitors.

So, you want to ban Team Novo Nordisk (https://www.teamnovonordisk.com/), which is composed completely of athletes with Type 1 Diabetes, and who must take insulin (a banned drub, just to survive? That seems quite draconian. While the TUE system is sometimes manipulated, in this case it is not - there is little doubt about a type 1 diabetes diagnosis, and it is not at all a performance enhancer (even when taking insulin).

[tommyrod74]

There will be some casualties....

If the casualties include people like Novo-Nordisk's racers, they are unacceptable.

[Mark McM]

Nobody starts bike racing as a Pro - they all spent some time as amateurs. It is naïve to think that many Pros who take PEDs didn't start taking them as amateurs.

As has already been demonstrated, fighting PEDs takes a culture change - and its best to start new riders into the new culture, instead of trying the much harder task of trying to 'retrain' those who are already immersed in the old culture.

[ripvanrando]

Every racer should be tested at Ground Zero. SoCal. So weird there

[tommyrod74]

Nobody starts bike racing as a Pro - they all spent some time as amateurs. It is naïve to think that many Pros who take PEDs didn't start taking them as amateurs.

As has already been demonstrated, fighting PEDs takes a culture change - and its best to start new riders into the new culture, instead of trying the much harder task of trying to 'retrain' those who are already immersed in the old culture.

Maybe - but I know more than a few current and former pros, and it's safe to say none of them, if they ever doped, began doing so as a 3. Almost all the "real" pros I've known were Cat 1 within at most 2 seasons of racing. They were in Cat 3 for all of a month, if that. Dope doesn't turn a donkey into a racehorse.

Conversely, I've been surprised at the number of pack-fodder mid-cat amateur dopers I've read about, like this guy. Juicing and can't win Cat 3 crits? Cmon.

[livingminimal]

As far as I know, potheads by and large don't race crits.

I mean, are there still lots and lots and lots of careers/states where you'd be fired for smoking weed?

I live in this California bubble where you can go out for green for happy hour the way we used to go out for drinks...

[ripvanrando]

I mean, are there still lots and lots and lots of careers/states where you'd be fired for smoking weed?

I live in this California bubble where you can go out for green for happy hour the way we used to go out for drinks...

Yes

[livingminimal]

Yes

This world is trash.

[ripvanrando]

This world is trash.

Pot is illegal

I would not want an impaired person under my charge doing work potentially impacting others.

Simple as that

[livingminimal]

Pot is illegal

I would not want an impaired person under my charge doing work potentially impacting others.

Simple as that

I am not talking about smoking weed on the job, dude.

The point made earlier would be someone who was busted for Pot for an out of competition test then getting outted at their job, then lose it.

Its an insanely stupid ****ing world where people can drink with their leisure time, but not partake in cannabis.

I say this as someone who hasnt been high since the series finale of Dawson's Creek. May 14th, 2003.

[ripvanrando]

I am not talking about smoking weed on the job, dude.

The point made earlier would be someone who was busted for Pot for an out of competition test then getting outted at their job, then lose it.

Its an insanely stupid ****ing world where people can drink with their leisure time, but not partake in cannabis.

I say this as someone who hasnt been high since the series finale of Dawson's Creek. May 14th, 2003.

Originally Posted by livingminimal View Post
I mean, are there still lots and lots and lots of careers/states where you'd be fired for smoking weed?

I live in this California bubble where you can go out for green for happy hour the way we used to go out for drinks...

You asked if there are careers where you would be fired for smoking weed.

I said yes.

Every client I work for tests me. Fail? No work.

I am merely responding to your question.

Personally, I would not want a pot head making decisions about medicinal or pharmaceutical products (my line of work). Pot is not legal. Many professions test. Positive? Bye Bye

[livingminimal]

You asked if there are careers where you would be fired for smoking weed.

Then you ignored the context in which the question was asked.



Personally, I would not want a pot head making decisions about medicinal or pharmaceutical products (my line of work). Pot is not legal. Many professions test. Positive? Bye Bye


You think someone that uses marijuana on a recreational basis isnt intelligent enough to make decisions around medicinal or pharmaceutical products?

