canyon Hoverbars - yikes

[AngryScientist]

seems manufacturers are going further and further away from the core concept of drop bar road bikes. i get the gravel thing, and i get wanting to achieve different positions, but at what cost?

the bike itself looks pretty good though!

https://cdn-cyclingtips.pressidium.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/canyonGrail001.jpg

https://cdn-cyclingtips.pressidium.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/canyonGrail12.jpg

https://cdn-cyclingtips.pressidium.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/canyonGrail16.jpg

[Cicli]

That is ridiculous looking.

[roguedog]

Huh..

At first my reaction was. Whoa.. WTH . And then I stared at it some more and thought.. huh.. so my stuff (handlebar bag, garmin, light, etc) can hang on one bar and then my hands can actually sit on the HANDlebar. Huh...interesting.. hmm.. I can see that use case. Hell I experience it every day in winter.

[AngryScientist]

the other thing is that - have these guys ever ridden sloppy gravel roads? grit and grime get everywhere! it would be a nightmare to clean and service this front end if it regularly sees sloppy wet or very dusty rides, it looks like.

https://cdn-cyclingtips.pressidium.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/CanyonGrail8.jpg

[ptourkin]

Can't wait for the takes here.
Hover bars aside, there are a lot of thoughtful features.
Certain folk will be happy they are selling it as 2x (1X is a niche of a niche, remember.) It is disc though...

http://road.cc/content/tech-news/238657-canyon-launches-radical-grail-gravel-bike

Ride review: http://road.cc/content/tech-news/237910-first-ride-canyon-grail

[jruhlen1980]

What is this "cleaning" you speak of?

[Clean39T]

the other thing is that - have these guys ever ridden sloppy gravel roads? grit and grime get everywhere! it would be a nightmare to clean and service this front end if it regularly sees sloppy wet or very dusty rides, it looks like.


Very good point. Have similar qualms about the Trek Domane SLR with the split seat-tube.

I just don't get the dual handlebar though. It seems like it would make the drops ridiculously rigid. And unless they put a second set of brake levers up on the top handlebars, what's the point?

Seems there is already a solution to all this.

http://www.velorambler.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/img_0546.jpg

And dare I say it looks a he11 of a lot better than the Canyon setup.

[v531xc]

stem size: M I'm curious how many different sizes they'll offer.

I do get the use case of adding bikepacking gear, lights, and other mounts to the lower potion so one can actually use the bar. I also get the engineering behind it to keep the frame stack low for stiffness but allow for overall rider stack to be within comfort. It just doesn't seem to allow for much adjustability without Canyon proprietary spacers. Kinda like an ISP for your hands instead of your butt.

To me, it seems like a small front rack could've solved a majority of this, would be able to be sold aftermarket to fit more use cases, and would probably be lighter if not at least the same exact weight.

[benb]

I think experimentation with bars is pretty interesting an maybe we still need more of it but these are certainly weird. I wonder if they're race legal for one thing. I can't really see why they'd be any more dangerous than normal road bars.

I'd be interested to see "swept back" tops on a bar to put your wrists in a more neutral position when on the tops and/or provide a more upright position. Just extend the reach out to the hoods more than normal to keep the hoods in the normal position.

I also wonder with these bars if they stuck the extra crossbar in a different place if it could facilitate the pseudo aero position that you see a lot of pro roadies using. If this thing turns out to be declared illegal in racing I guess you could stick clip on bars on it too.

It doesn't look like they're doing anything but this bar could also be used in some way so that the top of the bar provided isolation like the Trek SLR front end. But putting it in the bar might be a lot easier/cheaper/simpler than Trek's or Specialized's crazy front end designs.

I have a 2016 model Domane with the previous design... the pivot on that one doesn't attract grime at all. Maybe the new one is worse though, hard to say. Back in 2016 when I did B2VT we got 3 hours of hard rain in the middle of the ride + dirt roads that turned seriously muddy. No problems at all with the seat tube... the front derailleur picked up enough mud to jam, but I was able to clean it out at a rest stop pretty easily and it worked perfectly the rest of the ride after that.

[texbike]

This just seems like a bit of a band-aid to address the lack of flexibility in raising the bar higher with a one piece bar/stem combo.

Texbike

[chiasticon]

you guys gotta read the BikeRadar ride review. the dual bars act as suspension, over using the types that Trek and Specialized have done, or a suspension fork. apparently the top bar has a lot of give, the middle of which is not for resting your hands on (in fact, you're not supposed to) and it allows the top and hoods to visibly flex a lot. the bottom part is for stabilizing your hands for descents.

not sure how I feel but it's certainly interesting. Canyon's Inflite kinked top tube was pretty polarizing as well. their argument is that most of their users are young and less taken by tradition, so they're free to try new things with less fear of turning potential users off. I get it. interested to see how it does at least (likewise with Inflite).

