Shoes for Eroica

[cgolvin]

My search on this topic only returned some glancing references.

I still have my old Detto Pietros and worn cleats so am set, but I'm trying to figure out a solution for my brother. I've considered several possibilities:

1. Try to find old shoes & cleats, re-fit;
2. Remove cleats from modern shoes, ride sans cleats;
3. Remove cleats from modern shoes, attempt to retrofit old style cleats (probably need screws rather than nails);
4. <insert suggestion here>

I'm pretty sure others have encountered and overcome this problem (looking at you, beeatnik). Recommendations? In particular, if #1's the call, where to source other than eBay?

thanks

[dancinkozmo]

http://www.yellowjersey.org/tocleat.html

[FlashUNC]

http://www.yellowjersey.org/tocleat.html

Glad to see they adhered to the Eroica spirit even in the website design, straight from 1995.

[azrider]

even in the website design, straight from 1995.

:hello::hello:

[charliedid]

Glad to see they adhered to the Eroica spirit even in the website design, straight from 1995.

You should see the shop. Especially the one before they moved a few years ago, but still.

That's Andy the owner. Fascinating guy...all dressed up for work at ye olde bike shoppe.

Shop pic from 1972

[Spaghetti Legs]

I'm riding my first Eroica in Cali this April. I needed a new set of MTB shoes anyway so I got the brown leather Giro Republic LX. They are on sale for $94 at several places and are very comfy. I will leave my Crank Bros cleats on and ride as is or remove them and put some cleat bolts in to keep from getting gunked up.Some people ride regular shoes like the the Adidas Samba soccer shoes.

Edit: The blocks along the sole are removable/replaceable if the interfere with pedal entry and exit.

[OperaLover]

Vittoria 76 and they have clip pedal cleats. Unfortunately, sold separately. I called Vittoria USA for a pair.

[Tickdoc]

from a friend:

https://d2plslj6xljffa.cloudfront.net/imgs/products/px/950x600_constWH/SHHOLCA_P1.jpg?v=b

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/SHHOLCA/holdsworth-campione-classic-leather-road-cycle-shoe

[charliedid]

from a friend:

https://d2plslj6xljffa.cloudfront.net/imgs/products/px/950x600_constWH/SHHOLCA_P1.jpg?v=b

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/SHHOLCA/holdsworth-campione-classic-leather-road-cycle-shoe

I thought you could not ride clipless pedals? Has that changed?

Those appear to be 3 bolt.

Nice looking though :-)

[choke]

I would skip the cleats and use something like a touring shoe. If you have to walk some of the hills - which is a good possibility - your feet will be a lot happier.

Vittoria makes the 1976 in a SPD version and that's what I have used. I don't feel that I give up much by not having an old style cleat, though I don't tighten the straps down either.

[Kontact]

How about taking old Look cleats, turning them around backwards so you only have the two bolts, and then slotting it though the third bolt area to form a cleat?

[charliedid]

If I were to do this, which is not likely but it seems more fun the more I think about it.

1) All out old school shoes (and first shoes I ever owned). Adidas Merckx
2) Comfy walkable touring from Beta
3) New school knock off from Chrome

[cgolvin]

Vittoria 76 and they have clip pedal cleats. Unfortunately, sold separately. I called Vittoria USA for a pair.

Thanks, in fact my brother has 76's (though the version with a carbon sole), will call Vittoria to inquire.

[Tickdoc]

I thought you could not ride clipless pedals? Has that changed?

Those appear to be 3 bolt.

Nice looking though :-)

You cannot in most cases, but you don’t have to run these clipless just because the holes are there.

[charliedid]

You cannot in most cases, but you don’t have to run these clipless just because the holes are there.

I guess that's true. You could use those slotted cleats that use the back bolts...

Cheers

[Tickdoc]

I guess that's true. You could use those slotted cleats that use the back bolts...

Cheers

That’s how my first road shoes were....worked like a charm.

Want to see something sad? Here’s my first road shoe now displayed in a cycling museum. Dayum.

(Not my shoe, per se , but the same model)

http://classiccycleus.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Sidis-1984.jpg

[chrismoustache]

I have Chrome Truks that I wear to commute and around the office. I'll wear them on longer rides with flats or toe-clips and they feel great as well.

Absolute best shoes I've had for riding were an old pair of lace-up Cannondale touring sneakers. Stiff sole, good ventilation, low profile and looked good with just about everything.

[charliedid]

That’s how my first road shoes were....worked like a charm.

Want to see something sad? Here’s my first road shoe now displayed in a cycling museum. Dayum.

(Not my shoe, per se , but the same model)

http://classiccycleus.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Sidis-1984.jpg

It's tough getting old! ;-)

Here is what Mine looked like. I completely guessed at the position and took them to a cobbler who tacked them in. I had to go back due to a tack or two poking through! Oh boy...

[11.4]

Those were the days.

