Has anyone gone from Campy 11s back to Campy 10s?

[jpritchet74]

I have had Campy 11s EPS on my road bike for a couple of years now - before that it was a few years on Di2 10 speed (but with Campy 10s levers - long story) - and before that it was a few several years on Campy 10s.

I recently built up a cross bike with Campy 10s and took it for a ride today for the first time and the whole ride I was just so pleased with how the levers felt in my hands. Shifting was crisp and perfect - never once did I yearn for the EPS shifting. The Campy 11s lever shape has always just felt "bleh" to me - one ride on the 10s levers and now I am completely in love and considering getting my main bike built with a Campy 10s group.

The obvious downside is losing that 1 extra gear - which I do admit is really nice, but I certainly don't need it. There are always new cassettes available on eBay, so I don't see that as a real issue.

So is this just me or has anyone else wanted to do this?

Of course aside from my full v3 EPS group I have an extra set of Record EPS levers and derailleurs as well as a full Record 11 mech group sitting around. But that's what the classifieds are for, right?

[AngryScientist]

i agree, that for me personally, the 10-sp campy hood shape was/is my favorite of all time. i like the 11-sp ergonomics just fine, but the 10-sp ones just felt a little better in my hands.

i have a couple bikes still running 10-sp campy and they all shift and perform excellently.

the biggest advantage of 11-sp, by FAR for me is the cross compatibility to 11sp shimano cassettes. most of my wheels now have shimano freehubs, and i just run ultegra level cassettes on my campy-11 bikes. it's a beautiful thing to switch wheels around with ease, and have the availability of all sorts of casette ratios on the cheap.

campy 10 lacks those options.

it's all good though.

[choke]

I have one 11sp bike and several 10sp ones. I also prefer the shape of the 10sp hoods and I don't ever see myself replacing them with 11sp. The only reason that the one bike has 11sp is that it was purchased that way....I would have never built it up with 11.

As for the extra gear on the cassette, it's pretty worthless for me. My 10sp cassettes all start with a 13T while the 11sp starts with a 12 so that extra gear is one that I almost never use.

[thwart]

I've made the switch back to 10 spd Campy on all of my bikes.

Well... not exactly true... the only bike I own with 11 spd at this point is my 'rollers only bike'... :rolleyes:

It's all great stuff to be sure, but I like the more mechanical feel of the 10 spd internals. And the gearing differences between the two really is inconsequential for my riding.

It's really nice to be able to switch wheels around easily between bikes... for a few yrs I had about half and half 11 spd and 10 spd drivetrains... which was much more of a PITA.

The only other pertinent factor for me was back when I was doing some cyclocross... the 11 spd ergo shape is a little better for braking on bumpy downhills, IMO.

[Ralph]

I have stayed with 10 speed Campy (Centaur....new levers) because I prefer the 13-26 10's cassette better than any of the 11's. 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-26. I usually ride a 39-52 front around here, and don't have much use for a 12 tooth cog around here. 10's cassettes super cheap also.

My traveling bike is a triple...and on that I also prefer a 10's cassette. 30-42-52 front with a 13-29 or 13-30 rear (24-27-30 cogs pined together from a 12-30 instead of a 23-26-29 from the 13-29 cassette). Going down hill, I can pedal a 52X13 well over 30 MPH. That's enough. Usually coast down long steep hill anyway.

[raisinberry777]

Well, I'll go against the curve here and say that I prefer the Ergopower V3 lever shape. My other bike has the Ergopower V2 shape, although admittedly it did come with rather worn hoods and I'd be interested to see if it feels any nicer with new hoods.

I'd have no issue with using 10 speed if availability of compact cranks and wide range cassettes was better. Unfortunately unless you feel like splashing out $110 AUD for a Centaur 12-30 cassette your only options are a Veloce 13-29 (a little lacking at the top end if combined with a compact) or a Miche 12-29, which probably works fine but is difficult to find reports of.

[cmg]

the 10 spds shifters are more robust than the 11 spds. that and easier to find compatible stuff to mix with keeps me from converting all bikes to 11. i don't really notice the lack of 1 cog.

[shinomaster]

I have two campy ten bikes and one Record 11 and while the new stuff is lighter and smoother, it doesn't shift much better imho. The chorus from 2001 on my Serotta just seems to stay adjusted better and the rear down-shiftng is better too. I Was just looking to buy a 10 speed centaur cassette yesterday and they have become expensive and scarce. They were dirt cheap a few years ago.