[dieonthishill]

I look forward to the re-release of the bike when they haven't sold any in 6 months. :help:

[AngryScientist]

The other thing: how many times do you set up a new bike and have guessed wrong on the stem length/height or bar shape. It's a real commitment to buy into this system.

[chiasticon]

also worth noting that a lot of gravel/all-road riders these days use a handlebar bag of some variety. this thing looks super weird with a stripped down bike but with all your crap on it, and a handlebar bag, you'll barely notice it. if it does improve the ride as they claim, and you can barely even see the weirdness, no worries.

[jtbadge]

Saw 'em on BP this morning (https://www.instagram.com/p/BgWIAM-F2F-/?taken-by=bicyclepubes). I thought for sure he made it up... but you can't make this **** up.

[Tony Edwards]

Canyon today announced its new Grail gravel bike, and the related press embargo broke. There are several first-ride and other articles online, including:

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/canyons-new-grail-gravel-bike-comes-radical-bar-design-372528

http://www.velonews.com/2018/03/bikes-and-tech/first-ride-canyon-grail-cf-unusual-hover-bar_459593

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/03/canyon-grail-gravel-bike-first-ride-review/

I have to say I'm disappointed. The "Hover" bar seems like an elaborate engineering solution to a problem that doesn't exist. If Canyon goes out of business or ceases making the Grail, it may become very difficult or impossible to simply replace the bar and stem on the bike, and in any case it's very limiting in terms of the choices available. It's also pretty awful-looking to my eyes (though that is obviously subjective). On the plus side, it's very light, fairly priced, and, presumably, well built. All things considered it's a pass for me.

EDIT: Just noticed the Hoverbar thread - mods please feel free to delete this post or consolidate the threads.

[MattTuck]

Reminds me of those CAD renderings of people's drawings of bikes.

[old fat man]

you guys gotta read the BikeRadar ride review. the dual bars act as suspension, over using the types that Trek and Specialized have done, or a suspension fork. apparently the top bar has a lot of give, the middle of which is not for resting your hands on (in fact, you're not supposed to) and it allows the top and hoods to visibly flex a lot. the bottom part is for stabilizing your hands for descents.

not sure how I feel but it's certainly interesting. Canyon's Inflite kinked top tube was pretty polarizing as well. their argument is that most of their users are young and less taken by tradition, so they're free to try new things with less fear of turning potential users off. I get it. interested to see how it does at least (likewise with Inflite).

Can't we just judge it by looks alone, like my 5 year old son does when I put vegetables on his plate?

[middec11]

I like it when companies push design forward and think out of the box. But I can't imagine ever riding or buying this bike with that front end.

[Mark McM]

The Hover bar looks like it was inspired by some of Sheldon Brown's double handlebar bikes:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/org/thorn/images/thorn.jpg

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/surly-rohloff/images/1-rightside.jpg

http://sheldonbrown.com/org/brown/images/02handlebars1.jpg

[Jaybee]

The lower crossbar looks like it's right in the way of my favorite spot for loose gravel descents - deep in the hooks.

[zap]

Good grief.

[jtbadge]

The lower crossbar looks like it's right in the way of my favorite spot for loose gravel descents - deep in the hooks.

People buying these bikes don't ride in the drops.

[Clean39T]

People buying these bikes don't ride in the drops.

Or sprint..

Which is what the alleged benefits are to stiffer drops.

[Mark McM]

I think experimentation with bars is pretty interesting an maybe we still need more of it but these are certainly weird. I wonder if they're race legal for one thing. I can't really see why they'd be any more dangerous than normal road bars.

I'd be interested to see "swept back" tops on a bar to put your wrists in a more neutral position when on the tops and/or provide a more upright position. Just extend the reach out to the hoods more than normal to keep the hoods in the normal position.

I also wonder with these bars if they stuck the extra crossbar in a different place if it could facilitate the pseudo aero position that you see a lot of pro roadies using. If this thing turns out to be declared illegal in racing I guess you could stick clip on bars on it too.

That middle cross bar seems much like the Hooker Legal Speed aero bar:

https://www.pedalroom.com/p/hooker-elite-cat-1-18674_43.jpg

(There was another similar product, but I can't remember the name of it.)

As far as I know the Hooker Legal Speed bar is still legal for USCF racing, although I'm not sure how the UCI would look upon it.

