Doh! on Used Record Crankset

[grognaak]

Picked up a used Record crank and discovered the result of what was probably mistaken use of a Shimano bottom bracket. The spindle hole seems damaged, but I'm not sure how bad.

https://grognaak.tumblr.com/image/172187389794

***Update: Crisis Averted***
Thank you all for the great information. Had the opportunity to take these to a Campagnolo expert today. He slid them on a few Campy spindles and . . . they are "excellent." No problems at all, as a number of you have suggested. I felt confused because another mechanic who is a friend of mine seemed certain that someone had once used a JIS bottom bracket and deformed the spindle hole--seemed reasonable upon observation. Now it is not so clear that this really occurred. I got the impression from meeting with the aforementioned expert that what we were seeing was quite normal. We observed negligible if any play between the crank arms and spindle. False alarm I guess. :)

[Hindmost]

Have you tried fitting it on a campagnolo spindle? The tapers are the same, the depths are different between the two types.

[moobikes]

There's nothing wrong with it. Campagnolo square taper BB spindles typically extend pretty far into the crank, like this.

Shimano BBs are very slightly fatter at the tip, so if this crank ever wears to the point where a Campagnolo BB no longer works you can use a Shimano BB.

[grognaak]

Have you tried fitting it on a campagnolo spindle? The tapers are the same, the depths are different between the two types.

I'm not giving up hope on using a Campy or Phil Wood BB, but I haven't yet had the opportunity to try it.

[grognaak]

There's nothing wrong with it. Campagnolo square taper BB spindles typically extend pretty far into the crank, like this.

Shimano BBs are very slightly fatter at the tip, so if this crank ever wears to the point where a Campagnolo BB no longer works you can use a Shimano BB.

Interesting. Thanks.

[m_sasso]

Welcome to the Paceline Forum!

It appears as though a previous owner used a JIS spindle with your new cranks, they may not be lost, I would try the proper spindle and see how the arms seat on the correct spindle. If you understand the image I posted, you can see Campagnolo crank arms sit on the spindle tapers differently.

[grognaak]

Welcome to the Paceline Forum!

It appears as though a previous owner used a JIS spindle with your new cranks, they may not be lost I would try the proper spindle and see how the arms seat on the correct spindle.

Thanks! Yeah, that's what I thought. Crossing my fingers. Kinda bummed after getting what I thought was a pretty good deal. I'll check it out in more detail tomorrow.

[cadence90]

Also, from resident Campa-guru oldpotatoe:

"oldpotatoe;2272119 (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2272119&postcount=32)...As for the cranks, any 1995-2006 Record or Chorus, including carbon compacts, can use these [Phil Wood] ISO 105mm spindles. Campag calls for 102mm, so only 1.5mm per side bigger and would be great for used cranks that have come off and gone on a couple of times. I use a 105mm on my Moots, cuz it's got FAT chainstays...for info."
.

[grognaak]

Also, from resident Campa-guru oldpotatoe:

"oldpotatoe;2272119 (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2272119&postcount=32)...As for the cranks, any 1995-2006 Record or Chorus, including carbon compacts, can use these [Phil Wood] ISO 105mm spindles. Campag calls for 102mm, so only 1.5mm per side bigger and would be great for used cranks that have come off and gone on a couple of times. I use a 105mm on my Moots, cuz it's got FAT chainstays...for info."
.

Thanks! Noted!

[dancinkozmo]

There's nothing wrong with it. Campagnolo square taper BB spindles typically extend pretty far into the crank, like this.

Shimano BBs are very slightly fatter at the tip, so if this crank ever wears to the point where a Campagnolo BB no longer works you can use a Shimano BB.

really ? i thought the tapers were different (shimano =JIS campag=ISO )

[cadence90]

really ? i thought the tapers were different (shimano =JIS campag=ISO )

They are different, but one can interchange, within reason and of course as long as the proper spindle length is used.


Sheldon sayeth so.... (https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html)

"ISO/J.I.S. Interchangeability
If you install an ISO crank on a J.I.S. spindle, it will sit about 4.5 mm farther out than it would on an ISO spindle of the same length.

Conversely, if you install a J.I.S. crank on an ISO spindle, it will wind up about 4.5 mm farther in than it would on a J.I.S spindle of the same length.

Theoretically, ISO cranks should only be used on ISO spindles, and J.I.S. cranks only on J.I.S. spindles.

In practice, you can very often get away with mixing these sizes, as long as you select a spindle length that gives the desired chainline."
.

[moobikes]

The slope of the taper is the same.

JIS/ Shimano spindles are wider at the tip, is why they don't go as far into a campagnolo crank as a ISO spindle.

[Kontact]

The slope of the taper is the same.

JIS/ Shimano spindles are wider at the tip, is why they don't go as far into a campagnolo crank as a ISO spindle.

Everyone says they are the same, but when you put them together taper to taper they are not.

[likebikes]

there is absolutely nothing wrong with that crank.

[oldpotatoe]

Everyone says they are the same, but when you put them together taper to taper they are not.

They are both 2 degrees and as has been noted, the JIS is bigger in actual MMs. As I mentiomed in the PM, try any ISO spindle and see how far it goes into the crank flats..It 'may' be OK altho it looks like the JIS one went pretty far in...BTW-DRY spindle, no grease and to torque..23.6 to 28 ft-lbs.

[Kontact]

They are both 2 degrees and as has been noted, the JIS is bigger in actual MMs. As I mentiomed in the PM, try any ISO spindle and see how far it goes into the crank flats..It 'may' be OK altho it looks like the JIS one went pretty far in...BTW-DRY spindle, no grease and to torque..23.6 to 28 ft-lbs.

I believe we've discussed this before, but when you actually hold the tapers of ISO and JIS spindles together, the spindles don't remain parallel the way they do whey you mate the tapers of JIS to JIS or ISO to ISO. That was what I saw with Campy, Mavic and Shimano spindles.

[grognaak]

Thank you all for the great information. Had the opportunity to take these to a Campagnolo expert today. He slid them on a few Campy spindles and . . . they are "excellent." No problems at all, as a number of you have suggested. I felt confused because another mechanic who is a friend of mine seemed certain that someone had once used a JIS bottom bracket and deformed the spindle hole--seemed reasonable upon observation. Now it is not so clear that this really occurred. I got the impression from meeting with the aforementioned expert that what we were seeing was quite normal. We observed negligible if any play between the crank arms and spindle. False alarm I guess. :)