Buy an S&S or retrofit?

[Veloo]

I find myself thinking about an S&S road bike more often these days as I get an itch to do a bit of travel and get in some riding.

Would those that have/ had one recommend finding an S&S from the start or finding a bike that has geometry that I like then retrofitting the couplers?

Also, it sounds like steel is the deal from some of my other posts and don't go crazy expensive as things can still get banged up in a hard case.

[Black Dog]

There are bike bags that are small enough to fit within the dimensions for checked bags and you will not be charged an oversized fee. Will fit your sized bike and way cheaper than a retrofit or used frame with S&S couplers. I can’t remember the company that makes them however.

[R3awak3n]

I really want to get a travel bike myself. I have thought about ssing one of my bikes but now I am looking for a breakaway. Ebauman had a good point on one of my threads about it being a great deal since you get a case (which normally costs $300-$400).

[eBAUMANN]

There are bike bags that are small enough to fit within the dimensions for checked bags and you will not be charged an oversized fee. Will fit your sized bike and way cheaper than a retrofit or used frame with S&S couplers. I can’t remember the company that makes them however.

orucase airport ninja
only works with smaller frames though.

[Black Dog]

orucase airport ninja
only works with smaller frames though.

Thanks.

[Veloo]

I ride a 56 frame. Would that fit?

Would you guys think that bag is safe for a Ti frame?

[R3awak3n]

and you have to really take the bike apart.

I predict though, and its not great, that in the future they are going to charge you $100 for any bag (I was just asked to pay $95, for an international flight too which is ridiculous).... they will probably all catch up with the scam.

[CaptStash]

Count my vote towards titanium and S&S. Finding a used frame to your liking and having it modified is likely to be more cost effective. I like the hard case and after somewhere around one-hundred flights (based on the number of TSA slips I keep in a pile) the only damage was a worn-out / damaged hinge (the airline paid for it to be replaced), and just recently a dented rim (it's still rideable so I ignore it - not sure which flight it happened on).

I like the titanium because I really don't have to worry even a little about paint and scratches. The frame got modified by Bilenky in 2011, and the whole deal included padded covers and bike box. All up it was about $1,000. I would expect it's a bit more now.

CaptStash....

[R3awak3n]

also that airport ninja bag. Its cool and all, but at $500.... You could almost buy a ritchey breakaway with that. Be easier to pack and put back together, its a travel bike so you don't have to worry about TSA doing their thing on the bike (your $2000 TI bike, do you really want to get it damaged by our friends at TSA?) I dunno, that case never made much sense to me at that price.

[Veloo]

I thought I read some comments that the Ritchey Breakaway didn't quite have the longevity of an S&S - ie the joining points weren't as robust.

[AngryScientist]

i had a frame chopped, and the last two years it has gone all over the damned place. checking it over tonight for an upcoming 2-week trip currently.

the cost effective strategy is to find a used S&S bike or breakaway bike that already comes with a case.

it really depends on how much you're going to travel though - the real cost effective strategy is to bikeflights ship your bike to your destination ahead of time and use the bike you already own to travel with.

as far as the system itself goes, i would definitely say S&S is a more robust system than Ritchey.

https://scontent-ort2-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/bc2923c9885c95a6a35c1231b75c2be2/5B709DF4/t51.2885-15/e35/23161666_2023659944535701_6379895990874275840_n.jp g

[donevwil]

For large bikes coupled or breakaway bikes are the only way to go. I too am curious how large a non-coupled bike fits into a legal sized case.

I thought I read some comments that the Ritchey Breakaway didn't quite have the longevity of an S&S - ie the joining points weren't as robust.

The only thing I'm aware of is the down tube coupler not being well suited to "as tight as you can" assemblers. I had a buddy unload his Ritchey and go S&S because he stripped too many of them, at the wrong times of course. Not an inferior design, just not as strip proof as the big S&S thread for the ham fisted crowd.

[VanBikeGuy]

For large bikes coupled or breakaway bikes are the only way to go. I too am curious how large a non-coupled bike fits into a legal sized case.



The only thing I'm aware of is the down tube coupler not being well suited to "as tight as you can" assemblers. I had a buddy unload his Ritchey and go S&S because he stripped too many of them, at the wrong times of course. Not an inferior design, just not as strip proof as the big S&S thread for the ham fisted crowd.

I'm sure that Bilenky can add a S&S coupler on just the downtube to correct this. Don't know the cost, but can't see it being too much.

