PSA: Motorcyclists and Adaptive Cruise Control

[jamesau]

https://www.motorcycle-magazine.com/adaptive-cruise-control-cars-pose-motorcycle-risk/

Basically says if you're not riding near the center of the lane, a following ACC engaged car may not detect you. That's exciting!

We riders often choose to ride in the lead car's tire track because it may be closer to an escape and because we're less likely to encounter debris (that a lead car would both obscure and then straddle).

[David Tollefson]

Lane position changes with the situation. In most two-lane road situations, the best placement is in the left tire track, as you're more likely to be seen by oncoming traffic sooner when following another car (and thus avoiding the oncoming car making a left-hand turn into you).

[csm]

I ride like a prairie dog; assuming everything out there is out to get me.


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[Heisenberg]

I ride like a prairie dog; assuming everything out there is out to get me.


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This. Same mentality as when I'm on a bicycle.

Oddly, feel much safer on the bike with the engine.

[benb]

I obviously haven't tried many but I had a loaner Subaru back in November that had the "Eyesight" system that did lane departure, adaptive cruise, emergency stop, etc..

It did not inspire confidence... if you took your hands off the wheel it would act like it was going to go into a "ping pong" pattern going back and forth across the lane, alarming like crazy for you to put your hands off the wheel.

I did not have the guts to test out the adaptive cruise or slow speed auto-stop stuff as it gave no indication at all it was going to work and I kept chickening out and hitting the brakes.

And I'm a Masshole... I'm not really afraid of following too closely. I try to be safe but the norm around here is 8' is plenty at 90mph.

I think a lot of these systems out there aren't anywhere near good enough to do the right thing if one of us is cycling nearby.

[loxx0050]

I obviously haven't tried many but I had a loaner Subaru back in November that had the "Eyesight" system that did lane departure, adaptive cruise, emergency stop, etc..

It did not inspire confidence... if you took your hands off the wheel it would act like it was going to go into a "ping pong" pattern going back and forth across the lane, alarming like crazy for you to put your hands off the wheel.

I did not have the guts to test out the adaptive cruise or slow speed auto-stop stuff as it gave no indication at all it was going to work and I kept chickening out and hitting the brakes.

And I'm a Masshole... I'm not really afraid of following too closely. I try to be safe but the norm around here is 8' is plenty at 90mph.

I think a lot of these systems out there aren't anywhere near good enough to do the right thing if one of us is cycling nearby.

I own a Subaru with Eyesight. I've used the adaptive cruise control a few times and it works pretty well but have never encountered a motorcycle while it was still on (wouldn't be surprised if it had trouble recognizing it being a smaller target). But mine only warns me for lane assist (doesn't help me steer as mine is a 2014 model). You're still supposed to pay attention driving anyways even when using it. No excuse to pull what some Telsa owner's do with "Auto Pilot" which isn't even recommend by Tesla and downright dangerous to everybody around you too. I don't trust it to stop me in an emergency situation so haven't tested it out on purpose. It has slowed me down a bit a few times in some situations though (4-way stop sign shenanigans by rude people who go out of turn).

[benb]

Yah this was a 2018 Outback with everything loaded up on it.

I was deliberately testing it out with no one around me in the middle lane of a 3 lane highway... so I did take my hands off the wheel. I wouldn't have been trusting it to do that normally.

NO way I would have ever taken my hands off the wheel in a curve, it didn't seem like it could handle a straight line.

I did leave my foot right above the brake to see if it would stop me if I was going towards anything at like 5mph.. like I said I was chicken, it seems like it was going to let me hit an obstacle.

I think the thing with the Tesla is it is developed enough compared to a Subaru that it claims to actually be able to negotiate a curve so there were some people taking their hands off the wheel.

I am all for this stuff, can't wait, but the Subaru was not the bright shiny future.

I have a 2013 Outback, didn't purchase any of the Eyesight stuff... I even went to the trouble of getting a limited with no sunroof/backup camera to save money and have less stuff to break.

[loxx0050]

The thing with Tesla owners some admit to watching movies and completely not paying attention to the road using Auto-Pilot. Those are the dangerous folks I'm referring too because it is still an experimental system not fully approved for full autonomous driving. There is still no way autonomous driving at it currently stands can react as well a (most) people can in those kinds of situations.

But it is more advanced than Eyesight but Tesla takes a different approach than traditional automakers and seems pretty cool in essence. Just people tend to do stupid crap unfortunately.