[ripvanrando]

Then you ignored the context in which the question was asked.





You think someone that uses marijuana on a recreational basis isnt intelligent enough to make decisions around medicinal or pharmaceutical products?

You asked a question, I answered factually in context.

Pot is illegal.

Intelligence was not part of my statement.

I would not want an impaired person carrying a gun, making product disposition decisions on medicinal products, driving a taxi, flying a plane, or any other real job irrespective of the type of substance. Illegal drug use should be immediate grounds for termination

[mtechnica]

You asked a question, I answered factually in context.

Pot is illegal.

Intelligence was not part of my statement.

I would not want an impaired person carrying a gun, making product disposition decisions on medicinal products, driving a taxi, flying a plane, or any other real job irrespective of the type of substance. Illegal drug use should be immediate grounds for termination

Alcohol was illegal at one point. Should everyone that consumed alcohol during prohibition have been banned from all work or public service? And also, why are you implying that someone that smokes weed outside of work will be impaired during work the next day??? AND ALSO, alcoholics can buy guns?!?! You sound like the kind of person that makes no sense and can't think critically...

[livingminimal]

You asked a question, I answered factually in context.

Pot is illegal.

Intelligence was not part of my statement.

I would not want an impaired person carrying a gun, making product disposition decisions on medicinal products, driving a taxi, flying a plane, or any other real job irrespective of the type of substance. Illegal drug use should be immediate grounds for termination

Who is talking about someone being impaired?
If I smoke a joint tonight, in the safety of my home, why do you think that makes me impaired tomorrow and unable to make safe, effective decisions?

[ripvanrando]

Drug addicts are habitually impaired

[mtechnica]

Drug addicts are habitually impaired

Are you seriously implying that recreational MJ users are DRUG ADDICTS? Are you in fact, JEFF SESSIONS, hiding behind the monitor, posting from the Keebler factory? :fight:

[ripvanrando]

Are you seriously implying that recreational MJ users are DRUG ADDICTS? Are you in fact, JEFF SESSIONS, hiding behind the monitor, posting from the Keebler factory? :fight:

Just sharing the vision from my world.

Asked and answered.

Bye

[m4rk540]

Every MBA I know on Wall Street smokes hella boutique weed. Delivered to the doorman nightly. I wish they would get fired. Druggies should not be making 15x my earnings! Is there an 800 number I can call?

:p

[GregL]

Before this thread devolves completely into a "marijuana is good/bad" shouting match, perhaps some facts would help. Under the WADA code, marijuana is prohibited in competition: https://www.usada.org/substances/marijuana-faq/#mjlist. If you get drug tested out of competition, you won't fail for pot in your system. If however you choose to race under USA Cycling, you agree to race by the rules. And the rules prohibit marijuana in competition.

Greg

[mtechnica]

Every MBA I know on Wall Street smokes hella boutique weed. Delivered to the doorman nightly. I wish they would get fired. Druggies should not be making 15x my earnings! Is there an 800 number I can call?

:p

News flash: There is no correlation between intelligence and recreational drug use :) ;)

[mtechnica]

Before this thread devolves completely into a "marijuana is good/bad" shouting match, perhaps some facts would help. Under the WADA code, marijuana is prohibited in competition: https://www.usada.org/substances/marijuana-faq/#mjlist. If you get drug tested out of competition, you won't fail for pot in your system. If however you choose to race under USA Cycling, you agree to race by the rules. And the rules prohibit marijuana in competition.

Greg

This is a good point and 100% true, people should know what they signed up for and not assume they are AN EXCEPTION.

[54ny77]

Name that bike!

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a4/37/96/a437967e73a3757ab6e079b34fc23386.jpg

(Kinda looks like a Calfee?)

[tommyrod74]

Just sharing the vision from my world.

Asked and answered.

Bye

What a snowflake.

[ripvanrando]

What a snowflake.

Welcome to the real world, ****head

The other douchbag wanted to know if companies tested for pot smoking. I provided facts to that point.

So, **** you

[mtechnica]

Welcome to the real world, ****head

The other douchbag wanted to know if companies tested for pot smoking. I provided facts to that point.