I have a steel Gunnar Roadie with S&S in their 64cm size (232mm headtube, 62cm seat-tube). Because of the size, I use the Ritchey soft case as I found the hardcase too small for that size. I really want a Ti frame w/S&S, but not sure if the cost justifies my lack of travelling / use (would be my 3rd bike. I know I have the N+1 bug...)

[donevwil]

.....Because of the size, I use the Ritchey soft case as I found the hardcase too small for that size....

Similar issue with my 62 x 62 Potts, no go with the S&S 10" case so I picked up a Co-motion case I'll try soon. Regardless it wouldn't fit in any case if the Ritchey top coupler system were used, too long a TT.

[hollowgram5]

I've got a vaya travel and it seems a bit snug in the s&s case as well. I'd really like to pick up a ritchey case you travel with it instead.. if I can find one..

[Bradford]

Count my vote towards titanium and S&S. Finding a used frame to your liking and having it modified is likely to be more cost effective...

I would pick up a used ti Fierte and chop it. They aren't that expensive, can be set up for either long comfy rides or somewhat fast, and no paint to chip. I did that when I needed a travel bike for an Atlanta project; picked it up for short money, built it from the parts bin and ebay, and left it in Atlanta for a year. I'm into the bike for about $1,000 total and feel like it paid for itself just with the year it was in Atlanta. I've recently set it up as a fast commuter and will have it on the road as soon as my new client gets me my damn badge with bike parking and shower access.

In the end, I decided not to chop it because it will be cheaper to just ship the frame. I send the frame out of bike flights ($30 out on bike flights, $10 back on my clients FedEx account, which was really $0 since I never reimbursed them for it). Even at $60 per trip, it won't travel enough with it to justify the cost of couplers for the number of times I will fly it somwhere. It is a little cheaper for me because I already have the bike boxes from my coupled tandem, so I take the wheels and components with me on the plane and just ship the frame.

[eddief]

990 + 425 for couplers = custom steel travel frame.

https://www.curtlo.com/pricing.html

[R3awak3n]

990 + 425 for couplers = custom steel travel frame.

https://www.curtlo.com/pricing.html

how updated is this? still says they use true temper... unless they stocked a bunch of it, its no longer sold so I am wondering if these prices are still current. Not a bad deal for a new custom bike

[hokoman]

how updated is this? still says they use true temper... unless they stocked a bunch of it, its no longer sold so I am wondering if these prices are still current. Not a bad deal for a new custom bike

2011 Prices!!!

[donevwil]

990 + 425 for couplers = custom steel travel frame.

https://www.curtlo.com/pricing.html

Without a fork.

[Black Dog]

I ride a 56 frame. Would that fit?

Would you guys think that bag is safe for a Ti frame?

Ti is tough stuff. Once padded it would be hard to do any damage.

[dumbod]

i had a frame chopped, and the last two years it has gone all over the damned place. checking it over tonight for an upcoming 2-week trip currently.

the cost effective strategy is to find a used S&S bike or breakaway bike that already comes with a case.

it really depends on how much you're going to travel though - the real cost effective strategy is to bikeflights ship your bike to your destination ahead of time and use the bike you already own to travel with.

as far as the system itself goes, i would definitely say S&S is a more robust system than Ritchey.

https://scontent-ort2-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/bc2923c9885c95a6a35c1231b75c2be2/5B709DF4/t51.2885-15/e35/23161666_2023659944535701_6379895990874275840_n.jp g


You’re showing the easy part, the disassembled bike. What about packing the bike? :)

I like my S&S bike - Disassembly and reassembly are really easy. Packing the case requires a MS in engineering, particularly if you only do it once or twice a year.

To the original poster, I’ve had both a S&S-designed bike and one that’s been retrofitted. There’s no discernible difference. Realize though that a retrofit will look really odd if the tubes aren’t round. Steel works fine but naked Ti is better, particularly for a retrofit- naked Ti doesn’t have to be repainted and it won’t chip.

[eddief]

As I understand it while his website is somewhat dated I do believe those prices are current. Not sure about his tube supply but maybe worth a call.

how updated is this? still says they use true temper... unless they stocked a bunch of it, its no longer sold so I am wondering if these prices are still current. Not a bad deal for a new custom bike

[Hakkalugi]

I have used a case similar to the OruCase and have travelled without bag fees, but it is 4” over the dimension limit so I had to be extra nice to the gate agent. In order to fit a non-coupled frame inside you have to remove the fork.

