Which brands have fallen furthest from glory?

[veggieburger]

I went to the gym this morning and noticed yet another pair of Defeet socks starting to unstitch at the top of the cuff. Those things used to last 6-7 years, now I’m lucky if I get a season or two out of them. What are some other brands that used to be tops, but due to poor QC, overseas manufacturing, etc have become less than desirable?

[JAGI410]

Craftsman tools was the first to come to mind.

[fiamme red]

Brooks Brothers

[Clean39T]

Smartwool. REI. Vasque.

There are many.

[Michael Maddox]

Wanna stay on-topic for the forum?

Schwinn

I could just cry.

[veggieburger]

Craftsman tools was the first to come to mind.

Ha! Indeed.

I used to have a pair of Sugoi bibs - they lasted all the way through high school and then some. I thought they were the best thing ever, so when I started riding again after university, I bought another pair. Such a different, disappointing pair of shorts.

[Lewis Moon]

Masi. I lusted after Masis when I was a kid and now own a Russ Denny Masi 3V, but otherwise they are schite.

[JLQ]

Mongoose and Redline were what I coveted most in 1983. How that's changed.

[Lanternrouge]

This one hurts, but Eddy Merckx bikes. They were lustworthy when I started riding in the early 1990s and I would still love to have one from that era, but the latest iterations of the brand are just blah to me.

[zap]

Merckx certainly is at the top of the cycling list.

[spacemen3]

I miss GT's from the 90's, and Fondriest has lost its charm.

[jemoryl]

Merckx certainly is at the top of the cycling list.

I don't know about that. Are the new Merckx bikes as bad as big box Schwinns, Mongooses, and GTs?

[Mark McM]

Although the original companies are now gone, Bikes Direct has bought the rights to use many fabled brand names, which it now puts on their low priced mass produced bikes. These include:


Mercier

Motobecane

Windsor

[oldpotatoe]

Wanna stay on-topic for the forum?

Schwinn

I could just cry.

But for those who don’t know, ‘Schwinn’ does not equal the frames made by Richard Schwinn...just for info.:)

[Lanternrouge]

I don't know about that. Are the new Merckx bikes as bad as big box Schwinns, Mongooses, and GTs?

ATMO, they are definitely better than bikes you would get at a big box store. With the same caveat, they seem like perfectly good bikes, but just nothing special. Keep in mind, I come with the bias of when I started riding as a teen, 7-11 rode them.

[veggieburger]

I have to throw Mavic into the mix too. Their rims and wheels used to be shiznits, lasting forever. I admire them for trying new things, but I have had the worst luck with their pre-built wheels.

[BdaGhisallo]

I would certainly add Time to this list. They haven't been devalued to the same degree as some of the brands mentioned in an absolute sense but, relative to their former position in the market, they have fallen a good distance.

In the early 90s they were pretty dominant, along with Look, in the pedal market. They were the prime innovator in pedals and had a reputation for rock solid quality. They left the great Equipe pedal line behind and introduced the Action TWT, Impact, RXS, I-Clic, and Xpresso road pedals. Each new model was worse than the one it replaced to the point that they earned a rep with the I-Clic and Xpresso for pedals with bodies that break and snap off and cleats made out of butter, such was their rapid wear.

They have a new model out, the XPro, designed to fix the faults of the Xpresso line so let's see where they end up, but I am afraid their time has come and gone. Shimano is dominant with their spd-sl pedals and I don't see another company gaining market share any time soon.

[Hobine]

Sidi, at least for the Dominator mountain shoes. My first 2 pairs lasted at least 10 years. Last two pairs not even 1 season before getting a hole on the toe box. Maybe their road shoes are still fine.
I've switched to Lakes and Shimano.

[cachagua]

When a name meant the production of the person whose name it was, or at any rate, a specific shop, then a name meant something. In today's world of anonymous contract manufacturing and the buying and selling of brands, a name means nothing.

The first brand I thought of in this connection was Trek. I bought one in the late '70s handbuilt from Reynolds 531 that was the equal, for workmanship, of anything you could buy at the time. The tag that came with it had photos of the guys that built it. Now Trek is a department-store bike. Exactly the same for Specialized. --Assuming you can tell them apart!

Silca comes to mind. (Crowd-funding?!) Definitely Masi. Lotta formerly-great European marques. (One might think to say Serotta, but the problem there is a different one.) In general, whenever a trademark is sold, we can expect lowered quality. Nobody buys a trademark in order to do what we think of as a really nice bike -- they buy one for the purpose of fooling the buying public into thinking the cheaper stuff they're selling is as good as the stuff put that name on the top shelf to begin with.

Let's look at the other side of the question: is there a cheezy, cheap Kirk, or Della Santa, or Zanconato? Have those brands fallen from glory? They have not, and the reason is that the current production is still an expression of the original... you know, vital bodily essences, as Gen. Ripper says.

I guess theoretically it could be possible to buy an old trademark and begin producing super-high-quality stuff under it, only -- why? Paying to trade on someone else's reputation shows a commitment to profit, not to anything else.

[fignon's barber]

The fastest rise and fall would have to go to Jaegher. They were supposedly going to singlehandedly reboot the steel industry a couple years ago. When was the last time you heard their name?

[Tommy Mac]

Cinelli used to uttered in the same breath as Campagnolo. Now they remind me of, well, modern-day Merckx!

[El Chaba]

When a name meant the production of the person whose name it was, or at any rate, a specific shop, then a name meant something. In today's world of anonymous contract manufacturing and the buying and selling of brands, a name means nothing.

The first brand I thought of in this connection was Trek. I bought one in the late '70s handbuilt from Reynolds 531 that was the equal, for workmanship, of anything you could buy at the time. The tag that came with it had photos of the guys that built it. Now Trek is a department-store bike. Exactly the same for Specialized. --Assuming you can tell them apart!

Silca comes to mind. (Crowd-funding?!) Definitely Masi. Lotta formerly-great European marques. (One might think to say Serotta, but the problem there is a different one.) In general, whenever a trademark is sold, we can expect lowered quality. Nobody buys a trademark in order to do what we think of as a really nice bike -- they buy one for the purpose of fooling the buying public into thinking the cheaper stuff they're selling is as good as the stuff put that name on the top shelf to begin with.

Let's look at the other side of the question: is there a cheezy, cheap Kirk, or Della Santa, or Zanconato? Have those brands fallen from glory? They have not, and the reason is that the current production is still an expression of the original... you know, vital bodily essences, as Gen. Ripper says.

I guess theoretically it could be possible to buy an old trademark and begin producing super-high-quality stuff under it, only -- why? Paying to trade on someone else's reputation shows a commitment to profit, not to anything else.

(X) Like

Great insight, and I agree....

[johnniecakes]

Merckx certainly is at the top of the cycling list.

I can only speak to their latest steel offerings. I have a Roubaix 70 and since I bought it I have sold an IF Crown Jewel, 2 carbon bikes and a No.22 Ti frameset. The workmanship on the 70 is every bit as clean as any steel bike, custom or otherwise.

[El Chaba]

I'm well on record for stating my opinion that the high point of bicycle development (technology combined with craftsmanship) occurred in the general period of 1995-2005....This was the era of the original Mavic Cosmic Carbone, the Colnago C40 (and immediate predecessors), Campagnolo 9/10 speed, etc. etc. We've added stiffness, lowered weights, etc. but we have lost greatly in terms of quality and panache.

[batman1425]

I remember wanting a Schwinn Homegrown MTB in the worst way as a kid - one of the last of the made in the USA ones. Quite a difference to what the brand has become.

I have a GT cross bike from circa 2010-ish and love it. Not sure who made it, pretty sure it is kinesium tubing. The same alloy frame Wells won a national CX title on. Its taking a BEATING as a CX, commuter, gravel, do all bike over the years and is still holding up great. I'm planning a repaint and flat bar conversion this summer for jaunts around town.

[veggieburger]

When a name meant the production of the person whose name it was, or at any rate, a specific shop, then a name meant something. In today's world of anonymous contract manufacturing and the buying and selling of brands, a name means nothing.

I agree with you in a sense, except this doesn't always ring true. My next post was going to be the opposite - any big brands improved over the years? Such a thing exists. I was buying Garneau shorts when they were improperly stitched and leaving scars in soft tissue. Continental tires are still fantastic and haven't let their quality drop (imo). I used to have a Biemme winter jacket that had me sweating and overheating in about 20 mins. Their last windstopper-esque materials are great and endure the test of time.

[alancw3]

imho schwinn was still the best bike american bike company ever. the bikes they made. paramount, paragon, varsity, continental, stingray just to name a few. they were so far ahead of every other usa bike manufacturer at the time. actually the only one i can think of is columbia as murray and huffy were in their infancy. imho columbia sold out for money. probably because some wall street conglomorant bought it which is ashame. even though i think schwinn had a better product at one point in time columbia was a huge force n the usa bike market like the early 1900's.

[Bostic]

Mongoose and Redline were what I coveted most in 1983. How that's changed.

Those were the drool-worthy bikes when I was a teenager. I had a few knock off copies that I rode all around Golden Gate Park in San Francisco but never the real thing. My neighbors had them though as well as Cook Brothers and G-Boy so I did get to ride them from time to time.