From the photos of the Hover bar, what I'm wondering is how that crossbar affects hand position in the drops? Do your thumbs go above or below the bar? And what if you are using Campagnolo levers - does the cross bar get in the way of moving your thumb to the upshift lever/button?

[R3awak3n]

I mean, it still looks better than the stupid lauf fork. The competition is tight though. WHO WILL MAKE THE DUMBEST LOOKING PRODUCTS? stay tuned. I am sure spesh is coming out with something.


That said, this looks hella fun to ride

[Jaybee]

I mean, it still looks better than the stupid lauf fork. The competition is tight though. WHO WILL MAKE THE DUMBEST LOOKING PRODUCTS? stay tuned. I am sure spesh is coming out with something.


That said, this looks hella fun to ride

I actually don't mind the lauf fork when the legs are painted to match.

https://cdnmos-bikeradar.global.ssl.fastly.net/images/bikes-and-gear/bikes/road/20170717_170707-1502193221784-1h73el7isz9wj-1502381832994-1d2nivkmmyxn4-630-80.jpg


And almost all the ride reports on the lauf are glowing. If the Canyon turns out the same way, then I'd overlook weirdness in favor of function.

[Ozz]

(There was another similar product, but I can't remember the name of it.)


Scott Drop In bars? I had the Specialized version on my 1993 Allez Pro....

[oldpotatoe]

I don’t get it. ***arge? What ‘problem’ do these silly lookin things solve? How do ya get the levers on?

[fignon's barber]

Canyon should offer the Grail with a more conventional bar as an option. Although I applaud them for thinking out of the box, I see a major safety flaw: if you are in the drops and have even a minor crash in which the bar suddenly jerks, you will fracture your thumb. Secondly the Hoverbar will force your hand position into one fixed position. Thirdly, after an extended time on bumpy surfaces, the base of your thumb will be repeatedly ponded on the bar.
Additionally, the benefit they pitch (compliance and shock adsorbing), would only be a real benefit if your wrists/elbows/shoulders were fused in a rigid fixed line. Of course, this isn't true: nature gives humans natural shock absorbers.

[John H.]

I think it is a cool idea- I would have to ride it, but I get it.

The position is aggressive- not high and higher. The bottom part is level with the top tube. Like a modern time trial bike.

[David Tollefson]

Looks like a ghetto bodge to me.

[AngryScientist]

How do ya get the levers on?

excellent question.

[cachagua]

Y'all are missing the point. This is for downforce.

GLUES your front wheel to those pebbly, off-camber turns! A whole new world of traction!

[John H.]

I bet if someone like English made a similar design and showed it at NAHBS people would be tripping all over themselves saying how cool it is-

[zap]

I bet if someone like English made a similar design and showed it at NAHBS people would be tripping all over themselves saying how cool it is-

No.

[velotrack]

for a second i thought this was gonna be another re-do of the specialized bars but this is ... worse.

[AngryScientist]

The lower crossbar looks like it's right in the way of my favorite spot for loose gravel descents - deep in the hooks.

excellent point. same for me. this bar would actually eliminate one of my favorite hand positions.

[Mark McM]

Scott Drop In bars? I had the Specialized version on my 1993 Allez Pro....

Actually, I was thinking of the Breakaway bar:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697953616&stc=1&d=1516763884

[ptourkin]

excellent question.
Mounting levers to the bars is achieved via the preinstalled clamps. There’s still plenty of adjustment, so finding the right lever hood angle shouldn’t be a problem. Installing all major manufactures offerings from Shimano, Campagnolo and SRAM are all compatible.

[AngryScientist]

Mounting levers to the bars is achieved via the preinstalled clamps. There’s still plenty of adjustment, so finding the right lever hood angle shouldn’t be a problem. Installing all major manufactures offerings from Shimano, Campagnolo and SRAM are all compatible.

i'm not sure what you are saying, but below is what the campy shifter clamps look like. normal procedure on a stop bar is to thread them on from the bottom. the mid bar precludes this possibility. i guess you could open them up, but that might be tricky not to deform them getting around the bar.

http://www.treefortbikes.com/images/raw/LD9970.jpg

[tculbreath]

Ugly, but very forward thinking....similar to a lauf fork. Works awesome, but not the most aesthetically appealing. :eek:

[ptourkin]

i'm not sure what you are saying, but below is what the campy shifter clamps look like. normal procedure on a stop bar is to thread them on from the bottom. the mid bar precludes this possibility. i guess you could open them up, but that might be tricky not to deform them getting around the bar.

http://www.treefortbikes.com/images/raw/LD9970.jpg

I didn't say it:

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/03/canyon-grail-gravel-bike-first-ride-review/

[sandyrs]

I bet if someone like English made a similar design and showed it at NAHBS people would be tripping all over themselves saying how cool it is-

No

[Bob Ross]

the dual bars act as suspension...apparently the top bar has a lot of give, the middle of which is not for resting your hands on (in fact, you're not supposed to) and it allows the top and hoods to visibly flex a lot.