So, **** you

Hey, friend, it seems that you provided a little more than "facts" here. Are you willing to engage in discussion or are you set in your beliefs and only willing to resort to insults? You don't have to hide from us, Jeff!

[livingminimal]

Welcome to the real world, ****head

The other douchbag wanted to know if companies tested for pot smoking. I provided facts to that point.

So, **** you

I mean, I don't care what you call me, your commentary demonstrates plenty, but two points...

1) you still didn't understand the context in which I asked the question. You just didn't. Simple as that.
2) Thanks in advance for getting the thread locked.

[homagesilkhope]

maybe instead of doing the test, they should call people up and offer the opportunity to take the test or confess. That would probably save some funds

They already do this. Since the Kyle Leogrande announcement last August, USADA has announced nine more cycling bans. In two of those cases, the athlete refused to submit to testing, which counts as a doping violation. Two other cases didn't involve testing (remember the jilted coach ratting out himself and his ex-girlfriend?).

Looking at these, athlete age is also interesting. Backing up to include Leogrande, ages at the time of announcement of the bans were 40, 46, 33, 46, 41, 44, 57, 56, 27 (our guy Lima) and 29. Includes the case of the 40 year-old and her parents asking (unsuccessfully) for an anonymous ban so as to protect her livelihood. Uh, right, y'all ever heard of consequences? The last one banned, Barry Miller, was the closest thing to a pro and he wasn't very. Test on.

[livingminimal]

Looking at these, athlete age is also interesting. Backing up to include Leogrande, ages at the time of announcement of the bans were 40, 46, 33, 46, 41, 44, 57, 56, 27 (our guy Lima) and 29. Includes the case of the 40 year-old and her parents asking (unsuccessfully) for an anonymous ban so as to protect her livelihood. Uh, right, y'all ever heard of consequences? The last one banned, Barry Miller, was the closest thing to a pro and he wasn't very. Test on.

This provides way more commentary on this pathetic pseudo-bike racer lifestyle than it does on the testing bodies, that's for sure.

Agree, test on.

[mtechnica]

Let's be honest here though:

1.) Weed, isn't going to make you faster

2.) Test might make you a little faster if you can afford/get a script, but it isn't going to make a huge difference. some dudes have low test but afaik the testing is for above a normal threshold.

3.) Anabolic steroids will make a decent or noticeable difference if you can get them/afford them, but for cycling it's not going to turn you into a pro.

4.) EPO might take you from VG amateur to pro speeds if you have the talent and train enough, but it's expensive and not easy to come by, and you'll probably get popped at some point.

Bottom line is that doping is just plain SAD If you have a sub 300 FTP and complaining about MJ/rec drug users is ridiculous :help:

EDIT: makes sense that middle aged white dudes (rich + bored + inferiority complex?) can afford PED AKA masters

[John H.]

mtechnica speaks the truth!

[joosttx]

I mean, are there still lots and lots and lots of careers/states where you'd be fired for smoking weed?

I live in this California bubble where you can go out for green for happy hour the way we used to go out for drinks...

When I worked we tested for drugs. There were two "reasons" but really it was for one bigger reason. We got a hell of a reduced rate on our insurance (or could be underwritten) if we did test. It was about the bottomline.

I never cared what people did in their after hours as long as they did not bring it to work. I had more problems with angry hotheads and serial adulterers than I did with anyone I even suspected burned the tree.

[Keith A]

Okay guys, can we please drop the name calling and personal attacks? If not, then this discussion will be closed. Thanks.

[AngryScientist]

I mean, are there still lots and lots and lots of careers/states where you'd be fired for smoking weed?

I live in this California bubble where you can go out for green for happy hour the way we used to go out for drinks...

To answer this question: yes. There are still plenty of careers that drug screen as terms of employment. Failure of test is grounds for termination.

IMO: with regard to bike racing or someone’s career or whatever - it’s all spelled out in the terms of employment/participation.

If you take a job in which the employee handbook explicitly states that any drug use is grounds for termination- then you can’t complain if you get fired for using drugs. It’s that simple. That’s just basic accountability. You have an agreement with your employer.