[batman1425]

I agree with you in a sense, except this doesn't always ring true. My next post was going to be the opposite - any big brands improved over the years? Such a thing exists. I was buying Garneau shorts when they were improperly stitched and leaving scars in soft tissue. Continental tires are still fantastic and haven't been let their quality drop (imo). I used to have a Biemme winter jacket that had me sweating and overheating in about 20 mins. Their last windstopper-esque materials are great and endure the test of time.

I found the "house brand" tools from the big box stores to be pretty lack luster, particularly when Craftsmen was still Craftsmen. These days - I love the Kobalt stuff and wouldn't use a craftsmen product unless it was free.

I've had 2 Craftsmen torque wrenches strip the gear while in use. Once causing quite the busted knuckle. Not what the used to be...

[batman1425]

Those were the drool-worthy bikes when I was a teenager. I had a few knock off copies that I rode all around Golden Gate Park in San Francisco but never the real thing. My neighbors had them though as well as Cook Brothers and G-Boy so I did get to ride them from time to time.

The cross guys on my first cycling team used to lust over Alan, Redline, and Empela all with frog leg brakes.

Another brand that has had its up and downs - Litespeed. I remember the skinny climbing guys fighting to get their hands on a Ghishallo. Had a team mate with a Sienna that we all drooled over. Then all the ownership changes, the ridiculous CF stuff they made. Now starting to come back round.

[ripvanrando]

If disagreement is ok, Sidi has not declined in quality. I have tiny, narrow, poorly constructed Sidi shoes from the 80 and 90's that cannot hold a candle in comfort, quality of construction or performance to my Sidi 6.6 Mega or Dragon Mega shoes that are robust, light, and comfortable albeit not the cheapest.

[AngryScientist]

The first brand I thought of in this connection was Trek. I bought one in the late '70s handbuilt from Reynolds 531 that was the equal, for workmanship, of anything you could buy at the time. The tag that came with it had photos of the guys that built it. Now Trek is a department-store bike. Exactly the same for Specialized. --Assuming you can tell them apart!

.

this is great insight for sure, but i think it misses the point of the original question. trek and specialized are at the top of their game right now. they have the glory. they hold the torch. they have bicycles under the riders in the pro peloton. if you asked joe average bike rider what his dream race bike is - it's probably an S-Works or something like that.

having ridden some of the modern specialized road offerings recently, i have no problem attesting to the fact that they are good, solid race bikes. I'm also confident in saying that if i were racing at a high level (and could choose my own equipment...) - i would be on modern carbon, no question about that.

Schwinn is an excellent example of a brand that has fallen from glory.

[bfd]

W
The first brand I thought of in this connection was Trek. I bought one in the late '70s handbuilt from Reynolds 531 that was the equal, for workmanship, of anything you could buy at the time. The tag that came with it had photos of the guys that built it. Now Trek is a department-store bike. Exactly the same for Specialized. --Assuming you can tell them apart!



Really? Have you ridden a Trek recently? If your basis is a "late 70s" Trek frameset with Reynolds 531 tubing, well things have changed, if not improved!

Last year, I picked up a used 2013 Trek Madone 700 frameset for a decent price. I wanted to see what these modern carbon bikes were all about and threw on etap and some Campy wheels. I have to say I'm very impressed. Light (16lb), responsive and the ride is wonderful.

I agree that all these carbon bikes now look alike, but go test one before you start calling Trek a "department-store bike." I think you will be surprised.
Of course, YMMV! Good Luck!

[Matthew]

Three pages and no mention of Serotta!!

[batman1425]

Three pages and no mention of Serotta!!

I read the spirit of the thread as companies that are still around/branding still being used and producing things that are a shadow of the original products.

Serotta folded... but their quality never changed and the brand that came from the ashes (No.22) is top notch. Fair point though that the end of the road was rough for them.

[Michael Maddox]

When a name meant the production of the person whose name it was, or at any rate, a specific shop, then a name meant something. In today's world of anonymous contract manufacturing and the buying and selling of brands, a name means nothing.

The first brand I thought of in this connection was Trek. I bought one in the late '70s handbuilt from Reynolds 531 that was the equal, for workmanship, of anything you could buy at the time. The tag that came with it had photos of the guys that built it. Now Trek is a department-store bike. Exactly the same for Specialized. --Assuming you can tell them apart!

Silca comes to mind. (Crowd-funding?!) Definitely Masi. Lotta formerly-great European marques. (One might think to say Serotta, but the problem there is a different one.) In general, whenever a trademark is sold, we can expect lowered quality. Nobody buys a trademark in order to do what we think of as a really nice bike -- they buy one for the purpose of fooling the buying public into thinking the cheaper stuff they're selling is as good as the stuff put that name on the top shelf to begin with.

Let's look at the other side of the question: is there a cheezy, cheap Kirk, or Della Santa, or Zanconato? Have those brands fallen from glory? They have not, and the reason is that the current production is still an expression of the original... you know, vital bodily essences, as Gen. Ripper says.

I guess theoretically it could be possible to buy an old trademark and begin producing super-high-quality stuff under it, only -- why? Paying to trade on someone else's reputation shows a commitment to profit, not to anything else.

Trek? Seriously? How many pro teams have a Trek under them? And their top models, the Madone, Domane, and Emonda...are some of the best bikes, technically and functionally, in existence. And I was NEVER a Trek fan, to boot.

Bought my first Trek a year and a half ago, a Domane SLR, after 30 years of bikes and I'd choose it over most other bikes built today. It's startlingly good.

What exactly are you looking for? Nothing but handbuilt steel?

[zap]

I don't know about that. Are the new Merckx bikes as bad as big box Schwinns, Mongooses, and GTs?

Maybe all have fallen an equal amount. I consider Merckx having attained a higher cache value than Schwinn but not having fallen down to Schwinn level.

[GOTHBROOKS]

cinelli in my eyes hit rock bottom trying to cash in on the teenage fixed gear market a few years ago.

[nalax]

Has Klein fallen from glory? Or are they just a brand closed by Trek? I bought a Klein Rascal back around 1990 and loved that bike.

[JonB]

Lemond bikes, especially from the late 90's/early 2000's Trek-owned era. The were in the professional peloton, had innovative framesets - half ti/half carbon, OCLV, Reynolds 853, had good cyclocross bicycles. Now they're gone.

Derosa. Used to be lusted after as much as Colnago and moreso than Pinarello. Now they're just meh. The metal bikes are nice, I guess, but the carbon stuff seems like generic Chinese rebranded framesets.

Raleigh. From under Fignon to ???.

[Heisenberg]

When a name meant the production of the person whose name it was, or at any rate, a specific shop, then a name meant something. In today's world of anonymous contract manufacturing and the buying and selling of brands, a name means nothing.

The first brand I thought of in this connection was Trek. I bought one in the late '70s handbuilt from Reynolds 531 that was the equal, for workmanship, of anything you could buy at the time. The tag that came with it had photos of the guys that built it. Now Trek is a department-store bike. Exactly the same for Specialized. --Assuming you can tell them apart!


Given your first reference, this is tripe. Trek builds some of the, if not the most, technically advanced bikes in the industry at the halo level, and they do it themselves. Ground-up. There are few production brands out there that can make that claim. They can be counted on one hand.

Their marketing generally sucks and they don't pander well to this crowd, but from a product-facing side, they're the envy of most of the industry. Full-stop.

Degraded brands, or brands that are dipping?
-Rapha
-Cannondale
-Ridley
-Santini
-Campagnolo
-De Rosa
-Colnago
-Assos
-Niner

[gdw]

Mongoose, Diamondback, and GT were strong players in the early days of mountain biking. They all sponsored teams and had top end ti frames and XTR/XT components.

[batman1425]

Degraded brands, or brands that are dipping?
-Rapha
-Cannondale
-Ridley
-Santini
-Campagnolo
-De Rosa
-Colnago
-Assos
-Niner

Grabbing my popcorn to watch the recoil from this one...

[weaponsgrade]

Mongoose and Redline were what I coveted most in 1983. How that's changed.

I had a Mongoose BITD. Always wanted to get some Redline 401s.

[makoti]

No mention of Peugeot? My first real bike was a Peugeot. French. Cool. Great, simply jerseys. I had to google them to make sure they still were in business.

[Gummee]

this is great insight for sure, but i think it misses the point of the original question. trek and specialized are at the top of their game right now. they have the glory. they hold the torch. they have bicycles under the riders in the pro peloton. if you asked joe average bike rider what his dream race bike is - it's probably an S-Works or something like that.

having ridden some of the modern specialized road offerings recently, i have no problem attesting to the fact that they are good, solid race bikes. I'm also confident in saying that if i were racing at a high level (and could choose my own equipment...) - i would be on modern carbon, no question about that.

Schwinn is an excellent example of a brand that has fallen from glory.

I can tell you from personal experience that Trek has come leaps and bounds over the years. ...and that's accelerated over the last 3-4 years. Their new new stuff is fantastic.

M

[zap]

Has Klein fallen from glory? Or are they just a brand closed by Trek? I bought a Klein Rascal back around 1990 and loved that bike.

Klein went away long ago.

Trek did improve the Klein road geo but many consider Klein's best days were pre trek dayz.

[pdonk]

Mostly MTB stuff

Salsa. I know the current stuff is probably really good, but the old school mtb guy in me longs for a custom roller stem.