I got ten dollars that says I can predict exactly where that top bar is going to break when it does.

[spacemen3]

Not bad. They look a lot less stupid than Specialized's Hover riser handlebars.

[rain dogs]

If this was their best concept, I shudder when thinking of the discarded concepts. I don't know if they could have made this less appealing if they tried, and the imagery of a dis-connected handlebar??? :confused: Maybe not the best visual language.

"It's great! ... it looks like my bars are completely disconnected from my bike... oh wait, they are! :eek:...grrruuuuanch."

The design would be much more aesthetically pleasing (although maybe just as silly) if they just realized that the stem is totally unneccessary, especially since it only comes in one size

[sandyrs]

Pretty cool that they released a "bikepacking bike" (complete with its own custom frame bag setup) whose a proprietary handlebar/fork both feature no place to mount a light (no round section on the bar top and no crown hole on the fork). I'm generally a fan of Canyon but **** this.

[zross312]

My problem with it is less conceptual (though I think that leaves a lot to be desired too) then executional. It seems like they could have done some legitimately cool stuff with the new front end real estate they've created (which is at a premium nowadays, with computers, lights, etc.). Custom front rack complete with decaleur and accompanying randonneuring-style bag? Integrated water storage and lighting? Hell, a map case? I mean, if you're gonna go crazy, you may as well go CRAZY, and IMO this doesn't offer any differentiations that could provide real value to a buyer. It's neither fish nor fowl (and not easy on the eyes to boot).

Does anyone care to make prediction as to when they announce another gravel bike with a standard cockpit as an "additional" offering, and then quietly euthanize this thing? I'd guess 8 months, tops.

[benb]

I'm finding it hard to believe adding the second bar makes the bar flex MORE.

You look at the marketing copy for that old school "Breakaway Bar" and they claim adding another cross bar makes the bar more stiff. That makes way more sense.

[bicycletricycle]

I don't understand

[Mark McM]

I'm finding it hard to believe adding the second bar makes the bar flex MORE.

The idea is that all the components between the frame and hands flex (stem, handlebars), and the longer the load path, the more flex there is. On a traditional bar, the drops flex more than the bar tops, because the drops have a longer load path (lever arm). On the Hoverbar, when the hands are the bar top, the load path goes from the stem through the front cross bar to the curves, then up the curves, and finally across the tops. A much longer load path than at the bar tops of traditional bars, so 'give' here is a sum of all the deflections along the load path. The thin center section of the tops adds a kind of 'hinge', furthering decrease the stiffness of the tops.

I have no doubt that these bars have more 'give' than standard bars. But how much more? And I've got to believe there's a better way to do it. Why not a flex stem?

Canyon claims that the purpose of the Hoverbar is to maintain stiffness at the drops, for control on steep descents. But let's compare this to MTBs - particularly downhill racing MTBs . Even though the whole front of the bike is suspended through the fork (with 6+" of front travel), there's still plenty of stiffness at the ends of the handlebars to maintain control on steeper and gnarlier drop-offs than this Canyon is likely to see.

[R3awak3n]

I bet if someone like English made a similar design and showed it at NAHBS people would be tripping all over themselves saying how cool it is-

no

[bicycletricycle]

Why connect the bars together on the top then?


The idea is that all the components between the frame and hands flex (stem, handlebars), and the longer the load path, the more flex there is. On a traditional bar, the drops flex more than the bar tops, because the drops have a longer load path (lever arm). On the Hoverbar, when the hands are the bar top, the load path goes from the stem through the front cross bar to the curves, then up the curves, and finally across the tops. A much longer load path than at the bar tops of traditional bars, so 'give' here is a sum of all the deflections along the load path. The thin center section of the tops adds a kind of 'hinge', furthering decrease the stiffness of the tops.

I have no doubt that these bars have more 'give' than standard bars. But how much more? And I've got to believe there's a better way to do it. Why not a flex stem?

Canyon claims that the purpose of the Hoverbar is to maintain stiffness at the drops, for control on steep descents. But let's compare this to MTBs - particularly downhill racing MTBs . Even though the whole front of the bike is suspended through the fork (with 6+" of front travel), there's still plenty of stiffness at the ends of the handlebars to maintain control on steeper and gnarlier drop-offs than this Canyon is likely to see.