[taz-t]

I have stayed with 10 speed Campy (Centaur....new levers) ... 10's cassettes super cheap also.


Where are these super cheap 10sp cassettes you speak of?

[rousseau]

Where are these super cheap 10sp cassettes you speak of?
Miche cassettes are $44 (CDN) at Ribble.
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/components/gears-drivetrain/cassettes/?dir=asc&manufacturer%5B0%5D=Miche&manufacturer%5B1%5D=Campagnolo&order=price_desc

I buy Miche all the time for my 10 speed bikes.

[Ralph]

Where are these super cheap 10sp cassettes you speak of?

E Bay....$50-$60 Maybe not super cheap. haven't priced most UK sites lately. Ribble not a good source anymore for many Campy parts, but Veloce 10's cassettes $40-$45. Veloce cassette shift same as hi end ones.

[kramnnim]

Dibs on the v3 EPS! :banana:

[kramnnim]

My first foray into Campy was with first gen 11 speed Chorus, tried 10 speed and never liked it. Love EPS.

[merckx]

I had campag. 11v hung on a bike for a few years, and then upgraded to campag. 9v. Best upgrade I've recently made.

[kramnnim]

Oh, and how did you use di2 with Campy levers?

[Mzilliox]

I mean geez, i probably have some Record 10s stuff around if ya need some instead of that 11 stuff, i thought id never find a better hood shape than 10s campy, then they gave me that lovely 11s shape...

[jpritchet74]

Oh, and how did you use di2 with Campy levers?

I looked thru some old photos and found this. The joy with the original 10s Di2 was that it was really easy to build your own buttons - the Cateye buttons (and still are as far as I know) the easiest to deal with - I loved the shifting of Di2 but I hated the Dura-Ace levers, so I spliced these buttons into the Di2 wiring harness and glued them to the Record levers.

(photo moved to page 4)

Right when I considered just going back to Campy 10s a friend of mine reverse engineered Di2 and created (as in completely from scratch) a front junction box that made it have sequential shifting - as in only needing buttons on the right lever. The front derailleur would shift on it's own depending on what gear you were in. Of course now you can get this with the current MTB Di2 group and maybe on the most current road Di2 group, but I was given this "prototype" about a year after the first Di2 came out. So I have been running this setup since about 2010. It's awesome to never have to think about shifting the FD. The little circuit board fits nicely inside of my stem too so it's really clean. I still have this setup on my race / group ride bike.

My TT bike has 10s Di2 as well - simply because it was the only way that I could get shift buttons at the right brake lever on the 3T ventus bars.

I went with Campy EPS v3 because they were supposed to have a sequential shifting setup - but what they have is absolute garbage compared to my old Di2 system. For Campy you shift the FD and then wait a full second or so for it to shift the RD for you. No point in that. So I have always just run it in a standard shift setup.

[jpritchet74]

I mean geez, i probably have some Record 10s stuff around if ya need some instead of that 11 stuff, i thought id never find a better hood shape than 10s campy, then they gave me that lovely 11s shape...

PM sent.

[R3awak3n]

I mean geez, i probably have some Record 10s stuff around if ya need some instead of that 11 stuff, i thought id never find a better hood shape than 10s campy, then they gave me that lovely 11s shape...

same here. I loved 10 and at first was apprehensive on 11 but after putting a few miles on 11, the levers just work better for my hands, much more ergonomic. Funny my biggest complaint about my etap is the shifter shape, reminds of of 10 speed campy but I really like 11 speed campy shape, nothing better.

[Hindmost]

I have adopted the Veloce power-shift levers because you can have the cool lever shape and run the old ten-speed stuff.

[Tickdoc]

I switch regularly between two bikes running 10 and three running 11 and I like them all for various reasons.

It’s all good in the hoods, I guess you could say.

Old 10 mix of record, chorus, veloce and Athena doesn’t jump shift but shifts like a brick ****house and is so satisfying.

Newer 10 record titanium is whisper quiet and just so smooth like butter.

Old 11 (2008-2014 mix? Sorry I don’t know the versionswell) super record/ record mix is just fine. More mechanical feeling and you can tell the components are lighter.

2014 super record rs group is the best....best looking but even better shifting, lightning quick, especially on the fd.

2015 super record group is almost as good. Fast like rs and light too.