I just bought a coupled frame from Waltly Titanium, and the price was very reasonable- under $1k for a custom coupled frame with extra bosses for racks, fenders, and frame bags. Plus, it’s disc and I am waving a fond farewell to rim brakes. I bought a Co-Motion case and travel was an absolute breeze. I’ll keep both cases, as there may be a time when I want to travel with my non-coupled bike.

One thing to keep in mind- traveling with centerlock discs is waaaaay better than 6-bolt.

[morrisericd]

I've been thinking about this a bunch as well. I travel with bike maybe 3 times a year. I have a Seven Axiom that I could chop. When I travel, I use a soft case. Probably 50% of the time I don't get charged extra fees (I have credit cards that cover regular baggage fees). When I do get dinged it's either $50 (Jet Blue) or $100 plus (United is the worst). At this point, I'm going to keep rolling the dice. I'm also a creature of habit. I can put my bike together in about 10 minutes with my soft case. I'm worried (no engineering degree here) that the coupled bike would take a lot longer.

[donevwil]

...(United is the worst)...

It's unanimous !!

[makoti]

I've done both (Retrofit & New). Can't say I noticed a difference in ride, but new did fit nicer in the case. If you go retrofit, it works better on tubes of uniform size. I did a CT1 with flaring tubes. Made the coupler location a bit odd. Worked fine, just fit in the case tighter.

[zennmotion]

I thought I read some comments that the Ritchey Breakaway didn't quite have the longevity of an S&S - ie the joining points weren't as robust.

That's just silly in real world terms. An extra Ritchey spare coupler is included if you purchase new and in any case would cost you less than 20 bucks if you needed a third one. I've not needed the spare that I always travel with in the 12 years I've had my Ritchey cross, dozens of trips and thousands of miles, probably half on unpaved and developing country road conditions. The main difference between Ritchey and S&S is the design limitations related to a set angle with the coupled seat lug- you're getting factory, not custom. S&S bikes are great too, but your bang for the buck is still a Ritchey steel model. Frame, fork, bag, frame and cable couplers all included for $1500 full retail and if you look around you can find them used or discounted. The powder coat is very robust too- yes I have chips and scratches but no more than any other gravel bike would that doesn't travel. I don't know that Ti would be any better except a bit of weight, and in the worst scenario steel can be cold set back (derailleur hanger, tweaked rear fork). The Ritchey case is easier to pack than the S&S case as well, the little bubble in the side of the case to fit the cassette makes life easier. You can travel with your bike in a box or big case of course, but you will pay much more, and it requires logistics planning at your destination- harder to fit in an Uber sedan, leaving the box behind at a hotel bag service while you credit card tour etc. I've never paid extra on dozens of domestic or international flights, and I always fly in the cheap seats- never say never but I don't worry about it. My Ritchey cross is a swiss army knife kind of do everything bike- road, gravel, light offroad, touring, whatever-it's nice to be able to do it all even on the same day with travel adventures. I actually ride it often even when not traveling, the cross version handles like a road bike with clearance for 38mm tires or so, maybe a bit more.

[PoppaWheelie]

I ride about a 58 and like the S&S system. I just had a bike built for me and I intend to daily it...the couplers don't add much weight. I re-purposed and eTap drivetrain and the lack of shifting cables really helps. I just came back from a trip and I just pulled the stem/bars off with the brake cables and calipers intact...super easy and makes packing a breeze. I also tried using a set of DT240 wheels this time...pulled the cassette and freehub body off as one piece which bought me an extra 3/4" in the case. Not really on topic, but I'm feeling pretty pleased...30 min into the case, 30 min to build it up and fine tune!

[PoppaWheelie]

In terms of chopping/retro-fit, I assume some consideration needs to be given to the existing butting in the tubes, no? I mean, I have to think a highly tapered wall probably isn't compatible with a chop/cut...

[marciero]

Was thinking about chopping a Ti frame. Bilenky would be my choice probably, but at ~ $1000, Ti is considerably more than steel. I already have two S&S cases for our tandem.
Recent solo trip I used a bike box (e-bikes has really nice cardboard boxes for pretty cheap, and good for 5-6 trips) thinking I would just pay the $150 outbound and bike flights on the return. But American Airlines did not charge me either way for the bike. The check-in attendant outbound told me if under 50lbs would count as checked bag. You can bet that I lightened up that thing on the spot putting heavier things in carry-on. The attendant even gave me scissors and tape. On the way back I mentioned the under 50lbs and they did not charge me. Also no checked-bag fee, I guess since I have an AA credit card.
I think I just lucked out though since their policy clearly states the oversize fee is $150.