[livingminimal]

To answer this question: yes. There are still plenty of careers that drug screen as terms of employment. Failure of test is grounds for termination.

IMO: with regard to bike racing or someone’s career or whatever - it’s all spelled out in the terms of employment/participation.

If you take a job in which the employee handbook explicitly states that any drug use is grounds for termination- then you can’t complain if you get fired for using drugs. It’s that simple. That’s just basic accountability. You have an agreement with your employer.


I can understand certain professions testing for weed I suppose, but it's surprising to me that it is still so prevalent.

Again, I live in the California bubble where these things have been evolving for years and now we have full legalization. We still havent fallen into the sea...yet.

[redir]

Wait... You work in the pharmaceutical industry and you are calling people who smoke weed drug attics? LOL Good lord.

[tommyrod74]

Welcome to the real world, ****head

The other douchbag wanted to know if companies tested for pot smoking. I provided facts to that point.

So, **** you

My comment was spurred by your use of "snowflake" earlier in the thread. Just thought it was a bit ironic given your high level of sensitivity to what others do when not at work, in their private lives.

But I probably gave you a bit too much credit when I thought you might 1) appreciate irony and 2) be able to laugh at yourself a bit. My apologies for giving you the benefit of the doubt.

[Rusty Luggs]

I can understand certain professions testing for weed I suppose, but it's surprising to me that it is still so prevalent.

Again, I live in the California bubble where these things have been evolving for years and now we have full legalization. We still havent fallen into the sea...yet.

I don't think there really is any substantial California "bubble" when it comes to employment law. Everything I have read says that employers in CA are not required to accommodate marijuana use, even including medical marijuana use, that they can drug test for marijuana as a condition of employment, can have zero tolerance policies that allow for termination of employment, etc.

[unterhausen]

I can understand certain professions testing for weed I suppose, but it's surprising to me that it is still so prevalent.
lots of states have pretty draconian laws about who can work at a school. I have heard of places where hiring for school construction projects was very difficult because the workers either smoked pot or had dui's, both of which are disqualifying. And I know a civil engineer who occasionally gets assigned to projects where pot testing might be done so they have to stop smoking pot for a couple of months before going on-site.

[earlfoss]

Defending the weed like they're addicted or something

[livingminimal]

I don't think there really is any substantial California "bubble" when it comes to employment law. Everything I have read says that employers in CA are not required to accommodate marijuana use, even including medical marijuana use, that they can drug test for marijuana as a condition of employment, can have zero tolerance policies that allow for termination of employment, etc.

Thats very true, and I know its something that we are struggling with as a state. I think that less employers are testing for it, or are paying it mind if the test comes back positive.

[GregL]

I continue to be amazed by the number of people who fail pre-employment drug tests. I have friends and family in several industries that have told me they have a difficult time finding qualified employees because they cannot (or will not) pass a drug test. If you cannot stay away from marijuana for the time necessary to allow the metabolites to clear your system, reputable websites (https://www.mayomedicallaboratories.com/test-info/drug-book/marijuana.html) indicate you may be a "moderate" to "chronic heavy" user.

This is NOT a judgment on my part. If someone wants to use cannabis on their own time, that's their choice. If however their use violates legal prohibitions (e.g., DUI) or workplace rules, that's the risk they take.

Greg

[kevinvc]

There was a story here (http://www.wweek.com/news/2018/02/28/a-school-employee-was-assured-he-could-use-a-cbd-tincture-and-still-pass-a-drug-test-he-didnt/)a little while ago about a school bus driver who lost his job after testing positive. He had been using legally purchased CBD oil (no psychoactive qualities) to treat his arthritis. The sad thing is the driver says he specifically asked about whether it would trigger a positive result on a test and that he would lose his job if it did. The idiot working at the store assured him that its use would not show up on a drug test.

By all accounts, he was acting in good faith treating an ailment with an effective and legal product. He got bad information and lost his job of 18 years, which was his sole source of income and provided health insurance for him and his daughter.

The guy isn't fighting his firing since he admits he had a positive test. He's understandably upset that he wasn't violating the spirit of the drug ban and that he was told by a "professional" that he was on safe footing.

