Headset race brinelling

[dsillito]

Hey all,

I have had a couple of old Campy headsets kicking around that I couldn't part with, despite brinelling in the races causing that lovely "indexed steering" sensation. I had a plan in the back of my mind to rehabilitate them, and finally got around to attempting it, and thought I'd share the results in case anyone else is in the same boat.

I made a tapered wooden "chuck" to press-fit the cups and races onto in my drill press, and then used fine sandpaper to take the metal down. I think I moved from 600-2000 grit, and then finished off with some paste metal polish.

For the races, I wrapped strips of sandpaper around a thin tapered paintbrush handle, and approximated where the diameter of the balls would correspond. For the cups, I just folded the paper over my little finger and tried to press lightly and evenly.

It seems to have worked quite well. Everything feels smooth. Much better than it was anyway. Actually functional.

Goes to show how parts can often be repaired, rather than chucked and replaced at the first sign of wear :D

[ultraman6970]

works really well eh? :)

We did something more Hmm... Neanderthal back in the day but worked and extended the life of the things a lot...


I even remember some guys were buying cheap chinese track hubs, sanding the races and then putting campagnolo cones in them, better than the real thing :)

[charliedid]

Nice work. I great friend who owns a shop will commonly resurface cones with a Dremel tool.

[Ralph]

if you haven't already done this.....the way we fixed that years ago was to install loose balls instead of the caged ones. Fill cup with grease and pack balls all around close together, then take one back out. Allowed a few more balls, spread the load around better, and the balls sat in a different spot. Couldn't tell was damaged after doing that.

[Peter P.]

Great story, and great photos; the races look better than new!

Here's a tip to keep them lasting longer than whatever you've experienced in the past.

Prior to every ride, rotate the bars from one end of rotation to the other. Takes 3 seconds. This spreads the grease around the race. Typical riding removes the grease from around the bearing contact points, which is the prime reason for headset failure.

I can't find the original post, but Jobst Brand explains what really causes headset bearing failure HERE (https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/indexed-steering.html).

My suggestion above was from a Jobst Brandt post, but I can't find the source. I've been following that practice for years and haven't had to touch any of the headsets on my bikes, which is immensely longer than my prior experience.

[zmudshark]

Great story, and great photos; the races look better than new!

Here's a tip to keep them lasting longer than whatever you've experienced in the past.

Prior to every ride, rotate the bars from one end of rotation to the other. Takes 3 seconds. This spreads the grease around the race. Typical riding removes the grease from around the bearing contact points, which is the prime reason for headset failure.

I can't find the original post, but Jobst Brand explains what really causes headset bearing failure HERE (https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/indexed-steering.html).

My suggestion above was from a Jobst Brandt post, but I can't find the source. I've been following that practice for years and haven't had to touch any of the headsets on my bikes, which is immensely longer than my prior experience.

Good advice.

Unless one really needs one of those poorly designed C Record headsets, I'd just buy a new one for $50 +/-. I just bought a few, because they are cheap, and still (how much longer?) available. Headsets are consumables. If it's a rider, just replace. Show bike, I dunno.

[ultraman6970]

Some headsets are just no suitable for some bikes, no matter how much you want to put a new one in, nothing looks better than those C era campagnolo headsets, edco had something similar aswell.

Same with shimano same era headsets. modern headsets are just ugly to me.

[dsillito]

if you haven't already done this.....the way we fixed that years ago was to install loose balls instead of the caged ones. Fill cup with grease and pack balls all around close together, then take one back out. Allowed a few more balls, spread the load around better, and the balls sat in a different spot. Couldn't tell was damaged after doing that.


I've packed loose balls into headsets where I didn't have retainers, but it is good to know it can help remediate damaged ones. thanks for the tip!

[dsillito]

Good advice.

Unless one really needs one of those poorly designed C Record headsets, I'd just buy a new one for $50 +/-. I just bought a few, because they are cheap, and still (how much longer?) available. Headsets are consumables. If it's a rider, just replace. Show bike, I dunno.