I've got a 2014 nearly fully loaded Outback. Figured I'd get all the nice stuff while I was at it since I plan on driving this car for a long time (and my dealer offered a aftermarket lifetime of the vehicle warranty to cover those expensive electronic bits).

[Gummee]

This. Same mentality as when I'm on a bicycle.

Oddly, feel much safer on the bike with the engine.

Makes 2 of us. On the moto, all it takes is a twist of the wrist. On the bike, you're hosed 'cause you can't outsprint the problem.

...but perception is a funny thing, ain't it?!

I don't like riding with traffic on the moto. I'd much rather ride a titch faster and pick my spots to pass people. Moving thru traffic also keeps the brain-dead zombies from running up your rear end if/when something happens

M

[AngryScientist]

i've said this before and will say again: ACC is a terrbible, half baked idea, as well as any other in-between autonomous systems.

it HAS to be all or nothing. either fully autonomous, or fully driver controlled.

people have a hard enough time watching the road and paying attention to their entire situation in regular "dumb" cars.

giving people systems like ACC builds enough false confidence that they will pay attention that much less and be that much more dangerous when the anomaly arises. i'm no behavioral scientist, but it's pretty clear to me.

it's going to get worse out there before it gets better.

[unterhausen]

I feel like the Japanese car manufacturers are smart enough not to make these cars self-drive. My Toyota has "lane keeper assistant" and I'm convinced they want you to drive the car. They could make it self-driving if they wanted, but it's dangerous. Tesla is really taking a chance with the way their cruise control works.

I have followed a motorcyclist with my toyota,no problem. I think he was in the center of the lane though. Certainly doesn't make much sense to be in the right tire track. My car slows down for cars in an exit lane though, so it might work for a motorcycle in the right tire track.

I have a 2010, but I think it's great. I have no problem staying focused on driving. Not having to worry about adjusting the cruise control all the time is a really nice feature. Hopefully all of the cars have it by the time I buy my next car.

[benb]

I feel like the Japanese car manufacturers are smart enough not to make these cars self-drive. My Toyota has "lane keeper assistant" and I'm convinced they want you to drive the car. They could make it self-driving if they wanted, but it's dangerous. Tesla is really taking a chance with the way their cruise control works.

I have followed a motorcyclist with my toyota,no problem. I think he was in the center of the lane though. Certainly doesn't make much sense to be in the right tire track. My car slows down for cars in an exit lane though, so it might work for a motorcycle in the right tire track.

I have a 2010, but I think it's great. I have no problem staying focused on driving. Not having to worry about adjusting the cruise control all the time is a really nice feature. Hopefully all of the cars have it by the time I buy my next car.

You always want to be in the right tire track or nearer the edge of the lane on a motorcycle to reduce your chance of being hit from behind and pushed into the car in front of you.

Same thing on a bicycle.. if you're coming up to a stoplight in traffic don't take the lane and ride right down the middle of the lane where you have reduced ability to get out of the way if the car behind you decides not to come to a stop.

The middle of the lane is also where the cars drip their fluids when they're leaking, increasing your chance of sliding if you have to brake quickly.

Someone mentioned twisting your wrist motorcycling to get out of bad situations.. that's usually taught/recognized as unwise... always smarter to slow down and reduce your energy, which is something that works fine on a bicycle.

E.x. let the dumb/crazy driver in front of you instead of twisting the wrist to get ahead of them. If they're in front of you, you can keep them in front of you. If you ride off in front of them they can catch up later and hit you. Or you twist the wrist and then someone else pulls out in front of you while you're accelerating.

[pjbaz]

Makes 2 of us. On the moto, all it takes is a twist of the wrist. On the bike, you're hosed 'cause you can't outsprint the problem.

M

Exactly how I was struck on my roadbike in 03. Had I been on a motorcycle I would have twisted and escaped ...

[Gummee]

You always want to be in the right tire track or nearer the edge of the lane on a motorcycle to reduce your chance of being hit from behind and pushed into the car in front of you.Umm no. You want to be visible. If you're in the right tire track or further right, you're not visible. Mind you, you need to pay attention to where the threats are coming from. Sometimes, the right tire track IS the best place to be, but most often, the left tire track is both more visible AND allows oncoming traffic to see you faster.