Syncros - used to make really neat stuff, now Scott's House Brand and not so interesting

I'd also suggest that Brodie is not the same since Paul left and cycletech took 100% ownership. The gatorblade and sloping top tube innovations still stand out as amazing things.

Finally, Rocky Mountain. The original blizzard and bikes made in Vancouver where great.

[zap]

I can tell you from personal experience that Trek has come leaps and bounds over the years. ...and that's accelerated over the last 3-4 years. Their new new stuff is fantastic.

M

I purchased a '18 Emonda SL6 late last year. I needed a beater/trainer bike to replace the Klein that got killed thanks to some road debris left over from election '16 .

The Trek is a better bike than I expected.

[nalax]

Suntour used to be somebody in the bike world

[ripvanrando]

The company putting BB90 out there.

[FlashUNC]

Man, anyone who thinks Silca has declined in quality and glory 1) hasn't used any of the US stuff and 2) didn't use any of the stuff they made before it folded up in Italy.

The Pista Ultimate pump will outlive the cockroaches.

[John H.]

You should reach out to Defeet. They actually care.
I mentioned my issues with a pair of Defeet gloves on another thread.
Someone from Defeet reached out to me- They asked some questions, and they ended up sending me a care package of some of their newer offerings.


I went to the gym this morning and noticed yet another pair of Defeet socks starting to unstitch at the top of the cuff. Those things used to last 6-7 years, now I’m lucky if I get a season or two out of them. What are some other brands that used to be tops, but due to poor QC, overseas manufacturing, etc have become less than desirable?

[Corso]

Sedisport chains. Abused the hell out of them years back. Had zero failures or complaints.
Since Sram ended up with owning them, I’ve broken enough to move on.

[happycampyer]

<snip>

Silca comes to mind.

<snip some more>

I guess theoretically it could be possible to buy an old trademark and begin producing super-high-quality stuff under it, only -- why? Paying to trade on someone else's reputation shows a commitment to profit, not to anything else.

If anything, Josh Poertner has done exactly that with Silca—bought the company and trademarks, and began producing (much, much) higher quality products than the original.

Man, anyone who thinks Silca has declined in quality and glory 1) hasn't used any of the US stuff and 2) didn't use any of the stuff they made before it folded up in Italy.

The Pista Ultimate pump will outlive the cockroaches.^ What he said. An old Silca pump is bombproof. A new Silca pump is nuclear bombproof.

[veggieburger]

You should reach out to Defeet. They actually care.
I mentioned my issues with a pair of Defeet gloves on another thread.
Someone from Defeet reached out to me- They asked some questions, and they ended up sending me a care package of some of their newer offerings.

I received a message from Defeet too. While I appreciate their concern, I'm not looking for freebies. Something has changed, and it needs to change back. Their new offerings are consistently sub-standard.

[fignon's barber]

I received a message from Defeet too. While I appreciate their concern, I'm not looking for freebies. Something has changed, and it needs to change back. Their new offerings are consistently sub-standard.


I got the message too. I ignored it because I thought, " Wait a minute. You are the product manager. You should know why your product that used to be indestructible now falls apart in 2 washings!"

[mt2u77]

No one has mentioned Kestrel-- they used to be the cat's ass of USA made carbon. Not sure they are more than a bikesdirect brand now.

[cachagua]

If your basis is a "late 70s" Trek frameset with Reynolds 531 tubing, well things have changed, if not improved! ...I agree that all these carbon bikes now look alike, but go test one before you start calling Trek a "department-store bike"...

Trek? Seriously? How many pro teams have a Trek under them? And their top models... are some of the best bikes, technically and functionally, in existence.... What exactly are you looking for? Nothing but handbuilt steel?



Sorry I've been away from this all day.

I think we've read the original question differently. What I think of as the glory of a brand is partly my own experience of using their products, partly the unique character of their position in the market, and partly the attitudes displayed not just in the performance of their products, but in their operation and business model.

I had a Trek I really liked, a long time ago, and I feel somewhat repulsed by their bikes now, but I don't want to single Trek out as the horrible example of everything that's wrong in the world. They'll serve to illustrate what I'm thinking about, but -- they shouldn't take it personally, know what I mean? They're by no means the only outfit to have made the kind of transformation that dismays me, on the one hand, and on the other, it's only me that's dismayed -- no one could argue with the success of Trek's business decisions, nor in any objective way with the technical and functional attributes of their top-level bikes.

But the glory of their brand, as I think of it, is long behind them. I ride all the bikes I can get my hands on, but the ones I continue to like the feel and the look of best are hand-built from metal. They offer the most enjoyable experience for me. As for Trek's position in the market, there's little about it that's distinctive or unique; they do, for the most part, what a dozen or more big manufacturers do, and to me, that makes them unexciting. And the attitude that lies behind their operation and, by extension, their products seems to be that nothing is as important as the bottom line. I like to see consumer goods produced in a way that respects craft, expressiveness, and judgment.

In my eyes, all of that adds up to a fall from glory. When I bought my old Trek, I dug what they were about -- now, they leave me cold. That's all I was trying to say. Again, Trek's not my whipping boy, they just happen to illustrate what I think is a widespread and lamentable trend.

And that's not too far outside the original question, is it?

[Mattbotak]

Klein. Trek ruined the brand and design.

[Davist]

No mention of Peugeot? My first real bike was a Peugeot. French. Cool. Great, simply jerseys. I had to google them to make sure they still were in business.

I thought Peugeot just pulled out of the US, but yeah.. Sold them in the bike shop I worked at, first "real" bike (though an MTB) for me, too.. Still make a helluva pepper mill!

[daker13]

Degraded brands, or brands that are dipping?
-Rapha
...

Not the biggest Rapha fan, but it seems like a generous return/repair policy is a pretty good guarantee of quality. Why build crappy stuff, if the buyer's just going to be sending it in for repair in a year?

[bikinchris]

Cinelli used to uttered in the same breath as Campagnolo. Now they remind me of, well, modern-day Merckx!

I don't know about that. It might be modern advertising his to blame. That Laser I sold a while back was a VERY nice bike.

[bikinchris]

Three pages and no mention of Serotta!!

Serotta never made crappy bikes.

[BdaGhisallo]

Not the biggest Rapha fan, but it seems like a generous return/repair policy is a pretty good guarantee of quality. Why build crappy stuff, if the buyer's just going to be sending it in for repair in a year?

Would you say that guarantee applied to SRAM? For a long while they were known for a very accommodating return policy - any many seemed to, out of need, take full advantage of it.

[bikinchris]

I agree with naming Schwinn as having fallen the farthest. If the name was Schwinn, at one time it meant that it was the very best you could get at any price. Now it means the opposite.

[El Chaba]

WRT Peugeot....Peugeot quit making bikes in the late 80's time period. For a few more years they still sold bikes under their name, but they were CycleEurope products. The bike division was spun off of the main corporation. Who knows who has the marketing rights for the name for bike purposes....They were a powerhouse for many years...
WRT DeRosa.....I have been a huge DeRosa fan for years, but I have to agree that they have somewhat lost their way. IMHO, much of the soul of the company was lost when Doriano set out on his own by forming Bixxis. DeRosa still has some great bikes in the lineup, but they are definitely diminished by the badge-engineered stuff not actually made by them.

[oldpotatoe]

Softride
Spinergy

[Mikej]

If disagreement is ok, Sidi has not declined in quality. I have tiny, narrow, poorly constructed Sidi shoes from the 80 and 90's that cannot hold a candle in comfort, quality of construction or performance to my Sidi 6.6 Mega or Dragon Mega shoes that are robust, light, and comfortable albeit not the cheapest.

Agree- my wires and drakos bore me they are so good...

[fignon's barber]

Masi.

[veggieburger]

Softride
Spinergy

Softride, good call. :no:

[MattTuck]

Softride
Spinergy

Not sure that softride was anything more than a gimmick...

[oldpotatoe]

Not sure that softride was anything more than a gimmick...

In ProPeloton in the mid 90s, we sold a bunch of them to tri-geeks. Yup, kinda gimmicky but a lot of Iron-man bound people used them.

[earlfoss]

Maybe a reach, but I'd throw Michelin out there. In the mid 90's through mid 2000's I'd see lots of racers on the Supercomp HD (my favorite tire ever), and those super cool multi-compound ones when that was a new thing. These days their market share seems much smaller.

[veggieburger]

Maybe a reach, but I'd throw Michelin out there. In the mid 90's through mid 2000's I'd see lots of racers on the Supercomp HD (my favorite tire ever), and those super cool multi-compound ones when that was a new thing. These days their market share seems much smaller.

I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned tire manufacturers. I used to be a Michelin guy too, but found myself disappointed by the Pro series, at least the first few iterations.

[Hellgate]

Craftsman tools was the first to come to mind.Fun factoid... Craftsman hand tools were made by Emerson Electric at one point in time. Then Sears changed suppliers and it was all downhill...

Emerson still manufacturers hand tools under the Ridgid brand.

