Alternatives to Open UPPER Gravel bike?

[toronto-rider]

I am looking for a gravel bike that can handle both 40c 700 tires and 2.1 650 tire.
I plan to sell my CX bike and use this for CX racing as well as gravel rides.
The only issue I have with the Open is the price. $3200 for the frame.

I am not seeing many alternatives to a Carbon “do all bike”
There is the Norco Search XR, ok but I dont like the looks.

The one that looks great is the Ibis Hakka MX. The issue with that is that it uses post mount front brakes and limited fenders for the rear. Also the sizing is a bit off for me, I am closer to a 56cm frame, and looks like I would go with the 58 on this bike.

Are there others that I am missing?I want it to be carbon.

Anyone want to sell me there OPen frame?

[FlashUNC]

Giant TCX Advanced Pro might be what scratches your itch.

[adub]

Stigmata

[roguedog]

haven't ridden one but have also been looking and really like the trail donkey 2.1 (http://www.rodeo-labs.com/product/ridgerodeo/)

this is the one that kinda seems like the bike i want but i can't decide between carbon or something custom in ti. only reason i'm holding back.. is material decision and if i ought to spend my pennies on a custom solution instead.

[dem]

If you're feeling experimental, the generic china version of the 3T exploro looks interesting.

Sold under various open mould flavors:
Workswell WCB-R-125/Tideace FM-CX072/GF-001/ST-F119/PRO-R8014

I'm kinda tempted.

[Lovetoclimb]

haven't ridden one but have also been looking and really like the trail donkey 2.1 (http://www.rodeo-labs.com/product/ridgerodeo/)

this is the one that kinda seems like the bike i want but i can't decide between carbon or something custom in ti. only reason i'm holding back.. is material decision and if i ought to spend my pennies on a custom solution instead.

Despite the name having "2.1" in it, I do not believe their frames fit a 2.1" tire yet. I have traded email traffic with them on this subject. It is the main reason I do not already own one :(

[Gat64]

There are some deals out there for the Classic Up frame lately. I was able to find one myself for around $2000. The classic uses the post mount brakes rather than the newer flat mount (used on the Upper).

[mtb_frk]

I’m having the same debate as you. For $2500 there are a lot of options out there from custom builders for steel or Ti.

haven't ridden one but have also been looking and really like the trail donkey 2.1 (http://www.rodeo-labs.com/product/ridgerodeo/)

this is the one that kinda seems like the bike i want but i can't decide between carbon or something custom in ti. only reason i'm holding back.. is material decision and if i ought to spend my pennies on a custom solution instead.

[ptourkin]

I love my Trail Donkey (27.5 x 47s on wide rims clear and are plenty big) but you should also take a look at the new Ibis Hakka MX. Also, I rode the Open and it is incredible. The new Yeti color is rad.

http://theradavist.com/2017/11/gettin-dirty-with-the-new-ibis-hakka-mx/#1

Edit - you know about the Hakka. Sorry. I think it's a great bike but we don't need fenders down here.

[bigbill]

Nice bike made in Austin, TX. Significant tire clearance for both 700 and 650. They're big into the gravel bike scene in Texas.

https://www.chumbausa.com/terlingua-700c-650bplus/

[beamin]

I'm in the same boat, but not limiting the search to carbon. I know you want carbon, but in case other folks are open to any material and curious about other options, here are some nice ones below :)

Not all these options can clear a 2.1". Most are in the 650Bx42 or x48 range.

Discs make swapping from 700c to 650b easy, but a long reach rim brake like a Grand Cru will do the trick as well.

On the more road geo end: Endpoint Coffee Grinder, Spooky's Dune, All-City Mr. Pink. Put some 42mm baby shoe pass tires on and have a blast with a road bike.

Somewhere in the middle: Vassago DonnyBrook, Ren's Waypoint, Black Mountain's road disc coming out in June. More clearance, longer chain stays.