Personally, I think it's a stupid prohibition and there's no reason that marijuana should be a Schedule I drug, even for recreational use. I personally don't use it, but I'd generally rather be around people who have smoked pot than someone who has had too much to drink.

[earlfoss]

There was a story here (http://www.wweek.com/news/2018/02/28/a-school-employee-was-assured-he-could-use-a-cbd-tincture-and-still-pass-a-drug-test-he-didnt/)a little while ago about a school bus driver who lost his job after testing positive. He had been using legally purchased CBD oil (no psychoactive qualities) to treat his arthritis. The sad thing is the driver says he specifically asked about whether it would trigger a positive result on a test and that he would lose his job if it did. The idiot working at the store assured him that its use would not show up on a drug test.

By all accounts, he was acting in good faith treating an ailment with an effective and legal product. He got bad information and lost his job of 18 years, which was his sole source of income and provided health insurance for him and his daughter.

The guy isn't fighting his firing since he admits he had a positive test. He's understandably upset that he wasn't violating the spirit of the drug ban and that he was told by a "professional" that he was on safe footing.

Personally, I think it's a stupid prohibition and there's no reason that marijuana should be a Schedule I drug, even for recreational use. I personally don't use it, but I'd generally rather be around people who have smoked pot than someone who has had too much to drink.

That really sucks for that guy. Though if my job was on the line, I might talk with my Dr and go with their advice on whether I'll test positive than a store employee.

Further in the article: "Even the tincture's manufacturer, Sun God Medicinals in Eugene, warns against using its product in advance of a drug test. "We would never recommend to anybody that they use our product if they are subject to a drug test," says Mark Weir, the company's operations manager."

uh... I guess when you're the one in pain you will tend to hear the things you want to hear. I think that's a human trait we all share.

This is the quote that really chafes: "

Yet that's what Green Mart, the Beaverton store where Anderson bought his tincture, told him. Jami Arvon, manager of Green Mart, confirms that she recommended the product, knowing Anderson was subject to random drug tests.

"I genuinely believe Sun God's product is not the reason why he failed," she says. "If it is, I'm not a scientist, but I have anecdotal-only evidence that this product will not make you fail a drug test."

[joosttx]

There was a story here (http://www.wweek.com/news/2018/02/28/a-school-employee-was-assured-he-could-use-a-cbd-tincture-and-still-pass-a-drug-test-he-didnt/)a little while ago about a school bus driver who lost his job after testing positive. He had been using legally purchased CBD oil (no psychoactive qualities) to treat his arthritis. The sad thing is the driver says he specifically asked about whether it would trigger a positive result on a test and that he would lose his job if it did. The idiot working at the store assured him that its use would not show up on a drug test.

By all accounts, he was acting in good faith treating an ailment with an effective and legal product. He got bad information and lost his job of 18 years, which was his sole source of income and provided health insurance for him and his daughter.

The guy isn't fighting his firing since he admits he had a positive test. He's understandably upset that he wasn't violating the spirit of the drug ban and that he was told by a "professional" that he was on safe footing.

Personally, I think it's a stupid prohibition and there's no reason that marijuana should be a Schedule I drug, even for recreational use. I personally don't use it, but I'd generally rather be around people who have smoked pot than someone who has had too much to drink.

it is going to be interesting how this all gets dealt with soon. i almost cut my finger off this weekend (broke a bone and got 9 stitches). the hospital pain management was elevation not drugs. the point is opioids are on their way out as pain management. two friends suggested i just go to the dispensary to deal with the pain.

as i said earlier the decision to drug test is a bottomline / insurance as much as it is a moral or safety issue in the white collar world. however when pharma gets involved (which i read today a pharma co gained approval to advance a shrub therapy) the insurance underwriters are going to be revisiting this issue.

[earlfoss]

it is going to be interesting how this all gets dealt with soon. i almost cut my finger off this weekend (broke a bone and got 9 stitches). the hospital pain management was elevation not drugs. the point is opioids are on their way out as pain management. two friends suggested i just go to the dispensary to deal with the pain.

as i said earlier the decision to drug test is a bottomline / insurance as much as it is a moral or safety issue in the white collar world. however when pharma gets involved (which i read today a pharma co gained approval to advance a shrub therapy) the insurance underwriters are going to be revisiting this issue.