[Ed-B]

The Raleigh Corporate site has a complete Ritchey Breakaway bike with Campagnolo Veloce that is available in 54,56,58 and 60cm sizes for $1,149.00 if you sign up for an online account.

https://www.raleighusa.com/grand-prix-27393

If you don't like the build or need a smaller size, the frameset alone is $839.00 and is also available in size 52cm.

https://www.raleighusa.com/frameset-grand-prix-22439

The bike bag is included either way. It's a Reynolds 520 steel frame, so nothing exotic, but it's a fairly inexpensive option for someone looking to get into a travel bike.

[Bob Ross]

Also, it sounds like steel is the deal from some of my other posts and don't go crazy expensive as things can still get banged up in a hard case.

Stuff definitely gets banged up ...or, even when your bike doesn't get totally abused by baggage handlers (see my diatribe elsewhere on this forum), dinged or nicked...so if I had to do it all over again I'd have my S&S coupled frame made from unpainted titanium.

[Bob Ross]

I like my S&S bike - Disassembly and reassembly are really easy. Packing the case requires a MS in engineering, particularly if you only do it once or twice a year.

Best thing the missus & I ever did with our S&S coupled bikes was upgrade them to electronic shifting. Now when we pack the bikes we completely remove the handlebars and put those in our respective carry-on bags. Not having to pack the bars in the S&S hard case with the rest of the parts knocks a good 10 - 15 minutes off the packing time.

[bikinchris]

I have a frame that was built with couplers and I pack it in an S&S case. A regular Silca Pista pump fits in the case with the bike. One day, I'm going to retrofit the frame with eTap to make the process quicker. It takes me about 20 minutes to unpack, unwrap and build up the bike including the racks for touring. My steer tube is too long to leave in the frame, so I have to take the fork out of the frame. I had Bike Friday split my bars for quicker and easier packing.

The S&S case is VERY sturdy and includes anti crush braces. You can also have it fitted to become a trailer. The owners of Bike Friday came down for a weekend tandem ride and dropped their carry on bags into the cases and rode away from the airport.

[dumbod]

Best thing the missus & I ever did with our S&S coupled bikes was upgrade them to electronic shifting. Now when we pack the bikes we completely remove the handlebars and put those in our respective carry-on bags. Not having to pack the bars in the S&S hard case with the rest of the parts knocks a good 10 - 15 minutes off the packing time.

Good idea - I’ll give it a try

[bigman]

The Raleigh is a very nice riding bike - clearance for 32's 28's w fenders - and if you search around the web it's less than the $1,649 sale price on the Raleigh website. I don't see the 1149 mentioned above

[Ed-B]

The Raleigh is a very nice riding bike - clearance for 32's 28's w fenders - and if you search around the web it's less than the $1,649 sale price on the Raleigh website. I don't see the 1149 mentioned above

You need to sign up for a "corporate account" to get that price. I did that last year and bought two adventure bikes, both were steeply discounted.

[mistermo]

That's just silly in real world terms. An extra Ritchey spare coupler is included if you purchase new and in any case would cost you less than 20 bucks if you needed a third one. I've not needed the spare that I always travel with in the 12 years I've had my Ritchey cross, dozens of trips and thousands of miles, probably half on unpaved and developing country road conditions. The main difference between Ritchey and S&S is the design limitations related to a set angle with the coupled seat lug- you're getting factory, not custom. S&S bikes are great too, but your bang for the buck is still a Ritchey steel model. Frame, fork, bag, frame and cable couplers all included for $1500 full retail and if you look around you can find them used or discounted. The powder coat is very robust too- yes I have chips and scratches but no more than any other gravel bike would that doesn't travel. I don't know that Ti would be any better except a bit of weight, and in the worst scenario steel can be cold set back (derailleur hanger, tweaked rear fork). The Ritchey case is easier to pack than the S&S case as well, the little bubble in the side of the case to fit the cassette makes life easier. You can travel with your bike in a box or big case of course, but you will pay much more, and it requires logistics planning at your destination- harder to fit in an Uber sedan, leaving the box behind at a hotel bag service while you credit card tour etc. I've never paid extra on dozens of domestic or international flights, and I always fly in the cheap seats- never say never but I don't worry about it. My Ritchey cross is a swiss army knife kind of do everything bike- road, gravel, light offroad, touring, whatever-it's nice to be able to do it all even on the same day with travel adventures. I actually ride it often even when not traveling, the cross version handles like a road bike with clearance for 38mm tires or so, maybe a bit more.