I like the ergonomics of them all just fine with a preference towards record 10 best. Hoods are more slippery when wet on the 08-14 series, and much improved on the newest version.

[wombatspeed]

I always liked the old V2 ten speed ergoes, certainly compared to what shimano was offering at the time. But the V3 ergoes feel even better, especially racing cx and being on the hoods on sketchy sections. With V2 it often felt like my hands would fly forward off the hoods, though they hardly ever did ;-)

Now all my (and my family's) bikes have centaur or veloce v3 ultra shift 10 speed levers. Sadly they are getting hard to find. And I still like the 13-26 cassette better than any 11 speed ratios for my kind of road riding.

[shinomaster]

I always liked the old V2 ten speed ergoes, certainly compared to what shimano was offering at the time. But the V3 ergoes feel even better, especially racing cx and being on the hoods on sketchy sections. With V2 it often felt like my hands would fly forward off the hoods, though they hardly ever did ;-)

Now all my (and my family's) bikes have centaur or veloce v3 ultra shift 10 speed levers. Sadly they are getting hard to find. And I still like the 13-26 cassette better than any 11 speed ratios for my kind of road riding.

That cassette has an 18 and I like that too. It's not there on some 11 speed cassettes..

[FlashUNC]

11 speed shifters look horrid but are the most comfortable shape created by mankind.

I see no reason to go back to 10 when 11 shifts great, feels great, and I don't have to worry about G-springs or their carriers crapping the bed, like, regularly.

[oldpotatoe]

I have had Campy 11s EPS on my road bike for a couple of years now - before that it was a few years on Di2 10 speed (but with Campy 10s levers - long story) - and before that it was a few several years on Campy 10s.

I recently built up a cross bike with Campy 10s and took it for a ride today for the first time and the whole ride I was just so pleased with how the levers felt in my hands. Shifting was crisp and perfect - never once did I yearn for the EPS shifting. The Campy 11s lever shape has always just felt "bleh" to me - one ride on the 10s levers and now I am completely in love and considering getting my main bike built with a Campy 10s group.

The obvious downside is losing that 1 extra gear - which I do admit is really nice, but I certainly don't need it. There are always new cassettes available on eBay, so I don't see that as a real issue.

So is this just me or has anyone else wanted to do this?

Of course aside from my full v3 EPS group I have an extra set of Record EPS levers and derailleurs as well as a full Record 11 mech group sitting around. But that's what the classifieds are for, right?

When in the shop I always said, use the lever shape your hand likes the most..if they don't care, use Campagnolo.....:)

Nice thing is Campagnolo lever innards/small parts still easy to find(unlike S and S)...you can use 11s ders, 10s cogsets easy to find(geeez, Campag still making 8s cogsets)..11s chains are everywhere..so sure, use that Campag 10s stuff!!

[mcteague]

I have 10s Centaur on my older bike and 11s Chorus on the newer one. I MUCH prefer the more distinct clicks, when shifting, on the 11s stuff.

Tim

[colker]

I don´t care as long as it´s ultra and not power torque.

[oldpotatoe]

I don´t care as long as it´s ultra and not power torque.

I get that but 2015+ PT works and feels really good....droopy thumb button versions..

[OtayBW]

OK - So what is the consensus here? There probably is none.....
I rotate between Chorus 11 and SR 11, and Record 10 and Centaur 10, and for me, the 11 spd ergolevers are fantastic. The 10 spd shifting is much more decisive.

Go figure...

[Dave B]

I have a bike with an almost new 11speed chorus group. I prefer 10speed so much more. Wanted to sell/swap for some 10speed record, but then I thought I would only have to switch the shifters, cassette, and chain to make it into a mix/match 10speed set up. Am I right on this?

[oldpotatoe]

I have a bike with an almost new 11speed chorus group. I prefer 10speed so much more. Wanted to sell/swap for some 10speed record, but then I thought I would only have to switch the shifters, cassette, and chain to make it into a mix/match 10speed set up. Am I right on this?

Correct..shifters, cogset, chain..all else is compatible including ders and brakes(:))...For info, you can convert 11s RH ERGO to 10s..I have the bits.

[El Chaba]

I drew the line at 10 speed. Judging from the availability of service parts (Thank you, Campagnolo) quite a few other people are firmly in the 10 speed camp. In my opinion, the Campagnolo record and Chorus components from the 9 speed era are the finest that have ever been made, but the 10 speed ones are not far off....and some of the wear and tear parts are far easier to source.