Current Ridgid pliers look surprisingly like Craftsman Pro from 25 years ago.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[happycampyer]

Serotta never made crappy bikes.As an owner of multiple Serottas I agree, but I would also agree that, as a brand, Serotta’s fall from glory is pretty spectacular. There was a time—for decades—when people lusted wildly for a Serotta. The bikes actually got better and better, but for reasons that have been beaten to death here (and for a bunch of reason that had nothing to do with the company’s demise but nevertheless have also been beaten to death here), the company squandered its brand value. The fact that Ben’s various attempts to reboot are met with tepid interest at best is a sad affirmation of this phenomenon.

Having spent some time speaking to both Ben and Doriano DeRosa at NAHBS, I wish them both the best, but it was kind of sad to see two giants of the industry mostly passed by.

[batman1425]

Fun factoid... Craftsman hand tools were made by Emerson Electric at one point in time. Then Sears changed suppliers and it was all downhill...

Emerson still manufacturers hand tools under the Ridgid brand.

Current Ridgid pliers look surprisingly like Craftsman Pro from 25 years ago.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Didn't know that... Perhaps not coincidentally, I've been buying a lot of Ridigid tools as of late. All of it gets great reviews and is very good value for the money. Most recently I picked up a circular saw and an oscillating tool. Both are great.

[Jaybee]

Slightly OT, but I remember when the PAC-12 was good at basketball.

[MikeD]

All domestic bike builders that moved their production to China.

[semdoug]

Perhaps more of disappointment than fall from glory, but was sad to see Land Shark, John Slawta, give up steel. No carbon v. steel argument intended.

[Red Tornado]

From the MTB world...
Iron Horse (now at Nashbar or Performance), Univega, Parkpre, Tioga, Vetta (maybe not around anymore, so possibly doesn't apply here but what the heck).
Panaracer maybe? After the Smoke/Dart combo, their other stuff just didn't work as well for me.

[BdaGhisallo]

From the MTB world...
Iron Horse (now at Nashbar or Performance), Univega, Parkpre, Tioga, Vetta (maybe not around anymore, so possibly doesn't apply here but what the heck).
Panaracer maybe? After the Smoke/Dart combo, their other stuff just didn't work as well for me.

Panaracer is a Japanese brand, right? I wonder how many of the brands that we are touting as gone or weak compared to their former status in NA are still doing well in their traditional or native markets? Names like Peugeot, Michelin and Tioga spring to mind.

[Bostic]

After the Smoke/Dart combo, their other stuff just didn't work as well for me.

At the time that was my favorite combo. In 1994 (I think) I ordered a house brand KHS clone steel mountain bike with XTR from SuperGo bike shops. With the Smoke/Dart combo I was riding every weekend in the Marin Headlands and Mt. Tam and it was such an improvement over my previous mountain bike.

[Lewis Moon]

Masi.

These are nice, although arguably "reproductions". I own one amd love it. 2006 (http://masiguy.blogspot.com/2006/05/place-your-order-now-masi-3v-steel.html)

[dddd]

I have to remind myself that the OP's topic was "glory", so perhaps I'm more wrong than right, but I see Masi as making progress in the market, slowly expanding with new offerings that seem more focused and refined.
Schwinn went belly up but re-emerged as a bbb (big box bike) brand, and have established a reputation over the last 20 years as being the best of the bunch.
It's a huge market, the bikes sold at Target and WalMart are sized by their wheel size for the most part, which seems silly to us enthusiasts, but thay are not selling to those yet sophisticated as bike aficionados (aka "bike snobs", a term I think is much over-used).

Klein was a pretty incredible maker of super-quality bikes at one point, and I went out of my way in recent years to acquire mine, with it's flat-top fork crown and unbelievable paint quality (appearance and durability) seeming to make it stand out in any crowd. It always surprises me anew with it's most responsive feel even with it's lengthy chainstays.

The last couple of new bikes I've bought were Mongoose and Huffy respectively, plus a recent used Schwinn from the modern era. I've done a lot of off-road riding on these and really like these bigger-wheeled hardtails over quite a wide range of challenging rides. They aren't glory bikes, and they're best for those who perhaps can't cough up a big wad of cash or who have a less-secure storage arrangement available.
The challenge with these is to use a budgeted allowance system over time while making as few upgrades as tolerable unless better parts are already at hand sitting idle.
Photos or it didn't happen, right?
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5622/30977693802_dd5a7b8c0b_z.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7734/27275215924_93a95c9e1a_z.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7427/26617292864_9bc7b393b4_z.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4354/36683330132_dc12046b4f_z.jpg

[Michael Maddox]

The last couple of new bikes I've bought were Mongoose and Huffy respectively, plus a recent used Schwinn from the modern era. I've done a lot of off-road riding on these and really like these bigger-wheeled hardtails over quite a wide range of challenging rides. They aren't glory bikes, and they're best for those who perhaps can't cough up a big wad of cash or who have a less-secure storage arrangement available.
The challenge with these is to use a budgeted allowance system over time while making as few upgrades as tolerable unless better parts are already at hand sitting idle.
Photos or it didn't happen, right?

I think your membership here can be revoked for this. Mods? :p

At the very LEAST, you're due a shunning...

[bfd]

Panaracer is a Japanese brand, right? I wonder how many of the brands that we are touting as gone or weak compared to their former status in NA are still doing well in their traditional or native markets? Names like Peugeot, Michelin and Tioga spring to mind.

Avocet. Back in the late 80s, even early 90s, they dominated the market for cyclometers, including the Avocet 50 with one of the first altimeter built in; Avocet 02 saddles, nothing else was as comfortable and used ones still sell for good money on ebay; and Avocet tires, designed by Jobst Brandt, when they were made in Japan, great tires. They then moved production to Korea and the tires weren't as good. That ended when the factory burned down....

Best picture of Jobst testing Avocet slicks:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/images/tiretest.jpg

Interestingly, Avocet's website is still up. But they haven't done anything in easily over a decade or more. Kind of reminds me of Bikepro.com! Good Luck!

[veggieburger]

The last couple of new bikes I've bought were Mongoose and Huffy respectively, plus a recent used Schwinn from the modern era.

Is that an empty bottle of honey on the back of your Huffy? Carbo loading for your next trail adventure?

[bikingshearer]

A contender for the WayBack Machine category: Simplex. There was a time when Simplex gear systems were Da Bomb. (Okay, that time was in the '40s and '50s, but still . . .) Then came Delron plastic derailleurs, the general decimation of the French cycling industry and a slide into oblivion.

Also from the WayBack Machine: Clement tires. Once upon a time, Criterium Setas or, if you were a daring weight-weenie, Criterium Seta Extras were Simply The Best. (Ooooo, silk casings . . .) Then, according to the current Clement website, Clement was bought out by Pirelli and the plant was moved to Thailand. Not a good move. Pirelli got out of the bike tire biz not long thereafter and the brand name languished for a while. The name is now owned by Donnelly Cycling LLC (about whom I know nothing) and Clement-branded tires are out there again. I have no clue how good or bad the new Clements are (they clearly are trying to have a serious racing presence), but the current Clement has as much to do with its glory years forebearer as the current Schwinn, Mercier and Masi have to do with theirs: Nothing.

[zennmotion]

The last couple of new bikes I've bought were Mongoose and Huffy respectively, plus a recent used Schwinn from the modern era. I've done a lot of off-road riding on these and really like these bigger-wheeled hardtails over quite a wide range of challenging rides. They aren't glory bikes, and they're best for those who perhaps can't cough up a big wad of cash or who have a less-secure storage arrangement available.
The challenge with these is to use a budgeted allowance system over time while making as few upgrades as tolerable unless better parts are already at hand sitting idle.


TRUTH^^^ :hello:

I think your membership here can be revoked for this. Mods? :p

At the very LEAST, you're due a shunning...

Nope, any bike that's been ridden hard and put away wet beats any over-pampered garage queen.

[DarkStar]

Suntour used to be somebody in the bike world
I still use XCPro and Comp parts to this day.

[zennmotion]

Avocet. Back in the late 80s, even early 90s, they dominated the market for cyclometers, including the Avocet 50 with one of the first altimeter built in; Avocet 02 saddles, nothing else was as comfortable and used ones still sell for good money on ebay; and Avocet tires, designed by Jobst Brandt, when they were made in Japan, great tires. They then moved production to Korea and the tires weren't as good. That ended when the factory burned down....

Best picture of Jobst testing Avocet slicks:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/images/tiretest.jpg

Interestingly, Avocet's website is still up. But they haven't done anything in easily over a decade or more. Kind of reminds me of Bikepro.com! Good Luck!

The tires were among the first real high quality clinchers. I still use an Avocet Touring saddle on my MTB, and their cranks (made by Ofmega) were elegant and lighter than Campy. Pretty seatposts too.

[fignon's barber]

These are nice, although arguably "reproductions". I own one amd love it. 2006 (http://masiguy.blogspot.com/2006/05/place-your-order-now-masi-3v-steel.html)


Yes Lewis, those are nice. I'm thinkin of today's Masi:

http://www.jensonusa.com/Masi-Vivo-Uno-Bike-2017?pt_source=googleads&pt_medium=cpc&pt_campaign=shopping_us&pt_keyword=&msclkid=5fe2ca77ae361b40d89290db839af7c3

[cachagua]

Slightly OT, but I remember when the PAC-10 was good at basketball.

Fixed it for you.

But you're right!

[Rudy]

But for those who don’t know, ‘Schwinn’ does not equal the frames made by Richard Schwinn...just for info.:)

Without doubt. At one time I had eleven Waterfords. Continue to believe they offer superior performance and attractive value.