MKS, among others, makes 3-hole Look style cleats that simply have a slot in them for traditional cage pedals. These are still required for keirin racing in Japan and are probably the best made ones out there. .

Here's an example:

https://www.euroasiaimports.com/productcart/pc/MKS-c2214.htm

Shimano made the PD64 cleats for the 7400 pedals and while they're a bit bulky, they have a nice deep slot and they fit Look 3-hole drilling. The only drawback with these cleats is that the slot is at the very back end of the cleat, so walking on it a little can literally cause the plastic to bend and close up on you. A screwdriver fixes that right away, but you don't necessarily want to be hassling with your cleats' not engaging with the pedals properly. You can find them regularly on eBay.

Yoshida makes a slotted cleat that's deep, reliable, and uses just the two rear holes in a Look setup. Nice cleats.

https://www.euroasiaimports.com/productcart/pc/Yoshida-c2215.htm

If you're using traditional nail-on cleats, a few comments for those who weren't so lucky as to use them when they were the only option around:

1. The TA cleats (both the long road and the short criterium cleat, which is shown just above) were nice and easy to install, but the slot is shallow and not particularly wide. That gives you the effect of some float, plus the tendency to pop out unexpectedly.

2. On that subject, slotted cleats are generally designed to hold your foot rigidly. If you're used to float, don't expect it in slotted cleats. Some slotted cleats, like the Dura Ace cleat made for the 7400 pedals, have a very thin slot and are absolutely float-free.

3. Fastening cleats is the hard part. Generally, after fixing many many cleats for myself and others, I got to where I'd use four or six brads to tack the cleat in place and check fit compared to the prior installation. Even go for a short ride to see how it feels, bearing in mind that the cleat can pull out of the shoe if you torque it too much. Then come home and nail the puppy down hard. When you use nails, you're supposed to use long tapered nails that go all the way through the shoe plus some and then get turned by a shoemaker's anvil or stake and reverse course to point back into the shoe. This makes them very resistant to pulling out, but you do need the stake to install them properly (or at least realize how it's done so you can imitate the process). Modern cobblers will use straight short brads that don't hold well, since they usually don't understand how the originals were installed.

With short cleats like Pavarins or early Duegis, nails were the only way. But some cleats gave you enough real estate to use other fixing methods. With the TA road cleats in particular, you could drill out four or six holes a bit extra, fit the cleat to the sole, and install using pop rivets with thin backing washers on the inside. Epoxies usually tear loose, but can help minimize squeaking in conjunction with nails or other hardware. Sheet metal screws are another option, but while I found them better than straight-nailed cleats, they weren't anywhere near as strong as nailing properly with a cobbler's stake as mentioned above.

Another option you can pursue is to make your own cleats. It isn't really hard, and a small rectangular slab of ultra-HDPE from McMaster turned out dozens of cleats. A piece of 1/2 x 3 x 48 inch fiber reinforced UHDPE is easy to work with woodworking tools. Just rip a mortise the length of the strip to make a cleat slot, then use a router and a basic jig to drill slots for two screws (a la the Yoshida cleats above). Cut the strip apart into individual cleats last of all, because they're easier to shape accurately while still in a strip. Use a Dremel or just a big rasp to file the edges down and smooth out the final shapes. You can do a very elegant job and shape the cleats to fit your pedal cage perfectly. We made them to fit old Campy 1038 pedals, with the front of the cleat positioned so it just jammed into the pedal cage and positioned the cleat perfectly to drop the slot down right over the back rail of the cage.

[Hindmost]

Here is what Mine looked like. I completely guessed at the position and took them to a cobbler who tacked them in...

BITD one technique for positioning the cleats was to ride without the cleats mounted some reasonably short distance and see where the marks were made on the soles of the shoes.

[Kontact]

2. On that subject, slotted cleats are generally designed to hold your foot rigidly. If you're used to float, don't expect it in slotted cleats. Some slotted cleats, like the Dura Ace cleat made for the 7400 pedals, have a very thin slot and are absolutely float-free.

There used to be cleats with bow tie shaped slots that allowed float. It would be easy to modify existing cleats to do the same.

[cgolvin]

BITD one technique for positioning the cleats was to ride without the cleats mounted some reasonably short distance and see where the marks were made on the soles of the shoes.

Yep, that's the method that I used. Given that I can still use those shoes 40 years later without issue I'd say it works pretty well.

[ripvanrando]

Red Stilettos?

[charliedid]

BITD one technique for positioning the cleats was to ride without the cleats mounted some reasonably short distance and see where the marks were made on the soles of the shoes.

It's funny, I remembered exactly that after I posted this. i don't recall if I did it the first time or if I got schooled and did that the second time. Man, I thought I was so GD cool.

[zennmotion]

I'm riding my first Eroica in Cali this April. I needed a new set of MTB shoes anyway so I got the brown leather Giro Republic LX. They are on sale for $94 at several places and are very comfy. I will leave my Crank Bros cleats on and ride as is or remove them and put some cleat bolts in to keep from getting gunked up.Some people ride regular shoes like the the Adidas Samba soccer shoes.

