Any experience with 24" wide stairs?

[veggieburger]

We are installing stairs to our basement. Lots of headroom, little width. We can do it cheaply and fit in a 24" wide stair, or move some walls around and put in a proper width staircase.

Anyone make due with narrow stairs, or do we go all-out and make them wider?

Basement (which has a second entrance) will be a kids playroom, chest freezer, storage, that sort of thing.

[bking]

Narrow stairs? Mmm. Make sure you can fit a stretcher caring an adult. I learned this last September. We ripped off a narrow closet door to make it work, it was all we could do to get her down the stairs. I'll have a proper stretcher next time that will fit the stairs.

[pitonpat]

I have two initial reactions:

You may have to contend with local building codes which typically require 36" minimum tread width (not to mention established maximum riser height & tread depths). In my area, even if you get away without meeting code while you use the basement you may still have to meet code when (if) you sell the home in the future.

The second thought is maneuverability of furniture- unless your other exit, presumably a bulkhead or Bilco type door, will be your means of bringing in furniture and emergency egress in the event that the interior stairs are blocked by fire.

[AngryScientist]

my basement has 24" stairs. never been a problem. a bit awkward when carrying something large down them like a laundry basket, but no big deal otherwise.

[veggieburger]

my basement has 24" stairs. never been a problem. a bit awkward when carrying something large down them like a laundry basket, but no big deal otherwise.

This is good. Like a said, we have another entrance (big enough to fit a chest freezer, etc), this is just for people and kids to go down and watch TV or grab a pound of ground beef.

[dddd]

Not a problem then, but it will be one-way traffic unless it's thin folks!

Be aware though that if one ever wants to get their non-permitted work approved/grandfathered or whatever, that a municipal inspector who is invited in may be able to mandate/order that portions of the work be corrected, or that portions of the walls, etc. be torn away for further inspection, and that this becomes an irreversible process at this point. Once you invite them in seeking "forgiveness"...

[cadence90]

We are installing stairs to our basement. Lots of headroom, little width. We can do it cheaply and fit in a 24" wide stair, or move some walls around and put in a proper width staircase.

Anyone make due with narrow stairs, or do we go all-out and make them wider?

Basement (which has a second entrance) will be a kids playroom, chest freezer, storage, that sort of thing.

I don't know where you live, but in the US if the stairs are new construction (not "grandfathered" existing 24" wide) then they must typically conform with UBC regulations, basement or not, second entry/exit or not, unless the local building codes supersede the UBC or a variance has been granted.

Stairs involve serious life-safety issues, especially if children or the elderly will be using them, and so the minimum requirements should be respected imo. Non-compliant construction can result in future fines, orders to remove and rebuild, or both.

The UBC regulations are:

Stair Width: 36" minimum.
Stair Landings: 36" x 36" clear.
Stair Riser Height: 7 3/4" to 8 1/4" maximum.
Stair Tread Length: 10" minimum.
Stair Headroom: 80" minimum.
Handrail Height: 34" to 38".
Baluster Vertical Spacing: 4" maximum.

[saf-t]

I don't know where you live, but in the US if the stairs are new construction (not "grandfathered" existing 24" wide) then they must typically conform with UBC regulations, basement or not, second entry/exit or not, unless the local building codes supersede the UBC or a variance has been granted.

These are life-safety issues, especially given that children will be using the stairs, and so the minimum requirements should be respected imo. Non-compliant construction can result in future fines, orders to remove and rebuild, or both.

The UBC regulations are:

Stair Width: 36" minimum.
Stair Landings: 36" x 36" clear.
Stair Riser Height: 7 3/4" to 8 1/4" maximum.
Stair Tread Length: 10" minimum.
Stair Headroom: 80" minimum.
Handrail Height: 34" to 38".
Baluster Vertical Spacing: 4" maximum.


This. I deal with this kind of thing in workplaces on a regular basis, but it applies to residences as well.

[speedevil]

For actual use, the most important measurement is rise + run. You can build them shallow or steep and going up and down will be much better if the rise + run is at 18" or close to it. 8" rise + 10" run is pretty much optimal.

The space you have to use will dictate some adjustment in the actual numbers, of course, but if you keep the rise + run in the correct range you should be fine. As to the width, wider is better, and don't forget that the handrail(s) will take up some of the otherwise usable width.

If you must have changes inspected, you likely live in a town or city. Out here in the hollers of Kentucky they don't care about things like that too much.

[veggieburger]

I don't know where you live, but in the US

I'm not in the US. All good so far as code.

[Polyglot]

my basement has 24" stairs. never been a problem. a bit awkward when carrying something large down them like a laundry basket, but no big deal otherwise.

No big deal until it is a big deal. My aunt was in her late 60's, was super fit, a highly-recognized field hockey coach, widowed and living alone when she went to do her laundry in the basement. She must have tripped as she went down the stairs. After not being heard from two days, my cousin went to check up on her, only to find her at the bottom of the stairs, where she had bled to death. I think every one of my relatives now has their laundry facilities on either the main level or sleeping level.

[Hilltopperny]

As long as you can fit through without an issue 24" stairs should be fine. The fact that you already have another entrance that is sufficient should make this a much easier decision. If it were the only way in or out I'd go with a wider tread.