[Mark McM]

Why connect the bars together on the top then?

I would guess it is so that the bar flexes in unison, rather than having two halves that flex independently. I've ridden the Scott Drop In bars (pictured earlier in this thread), and it was disconcerting when the two sides flexed independently.

[benb]

The idea is that all the components between the frame and hands flex (stem, handlebars), and the longer the load path, the more flex there is. On a traditional bar, the drops flex more than the bar tops, because the drops have a longer load path (lever arm). On the Hoverbar, when the hands are the bar top, the load path goes from the stem through the front cross bar to the curves, then up the curves, and finally across the tops. A much longer load path than at the bar tops of traditional bars, so 'give' here is a sum of all the deflections along the load path. The thin center section of the tops adds a kind of 'hinge', furthering decrease the stiffness of the tops.

I have no doubt that these bars have more 'give' than standard bars. But how much more? And I've got to believe there's a better way to do it. Why not a flex stem?

Canyon claims that the purpose of the Hoverbar is to maintain stiffness at the drops, for control on steep descents. But let's compare this to MTBs - particularly downhill racing MTBs . Even though the whole front of the bike is suspended through the fork (with 6+" of front travel), there's still plenty of stiffness at the ends of the handlebars to maintain control on steeper and gnarlier drop-offs than this Canyon is likely to see.

That makes sense to me if you're riding on the bar tops on the upper bar I guess, but not necessarily if you're riding on the hoods or in the drops where I'd kind of expect the extra upper bar to actually reduce flex.

I'm not sure I want to be on the tops when the going gets rough and/or I need to make sure I maintain maximum control. Hard to say though, sometimes sitting up feels good on rough terrain, other times it feels harder to control and feels like it transfers more shock to your spine/butt.

[dave thompson]

I found a good use for the bars...

[bicycletricycle]

I would guess it is so that the bar flexes in unison, rather than having two halves that flex independently. I've ridden the Scott Drop In bars (pictured earlier in this thread), and it was disconcerting when the two sides flexed independently.

I guess that makes sense, as much sense as the whole thing makes anyways.

maybe it is super great, I probably wont ever know though.

[zross312]

100% Agree. I'd be willing to bet that the Redshift (https://redshiftsports.com/shockstop-suspension-stem)stem with the elastomer inserts paired with a normal gravel bar would offer more "compliance" (hate that word), while also being lighter, offering more positional and accessory flexibility, and looking a whole lot less goofy.


...I've got to believe there's a better way to do it. Why not a flex stem?
.

[Mark McM]

That makes sense to me if you're riding on the bar tops on the upper bar I guess, but not necessarily if you're riding on the hoods or in the drops where I'd kind of expect the extra upper bar to actually reduce flex.

Well, the upper bar will act a little bit to keep hoods/drops from flexing independently, but the bar won't have any affect if the hoods/drops flex in unison. If the hoods/drops flex up and down in unison, the top bar just goes with them. In other words, the top would act analogously with an anti-sway bar on a car: The anti-sway bar prevents body roll by keeping the right and left suspension from acting independently, but if you drive over a speed bump, the anti-sway bar does nothing to prevent the right & left suspension from moving in unison.

I'm not sure I want to be on the tops when the going gets rough and/or I need to make sure I maintain maximum control. Hard to say though, sometimes sitting up feels good on rough terrain, other times it feels harder to control and feels like it transfers more shock to your spine/butt.

The only way the Hoverbar makes sense to me is that it reduces the bar flex when sprinting or riding out of the saddle (when you are pulling on the bars). But I agree that in those times you want suspension, you want it for all hand positions.

[Mark McM]

100% Agree. I'd be willing to bet that the Redshift (https://redshiftsports.com/shockstop-suspension-stem)stem with the elastomer inserts paired with a normal gravel bar would offer more "compliance" (hate that word), while also being lighter, offering more positional and accessory flexibility, and looking a whole lot less goofy.

One knock against suspension stems is that the stiffness varies with the stem length (longer stems flex more). But it looks like Canyon solved this problem by only providing one stem length!

[choke]

While something may make sense from an engineering standpoint it doesn't mean that it's a good idea in real life.

[Joel]

I'm not quite sure why, but this all just gives me a headache. I'm going for a ride.

On old bars made of steel...:eek:

[pdmtong]

I'm not violently against it. BUT like any bar/stem combo, its very limiting on fit and tilt and all the little adjustments that individualize the installation. I would like to try it and see...at least it doesn't add the weight that the Future Shock does on a Specialized.