I agree with you on that point. Change is certainly coming, and I'm curious to see where it goes. Very happy to see opioids being phased out.

[ntb1001]

We have random testing where I work. Being deemed safety critical, if you fail...you lose your job. We have had several 20 year supervisors fired for seemingly small infractions like Tylenol 3's , but a fail is a fail.
The onus is on you to understand what you are taking, and to report to the company what you are taking if you are unable to stop. They will find a different job for you...may not be great...but at least you stay employed.



Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

[joosttx]

I agree with you on that point. Change is certainly coming, and I'm curious to see where it goes. Very happy to see opioids being phased out.

I wasn't for about 12 hours :)

[kevinvc]

That really sucks for that guy. Though if my job was on the line, I might talk with my Dr and go with their advice on whether I'll test positive than a store employee...

Yet that's what Green Mart, the Beaverton store where Anderson bought his tincture, told him. Jami Arvon, manager of Green Mart, confirms that she recommended the product, knowing Anderson was subject to random drug tests.

"I genuinely believe Sun God's product is not the reason why he failed," she says. "If it is, I'm not a scientist, but I have anecdotal-only evidence that this product will not make you fail a drug test."

Based on this and other articles on the incident, the guy comes across as naive, but doesn't give the impression he was trying to get away with something. Considering the potential side effects of long term use of NSAIDS, I see no reason to forbid the use of CBD. Still, he owns up to it and isn't fighting his firing. In my opinion, the school district should give him a one-time pass if it is legally possible for them to do so. They don't come across as at all sympathetic, but it might be for legal reasons.

[azrider]

Good ole Rick Steve's says it best.

https://s.hdnux.com/photos/44/43/11/9581130/4/920x920.jpg

[gasman]

I just caught up with this thread. User ripvanrando -you have earned a 2 week timeout for inappropriate messaging and "being a jerk".
I've sent you a PM

tommyrod74 I've also sent you a PM

[Mikej]

Out of curiosity, how many employers require hair samples for drug tests now?
And how far back does this work for spotting whatever it is they are testing for?

[phutterman]

This thread was way better when it was (somehow?) about Santucci's totally unrelated bike throw.

[azrider]

Out of curiosity, how many employers require hair samples for drug tests now?
And how far back does this work for spotting whatever it is they are testing for?

I think it's too cost prohibitive. Urine is the norm.

[mtechnica]

Most employers do a UA. The company I work for (in WA) recently announced their random drug tests will not test for MJ. Nobody is sure whether or not you will be fired if you cause an accident and MJ is found during your post accident drug test. (MJ can stay in your system for a week or more after ingestion). We are in uncharted territory at the moment and companies are still figuring out how to handle this.

[ntb1001]

For us, the levels are Zero tolerance while at work, just like alcohol. Trace amounts from usage don't matter...it doesn't matter if you use...just as long as you're clear when you are at work.

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[Black Dog]

For us, the levels are Zero tolerance while at work, just like alcohol. Trace amounts from usage don't matter...it doesn't matter if you use...just as long as you're clear when you are at work.

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This is a rational policy. Usage, in general, does not imply impairment while on the job. This will become more widespread in Canada once we decriminalize and legalize usage in the near future.

[redir]

Good ole Rick Steve's says it best.

https://s.hdnux.com/photos/44/43/11/9581130/4/920x920.jpg

LOL that's hilarious. It's funny how he puts it in a wine glass too. Honestly I don't smoke the stuff but I really do love the smell of it. After a really hard bike race the other day we went out to eat and there was some band playing and the smoke was wafting through the audience and it smelled great.

I'm not much of a wine connoisseur either but I can totally see smoking weed jsut for the taste and smell. After all that's why people drink right? Right?

[earlfoss]

LOL that's hilarious. It's funny how he puts it in a wine glass too. Honestly I don't smoke the stuff but I really do love the smell of it. After a really hard bike race the other day we went out to eat and there was some band playing and the smoke was wafting through the audience and it smelled great.