[veggieburger]

No big deal until it is a big deal. My aunt was in her late 60's, was super fit, a highly-recognized field hockey coach, widowed and living alone when she went to do her laundry in the basement. She must have tripped as she went down the stairs. After not being heard from two days, my cousin went to check up on her, only to find her at the bottom of the stairs, where she had bled to death. I think every one of my relatives now has their laundry facilities on either the main level or sleeping level.

Terrible story...but that's not attributed to the narrow stairs somehow, is it?

And we have our laundry on the main level too.

[Ken Robb]

I have two initial reactions:

You may have to contend with local building codes which typically require 36" minimum tread width (not to mention established maximum riser height & tread depths). In my area, even if you get away without meeting code while you use the basement you may still have to meet code when (if) you sell the home in the future.

T.

This would be my concern. Since there is another access point to get big things in/out. But even if you get away now installing a narrow stairway without a permit if it's not be per your local building code you may very well have to make it conform before you can sell the house. Home inspectors and/or appraisers will almost surely red flag such an obvious violation. OTOH if 24" stairs are acceptable to your building department I'd build them 24" and save space and $$.

[Black Dog]

I'm not in the US. All good so far as code.

Are you sure? Unless your city has some wild variances.... You can go less than 860mm if you have an existing stair case to the basement that equals or exceeds 860mm, that is the only exception that I know of.

Ontario Building Code:

9.8.2.1. Stair Width

(1) Except as provided in Sentence (2), required exit stairs and public stairs serving buildings of residential occupancy shall have a width, measured between wall faces or guards, of not less than 900 mm.

(2) At least one stair between each floor level within a dwelling unit, and exterior stairs and required exitstairs serving a single dwelling unit, shall have a width of not less than 860 mm.

Note: On July 1, 2017, Sentence 9.8.2.1.(2) of Division B of the Regulation is amended by striking out "single dwelling unit" and substituting "houseor an individual dwelling unit". (See: O. Reg. 139/17, s. 75)

[veggieburger]

Are you sure? Unless your city has some wild variances....

Yes, I'm sure. There was a narrow staircase many moons ago, and there are still remnants of it. Then the floor was covered over...so technically it's an improvement upon an existing set of stairs, even though they have not been used or even touched in 40+ years.

[cadence90]

I'm not in the US. All good so far as code.Yes, I'm sure. There was a narrow staircase many moons ago, and there are still remnants of it. Then the floor was covered over...so technically it's an improvement upon an existing set of stairs, even though they have not been used or even touched in 40+ years.
Are you certain about that, that 24" wide would be legal/approved? I really wonder. I recall CA codes being quite similar to the UBC, and what Black Dog posted above from the OBC is logical and consistent.

If "all good so far as code.", do you have written pre-approval for a 24" stair from your Building Department? If yes, then the question here is moot. If no, then we are at the beginning again.

In any case 24" is not so good in terms of common sense, especially with children, elderly in the future, etc. I would completely understand if this was essentially a storage basement only, with rare use, but when you say it will be "a kids playroom" as well.... A truly habitable, daily-use space is a different thing entirely from a rare-use basement.

Have you actually mocked up a 24" wide stair, with handrails projecting inwards in addition? Not really so great.

Also, just because a narrower stair existed 40+ moons ago doesn't automatically mean that a new 24" stair would be approved per se. The Building Department would still have to sign off, if you wanted the new construction to be legal, and that signature (variance) is not guaranteed by any means.

If not legal, these are the kinds of "small", "penny-safe-pound-foolish" things that can become real nightmares in the future, when trying to sell, and inspectors notice that the existing conditions do not match the documents and plans that were part of the original sale to you. "New stair, eh? Do you have the permit for that?" Etc.

Heck, you might be better off moving the wall, building a completely legal wider stair, and gaining back some space and wall by getting rid of the basement exterior door if you don't then need it.
.

[Nooch]

No big deal until it is a big deal. My aunt was in her late 60's, was super fit, a highly-recognized field hockey coach, widowed and living alone when she went to do her laundry in the basement. She must have tripped as she went down the stairs. After not being heard from two days, my cousin went to check up on her, only to find her at the bottom of the stairs, where she had bled to death. I think every one of my relatives now has their laundry facilities on either the main level or sleeping level.

Sadly, either this happens all too often or your aunt used to be a client of mine, as I've also experienced this.

[rwsaunders]

As someone else stated, if you have another means of egress that’s 36” wide, I wouldn’t worry. However, don’t cheat the rise and the run of the new treads or someone will certainly trip. Then it won’t matter how wide they were. Also, at least one side (right) should have a handrail set at the proper height, allowing for grab space. The handrail will encroach on your 24” width dimension.

[veggieburger]

As long as you can fit through without an issue 24" stairs should be fine. The fact that you already have another entrance that is sufficient should make this a much easier decision. If it were the only way in or out I'd go with a wider tread.

I've lived in Holland. A 24" wide stairway is practically a superhighway over there. :)

[Polyglot]

I've lived in Holland. A 24" wide stairway is practically a superhighway over there. :)

This is simply not true, all houses that have not been grandfathered in with narrower stairs from long ago times need to have stairways that are at least 80 cm wide. What is different is the steepness of the stairs. The steps can be very narrow and tall, making for stairs that are often twice as steep as in North America.

[veggieburger]

This is simply not true, all houses that have not been grandfathered in with narrower stairs from long ago times need to have stairways that are at least 80 cm wide. What is different is the steepness of the stairs. The steps can be very narrow and tall, making for stairs that are often twice as steep as in North America.

I haven't lived in all houses in Holland. Only 2. Very old ones.