I keep my bikes upstairs in my house, so the handlebar probably flops from one side to the other a couple of times automatically as I carry them down the hall, the stairs, and out the front door. Good to know it is doing some good! :)

As far as buying new goes, I try to minimize that as much as possible. The current 'disposable commodity' mindset is moving us toward a world of trouble.

[dsillito]

Some headsets are just no suitable for some bikes, no matter how much you want to put a new one in, nothing looks better than those C era campagnolo headsets, edco had something similar aswell.

Same with shimano same era headsets. modern headsets are just ugly to me.


I've always been curious about the Stronglight roller bearing headsets. Seems logical to have more surface area of contact in that spot.

Anecdotally, I have a Dura-Ace BB (7700) where the (thankfully replaceable) ball bearing race needed to be replaced, whereas the roller bearing side showed no signs of wear.

[jemoryl]

Back in the day, the way to do this was to use some loose, sacrificial, balls and to replace the grease with valve lapping compound, assemble and spin with a drill until smooth. Never tried it myself, but sounds like it might work.

[David Kirk]

I worked at a shop when these headsets were popular and we always tossed the caged bearings and packed loose ones in and they then lasted as they should have.

dave

[ultraman6970]

I had some of those and they work ok, never seen one with problems.

I've always been curious about the Stronglight roller bearing headsets. Seems logical to have more surface area of contact in that spot.

Anecdotally, I have a Dura-Ace BB (7700) where the (thankfully replaceable) ball bearing race needed to be replaced, whereas the roller bearing side showed no signs of wear.

[Ralph]

I used Stronglight roller bearing headsets on several Paramounts. They last a long time, don't wear out. I also thought they had more friction than a standard ball headset. Think I prefer balls.

[dsillito]

I used Stronglight roller bearing headsets on several Paramounts. They last a long time, don't wear out. I also thought they had more friction than a standard ball headset. Think I prefer balls.

I've wondered a bit at the effect of the degree of "free turn" of a headset. It seems like a place where you could have really thick grease, and lots of seal drag and never really notice, as the handlebars never really turn that far at speed. It has always surprised me at how exposed the bearings are in the lower cup. I remember those neoprene covers you could get to protect them on your MTB back in the day.

I find it mildly annoying when the handlebars on my fixed gear flop around and the bars knock the top tube. A bit more resistance there might not be a bad thing.

Some engineering Ph.D. student needs to make a variable resistance headset, and do some double-blind testing, ha.

[benb]

Thanks for expanding my vocabulary. I knew what you were talking about but had never heard the term "brinelling".

Always nice to fix rather than throw away and replace.

[Mark McM]

I find it mildly annoying when the handlebars on my fixed gear flop around and the bars knock the top tube. A bit more resistance there might not be a bad thing.

I assume that this happens when the bike is parked (since steering the front wheel that far when riding would result in an instant endo)? In that case, there's already a product - the Rhode Gear Flick Stand:

http://gearinches.com/images/misc/flickstand2.jpg



Some engineering Ph.D. student needs to make a variable resistance headset, and do some double-blind testing, ha.

Well, there are already commercially available steering dampers, which basically add additional drag to the headset. Here's one:

http://www.hopey.org/

Two common applications for steering dampers are for riding on very rough surfaces (the damper limits how much the front wheel steering can be knocked off center), and to prevent high speed shimmy (this application is more common on motorcylcles).

[dsillito]

I assume that this happens when the bike is parked (since steering the front wheel that far when riding would result in an instant endo)? In that case, there's already a product - the Rhode Gear Flick Stand:

http://gearinches.com/images/misc/flickstand2.jpg


Well, there are already commercially available steering dampers, which basically add additional drag to the headset. Here's one:

http://www.hopey.org/

Two common applications for steering dampers are for riding on very rough surfaces (the damper limits how much the front wheel steering can be knocked off center), and to prevent high speed shimmy (this application is more common on motorcylcles).

Wow, I've never heard of the dampers, very interesting. I do remember the "flick stands" from back in the day, but have never tried one. The handlebar flopping happens as I'm carrying the bike up and down the stairs with something else in my other hand. Not a big deal, really.

I'd love to see a "handlebar quick-turn endo front flip" with landing on the wheels happen. Surely some extreme mountain biker is working on it.