[54ny77]

Sears!

[rrudoff]

Bontrager-another victim of the Trek grist mill. I lusted after a Race Lite so bad in the late 80s. Stuff maybe good now, but seems devalued and generic to me.

[MagicHour]

Awesome post down memory road. I bought one of the O2s when they first came out for my Trek 660 true temper. First “good”saddle I owned, I really liked it at the time wonder how I’d get on with it now? Sadly it’s long gone having commuted to work in the rain on it one too many times, likely in jeans :eek:and the cover began peeling. Moved to a flite and concor lites after that.

I also happen have that exact Avocet jersey too, and the same in maroon that I’ll occasionally pull out in the autumn which it’s perfect for.

Avocet. Back in the late 80s, even early 90s, they dominated the market for cyclometers, including the Avocet 50 with one of the first altimeter built in; Avocet 02 saddles, nothing else was as comfortable and used ones still sell for good money on ebay; and Avocet tires, designed by Jobst Brandt, when they were made in Japan, great tires. They then moved production to Korea and the tires weren't as good. That ended when the factory burned down....

Best picture of Jobst testing Avocet slicks:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/images/tiretest.jpg

Interestingly, Avocet's website is still up. But they haven't done anything in easily over a decade or more. Kind of reminds me of Bikepro.com! Good Luck!

[mistermo]

in CBB, UVa. Impossible to fall any farther from glory than that.

[Davist]

Bontrager-another victim of the Trek grist mill. I lusted after a Race Lite so bad in the late 80s. Stuff maybe good now, but seems devalued and generic to me.

I recall (perhaps misremembering) that Keith wanted to get into the "parts" business, no longer the bikes, so that's why the wheels/saddles/etc.. I, too, wanted a race light. Also, his BMX bikes were too cool, but only the boys from Santa Cruz are could seem to get them..

[merckx]

I thought Peugeot just pulled out of the US, but yeah.. Sold them in the bike shop I worked at, first "real" bike (though an MTB) for me, too.. Still make a helluva pepper mill!

I would rather throw a leg over a crooked, hammer-cobbled PY10 from the 70's than one of the current Easy-Bake versions.

[foggypeake]

Bontrager-another victim of the Trek grist mill. I lusted after a Race Lite so bad in the late 80s. Stuff maybe good now, but seems devalued and generic to me.

Speaking of Bontrager reminded me of Gary Fisher. I remember looking at the mail order catalogs from Mountain Bike Specialists (I think former owned by Ned Overend) and drooling over the ProCaliber and the SuperCaliber. Trek consumed them as well.

I'm sure that we could add several Italian brands that attempted to jump on the carbon bandwagon and got lost. Viner comes to mind (now owned by PlanetX), maybe Bottechia, Ciocc, or Guerciotti. DeRosa seems to be coming back to a degree.

[alancw3]

in my mind ZEFAL. what use to be a creme de la creme company is now just another marketing company. had an experience and gave them every opportunity to correct the problem and they failed. just my two cents wait i actually never heard back from them after several corresponds..

[Ti Designs]

Any company that was purchased for it's name recognition is gonna see some serious changes. The bike industry is full of examples:

Schwinn - the most recognized names in bike sales in the 50's, 60's and 70's. The company that produced the most childhood memories has been reduced to a department store brand.

Fat City Cycles & Serotta - both purchased (by the same person), moved, and failed. Ben bought his name back (for $1) and restarted the company that made most of the frames y'all own. Chris Chance vanished from the cycling industry, only to resurface not too long ago offering newer versions of the Yo Eddy! (built by Co-Motion)

Merlin - the magic company. If we ignore bikes like the Teledyne Titan (and we should), Merlin was the first to produce a high quality titanium bike (under the name Marin for the first dozen), and they sold every bike they could make for a number of years. They sold their entire production of Extralights before a single one was finished. Merlin's downfall wasn't so much their name as the idea that businessmen from outside the bike industry could run a bike company far better than idiot cyclists - and they could afford the buy-in cost.

Moots. Well, moots is a very different case. It was a case of a bike company being purchased, but not for name recognition. When it was sold Moots was a much smaller company making it's own style of bikes. When it was purchased, the new owner updated production (that's such an understatement...) and unlike most other purchases, brought in people from the bike industry. It's like watching a company fail in reverse.

[PacNW2Ford]

Sorry I've been away from this all day.

I think we've read the original question differently. What I think of as the glory of a brand is partly my own experience of using their products, partly the unique character of their position in the market, and partly the attitudes displayed not just in the performance of their products, but in their operation and business model.

I had a Trek I really liked, a long time ago, and I feel somewhat repulsed by their bikes now, but I don't want to single Trek out as the horrible example of everything that's wrong in the world. They'll serve to illustrate what I'm thinking about, but -- they shouldn't take it personally, know what I mean? They're by no means the only outfit to have made the kind of transformation that dismays me, on the one hand, and on the other, it's only me that's dismayed -- no one could argue with the success of Trek's business decisions, nor in any objective way with the technical and functional attributes of their top-level bikes.

But the glory of their brand, as I think of it, is long behind them. I ride all the bikes I can get my hands on, but the ones I continue to like the feel and the look of best are hand-built from metal. They offer the most enjoyable experience for me. As for Trek's position in the market, there's little about it that's distinctive or unique; they do, for the most part, what a dozen or more big manufacturers do, and to me, that makes them unexciting. And the attitude that lies behind their operation and, by extension, their products seems to be that nothing is as important as the bottom line. I like to see consumer goods produced in a way that respects craft, expressiveness, and judgment.

In my eyes, all of that adds up to a fall from glory. When I bought my old Trek, I dug what they were about -- now, they leave me cold. That's all I was trying to say. Again, Trek's not my whipping boy, they just happen to illustrate what I think is a widespread and lamentable trend.

And that's not too far outside the original question, is it?

My first good road bike was a made in USA hand brazed Trek, now the only mass-produced bike I have is a imported Trek Emonda SL that shares space with a bunch of customs. It's a quality piece and fits in with the crowd. They're a big bike company making bikes at the mass market scale, plus they make high-end made in Wisconsin stuff. Not unlike the old days of Schwinn and the Waterford Paramounts. I'm sure the income from the imported bikes is what makes the handcrafted small batch stuff possible. Sure we wish that Porsche didn't have to make SUVs to fund the sports cars, but they have to in order to survive.

[fiamme red]

I haven't read through this whole thread, but has anyone mentioned Bicycling Magazine? It used to be great back in the 1970's and 1980's, now it's usually spoken of with derision.

[bfd]

My first good road bike was a made in USA hand brazed Trek, now the only mass-produced bike I have is a imported Trek Emonda SL that shares space with a bunch of customs. It's a quality piece and fits in with the crowd. They're a big bike company making bikes at the mass market scale, plus they make high-end made in Wisconsin stuff. Not unlike the old days of Schwinn and the Waterford Paramounts. I'm sure the income from the imported bikes is what makes the handcrafted small batch stuff possible. Sure we wish that Porsche didn't have to make SUVs to fund the sports cars, but they have to in order to survive.

What I find amusing is this guy's idea of "glory days" was a 70s Trek with Reynolds 531 tubing. Don't get me wrong, that wasn't a bad frame. But it was really just a production frame that was fairly well built. But, there were many framebuilders during that period that made far superior frames to the Trek.

Further, it appears he's judging today's Trek carbon bikes by looks alone. He's never ridden one and instead makes generalizations because they look generic.

That's fine. I love my 2013 Madone with etap. Further, it is Made in the USA.! Good Luck!

[froze]

Let us not forget SunTour, Zeos, Huret, and Cook Brothers

Lotus, Univega, Airborne (which I think are now Van Nicholas but they no longer make the bikes like Airborne did, they now spec them out of China), Twenty Four, Haro, Klien, Peugeot, Softride bikes.

There are tons more but I think that covers some of the once major players.

[steelbikerider]

Tires seem to be hit or miss. I used Michelin for years because I liked the ride and still have some pro4 endurance tires stashed away. I've been using Conti 4000s for the last 2 years. I prefer the comfort of the pro4's but like the mileage and rolling resistance of the Contis. I have a set of Power race tires waiting for warmer weather so I will see.

I still have Defeet base layers and socks in regular rotation that are over 10 years old.

[jamesdak]

What I find amusing is this guy's idea of "glory days" was a 70s Trek with Reynolds 531 tubing. Don't get me wrong, that wasn't a bad frame. But it was really just a production frame that was fairly well built. But, there were many framebuilders during that period that made far superior frames to the Trek.

Further, it appears he's judging today's Trek carbon bikes by looks alone. He's never ridden one and instead makes generalizations because they look generic.

That's fine. I love my 2013 Madone with etap. Further, it is Made in the USA.! Good Luck!

LOL, I sold my 2011 Madone 5.9 because it did nothing that couldn't be equaled by many of my old steel rides. Well, the Trek could beat me up more on the rough chipseal I ride. Gotta give it credit for that. ;)

[fogrider]

LOL, I sold my 2011 Madone 5.9 because it did nothing that couldn't be equaled by many of my old steel rides. Well, the Trek could beat me up more on the rough chipseal I ride. Gotta give it credit for that. ;)

I don't think this about whether we like their products or not, it's about whether they have fallen from glory...I think Trek as built a good brand, one of the best bike brands in the US and the world. Whether you like their products or not, they have a strong network of dealers, customer service, good products, and they employ lots of Americans and people around the world. And I'm sure they would make a steel bike if people would buy them. BTW, one of main bikes is steel...another is Ti, another is steel, another is carbon, another is Al, etc.

