Moots Holding Their Value ?

[dbthompson]

I am trying to gauge the current value of a Moots Psychlo X. (Note I am not advertising it for sale here) . Its a 56cm w Ultegra 6800, Moots fork, Thompson seat post, fizik saddle, and canti breaks. The frame is a 2014, I believe. Seems the market for Moots bikes has softened some in the past few years probably due to increased competition. Interested in your thoughts and points of view. Thanks.

[tuscanyswe]

id be suprised if frame fork combo went for more than 1500 net in the US.
Bit more here in europe obviously but not a lot imo. Disc are also really lowering the value on cross frames with cantis, much much more so than on road frames with calipers for obvious reasons .)

This is my guesstimate. Take it as such and ad it to others and your own and voila you know when to strike! :)

They are very very nice bikes. Ive had one with the same fork as well.

[Matthew]

Should hold it's value fairly well depending on condition, etc. There are lots of folks here who love them, myself included. Problem is more the overall used bike market. Unless you are selling something rare or just ridiculously nice it is certainly a buyers market.

[AngryScientist]

note that i dont agree with the market personally, i'm a rim brakes lifer; but the widespread popularity of disc brakes has torpedoed the market for used canti brake bikes.

a good caliper road bike is still a good road bike, but the majority expectation is that if you're spending premium dollars for a cross/gravel bike these days it better have disc brakes and thru axles or the price better be low. that's the reality of it.

[chiasticon]

what Angry said. cantis just don't draw mucho dollars these days. if you bought the Moots brand new, you're gonna take a big hit on resale. if you bought it used recently, you can likely re-sell for what you paid.

fwiw, I paid about $1800 for a used PsychloX back in 2015. I don't think I could get more than $1500 now. there's just a lot less buyers for canti bikes; drives the price down. in fact I sold a PsychloX at that same time in 2015 (was moving down a size) for $1600.

[MattTuck]

Have you ever seen those Wiley Coyote cartoons where he runs off a cliff holding an anvil? Like that, except he's holding a frame made for canti brakes. :p:hello::p

[earlfoss]

are they ?

[dbthompson]

Thanks for the feedback. I did buy this used, frame and fork for $1500 a few years ago. I didn't think about canti being an issue but it makes sense given the popularity of disc brakes for cross. Guess I'll reset my expectations and price point.

[joosttx]

Thanks for the feedback. I did buy this used, frame and fork for $1500 a few years ago. I didn't think about canti being an issue but it makes sense given the popularity of disc brakes for cross. Guess I'll reset my expectations and price point.

I would argue that cantis lessen the value considerably vs disc brakes. Road calipers vs disc is another story.

A little off topic but even disc brakes have made an evolutionary step to flat mounts.

[FlashUNC]

The market for used custom work is generally going to be softer than than a middle aged guy out of Viagra.

Just lots of choices and great bikes and not that many buyers. The canti thing even moreso.

[happycampyer]

<snip>
A little off topic but even disc brakes have made an evolutionary step to flat mounts.It's funny, but pdmtong and I were just discussing this yesterday. I would not consider it OT at all.

The reality is, for better, worse or indifferent, the market for bikes is undergoing a number of pretty seismic shifts, at a time when the used market is (and has been for a while) relatively soft. On the whole, Moots' frames hold their value among their best in their category, but not every category has fared so well.

I have a mid-2000's 26" YBB. If I ever decide to sell it, I'm sure that it will sell for a premium to other 26" mtbs, but that just isn't saying much. At least it has hydro discs—according to the market, anything less isn't safe to be used for anything more than as a grocery-getter.

Cyclocross bikes are going through a similar transition. Of course people have always bought 'cross bikes to race 'cross, but a lot of the market for 'cross bikes was buoyed by non-racers (I owned a Psychlo-X years ago, and never raced). With the advent of the all-road/gravel bike—and especially the disc versions—the market for 'cross bikes with cantis has shrunk considerably. Witness the fact that Moots doesn't even sell a 'canti-equipped Psychlo-X/Routt. A lot of the support of the used market is the fact that it's a bargain relative to the new market for that same bike. If the bike is a discontinued model/version, that isn't going to help.

One could make the observation more broadly—bikes with 1-18" straight steerers are starting to take a hit vs. bikes with tapered steerers. Not as bad as bikes with 1" steerers, but give it time. And as noted above, the change to flat-mount disc has put pressure on the desirability of bikes with ISO and post-mount disc brakes, at least to some people.

[DRZRM]

It was always easy enough to send a canti brake MTB back to Moots for a refinish and you could add disc mounts and remove the cantilever posts for a few hundred dollars. I did it with a YBB 26" rim and extended its riding life and resale value. Are they still doing this, and can they do it for cross frames? Seems like a few hundred bucks and a new fork would be a good investment making a Moots disc ready, though you have limited options for a non-tapered fork, so that might be your next issue.

[mistermo]

It was always easy enough to send a canti brake MTB back to Moots for a refinish and you could add disc mounts and remove the cantilever posts for a few hundred dollars.

I called about this once. They told me they could add disc brake tabs, but would not remove canti posts.