Beefier end: CHUMBA's Terlingua, Mason Bokeh, All-City's Cosmic Stallion, Gunnar Hyper XX. The good people at Seven make a steel Honey Allroads as well.

[p nut]

DB Haanjo

https://www.diamondback.com/haanjo

[Jaybee]

DB Haanjo

https://www.diamondback.com/haanjo

If it's got to be carbon, cheap and fit 2.1s, then this is the answer.

[Hakkalugi]

I did custom titanium from Waltly, my frame and fork clear 700x50. Price was awesome, and the quality is excellent.

[bobswire]

This is the carbon version but it takes 27.5 wheels. https://www.diamondback.com/haanjo-exp-carbon

[mistermo]

I had the same debate as you. I ended up with a Ibis Hakka MX. I really didn't care that the ENVE has post mount, but cared enough to order the Whisky 7, with flat mount. I figure I can sell the ENVE and break even, if I want that option.

The OPEN is just too expensive, though it's cool. I also looked at Chebaccos, and Stigmatas, and couldn't get comfortable with the Norco, though it looks good on paper. I've had very good luck with Hakkalugis in the past and thought I should keep the string alive.

[sandyrs]

This when it comes out: https://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/news/article/bombtrack-hook-ext-c-first-look-51584/

[ptourkin]

This when it comes out: https://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/news/article/bombtrack-hook-ext-c-first-look-51584/

Love the fork etc... but the geometry for some sizes is bizarre, if correct. Is the reach on the XS really more than the S and M? Maybe a quirk I don't understand but I don't understand...

[dieonthishill]

The Open UP is a great alternative to the Open Upper. :cool:

[cinco]

Clearance enough for that on my Van Dessel Full Tilt Boogie https://www.vandesselcycles.com/product/full-tilt-boogie/
It's a super fun bike.
Seems to make sense to go with a CX bike, with higher BB, if alternating between those tires. The 2.1x650 will be a bit smaller dia than 40 x 700.

Andy in Houston

[R3awak3n]

I would just go with the hakka, the post mount is no big deal at all, actually its better, you can easily run a 180mm rotor if you want.

[sandyrs]

Love the fork etc... but the geometry for some sizes is bizarre, if correct. Is the reach on the XS really more than the S and M? Maybe a quirk I don't understand but I don't understand...

I hadn't actually looked at the geo at all because I'm not in the market for a new bike any time soon but that's weird. I've seen that on other bikes, too- the XS has a shorter TT than the S, but also a steeper STA so the reach ends up longer. Always struck me as extremely amateurish.

[bicycletricycle]

all city gorilla monsoon?

[blantonator]

You could buy mine.

https://i.imgur.com/IeHQz9A.jpg


https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=217745

[ptourkin]

You could buy mine.

https://i.imgur.com/IeHQz9A.jpg


https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=217745

Oh man, that paint and the tanwalls are perfect for each other.

[yinzerniner]

I'd add the Niner RLT RDO. Niner says 40c would fit, and supposedly the new ride is super plush.

Jenson USA has a pretty good deal on them right now....

http://www.jensonusa.com/Niner-RLT-9-RDO-3-Star-Rival-Bike

[R3awak3n]

all city gorilla monsoon?

I'd add the Niner RLT RDO. Niner says 40c would fit, and supposedly the new ride is super plush.

Jenson USA has a pretty good deal on them right now....

http://www.jensonusa.com/Niner-RLT-9-RDO-3-Star-Rival-Bike

p sure he wants carbon/

[SpeedyChix]

You could buy mine.

https://i.imgur.com/IeHQz9A.jpg


https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=217745

If this fits you, snag it. I did a couple of CX races on mine (one on 2.1 27.5 and the other on 700cx). This bike fits your wheel/tire specs and has fender mounts. There’s a removable bridge for the upper stay area It works great for internal Di2 as well. Hard to beat. Entire bike above for less than many carbon frames.