^^This. Failure spots WON'T be the couplers on either Ritchey or S&S. Failure spots will be dropouts, derailleur hanger, shifters, possibly wheels getting smashed. S&S bikes have those exact failure spots too.

[mistermo]

Best thing the missus & I ever did with our S&S coupled bikes was upgrade them to electronic shifting. Now when we pack the bikes we completely remove the handlebars and put those in our respective carry-on bags. Not having to pack the bars in the S&S hard case with the rest of the parts knocks a good 10 - 15 minutes off the packing time.

Front brake? Do you have a cable disconnect to it, or remove the front brake entirely? I'd love to be able to quickly remove handlebar, but so far, packing it is easier than removing or installing brake each time.

[Bob Ross]

Front brake? Do you have a cable disconnect to it, or remove the front brake entirely? I'd love to be able to quickly remove handlebar, but so far, packing it is easier than removing or installing brake each time.

We remove the front brake from the fork, leave it attached to the bars by its cable. We both find that trivial compared to trying to get the bars to fit in the case.

[bikinchris]

We remove the front brake from the fork, leave it attached to the bars by its cable. We both find that trivial compared to trying to get the bars to fit in the case.

That's why I had my handlebars split. They cut the bar in half and put an anti crush bushing inside that fits the two halves together and keeps them from twisting. It fits SO EASY in the case now.

[PoppaWheelie]

We remove the front brake from the fork, leave it attached to the bars by its cable. We both find that trivial compared to trying to get the bars to fit in the case.

This is exactly what I do too...between this and eTap the whole thing is super simple. I'm off to reassemble mine right now actually...just got home!

[mistermo]

That's why I had my handlebars split. They cut the bar in half and put an anti crush bushing inside that fits the two halves together and keeps them from twisting. It fits SO EASY in the case now.

Can you post pics of this? Hard for me to imagine.

[bikinchris]

Can you post pics of this? Hard for me to imagine.

4th row, second image:

http://www.vision.caltech.edu/pmoreels/Images/MtWilsonMay03/index.html

You can see how the left side fits inside the right side and the notches keep them from twisting once clamped into the stem. Cutting the bars would make them very easy to crush in the stem clamp, os the sleeve and bushing fixes that.

[VoyTirando]

We remove the front brake from the fork, leave it attached to the bars by its cable. We both find that trivial compared to trying to get the bars to fit in the case.

Every time I travel with my s&s bike, it's a wrestling match with the bars. My problem? It's a quill stem, the 'shorter' technomic with 120mm of reach. It's brutal getting it in, every time. I loosen the bolt and rotate the stem as I'm threading the bars in by the wheel. It 'work' but it takes forever to get it right.

I remove the front brake from the fork, too. I also pull the cassette.

My last trip I came back with a break-my-heart dime-size dent just below the seat tube water bottle bosses, thanks to something being packed wrong, plus TSA opening it (flight to NYC from Barcelona). Rides fine of course, but what with all the other chips and scratches I'm considering sending it to Groody Bros to fix the dent and powder coat.

I got my s&s frameset here, used. It's been really fun. Not my favorite frameset, but is paying for itself.

[makoti]

4th row, second image:

http://www.vision.caltech.edu/pmoreels/Images/MtWilsonMay03/index.html

You can see how the left side fits inside the right side and the notches keep them from twisting once clamped into the stem. Cutting the bars would make them very easy to crush in the stem clamp, os the sleeve and bushing fixes that.

This is brilliance. Who did that for you? I want.

[VoyTirando]

... make sure it´s really your size. I know, I know, I know, that´s obvious and we should all do that all the time. But couplered frames come up rarely, and coupling that (please don´t pardon the very intentional, very bad pun) with finding a second hand frameset that meets all the other things one might be looking for (short or longer reach, room for larger tires, longer seatstays for gravel, your particular size, etc), it makes for a rare coupled frame that really meets exactly what you´re looking for. I recently sprang for a coupled frame (here, in fact) that is absolutely beautiful and in most ways is perfect for what I was looking for. But it´s frankly a cm too small, and it´s never felt just right as a result. So, to cut to the chase, wait, and wait, and really wait until you find what you´re looking for.