[oldpotatoe]

I am trying to gauge the current value of a Moots Psychlo X. (Note I am not advertising it for sale here) . Its a 56cm w Ultegra 6800, Moots fork, Thompson seat post, fizik saddle, and canti breaks. The frame is a 2014, I believe. Seems the market for Moots bikes has softened some in the past few years probably due to increased competition. Interested in your thoughts and points of view. Thanks.

What's softened is the market for dirt bikes with canti brakes. I'd say that bike is in the $2000 range tho.

[ERK55]

About a year ago I sold a new Canti 55 Psychlo-x w/ uncut fork. I think it went for about $1100, about a third of what I paid for it.
It was a no no-reserve auction. Frankly if I knew it would go that low I probably would have just kept the thing.

[buddybikes]

Nothing is more limped than my 26" Fat Chance TI canti :rolleyes:

[happycampyer]

It was always easy enough to send a canti brake MTB back to Moots for a refinish and you could add disc mounts and remove the cantilever posts for a few hundred dollars. I did it with a YBB 26" rim and extended its riding life and resale value. Are they still doing this, and can they do it for cross frames? Seems like a few hundred bucks and a new fork would be a good investment making a Moots disc ready, though you have limited options for a non-tapered fork, so that might be your next issue.

Yes they can do this, but the spacing will be 130mm for quick release. If the headtube of the OP’s bike takes a tapered fork, that’s a plus.

Several years ago, I picked up from the classifieds here—and still have—an early original Psychlo-X YBB disc, with canti studs, 130mm spacing, quick release, mechanical disc only, and a headtube for a 1-1/8” steerer. I bought it on the cheap as an experiment, and will eventually sell it on the cheap-er. I talked with Jon at NAHBS about getting an updated version, but I noticed that the version Moots had on display (Routt) didn’t have flat mounts. In the meantime, the experiment continues (it has 650B x 42 wheels, etc.).

Adding disc tabs will extend the life of the frame, but I would leave that up to the buyer. Imo if the OP sends the frame to Moots for the modifications and then tries to sell it, he is unlikely to recoup the costs of the modifications.

[John H.]

A Moots will hold its value better than most other titanium bikes- Especially those made by small esoteric builders.

That said, what hurts the value on your bike the design.

High bb, cantilever brakes, and qr hubs- none are in demand in 2018.

Current desire is low bb, disc, and thru axle-

This doesn't mean the bike doesn't work great for you- Just means that it doesn't have great value in the used bike market.

[HenryA]

Just because its not the flavor of the month or the trend of the last few years doesn’t mean that much when you’ve ridden the bike a good while and gotten lots of fun time on it.

99.9% of the time a bicycle is not an investment, not even remotely close. Its a toy that will depreciate. And to repeat what I wrote above if you got good use of it, write it off and be happy.

The flip side of this is if you want a bike that’s not on trend, you can a get a crazy good deal on a great bike. It won’t be the current “cutting edge” or latest dream bike, but the fun you can have will be the same as it was maybe 20 years ago when that frame was the bee’s knees. I have some great memories of wonderful rides from back in the day riding bikes that just aren’t so desirable today, but were and are mighty fine machines.

[fignon's barber]

I would agree with the consensus here. A moots, non RSL, with either rim or canti brakes is only going to get $1500 max now. Maybe it's better to put it away for 15 years, until rim and canti's come back in style.:)

It's odd: the marques that retain the highest value seems to be Specialized, Assos, and Rapha.

[happycampyer]

I would say that Moots as a brand holds its value as well as it ever has, it's just that there's a lot more "evolution" in products these days. Other than a slight geo tweak in 2005 (and going from 1" steerers to 1-1/8" steerers earlier in the decade), a Vamoots or a Compact was pretty much the same bike for a decade or so. So it wasn't unusual for a used Vamoots or Compact to go for 2/3 of the new price (when other brands were lucky to recoup 50%). Then the RSL was introduced, and then tapered steerers, and then discs... Now, all of a sudden, a 2- to 3-year old bike is perceived as "obsolete." Of course, the bike is perfectly fine, but the fact that Moots doesn't even offer the bike in that configuration has caused the used market to take a hit.

[chiasticon]

Of course, the bike is perfectly fine, but the fact that Moots doesn't even offer the bike in that configuration has caused the used market to take a hit.fwiw, you can still get a PsychloX RSL with cantis from Moots for no extra charge. i.e. they do make it, it's just not the stock build. they brought the PsychloX back for a year or two, but with the advent of the gravel market and having the Routt, Routt 45, and Routt RSL, I'm guessing they just didn't sell that many (cross racers want a race bike: the RSL), as it's gone this year.

[happycampyer]

Moots would probably build a 26” Rigormootis/YBB with cantis if someone asked, too, although that would probably require a custom upcharge. ;)

[pdonk]

Nothing is more limped than my 26" Fat Chance TI canti :rolleyes:

If it is an XL, I'll take that obsolete bike off your hands. ;)

Pics please.

[newellbt]

I love the ride of every Moots I've owned thus far. I would pay a premium for their product and I would hope that others will too.

[dbthompson]

I originally listed the bike at $3500 and got one nibble. Just reduced it to $2500 on three sites.... we'll see what happens.