I would nominate Felt.

[jamesdak]

I don't think this about whether we like their products or not, it's about whether they have fallen from glory...I think Trek as built a good brand, one of the best bike brands in the US and the world. Whether you like their products or not, they have a strong network of dealers, customer service, good products, and they employ lots of Americans and people around the world. And I'm sure they would make a steel bike if people would buy them. BTW, one of main bikes is steel...another is Ti, another is steel, another is carbon, another is Al, etc.

I would nominate Felt.

Just reinforcing PacNW2Ford comments that they have fallen with my personal observance...;)

The local Trek shop is actually my go to shop and full of great guys. I have nothing against the brand myself. But I can see where other's aren't impressed and may think they've slipped.

In fact, to be honest, I do feel that many of the current builders have slipped in some ways. I mean, look at bikes like the Domane where they are actually having to engineer compliance back in that's been lost in the C.F stiffness craze. Seems like all the big builders are now offering these "comfort" rides that still fall short of what bikes of yesteryear's offered.

[Chris]

Did I just read through 8 pages and miss mention of Raleigh somehow? Surely someone brought them up and I missed it. The Raleigh Professional to now and all that was in between?

[PacNW2Ford]

Just reinforcing PacNW2Ford comments that they have fallen with my personal observance...;)

The local Trek shop is actually my go to shop and full of great guys. I have nothing against the brand myself. But I can see where other's aren't impressed and may think they've slipped.

In fact, to be honest, I do feel that many of the current builders have slipped in some ways. I mean, look at bikes like the Domane where they are actually having to engineer compliance back in that's been lost in the C.F stiffness craze. Seems like all the big builders are now offering these "comfort" rides that still fall short of what bikes of yesteryear's offered.

Hey, I was defending Trek. Just because they grew beyond being an obscure brand that once built hand brazed steel frames into a mass market brand that doesn't appeal to bike snobs, doesn't mean they've fallen. I mean, not many people even heard of them in the "glory" days. That said, my Trek shop is a nationally known dealer and they've generally been goobers. I should be bitter about what happened to Klein as I have a pre-Trek 1993 and once owned a Pinnacle, but hey it happens.

[likebikes]

serotta /thread

[91Bear]

From the MTB world...
Iron Horse (now at Nashbar or Performance), Univega, Parkpre, Tioga, Vetta (maybe not around anymore, so possibly doesn't apply here but what the heck).
Panaracer maybe? After the Smoke/Dart combo, their other stuff just didn't work as well for me.

Don't forget Avocet. Where did they go? (Whoops. Skipped page 7)

Okay, so what about Ibis?

[DreamInColor]

Unless I missed it, I didn't see Bridgestone mentioned in this thread. I have an MB-series mtb from the early 90s and have ridden an RB-1 from the same era—both very nice bikes. Perhaps not so much a 'fall from glory' as a really decent brand gone altogether?

[bikinchris]

Unless I missed it, I didn't see Bridgestone mentioned in this thread. I have an MB-series mtb from the early 90s and have ridden an RB-1 from the same era—both very nice bikes. Perhaps not so much a 'fall from glory' as a really decent brand gone altogether?

I think that has been a point of contention in this thread. It's bad enough for a brand to close. It's a much worse thing IMO to have a brand like Schwinn that once made some of the best bicycles anywhere to now make bicycle shaped objects.

[Michael Maddox]

I think that has been a point of contention in this thread. It's bad enough for a brand to close. It's a much worse thing IMO to have a brand like Schwinn that once made some of the best bicycles anywhere to now make bicycle shaped objects.

Mostly because "Schwinn" isn't SCHWINN. It's a set of decals.

The Schwinn I loved (and sold their bikes) is simply gone.

Luckily, as mentioned before, you can buy a Waterford.

I would argue that a complete business failure, while certainly a "fall from glory" is somehow less ignominious than the acquisition and dilution of a name by subsequent owners. Labels like Schwinn, Motobecane....I wish they'd simply gone away, rather than be purchased and bastardized. Still, it's hard to assign blame to the original owners, other than for a lack of business acumen. But this is change, and change is ever-present. Perhaps I should have a bit less nostalgia; I don't find myself wishing for a Packard, though I have certainly known a generation that did.

I own steel, a LOT of steel, but I ride carbon. Change happens.

[Bob Ross]

Unless I missed it, I didn't see Bridgestone mentioned in this thread. I have an MB-series mtb from the early 90s and have ridden an RB-1 from the same era—both very nice bikes. Perhaps not so much a 'fall from glory' as a really decent brand gone altogether?

I still find myself amazed -- amazed I tell you! -- that Bridgestone (tires) is a regular commercial sponsor of the Tour De France telecasts and yet never sees fit to even allude to the bicycles they once made!

[jamesdak]

Hey, I was defending Trek. Just because they grew beyond being an obscure brand that once built hand brazed steel frames into a mass market brand that doesn't appeal to bike snobs, doesn't mean they've fallen. I mean, not many people even heard of them in the "glory" days. That said, my Trek shop is a nationally known dealer and they've generally been goobers. I should be bitter about what happened to Klein as I have a pre-Trek 1993 and once owned a Pinnacle, but hey it happens.

My bad..... reading comprehension compromised while surfing and watching TV....

[froze]

I still find myself amazed -- amazed I tell you! -- that Bridgestone (tires) is a regular commercial sponsor of the Tour De France telecasts and yet never sees fit to even allude to the bicycles they once made!

Yeah, and Bridgestone doesn't even make bicycle tires either. Pirelli came back into the bicycle tire business why can't Bridgestone? At least Bridgestone would then have a reason to be sponsoring the TDF besides money, hopefully Pirelli will become a regular commercial sponsor and give Bridgestone something to cry about.

There have been so many bicycle brands, component brands, and accessory brands that have gone out of business it would be probably impossible to get them all listed.

Geez, I made my list and forgot that I have 3 bike brands that are no longer in business, Schwinn which has been mentioned probably lots of times, Fuji which is now just a decal company like Schwinn (but I think the new Fuji is better quality then the new Schwinn), and Miyata...though that one is an odd one, apparently they exist in other countries under Koga Miyata but is now owned by the Dutch and not the Japanese as originally, so it's not a decal company but was bought out by a bicycle manufacture, yet they don't put Miyata name anywhere on the Koga bikes, so that leads me to believe that Miyata is no more.

[veggieburger]

Yeah, and Bridgestone doesn't even make bicycle tires either.

For real? As massive as Bridgestone is, they don't even own a Maxxis or a Panaracer or some itty bitty sub-brand? Interesting.

[spacemen3]

For real? As massive as Bridgestone is, they don't even own a Maxxis or a Panaracer or some itty bitty sub-brand? Interesting.
Apparently, they do make bicycle tires, just not for this market. Their NEO-COT steel frames look pretty cool, too.

https://www.bscycle.co.jp/global/common/pdf/2017_catalog.pdf

[cadence90]

This joint's "Administrator[s]".

"Imo, of course."....
.

[froze]

Apparently, they do make bicycle tires, just not for this market. Their NEO-COT steel frames look pretty cool, too.

https://www.bscycle.co.jp/global/common/pdf/2017_catalog.pdf

Good find, even Wikipedia didn't make mention of any bike related stuff historically except for the old Bridgestone bike days. I wonder if their stuff is even sold in any store in any country because the web only showed Ebay and some global market as the only places you could get the tires and bikes. I wonder why Bridgestone hasn't gone more global with their bike products? they have the networking and infrastructure system in place to do so.

[dpk501]

ITALMANUBURI- those Ti stems were awesome.

Lance Armstrong.

[Mark McM]

Yeah, and Bridgestone doesn't even make bicycle tires either. Pirelli came back into the bicycle tire business why can't Bridgestone?

Except that Pirelli doesn't actually make bicycle tires, either. They are actually made by Hutchinson.

[trener1]

D (Whoops. Skipped page 7)

Okay, so what about Ibis?

Ibis? They make some of the best MT. Bike out there today, how have they fallen from glory?

[buddybikes]

>>Ibis? They make some of the best MT. Bike out there today, how have they fallen from glory?


1. They were trendy (and good stuff) made in California
2. Grew and moved production overseas
3. went bankrupt
4.Name back in business

[weiwentg]

...

Degraded brands, or brands that are dipping?
-Rapha
-Cannondale
-Ridley
-Santini
-Campagnolo
-De Rosa
-Colnago
-Assos
-Niner

I know this reply is late, but someone else did decide to re-open the thread.

I don't agree that Campy is dipping. In my view, Shimano and SRAM got much better at the higher end. So, at that end, it's much more a competition between equals rather than Campy's brand actually slipping.

[djg]

I read the spirit of the thread as companies that are still around/branding still being used and producing things that are a shadow of the original products.

Serotta folded... but their quality never changed and the brand that came from the ashes (No.22) is top notch. Fair point though that the end of the road was rough for them.