I'm not much of a wine connoisseur either but I can totally see smoking weed jsut for the taste and smell. After all that's why people drink right? Right?

Ricky looks blazed AF in that pic

[kevinvc]

For us, the levels are Zero tolerance while at work, just like alcohol. Trace amounts from usage don't matter...it doesn't matter if you use...just as long as you're clear when you are at work.

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How does that work? My understanding was that testing is not able to tell when someone consumed THC. I thought tests read basically the same for someone who smoked 24 hours before the test or immediately before it. That's why police can't use blood tests to prove marijuana impairment at the time of an accident, only that the person had used at some point prior.

[azrider]

LOL that's hilarious. It's funny how he puts it in a wine glass too.

The funniest part about Rick Steve's being a pothead, is the perception my Grandparents had of him. My Gparents were very God fearing, ultra conservative, straight and narrow, blah blah......but every Sunday they would literally race home from Church to catch Rick Steves on PBS so they could be transported to places they were unfamiliar with, and would always go on and on about how Mr. Steve's "was such a nice young man", obviously unaware of how he spent his free time.

When I learned later on that he was a stoner my head almost exploded

:p:p:p

[fignon's barber]

The funniest part about Rick Steve's being a pothead, is the perception my Grandparents had of him. My Gparents were very God fearing, ultra conservative, straight and narrow, blah blah......but every Sunday they would literally race home from Church to catch Rick Steves on PBS so they could be transported to places they were unfamiliar with, and would always go on and on about how Mr. Steve's "was such a nice young man", obviously unaware of how he spent his free time.

When I learned later on that he was a stoner my head almost exploded

:p:p:p


God, I hate that show. He makes even the coolest places seem so boring. Bordain for the win.

[benb]

Can't believe I clicked on this again.

MJ might not be that bad, but since it's been legalized here in Massachusetts (but I couldn't possibly figure out where you can actually buy it yet) one thing I am noticing is I can smell a few cars that are obviously "fishbowled" every single bike ride. We're not talking about a subtle amount of smoke here.

It seems there are plenty of people who are ignoring the fact that the law doesn't say you can get high while you drive. I was pretty firmly on the legalization side and somewhat agree it's probably better than all the alcohol use, there's no way I think it's safe to get stoned and drive.

My wife was telling me she has a 25%+ failure rate for pre-employment drug testing that makes it a lot harder to hire people in her field. She hires in MA and NC, but I'm pretty sure they don't allow MJ in either state, but lots of the failures were/are for opioids anyway.

[PQJ]

It's legal to drink alcohol and then drive, though not legal to have BAC go over a certain threshold. I don't know if a similar test exists with respect to pot, but the same logic should apply to a legal intoxicant, regardless of the intoxicant. I will say this, though - far better to get in a car with someone who is stoned than drunk. A stoner will likely drive real slow and careful, or not at all, while the drunkard will not exhibit the same restraint.

[azrider]

God, I hate that show. He makes even the coolest places seem so boring. Bordain for the win.

Yeah it's pretty brutal. I too am big Bourdain fan. Though both are exceptional, I think "no reservations" has slight edge over Parts Unknown. I think PU got to be waaayyy over produced but that's just me.

A stoner will likely drive real slow and careful, or not at all, while the drunkard will not exhibit the same restraint.

https://media.giphy.com/media/lhA6KADOTedOM/giphy-facebook_s.jpg

[unterhausen]

It's legal to drink alcohol and then drive, though not legal to have BAC go over a certain threshold. I don't know if a similar test exists with respect to pot, but the same logic should apply to a legal intoxicant, regardless of the intoxicant.
they have a roadside test in Colorado. Apparently it's sensitive to level. At least this is what I have heard from otherwise reliable potheads that traveled there and were careful to have a designated driver.

Okay, looked it up, now I'm confused. The law specifies a level of active THC. The one thing that does seem clear is that places that have legalized pot are much more likely to arrest a driver for DUI, usually after a period where everybody gets tired of the problems caused.