As for the double idea, there is only one person who can pull that off. Ten points to anyone under thirty who knows who this is....

http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/profile_mojo_data/3/0/8/7/308722/pics/_c103039_image_0.jpg

[peanutgallery]

Can you imagine the design meetings where they came up with this tragedy? It would be bike geek comedy. Off to a roaring start in the US market:)

What about the tilt of the bar? Folks are particular about that

[Bob Ross]

As for the double idea, there is only one person who can pull that off.

Two:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_uSfjomtgdy4/TRQ7p_xR_0I/AAAAAAAAHow/D_SDbPe2euA/s1600/m4+john+mclaughlin+double_neck+2.jpg

But the <30-year-olds are still at a disadvantage.

[FlashUNC]

And anyone under 40 has em beat on two turntables and a microphone.

[mt2u77]

You guys are missing the obvious benefit-- more places to hang laundry. I just might be looking at my next trainer bike here. :)

[djg21]

That middle cross bar seems much like the Hooker Legal Speed aero bar:

https://www.pedalroom.com/p/hooker-elite-cat-1-18674_43.jpg

(There was another similar product, but I can't remember the name of it.)

As far as I know the Hooker Legal Speed bar is still legal for USCF racing, although I'm not sure how the UCI would look upon it.

From the photos of the Hover bar, what I'm wondering is how that crossbar affects hand position in the drops? Do your thumbs go above or below the bar? And what if you are using Campagnolo levers - does the cross bar get in the way of moving your thumb to the upshift lever/button?

BreakawayBar. We just went through this exercise in another thread!:)

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=216698&highlight=Drop+ins

[Cicli]

I'm not violently against it. BUT like any bar/stem combo, its very limiting on fit and tilt and all the little adjustments that individualize the installation. I would like to try it and see...at least it doesn't add the weight that the Future Shock does on a Specialized.

As for the double idea, there is only one person who can pull that off. Ten points to anyone under thirty who knows who this is....

http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/profile_mojo_data/3/0/8/7/308722/pics/_c103039_image_0.jpg

Page was/is awesome. :banana:
What did I win?

[Cicli]

Two:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_uSfjomtgdy4/TRQ7p_xR_0I/AAAAAAAAHow/D_SDbPe2euA/s1600/m4+john+mclaughlin+double_neck+2.jpg

But the <30-year-olds are still at a disadvantage.

Rex B.?

[pdmtong]

Page was/is awesome. :banana:
What did I win?

"Check out the big brain on Brad Cicli!"

I decided instead of ten points, your prize is another time warp. More if you can name la pelicula.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-XIzKfL-Sysc/TXOqhXsnz_I/AAAAAAAAAMw/vdsW3JM02QY/s1600/No-Prize.jpg

[Cicli]

I decided instead of ten points, your prize is another time warp



:hello::banana:

[Peter B]

Rex B.?

Mahavishnu John McLaughlin

[raven]

I decided instead of ten points, your prize is another time warp.

How about we warp into Outer Sp"ACE"?

[pdmtong]

How about we warp into Outer Sp"ACE"?
forgot about that. like the bars, cannot be unseen

[Bostic]

Really?? No Xanadu love yet?

http://wallpaper.metalship.org/images/rush1.jpg

[AngryScientist]

saw this while scrolling through instagram this morning.

made me laugh.

innovation! copyright infringement!

https://instagram.fewr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/vp/9212e652d7ff76383767520fd8377b44/5B4A9A9D/t51.2885-15/e35/29089101_170107120305876_5943669120535887872_n.jpg

[Bob Ross]

Rex B.?
Mahavishnu John McLaughlin

You're both correct: The guitarist is John McLaughlin, the guitar was built by Rex Bogue.

[merckx]

You say Hoverbar, I say Bon Jon.

[David Tollefson]

Really?? No Xanadu love yet?

http://wallpaper.metalship.org/images/rush1.jpg

Ya beat me to it.
https://www.premierguitar.com/Stream/StreamImage.aspx?Image_ID=B472E0DF-D4FC-4ED3-B4AA-BC35461718DD&Image_Type=image

[David Tollefson]

But if ya really gotta...
http://cdo.seymourduncan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/rick-neilson-5-neck.jpg

[fignon's barber]

I went to the Canyon site: $2899 for the Ultegra CF SL version. They have a 30 day return policy, return used bike for full store credit. Anyone want to test one for us?