I think that's a real distinction. Business issues aside, Serotta was still turning out excellent frames in the last year or two they were operating under the name.

That seems pretty different from, say, Masi, which seems to have a more purely nominal connection to Masi himself. I don't know that the new ones are not good -- I really have no clear picture of what they are doing -- but I don't think of them as having anything much to do with Masi himself (or Confente, also gone, or Alberto Masi -- Faliero's son). I just don't associate the newer label with the older "glory" at all, except when I think, no, that's not it. OTOH, I think of it not so much a case of a brand going downhill as a brand being peeled off, as a label, and sent somewhere else entirely.

Designing, building, and manufacturing have long had various complications, from workshop to factory. For me, right or wrong, I suppose I think of a particular disconnect in the case of Masi, even if there are all sorts of comparisons one can draw with other brands. I guess I'd actually value the current label as a bit of a minus because of that, but I wonder how many younger riders associate any particular history at all with the brand.

[buddybikes]

Interesting point about MASI in early 70's this was when MASI began building nice machines in US

classicrendevuous:
In the early 1970s, Masi USA was established as a production facility that trained or involved many craftsmen, including Mario Confente, Brian Baylis, Jim Cunningham (CyclArt), Rob Robeson, Dave Moulton, Mike Howard, David Tesch and the Medici marque, among others.

My friends wanted the "true" Italian build. Instead they could of perhaps gotten an early Baylis!

[djg]

Interesting point about MASI in early 70's this was when MASI began building nice machines in US

classicrendevuous:
In the early 1970s, Masi USA was established as a production facility that trained or involved many craftsmen, including Mario Confente, Brian Baylis, Jim Cunningham (CyclArt), Rob Robeson, Dave Moulton, Mike Howard, David Tesch and the Medici marque, among others.

My friends wanted the "true" Italian build. Instead they could of perhaps gotten an early Baylis!

I had a college cycling team mate named Gray Mercer. I think he got one of those California Masis -- a "Criterium" model, which was definitely a road bike and not a so-called crit special, either junior or senior year, if I remember right. Whether I'm making the right rider/bike connection in memory, I definitely remember that as a beautiful bike. Gray could drop me like a rock . . . not sure I'd give the bike much credit for that, but it didn't hold him back.

[macaroon]

I don't agree that Campy is dipping. In my view, Shimano and SRAM got much better at the higher end. So, at that end, it's much more a competition between equals rather than Campy's brand actually slipping.

I don't think it's the higher end stuff, it's the stuff lower down.

Why bother with all that Powertorque/Powershift crap when you could buy something that performs just like Dura Ace for even less money?

Does anyone actually use Centaur/Veloce/any of the other cheapo groupsets? I never see it out in the wild. I doubt any manufacturers spec it on their bikes? Guess it may be popular in Italy?

Marin is a brand for the list.

[weiwentg]

I don't think it's the higher end stuff, it's the stuff lower down.

Why bother with all that Powertorque/Powershift crap when you could buy something that performs just like Dura Ace for even less money?

Does anyone actually use Centaur/Veloce/any of the other cheapo groupsets? I never see it out in the wild. I doubt any manufacturers spec it on their bikes? Guess it may be popular in Italy?

Marin is a brand for the list.

From what I hear, the Powertorque/Powershift stuff perform just fine on their own and are comparable to Shimano stuff of the same level. It's a fair point, and in fact last year I went a bit ballistic about that issue and I went and switched from Chorus 10s to Ultegra R8000 on account of that. However, does that constitute Campy falling from glory? I don't think so.

[oldpotatoe]

I don't think it's the higher end stuff, it's the stuff lower down.

Why bother with all that Powertorque/Powershift crap when you could buy something that performs just like Dura Ace for even less money?

Does anyone actually use Centaur/Veloce/any of the other cheapo groupsets? I never see it out in the wild. I doubt any manufacturers spec it on their bikes? Guess it may be popular in Italy?

Marin is a brand for the list.

Some OE on lower end stuff plus a lot of shops that start with a frame set spec Potenza on down, a Gunnar, as an example...Potenza and disc.
‘Performs just like DA’... interesting you mention that the groups that ‘function’ like DA(and all shimano/sram), rear shift wise is Powershift(one higher gear at a time)..

[joosttx]

Independent Fabrication....

[macaroon]

Some OE on lower end stuff plus a lot of shops that start with a frame set spec Potenza on down, a Gunnar, as an example...Potenza and disc.
‘Performs just like DA’... interesting you mention that the groups that ‘function’ like DA(and all shimano/sram), rear shift wise is Powershift(one higher gear at a time)..

I've never owned Powertorque, but I couldn't understand it on a friends bike and just thought it was an awful design. I briefly owned some Powershift levers and they stopped working. Single down shifts are fine.

I use 10 speed Veloce Ultrashift levers on both of my bikes; they're perfect. Campag just make no sense with these poor quality shifters and badly thought out cranks that now seem to be on their lower end range. Maybe I got unlucky?

[OtayBW]

Does anyone actually use Centaur/Veloce/any of the other cheapo groupsets? I never see it out in the wild.I find that amazing (and amusing) that you [paraphrasing] 'have never seen cheapo Centaur groupsets out in the wild.' In addition to other higher-end groups that I use, I've also run Centaur on 2 bikes over the last ~10 years - an alloy group currently on a early 90's DeRosa where it is a perfect mix of form and function, AFAIK.

[macaroon]

I find that amazing (and amusing) that you [paraphrasing] 'have never seen cheapo Centaur groupsets out in the wild.' In addition to other higher-end groups that I use, I've also run Centaur on 2 bikes over the last ~10 years - an alloy group currently on a early 90's DeRosa where it is a perfect mix of form and function, AFAIK.

You're saying 10 years ago though; Centaur back then was something else entirely!

[raisinberry777]

Why bother with all that Powertorque/Powershift crap when you could buy something that performs just like Dura Ace for even less money?

Credit where credit is due, Campy has really picked up their game here. Powertorque has now been phased out completely and all groupsets now have Ultra Torque cranksets. Powershift was significantly improved in 2015 with the introduction of the EPS style droopy thumb lever, ergonomically it feels fantastic.

[froze]

Except that Pirelli doesn't actually make bicycle tires, either. They are actually made by Hutchinson.

Hutchinson tires are CRAP! Both of my Intensive tires separated, they separated from the center smooth tread off of the side tread that had a pattern. You can see the cords under the separation, and on one tire the separation is about 12 inches long with several other shorter ones. I emailed Hutchinson but received no return messages about warranty replacement, anyway that's the last time I buy Hutchinson tires which also means I won't be buying Pirelli either.

[peanutgallery]

Just about any of the legacy Italian/Euro brands from when we were young

Mavic
Bianchi
Merckx
ITM
Cinelli
3T
DeRosa
Rossin
Battaglin
Look
Time
Campagnolo (yeah...I said it)

Etc and so on

Some due to product and some due to wonky distribution in the US. They are getting boat raced by the Far East and the name means a little less year after year. Premium product back when, now just weird and/or unavailable

[shinomaster]

Campagnolo!

[joosttx]

Hutchinson tires are CRAP! Both of my Intensive tires separated, they separated from the center smooth tread off of the side tread that had a pattern. You can see the cords under the separation, and on one tire the separation is about 12 inches long with several other shorter ones. I emailed Hutchinson but received no return messages about warranty replacement, anyway that's the last time I buy Hutchinson tires which also means I won't be buying Pirelli either.

Completely disagree. I own overrides and sectors on two different bikes and both tire models have been nothing but stellar.

[93KgBike]

http://m.img.brothersoft.com/android/3d/3d7fe71a59ab2f3282eb75ba1774474b_screen0.jpg

[fogrider]

You're saying 10 years ago though; Centaur back then was something else entirely!

I was a Campy guy for years...and my go to fast road bike is still a 10 speed campy equipped bike. But with DA, Ultegra, and Etap, I just don't see Campy on my next bike. If you consider that Ultegra works really well and you can opt for Di2 at an reasonable price, why would you consider Campy? and if you want to spend the bucks, DA and Etap is a good option.

The other problem Campy has is almost no brands use them as OEM. Just about anyone can walk into a shop that carries any of the big brands and swing their leg over a mechanical Ultegra bike and come back and test a Di2 bike back to back. Try to do that with a Campy mechanical and EPS bike. In fact, in many shops you won't even find a Campy equipped bike at all.

[CunegoFan]

Coming back into mountain biking I was surprised at how far Shimano has fallen. It seemed like most of the bikes I looked had XX1 as their top build. X01 was second tier. Then would come XTR, which was often an XTR/XT mix. Then GX and NX, maybe an XT/SLX build in between. You want the best fork, shock, dropper, and wheels then it's a SRAM build for you.

Shimano used to be top dog. How did it let SRAM take its place?

[Pinned]

Coming back into mountain biking I was surprised at how far Shimano has fallen. It seemed like most of the bikes I looked had XX1 as their top build. X01 was second tier. Then would come XTR, which was often an XTR/XT mix. Then GX and NX, maybe an XT/SLX build in between. You want the best fork, shock, dropper, and wheels then it's a SRAM build for you.

Shimano used to be top dog. How did it let SRAM take its place?