[ntb1001]

How does that work? My understanding was that testing is not able to tell when someone consumed THC. I thought tests read basically the same for someone who smoked 24 hours before the test or immediately before it. That's why police can't use blood tests to prove marijuana impairment at the time of an accident, only that the person had used at some point prior.I don't know the science behind it...but they are able to tell levels I believe. They can determine when it was taken, and can determine how many hours have passed by levels .
I don't pretend to understand...just that if I even have as much as a prescription cough syrup...I don't go to work.



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[redir]

The funniest part about Rick Steve's being a pothead, is the perception my Grandparents had of him. My Gparents were very God fearing, ultra conservative, straight and narrow, blah blah......but every Sunday they would literally race home from Church to catch Rick Steves on PBS so they could be transported to places they were unfamiliar with, and would always go on and on about how Mr. Steve's "was such a nice young man", obviously unaware of how he spent his free time.

When I learned later on that he was a stoner my head almost exploded

:p:p:p

He was a very nice boy...
He used to cut my grass...

~FZ

:D

[benb]

Here any detectable level of pot will get you a DUI.

We're letting people smoke up to their hearts content as long as the Feds don't come after them, the least they can do is stay off the roads.

I don't really care about what potheads think of their driving skills vs drunks. They're all supposed to not drive. No double standard.

[GregL]

I don't really care about what potheads think of their driving skills vs drunks. They're all supposed to not drive. No double standard.
^^^^THIS^^^^

I respect individual rights. If someone wants to drink alcohol or use marijuana products on their own time, not affecting others, I have no right to object. As soon as they put other persons' lives or safety at risk, it's a no-go. No one has the right to operate a vehicle or bicycle on public roads (or in competition) if their abilities are impaired. In my little corner of the world, this is non-negotiable.

Greg

[livingminimal]

^^^^THIS^^^^

I respect individual rights. If someone wants to drink alcohol or use marijuana products on their own time, not affecting others, I have no right to object. As soon as they put other persons' lives or safety at risk, it's a no-go. No one has the right to operate a vehicle or bicycle on public roads (or in competition) if their abilities are impaired. In my little corner of the world, this is non-negotiable.

Greg


I'm for a full elimination of marijuana prohibition, but fully and completely agree with this post. No operation of bikes, machinery, motor vehicles.

[tommyrod74]

I'm for a full elimination of marijuana prohibition, but fully and completely agree with this post. No operation of bikes, machinery, motor vehicles.

Yeah, signed as well.

[Fivethumbs]

I've noticed that ever since marijuana became legal in CA, I smell it a lot more around town in L.A. On multiple occasions I smelled it coming from the car in front of me when I was driving.

[Hellgate]

Colorado is the same. I can't stand the smell of the stuff.

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[GregL]

Slightly OT: 34 years ago, I assisted in the initial investigation of a plane crash (https://www.upi.com/Archives/1984/03/17/Crash-kills-two-burns-3500-pounds-of-marijuana/1395448347600/) near the airport where I worked. A WWII vintage Lockheed Lodestar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Model_18_Lodestar) had crashed about 1 mile off the end of a runway. It had iced up while making an illegal instrument approach late at night. As it approached the runway, it stalled and crashed nearly vertically in a forest. I was one of the first people at the crash site. As a commercial pilot and aeronautic engineer, I was asked to assist the state police officers.

The aircraft was completely destroyed. Both pilots were killed on impact. The only thing intact? 36 bales of MJ. The 37th bale had broken open and caught on fire. Imagine a 100lb bale of MJ on fire with a local fireman occasionally spraying it with water. Between the smoke and the steam, every person on the scene had a contact high of epic proportions. By the time I left, my head ached and I'm pretty sure I never was able to get the stench out of my clothes. Good thing I wasn't pulled over or had to take a drug test for a while!

Greg

[54ny77]

That was awesome!

I think it was Red Hook crit, right?

For style points: definite 10 out of 10.

:cool:

This thread was way better when it was (somehow?) about Santucci's totally unrelated bike throw.

[Bruce K]

This one has wandered a bit far from the OP and, based on member feedback to the moderator team, it’s time to move on.

BK