[jpritchet74]

Correct..shifters, cogset, chain..all else is compatible including ders and brakes(:))...For info, you can convert 11s RH ERGO to 10s..I have the bits.

If only you could convert 10 speed levers to 11 speed easily....

I am making the jump back to 10 speed.

Do you guys know if I can use 11 speed chains with 10 speed?

[oldpotatoe]

If only you could convert 10 speed levers to 11 speed easily....

I am making the jump back to 10 speed.

Do you guys know if I can use 11 speed chains with 10 speed?

When I was in the shop, a guy sent me a 11s ratchet for 2008 and older ERGO, but never heard back..

Index systems depend on the chain being somewhat ‘grabbed’ but the next cog up...why there is all sorts of tooth prep to help that, particularly under load.
BUT depends on a certain width chain. Too narrow, not the best shifting, maybe not at all. Plus 11s chains more expensive than 10s...

[jpritchet74]

I just called Campagnolo USA about using the 11s chain with 10s and they said no. Bummer.

[iwantone]

If only you could convert 10 speed levers to 11 speed easily....

I am making the jump back to 10 speed.

Do you guys know if I can use 11 speed chains with 10 speed?

Yes, you can use 11sp chain with 10sp.
My current setup:
10sp: shifters, cassette
11sp: derailleurs, crankset, chain

[old_fat_and_slow]

I'm still stuck in the 00's. Never bothered to upgrade to Campy 11.

10 is sufficient for my old duffer needs. Currently running 10-speed Record and Chorus on four road bikes.

My most recent build (this year) got NOS Campy Record 10-speed installed. https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=215909

[jpritchet74]

I'm still stuck in the 00's. Never bothered to upgrade to Campy 11.

10 is sufficient for my old duffer needs. Currently running 10-speed Record and Chorus on four road bikes.

My most recent build (this year) got NOS Campy Record 10-speed installed. https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=215909

That's a gorgeous bike!

I just started buying my 10s Record parts - hopefully I have everything by the end of next week - then I can strip the Record EPS group from the bike and get the 10s stuff on there.

[dpk501]

i agree, that for me personally, the 10-sp campy hood shape was/is my favorite of all time. i like the 11-sp ergonomics just fine, but the 10-sp ones just felt a little better in my hands.

i have a couple bikes still running 10-sp campy and they all shift and perform excellently.

the biggest advantage of 11-sp, by FAR for me is the cross compatibility to 11sp shimano cassettes. most of my wheels now have shimano freehubs, and i just run ultegra level cassettes on my campy-11 bikes. it's a beautiful thing to switch wheels around with ease, and have the availability of all sorts of casette ratios on the cheap.

campy 10 lacks those options.

it's all good though.

Interesting...you must love the feel of the etap hoods then. They feel similar to me

[wallymann]

...i prefer the 13-26 10's cassette better than...

13-26 @ 10v...FTW!!! ;-)

[R3awak3n]

Interesting...you must love the feel of the etap hoods then. They feel similar to me

they indeed are, they are a bit thicker but feel similar. They feel good but I miss campy 11 when I ride the etap. That said, I am getting used to them and past 2 rides I have felt very comfortable on them.

[SuperColnago]

Have a 2010 Spectrum Ti with Record 10sp.
Finally did a long overdue tuneup with new Campy cables, and WOW, what a difference the 10sp is so responsive in shifting now what a difference from old jagwire cable-set.
Still shaking my head after a couple rides on how well the 10sp works, even with 7500 miles on it....almost seems nicer than brand new 2018 Record 11sp I just put on a MOOTS RSL...
No need for us scrubs to have 12sp.....

[paredown]

I'm still stuck in the 00's. Never bothered to upgrade to Campy 11.

10 is sufficient for my old duffer needs. Currently running 10-speed Record and Chorus on four road bikes.

My most recent build (this year) got NOS Campy Record 10-speed installed. https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=215909

Moi aussi...

For my project Look--I dug out an old Chorus 10 group, added a new-to-me Record cf crank and skeleton brakes (just for looks)--works for me.

Rebuild on the the CSi will be Centaur 10--but with that rare bird--new shape NOS Centaur Ultrashift alloy 10s (unless someone wants them a lot more than me--think $$$)
Dean

[lhuerta]

For those neo-retrogrouches who are hoarding 10sp Record groups and need one more for your closet (or upcoming build)....I got a complete one, in excellent condition.