[Tony Edwards]

I went to the Canyon site: $2899 for the Ultegra CF SL version. They have a 30 day return policy, return used bike for full store credit. Anyone want to test one for us?

Wow - that is aggressive pricing for a full Ultegra bike. The Di2 bike is only $3,599, less than many mechanical Ultegra bikes.

[wildboar]

Finally got enough room on these bars to fit all my lights!

[zross312]

Fair point. I will say that, while I've never tried one myself, the Redshift system (supposedly) overcomes this by having 5 elastomer inserts for the stem, each with different firmness. So, in theory, you can tune any length stem to your desired flex characteristics fairly painlesly. Sounds a little iffy, but the reviews (http://www.gravelcyclist.com/bicycle-tech/review-redshift-sports-shockstop-suspension-stem-minimize-bumps/)were pretty positive (http://ridinggravel.com/reviews-2/redshift-sports-shockstop-stem-getting-rolling/).

One knock against suspension stems is that the stiffness varies with the stem length (longer stems flex more). But it looks like Canyon solved this problem by only providing one stem length!

[benb]

Wow - that is aggressive pricing for a full Ultegra bike. The Di2 bike is only $3,599, less than many mechanical Ultegra bikes.

Isn't this just because they sell direct? It's a business model that cuts out QBP and the likes and the local dealer so they certainly ought to be able to cut the price a lot!

[Tony Edwards]

Isn't this just because they sell direct? It's a business model that cuts out QBP and the likes and the local dealer so they certainly ought to be able to cut the price a lot!

True, but it still seems like a lot of value. I haven't had occasion to previously shop the Canyon line, so hadn't realized just how much cheaper they are compared to their competition. It makes me wish they had a more conventional gravel bike, because I have deep misgivings about the Hoverbar system.

[fignon's barber]

Here's a good review of the Grail. Looks like they will be bringing out an aluminum version with conventional handlebars:

http://granfondo-cycling.com/first-review-canyon-grail-cf/

[newellbt]

I really look forward to a test ride!!! :banana:

[fignon's barber]

I really look forward to a test ride!!! :banana:


Called Canyon today to ask a few questions. Credit card in hand. I was 50/50 on trying one. Learned there is no way retrofit another bar should the Hoverbar not work out. Card slid back into pocket.

[AZR3]

I love the look of the bike.....other than the bars. I wonder if sales aren’t what Canyon excepted that they will offer the Grail with a traditional bar setup?

[pdmtong]

Called Canyon today to ask a few questions. Credit card in hand. I was 50/50 on trying one. Learned there is no way retrofit another bar should the Hoverbar not work out. Card slid back into pocket.
I am not surprised by this...they designed the bike for that bar, so, the person wanting that bike has to take the package..bar and all.

the bigger "issue:" to me is the buyer is signing up for a fixed stem length rise and bar angle =without ne in front of me just no idea if that would work for me.

[bfd]

I am not surprised by this...they designed the bike for that bar, so, the person wanting that bike has to take the package..bar and all.

the bigger "issue:" to me is the buyer is signing up for a fixed stem length rise and bar angle =without ne in front of me just no idea if that would work for me.

I agree. I find the lack of ability to swap out stem/bars to fit you is a bit troubling. But, Canyon prices aren't that bad. I have a friend interested in their Endurance CF SLX:

https://www.canyon.com/en-us/road/endurace/endurace-cf-slx-disc-9-0-sl

You get a nice carbon bike (made by Giant) that comes with Sram etap and disc brakes. At $6500, it actually is not a bad deal. At that price, if you need a different stem or handlebar, well it probably wouldn't be more than a few hundred to change it? I guess that is how Canyon save money, by making you pay for any changes.

Of course, if you the bar and stem the bike comes with fits, then you score!

Good Luck!

[pdmtong]

I agree. I find the lack of ability to swap out stem/bars to fit you is a bit troubling. But, Canyon prices aren't that bad. I have a friend interested in their Endurance CF SLX:

https://www.canyon.com/en-us/road/endurace/endurace-cf-slx-disc-9-0-sl

You get a nice carbon bike (made by Giant) that comes with Sram etap and disc brakes. At $6500, it actually is not a bad deal. At that price, if you need a different stem or handlebar, well it probably wouldn't be more than a few hundred to change it? I guess that is how Canyon save money, by making you pay for any changes.

Of course, if you the bar and stem the bike comes with fits, then you score!

Good Luck!

That is the problem. Friend of mine looked at that exact model. However eTT 55.3 or 56.8 and you get a [insert drum roll] 100 stem? thats waaaay too short for a large population. and I dare say will the frame really ride that well with a stem that short?