It's cyclical in the MTB world. I remember running SRAM around 2006-2009ish because it was the best, then Shimano's newer mountain groupsets eclipsed SRAM's performance (brakes especially). I think it'll continue to flip flop like that because the 'standards' change so rapidly.

[froze]

Completely disagree. I own overrides and sectors on two different bikes and both tire models have been nothing but stellar.

Well that's good for you except the issues I had and what others had is on road tires not MTB, or gravel tires; but since I never had a bicycle tire ever separate before, and since they refuse to answer my emails to get the warranty to cover it, I'm not ever going to buy a tire from them, or now Pirelli.

You have to read all the posts on this because what starts as a stupid hole that wasn't Hutchinson fault others chime in with issues they had which is Hutchinson's fault;
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/hutchinson-fusion-3-25mm-tubeless-failures-324524.html

https://www.amazon.com/Hutchinson-Fusion-3-Kev-Fold-Tire/dp/B017P4UCK6

[oldpotatoe]

I've never owned Powertorque, but I couldn't understand it on a friends bike and just thought it was an awful design. I briefly owned some Powershift levers and they stopped working. Single down shifts are fine.

I use 10 speed Veloce Ultrashift levers on both of my bikes; they're perfect. Campag just make no sense with these poor quality shifters and badly thought out cranks that now seem to be on their lower end range. Maybe I got unlucky?

2015 saw an upgrade to Powershift(droopy thumb button) and are MUCH more reliable.
Nothing wrong with PowerTorque cranks..badly thought out cranks? Just like just about every other design of cranks out there(BIG spindle with LH crank arm bolted on).

PLUS Centaur and Potenza, 'NOW' on their lower end range..are both UltraTorque cranks.

Just for info:)

[Tony]

Ibis? They make some of the best MT. Bike out there today, how have they fallen from glory?

delete

[joosttx]

1, Sector is a road tire.
2. This thread about brands that fallen from glory

Having a bad experience with a tire is far from a company falling from glory. Again, i find their tires great. And when the sector came out it was on of the only tubeless ready road tire which I thought was quite innovative.

This is not an ax to grind thread.


Well that's good for you except the issues I had and what others had is on road tires not MTB, or gravel tires; but since I never had a bicycle tire ever separate before, and since they refuse to answer my emails to get the warranty to cover it, I'm not ever going to buy a tire from them, or now Pirelli.

You have to read all the posts on this because what starts as a stupid hole that wasn't Hutchinson fault others chime in with issues they had which is Hutchinson's fault;
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/hutchinson-fusion-3-25mm-tubeless-failures-324524.html

https://www.amazon.com/Hutchinson-Fusion-3-Kev-Fold-Tire/dp/B017P4UCK6

[cribbit]

As an owner of multiple Serottas I agree, but I would also agree that, as a brand, Serotta’s fall from glory is pretty spectacular. There was a time—for decades—when people lusted wildly for a Serotta. The bikes actually got better and better, but for reasons that have been beaten to death here (and for a bunch of reason that had nothing to do with the company’s demise but nevertheless have also been beaten to death here), the company squandered its brand value. The fact that Ben’s various attempts to reboot are met with tepid interest at best is a sad affirmation of this phenomenon.

Having spent some time speaking to both Ben and Doriano DeRosa at NAHBS, I wish them both the best, but it was kind of sad to see two giants of the industry mostly passed by.

Can you expand or link on this? I'm not familiar with that history.

[El Chaba]

No need to pick out brands...The whole industry has fallen from glory...

[Tony]

Mostly MTB stuff

Salsa. I know the current stuff is probably really good, but the old school mtb guy in me longs for a custom roller stem.

Syncros - used to make really neat stuff, now Scott's House Brand and not so interesting

I'd also suggest that Brodie is not the same since Paul left and cycletech took 100% ownership. The gatorblade and sloping top tube innovations still stand out as amazing things.

Finally, Rocky Mountain. The original blizzard and bikes made in Vancouver where great.

Still make some great MTBs!

[Tony]

Don't forget Avocet. Where did they go? (Whoops. Skipped page 7)

Okay, so what about Ibis?

Still make some of the best MTBs out there!

[joosttx]

Still make some of the best MTBs out there!

I have to second this. Ibis did and is making great bikes.


What is funny, probably one of their biggest fails, the Ti-bow, is probably their most iconic bike.

[Dad2TnR]

They never really had any glory, but Rawland bikes were growing a cult-like following until things went awry over the past 1+ year. Cool, out-of-the-box frame ideas and limited number of frames released helped generate demand. Now there's some kind of ownership/branding battle between Sean and a former business partner.

I had a Drakkar and loved it. Wish I never sold it.

[davidb]

No one has mentioned Kestrel-- they used to be the cat's ass of USA made carbon. Not sure they are more than a bikesdirect brand now.
Sold a lot of Kestrels back in the day. They were such a well run company. Made great frames, forks and handlebars. Then the Talon. When production moved overseas it was all downhill. Service & warranty went to crap. Once Ideal/Fuji purchased it was all over. Sad as they were one of the first US made carbon frames.

[bfd]

Sold a lot of Kestrels back in the day. They were such a well run company. Made great frames, forks and handlebars. Then the Talon. When production moved overseas it was all downhill. Service & warranty went to crap. Once Ideal/Fuji purchased it was all over. Sad as they were one of the first US made carbon frames.

Yeah, Kestrel. They were one of the first with a carbon fork. But, it had a steel steerer tube, so it was heavy (like 500g?). Then they came out with a titanium steerer tube fork that was lighter, like 400+g, but still not competitive with the 350g carbon steerer tube forks from Reynolds, Alpha Q (which was purchased by True Temper) and Easton to name a few.

Interestingly, Reynolds, True Temper and Easton are now all out of the carbon fork business.

Innovate or Die....Good Luck!

[tommyrod74]

Still make some great MTBs!

There's a trend on this forum re: MTB - a lot of posters think that mountain bikes peaked with (or before) the advent of the v-brake and it's been all downhill (pun intended) ever since.

[veggieburger]

If disagreement is ok, Sidi has not declined in quality. I have tiny, narrow, poorly constructed Sidi shoes from the 80 and 90's that cannot hold a candle in comfort, quality of construction or performance to my Sidi 6.6 Mega or Dragon Mega shoes that are robust, light, and comfortable albeit not the cheapest.

If you're a 44.5, I will happily take all those 80s and 90s "narrow, poorly constructed" Sidis off your hands. My narrow feet love them, and when a pair of shoes can be punished for over a decade and still keep going..

Miss those old shoes and their terrible, gaudy color schemes.

[buddybikes]

Anyone here remember Hi-E engineering based in Tennessee. 1970s produced ultralight hubs and wheels.

Then of course Sturmey Archer

[peanutgallery]

I won a pair of hubs in a crit in about 1990.
Cashed my check at the liquor store a lit outta town.
Built them with some GL330s and rose them until cassette bodies became a thing. Satin cast aluminum and big flange for the rear.

Anyone here remember Hi-E engineering based in Tennessee. 1970s produced ultralight hubs and wheels.

Then of course Sturmey Archer

[bikeridah]

Guerciotti!

Italian steel to chinese carbon. Puke

[mcteague]

Is Avocet still a company? Big deal back in the day, best cyclometer, nice tires, saddles and components.

Tim

[merckx]

Is Avocet still a company? Big deal back in the day, best cyclometer, nice tires, saddles and components.

Tim

IIRC, Avocet components were rebranded Ofmega. They were mediocre.

How about Galli?

[oldpotatoe]

Sold a lot of Kestrels back in the day. They were such a well run company. Made great frames, forks and handlebars. Then the Talon. When production moved overseas it was all downhill. Service & warranty went to crap. Once Ideal/Fuji purchased it was all over. Sad as they were one of the first US made carbon frames.

Except just about all of the first run 4000s(1986?) split right above the rear brake bridge..BUT after they fixed that, some nice gear..

[El Chaba]

IIRC, Avocet components were rebranded Ofmega. They were mediocre.

How about Galli?

Galli was interesting...they made a few parts, but then sourced quite a few from France...Their hubs were Maillard, the cranksets and BBs Stronglight, etc. If you look closely you can see that the rear derailleur pictured-made by Galli- has some Simplex parts like the jockey wheels... It's funny that the Italian company named Galli used quite a few Gallic parts...

[buddybikes]

ZEUS!!!! Campy copies in 1970's

[merckx]

ZEUS!!!! Campy copies in 1970's

Everything was Campy copies in the 70's!

[merckx]

Galli was interesting...they made a few parts, but then sourced quite a few from France...Their hubs were Maillard, the cranksets and BBs Stronglight, etc. If you look closely you can see that the rear derailleur pictured-made by Galli- has some Simplex parts like the jockey wheels... It's funny that the Italian company named Galli used quite a few Gallic parts...

These are still hung on my brother's Moto that remains suspended from a hook in my parent's basement.

[BrianE]

REI. Admittedly, my first introduction to them was way back in the early 80's. I still have a pair of their Wool knickers. Little to no interest in their offerings now a days....., sigh.

[mattnes17]

REI. Admittedly, my first introduction to them was way back in the early 80's. I still have a pair of their Wool knickers. Little to no interest in their offerings now a days....., sigh.

I'm with you. They used to be my first stop for gear (especially their house brand) or for advice. These days they are just bland and expensive copies/knockoffs.