Edit: The blocks along the sole are removable/replaceable if the interfere with pedal entry and exit.

I have a pair of Giro Territory's that use the same sole blocks. In my experience they don't hold up very well to any significant walking on gravel/rough terrain, I had several break apart after 2 rides that included steep uphill gravel hike-a-bike, less than 2 miles total walking (real MTB shoes would have been better but still...) And the replacements are expensive. And from what I've seen of the eroica route you can plan on some walking. I would go with shoes that can take some walking or you don't mind trashing, I'm not sure a new pair of Republics would be my choice. Old ones maybe... I'm doing the ride for the first time this year, but I still have a pair of cleated shoes from back in the day, I plan to give them a proper burial after the ride, perhaps at sea.

[zennmotion]

Those were the days.

MKS, among others, makes 3-hole Look style cleats that simply have a slot in them for traditional cage pedals. These are still required for keirin racing in Japan and are probably the best made ones out there. .

Here's an example:

https://www.euroasiaimports.com/productcart/pc/MKS-c2214.htm

Shimano made the PD64 cleats for the 7400 pedals and while they're a bit bulky, they have a nice deep slot and they fit Look 3-hole drilling. The only drawback with these cleats is that the slot is at the very back end of the cleat, so walking on it a little can literally cause the plastic to bend and close up on you. A screwdriver fixes that right away, but you don't necessarily want to be hassling with your cleats' not engaging with the pedals properly. You can find them regularly on eBay.

Yoshida makes a slotted cleat that's deep, reliable, and uses just the two rear holes in a Look setup. Nice cleats.

https://www.euroasiaimports.com/productcart/pc/Yoshida-c2215.htm

If you're using traditional nail-on cleats, a few comments for those who weren't so lucky as to use them when they were the only option around:

1. The TA cleats (both the long road and the short criterium cleat, which is shown just above) were nice and easy to install, but the slot is shallow and not particularly wide. That gives you the effect of some float, plus the tendency to pop out unexpectedly.

2. On that subject, slotted cleats are generally designed to hold your foot rigidly. If you're used to float, don't expect it in slotted cleats. Some slotted cleats, like the Dura Ace cleat made for the 7400 pedals, have a very thin slot and are absolutely float-free.

3. Fastening cleats is the hard part. Generally, after fixing many many cleats for myself and others, I got to where I'd use four or six brads to tack the cleat in place and check fit compared to the prior installation. Even go for a short ride to see how it feels, bearing in mind that the cleat can pull out of the shoe if you torque it too much. Then come home and nail the puppy down hard. When you use nails, you're supposed to use long tapered nails that go all the way through the shoe plus some and then get turned by a shoemaker's anvil or stake and reverse course to point back into the shoe. This makes them very resistant to pulling out, but you do need the stake to install them properly (or at least realize how it's done so you can imitate the process). Modern cobblers will use straight short brads that don't hold well, since they usually don't understand how the originals were installed.

With short cleats like Pavarins or early Duegis, nails were the only way. But some cleats gave you enough real estate to use other fixing methods. With the TA road cleats in particular, you could drill out four or six holes a bit extra, fit the cleat to the sole, and install using pop rivets with thin backing washers on the inside. Epoxies usually tear loose, but can help minimize squeaking in conjunction with nails or other hardware. Sheet metal screws are another option, but while I found them better than straight-nailed cleats, they weren't anywhere near as strong as nailing properly with a cobbler's stake as mentioned above.

Another option you can pursue is to make your own cleats. It isn't really hard, and a small rectangular slab of ultra-HDPE from McMaster turned out dozens of cleats. A piece of 1/2 x 3 x 48 inch fiber reinforced UHDPE is easy to work with woodworking tools. Just rip a mortise the length of the strip to make a cleat slot, then use a router and a basic jig to drill slots for two screws (a la the Yoshida cleats above). Cut the strip apart into individual cleats last of all, because they're easier to shape accurately while still in a strip. Use a Dremel or just a big rasp to file the edges down and smooth out the final shapes. You can do a very elegant job and shape the cleats to fit your pedal cage perfectly. We made them to fit old Campy 1038 pedals, with the front of the cleat positioned so it just jammed into the pedal cage and positioned the cleat perfectly to drop the slot down right over the back rail of the cage.

Oh for Dog's sake, this is a lot of arcane info, interesting but it all adds up to a lot of fuss- just use some trainers- it's one ride, there's significant amounts of walking unless you're using modern gears. And are you really likely to use toe clips between eroica rides?

[charliedid]

Oh for Dog's sake, this is a lot of arcane info, interesting but it all adds up to a lot of fuss- just use some trainers- it's one ride, there's significant amounts of walking unless you're using modern gears. And are you really likely to use toe clips between eroica rides?

What? I thought hairshirt cycling was all about the fuss. That's the point...