Now I have to go back to canyon and pay for another bar/stem unit. which would be ok if they took back the stock and gave me a credit....but, they do not.

[pdmtong]

I put my hands on this today.
Feels pretty good.

BUT

in order to be in the drops and be able to grab the brake lever you need to hook your thumb over the lower "bar"

I am sure I could learn that grab motion but it was really awkward since different from the norm

[Lanternrouge]

Now I have to go back to canyon and pay for another bar/stem unit. which would be ok if they took back the stock and gave me a credit....but, they do not.

I have heard that they now do that, or at least did with someone I know. It may be that he got special treatment.

[oldpotatoe]

I put my hands on this today.
Feels pretty good.

BUT

in order to be in the drops and be able to grab the brake lever you need to hook your thumb over the lower "bar"

I am sure I could learn that grab motion but it was really awkward since different from the norm

This is the third example of 'putting your hands on this today'..also Silca cages and 12s Campag..where are you getting to see all this new stuff? SF area...Above category?

[fignon's barber]

BUT

in order to be in the drops and be able to grab the brake lever you need to hook your thumb over the lower "bar"



.....and if you are in that braking position and should happen to hit a large bump or rock, that "snappy" feeling will be that of your thumb breaking.
Too many negatives with this design. It's supposed to be a handlebar. After considering this, I just ordered an Orbea Terra. Ultegra equipped, custom paint, a bit over $3k complete.

[Bentley]

This is the third example of 'putting your hands on this today'..also Silca cages and 12s Campag..where are you getting to see all this new stuff? SF area...Above category?

I'd be surprised. I went by there last Monday and it was closed and they had exactly 3 bikes, I believe a Merckyx Corsa, a Bianchi, and a Centurion. I goofed and should have stopped by Bicycle Odyssey.

[Bostic]

This is the third example of 'putting your hands on this today'..also Silca cages and 12s Campag..where are you getting to see all this new stuff? SF area...Above category?

I’m guessing the Sea Otter bike festival and races down in Monterey, CA where new gizmos are often on display there.

[livingminimal]

This is the third example of 'putting your hands on this today'..also Silca cages and 12s Campag..where are you getting to see all this new stuff? SF area...Above category?

It's Sea Otter time, OP.

[pdmtong]

It's Sea Otter time, OP.

Chicken dinner

[pdmtong]

.....and if you are in that braking position and should happen to hit a large bump or rock, that "snappy" feeling will be that of your thumb breaking.
Too many negatives with this design. It's supposed to be a handlebar. After considering this, I just ordered an Orbea Terra. Ultegra equipped, custom paint, a bit over $3k complete.

this thumb hook aspect was not obvious (at least to me) until I put my hand on the bar.

so you have the "thumb hooked over the hover bar to brake" position, then the rearward most "hand at the end of the bar near the plug" position but you lose the intermediate position between them since that's where the lower bar is attached to the bend.

[livingminimal]

Solution in search of a problem that creates more problems.

I appreciate innovation, but this aint it. Could be a catalyst to other interesting things though.

[pdmtong]

Solution in search of a problem that creates more problems.

I appreciate innovation, but this aint it. Could be a catalyst to other interesting things though.

I like innovation too but the downsides of this design (fit, function, resale) far out weigh the upsides for me.

[David Kirk]

Does anyone know how the brake levers are installed above the lower wing? It would see that you could not slide them up past the lower thing to get them in the right place.

Obviously it can be done - I just don't know how.

dave

[cp43]

Does anyone know how the brake levers are installed above the lower wing? It would see that you could not slide them up past the lower thing to get them in the right place.

Obviously it can be done - I just don't know how.

dave

(Disclaimer, I think I read this here, or across the hall, I don't remember the source)

The bar includes a captive threaded insert. So, you don't use the band part that comes with the levers, you just thread the bolt in the lever into the captive insert.

[ptourkin]

Does anyone know how the brake levers are installed above the lower wing? It would see that you could not slide them up past the lower thing to get them in the right place.

Obviously it can be done - I just don't know how.

dave

It comes with clamps already installed.

"Mounting levers to the bars is achieved via the preinstalled clamps. There’s still plenty of adjustment, so finding the right lever hood angle shouldn’t be a problem. Installing all major manufactures offerings from Shimano, Campagnolo and SRAM are all compatible. '

[livingminimal]

after hearing more about people's experience on this bike, I am increasingly interested in trying it myself. I think a friend of mine may order one, but itll be way too small.

[Burnette]

I would like to give it a try. A video about the Hoverbar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE3Yg7Zkhv4