I'm all over my lane depending on what's going on around me. I WANT to be mobile and seen. I WANT to have room to do the 'drunk cyclist's swerve' when coming up to left turners. I WANT to be able to stay out of blind spots. If you're RHUA and staying in the right tire track and not moving around, you're putting yourself in unnecessary risk. If you're not actively moving about in the lane or doing the 'drunk cyclist's weave' when coming up on left turning traffic, you're putting yourself in unnecessary risk. etc etc etc

I've noticed that a certain American 2-cylinde rmoto company's teachings echo what you said and I think it's about complete bunk. I've seen gaps in traffic that had a moto riding in the right tire track that if I wanted to turn left, the moto rider would be creamed cause they were effectively invisible.

'I'm riding on the right to stay as far away from traffic as possible in case someone drifts over the line.' Great. Now you've given up half your available manoeuvring room and if something happens, it's 'lay er down' or 'run off the road.' Neither are good options when you're on a moto. Regardless of what a certain style of riders claim is the 'safe thing' to do.

Same thing on a bicycle.. if you're coming up to a stoplight in traffic don't take the lane and ride right down the middle of the lane where you have reduced ability to get out of the way if the car behind you decides not to come to a stop.See above

The middle of the lane is also where the cars drip their fluids when they're leaking, increasing your chance of sliding if you have to brake quickly.This I agree with. Stay out of the 'stuff' on the road. It's slick

[quote[E.x. let the dumb/crazy driver in front of you instead of twisting the wrist to get ahead of them. If they're in front of you, you can keep them in front of you. If you ride off in front of them they can catch up later and hit you. Or you twist the wrist and then someone else pulls out in front of you while you're accelerating.[/QUOTE]If they're behind you, any and all mayhem they create doesn't affect you. Just like crashes in bike races. Let someone in a steel safety cage deal with it. If that driver is in front of you, you can still be caught up in any carnage. When cars start playing demolition derby, I don't want to be involved. At all.

If someone's pulling out in front of you from a side street or a left turn, you weren't riding as head's up as needed and making sure that they saw you. Riding in a straight line means you're invisible. Movement, especially lateral movement, attracts attention. No, you can't rely on that, but it does help. AMHIK

On a moto, you have the ability to move down the road and make sure there are cars between you and the bad driver. Use the properties of the moto to your advantage to get out of the situation. I'm not hanging around watching. The bad driver is going to be a spot in my mirrors ASAP. I have yet to meet a situation on the freeway where riding with traffic and not thru traffic is an advantage.

I've gone at least 100k miles in traffic without mishap. My moto is 2-wheeled transportation not a weekend toy. I'd rather be assertive on the moto and to an extent on the bicycle than passive and potentially in danger. ...but that's me. Ride how you want to ride.

M

[benb]

Yah the one case I subscribe to the "twist the wrist" thing is if you're the first vehicle stopped in traffic. If someone is out of control and is going to rear end you the motorcycle gives you that option and that's why obviously we're all taught not to leave a motorcycle in neutral stopped at a light.

But "zipping down the highway" to get away from someone generally implies big speed and such.. most of us riders did/do that but that big speed definitely increases your risk over the long run.

I'm not talking about not being assertive.

Example scenario, and you have surely run into this kind of Moto rider if you aren't this type yourself. Note I was always a sportbike/track rider not a cruiser guy. Most of what I'm talking about here is straight out of MSF and traffic studies, and I was always riding bikes that always made a triple digit getaway an easy thing.

You are minding your own business doing the speed limit or slightly above on your motorcycle. Some aggressive/stupid driver comes up behind you. You can either avoid that driver by letting them go past you and continue their stupidity ahead of you, or you can do the typical macho Moto thing and use your superior power:weight ratio to leave them in the dust.

If you use the power of the Moto you're now traveling at a much higher speed, grossly violating the speed limit, etc.. That is not making you safer cause you're now possibly overriding your skill level or road conditions. As a sport bike rider that kind of behavior would often lead to 2-3X the speed limit easily, giving you way less time to react. You get away from them and then end up slowing down and now they're going to catch up to you, and probably be enraged cause you "dissed them". If you instead let the idiot driver get by you then you end up keeping on at whatever your comfortable speed was, they're going to continue doing their thing ahead of you.

I'm not the kind of cyclist who hugs the gutter all the time, I'm really assertive. But if I'm coming up to a red light and stopping with traffic I'm not going to stop right behind the driver's license of the car in front of me waiting for another car to come through and rear end the car and sandwich me. I'd way rather be splitting the lanes in that kind of traffic.