Mosaic RT-2 Stock Build Program

[Clean39T]

http://theradavist.com/2018/03/mosaic-launches-their-rt-2-stock-titanium-frame-and-completes-program/

$3600 for stock F/F.

And yet for $3650, there's DeSalvo offering a custom 44mm HT OS butted tubing ti frame here (http://www.desalvocycles.com/bikes/titanium-road/).

Will be interesting to see how these are received.

[R3awak3n]

similar to moots model no?

[chiasticon]

And yet for $3650, there's DeSalvo offering a custom 44mm HT OS butted tubing ti frame here (http://www.desalvocycles.com/bikes/titanium-road/).or fully butted tubing, stock sizing, 44mm HT, with a two week wait for $3300 from No 22: https://22bicycles.com/products/great-divide-made-to-order

am I blind or does Mosaic not have any prices on their website? "contact us for pricing" with stock sizing and a short waiting period seems to be conflicting concepts...

[hollowgram5]

or fully butted tubing, stock sizing, 44mm HT, with a two week wait for $3300 from No 22: https://22bicycles.com/products/great-divide-made-to-order

am I blind or does Mosaic not have any prices on their website? "contact us for pricing" with stock sizing and a short waiting period seems to be conflicting concepts...I noticed the lack of pricing yesterday as well. I think I'd prefer one of those others (No22 or Desalvo) to the Mosaic.

Its the same mentaility I have with the Speedvagrn OG1 stuff, except that's a Geo chart that's seemingly not readily available on their site. Stock sizes means different things to different builders/people.

[NYCfixie]

http://theradavist.com/2018/03/mosaic-launches-their-rt-2-stock-titanium-frame-and-completes-program/

$3600 for stock F/F.

And yet for $3650, there's DeSalvo offering a custom 44mm HT OS butted tubing ti frame here (http://www.desalvocycles.com/bikes/titanium-road/).

Will be interesting to see how these are received.

I am not seeing the value in Mosaic "stock" bikes.

You can get a FULL CUSTOM Seven Axiom SL Frame/Fork in about 8 weeks for I think $4250.

I believe IF Bikes offers the same in a Ti Crown Jewel for about the same price and with about the same turn-around time.

Yes, the stock saves you about 20% and maybe a few weeks on delivery but that price/cost delta means much less over the life of a Ti frame/fork (IMHO) and you get something but specifically for you.

If someone wants a stock offering because they do not plan on keeping the frame that long than maybe it is a good alternative to Moots. The thing to consider is that Moots still has much better brand recognition for the general public and a great long term reputation in our niche world of crazy bike enthusiasts.

[sparky33]

I don't know. The presentation, pricing, concept that Mosiac has or lacks is fine. We could hardly expect different companies to all have the same form of offering. Anyone how knows what Mosaic is can probably shoot an email too.

fwiw this pricing is not really new... this is what I had been sent for 2017
RT-1 Frameset 5500
RT-1d Frameset 5500
RT-2 Frameset (stock) 3600
RT-2d Frameset (stock) 4000
RS-1 Frameset 4250
RS-2 Frameset (stock) 3300

Pricing seems in-line with other high-end ti.

[chiasticon]

RT-1 Frameset 5500

Pricing seems in-line with other high-end ti.an equivalent Firefly starts at 4600. a Seven Axiom SLX starts at 6600. Moots RSL is 5100. so... yeah, they're near the high end I'd say.

the hidden pricing thing just seems silly to me. if IF, Firefly, Moots, Seven, No 22, Eriksen and...pretty much everyone else that makes a steel or Ti frame will let you know what their frames start at, why can't Mosaic? yeah I can email them, but why should I have to?

[eBAUMANN]

an equivalent Firefly starts at 4600. a Seven Axiom SLX starts at 6600. Moots RSL is 5100. so... yeah, they're near the high end I'd say.

the hidden pricing thing just seems silly to me. if IF, Firefly, Moots, Seven, No 22, Eriksen and...pretty much everyone else that makes a steel or Ti frame will let you know what their frames start at, why can't Mosaic? yeah I can email them, but why should I have to?

i feel like those with $3500+ to spend on a frameset probably arent price shopping...they are going with the brand that speaks to them the most (for whatever reason) for whatever that price might be...

[joosttx]

an equivalent Firefly starts at 4600. a Seven Axiom SLX starts at 6600. Moots RSL is 5100. so... yeah, they're near the high end I'd say.

the hidden pricing thing just seems silly to me. if IF, Firefly, Moots, Seven, No 22, Eriksen and...pretty much everyone else that makes a steel or Ti frame will let you know what their frames start at, why can't Mosaic? yeah I can email them, but why should I have to?

I think Mosaic go to market strategy is for the customer to engage with the bike shop. By not having pricing on their webpage pushes the customer to inquire at the bike shop. Is that a sound practice or not is debatable.

[sooshi]

For what it's worth, I recently ordered a Potts and his frames are $3400'ish. His lead time is 4-8 weeks and that's pretty accurate. I have a few other custom frames and he was by far the easiest, most enjoyable to work with. He's also the nicest, most knowledgeable guy you could come across.