Record carbon 10-speed, including square taper 175mm carbon crank (53-39), carbon levers, carbon rear and frt ders, non-skeleton differential brakes and ital BB.

Perhaps the intro of 12 speed just raised the street cred of old 10 speed groups?

PM for pics and details...

[C40_guy]

I don´t care as long as it´s ultra and not power torque.

Make it square taper for me. :)

I'm on Record 10 carbon compact, square taper. I prefer the esthetics and the stuff just works (except for the bottom brackets, so I use Phil Wood...)

[oldpotatoe]

Make it square taper for me. :)

I'm on Record 10 carbon compact, square taper. I prefer the esthetics and the stuff just works (except for the bottom brackets, so I use Phil Wood...)

But, but, but...square taper??? Never mind, good enough for the likes of Merckx, ‘Cipo, good enough for me.:)

[El Chaba]

But, but, but...square taper??? Never mind, good enough for the likes of Merckx, ‘Cipo, good enough for me.:)

....Also known as the "noiseless" bottom bracket....

[colker]

Make it square taper for me. :)

I'm on Record 10 carbon compact, square taper. I prefer the esthetics and the stuff just works (except for the bottom brackets, so I use Phil Wood...)

What´s wrong w/ the chorus sq taper BB?

[jpritchet74]

When I ran square taper it was always a Phil Wood BB. When the bearings wore out I could just get new ones installed so that was great. When SRM phased out the square taper power meters I went to other BB systems.

[jpritchet74]

For some reason this photo wouldn't post properly earlier in the thread. This is from my race / fast group ride bike. It has Di2 but with Campy Record 10 speed brake levers. The left shift lever was cut and epoxied to the back of the right brake lever for installation of the shift buttons

https://i.imgur.com/wSXqvZO.jpg

[Black Dog]

For some reason this photo wouldn't post properly earlier in the thread. This is from my race / fast group ride bike. It has Di2 but with Campy Record 10 speed brake levers. The left shift lever was cut and epoxied to the back of the right brake lever for installation of the shift buttons

https://i.imgur.com/wSXqvZO.jpg

That is awesome!

[C40_guy]

What´s wrong w/ the chorus sq taper BB?

After 20+ years on bulletproof Nuovo/Super Record bottom brackets that I could take apart, clean, regrease and adjust to be silky smooth, I was disappointed in the longevity of the newer BBs.

So I switched over to Phil Wood. They seem to last forever and stay smooth for a long time.

[R3awak3n]

That is awesome!

x2. bad ass.

[El Chaba]

After 20+ years on bulletproof Nuovo/Super Record bottom brackets that I could take apart, clean, regrease and adjust to be silky smooth, I was disappointed in the longevity of the newer BBs.

So I switched over to Phil Wood. They seem to last forever and stay smooth for a long time.

I take apart Record and Chorus square taper BB's all the time to replace the bearings. It's a false economy to perform the replacement without using top tier cartridges like SKF, etc...but it's no problem. the real limiting factor is the cups...You have to make sure during removal/installation that the tool is deeply inserted in the splines and doesn't slip as the steel tool is much harder than the alloy cups and it's not hard to damage the splines.

[Johnnysmooth]

I have two campy ten bikes and one Record 11 and while the new stuff is lighter and smoother, it doesn't shift much better imho. The chorus from 2001 on my Serotta just seems to stay adjusted better and the rear down-shiftng is better too. I Was just looking to buy a 10 speed centaur cassette yesterday and they have become expensive and scarce. They were dirt cheap a few years ago.

I have exactly the same set-up, even number of bikes and similar experience. 11-spd is a royal PITA to get perfectly tuned in the RD. That being said, do prefer the 11-spd ergo shifters - they just fit perfect to my hands. 10 spd are meh, more generic fit.

[jpritchet74]

That being said, do prefer the 11-spd ergo shifters - they just fit perfect to my hands. 10 spd are meh, more generic fit.

I am the exact opposite. Simply in LOVE with the 10 speed lever feel....

[Ralph]

You can still get new Veloce 10 speed shifters with newest style hoods and "droopy" shift buttons.....in both double and triple....black and silver (haven't seen any silver triple). Cheap too.

Sure....they are Power TQ.....but they shift great. Have never understood the bias against these shifters. My all Campy (Centaur) triple crank bike runs Power Tq 10 speed triple shifters with new style hoods. Med cage rear. Shifts great! Never have to trim.