[happycampyer]

Moots doesn’t post their prices on their website. Seven posts prices, but only of unspecified build prices (e.g., Shimano Ultegra from $x,xxx).

[Clean39T]

For what it's worth, I recently ordered a Potts and his frames are $3400'ish. His lead time is 4-8 weeks and that's pretty accurate. I have a few other custom frames and he was by far the easiest, most enjoyable to work with. He's also the nicest, most knowledgeable guy you could come across.


He’s in my rotating top-3 for a Ti roadie — what’re you having him build for ya?

[sooshi]

I had him build a hardtail 29'er with his stem and a post he is now fabricating. I wish I would have looked to him sooner when I was in the market for a gravel bike. Can't say enough good things about him, super nice and always answered the phone when I called.

[sandyrs]

Moots doesn’t post their prices on their website. Seven posts prices, but only of unspecified build prices (e.g., Shimano Ultegra from $x,xxx).

Moots does indeed post prices. I know this because I frequently observe and lament them :). This is from the product page for the Mooto X RSL. Maybe they're not listed for every model?

[happycampyer]

^ That’s actually fairly new and, like Seven, it doesn’t show the base frame + fork cost (although unlike Seven, it does provide details of the build kit, so one could theoretically back out a frame + fork price).

[12snap]

^ That’s actually fairly new and, like Seven, it doesn’t show the base frame + fork cost (although unlike Seven, it does provide details of the build kit, so one could theoretically back out a frame + fork price).

I see a cost for a frame/fork/headset on the far right of the picture. They have it for every model. Moots has had those price lists on their website for at least the last 2 years. I know this because that's when I started looking for used ones and wanted to know the full MSRP so I could compare.

[pdmtong]

Moots doesn’t post their prices on their website. Seven posts prices, but only of unspecified build prices (e.g., Shimano Ultegra from $x,xxx).

just go to wrench science for an approximate since Moots website (**Full bike photo may not match build kits*Frame & Fork available, call for pricing)
https://www.wrenchscience.com/road/frames/Moots/

[josephr]

meh...straight gauge tubing for $3600?...save $2400 and get a Habanero...half that for a Lynskey 150.

[happycampyer]

I see a cost for a frame/fork/headset on the far right of the picture. They have it for every model. Moots has had those price lists on their website for at least the last 2 years. I know this because that's when I started looking for used ones and wanted to know the full MSRP so I could compare.I just double checked and, as I recalled, they don't have it for the models I've cared about. Didn't ralize they listed frameset prices for other models. No frameset price for RSL, RSL Disc, Vamoots, Vamoots DR, Routt RSL, Routt, Routt 45, etc. They have it for the Baxter and the mountain bikes but, other than my ancient 26" YBB collecting dust, I have no interest in a Moots mountain bike so I've never bothered to look at those.

just go to wrench science Yeah, I know about WrenchScience. The criticism was that Mosaic doesn't list prices on its website, and I was simply pointing out that they are not alone. As noted, companies that sell through dealers (such as Seven, Moots, etc.) have historically not shown their prices on their websites. Iirc, there was a time when Moots policed their dealers, and prevented them from posting prices on the web (this was in the 2000's). I got my YBB through Speedgoat (remember them?), and they couldn't post prices on their website even though they were primarily a web-based retailer (they did have a brick-and-mortar shop, but I doubt many locals were buying Moots).

[Clean39T]

AdrenalineBikes.com for Moots pricing? They show MSRP at least.

[12snap]

I just double checked and, as I recalled, they don't have it for the models I've cared about. Didn't ralize they listed frameset prices for other models. No frameset price for RSL, RSL Disc, Vamoots, Vamoots DR, Routt RSL, Routt, Routt 45, etc. They have it for the Baxter and the mountain bikes but, other than my ancient 26" YBB collecting dust, I have no interest in a Moots mountain bike so I've never bothered to look.

Sorry, my bad. Moots did previously list frameset prices for their road bikes. This "call for pricing" is new this year.

[happycampyer]

AdrenalineBikes.com for Moots pricing? They show MSRP at least.
Yes, and if you look at the prices on WrenchScience and Adrenaline, they aren't the same. For example, Adrenaline has the RSL for $5,069, and WS has it for $4,499. For the Baxter, which Moots lists a frameset price for $4,626, Adrenaline has it for the same price and WS has it for $3,839. Not sure how WS gets away with that—Moots used to be tough on dealers that discounted. I recall my LBS telling me that they couldn't discount the frames I bought from them, but could discount the built kit. In any case, Adrenaline and WS are online shops.

It seems that if the company's strategy is to sell direct, it lists prices on its website (e.g., Firefly, Eriksen, etc.). However, if the strategy is (primarily) to sell through LBSs, more often than not, it makes pricing more opaque, by not showing any prices (Mosaic), or only showing build-kit prices (Seven) or selective frame prices (Moots). IF appears to be an exception. Not sure which category No. 22 fits into, because they sell direct and have a relatively small dealer network.

Other than Moots, Seven, IF, Mosaic and No.22, what builders are there that primarily sell through dealers? I suppose there's Passoni and Legend, but I'm thinking US builders.