[rnhood]

If this fits you, snag it. I did a couple of CX races on mine (one on 2.1 27.5 and the other on 700cx). This bike fits your wheel/tire specs and has fender mounts. There’s a removable bridge for the upper stay area It works great for internal Di2 as well. Hard to beat. Entire bike above for less than many carbon frames.

I agree, it's a bonafide bargain if it fits. I mean, why pay more for a bike that will do less, and is much heavier?

[toronto-rider]

I had the same debate as you. I ended up with a Ibis Hakka MX. I really didn't care that the ENVE has post mount, but cared enough to order the Whisky 7, with flat mount. I figure I can sell the ENVE and break even, if I want that option.

The OPEN is just too expensive, though it's cool. I also looked at Chebaccos, and Stigmatas, and couldn't get comfortable with the Norco, though it looks good on paper. I've had very good luck with Hakkalugis in the past and thought I should keep the string alive.

What size did you get and what is your normal road bike size?
What wheels did you get the bike with?

[yinzerniner]

p sure he wants carbon/

Is the RLT RDO not carbon? Well, maybe some springs, screws, nuts, bolts and cables aren't but the frame seems like the black stuff to me...

[Jaybee]

It's my understanding that all the carbon Haanjo models from that year have the same frame. So if olive green isn't your thing (why not?) or you don't want the 3x9 with barends drivetrain, you can go with the Haanjo comp and get a 5800 drivetrain, 700c wheels and matte black. Just add 650b later.


At the risk of being a tire clearance truther, I've seen a few frames mentioned in here that I didn't think would take a 650b x 2.1. I know my friend is complaining that he can't fit Byways in his otherwise awesome Stigmata. Full Tilt Boogie, TCX Advanced? Great if true, I just haven't seen that before.

[mistermo]

What size did you get and what is your normal road bike size?
What wheels did you get the bike with?

I got the big one, with the 59c top tube. My normal road bike size also has TTs in the 58.5-59 range. I've got a couple sets of wheels that I'll initially use (Ritchey Zeta Disc & ENVE 4.5AR), then maybe look for something specific that'll wear 40c tires. I may try 650b's at some point, but with a big frame, I don't know that I need 'em.

Note: I haven't ridden this yet. It'll be finished Friday. SRAM Force1 build. One big advantage (in my book) of the Hakka MX is it's T47, threaded, BB.

[bicycletricycle]

p sure he wants carbon/

woops, should read whole post first I guess.

[SpeedyChix]

Have seen what seems like a high # of used Niner RLTs for sale. Is it the ride or other?

[DrSpoke]

Have you looked at the 3T Exploro - Vroomen designed both. One of our site sponsors, BikeTiresDirect, carries them and w/a cash discount. In addition, there is another 10% available in Gold Club points. Net = c. $2,500.

[toronto-rider]

Have you looked at the 3T Exploro - Vroomen designed both. One of our site sponsors, BikeTiresDirect, carries them and w/a cash discount. In addition, there is another 10% available in Gold Club points. Net = c. $2,500.

The group I do gravel rides with, 3 of them ride the 3T bike. It is a nice bike, but some have had issues with the seatpost design (they had one of the 1st year)
The main reason is the looks. If I am going to spend that much money on a frame it has to be attractive to me.

I think I am going to wait for a used one to come to market or just buy one new in the fall. Re Open upper.

[rnhood]

I just don't understand how one can call the Open or 3T bike a "do-it-all" bike when neither is set up for fenders or racks. They strike me for as gravel racing bikes, especially given the aero tubes on the 3T. I wouldn't have one, at half the bloated price. But we are all different, and have different preferences. I have a riding buddy that owns an Open, and he likes it, though doesn't ride it much. Its beautifully constructed, and no doubt is of very good quality. Just for me, the functionality is too limited.

I'd take a hard look at the new Trek Crosspoint. But I don't know if it will take 650 wheels, if that is important.

[mtb_frk]

Lots of good suggestions in this thread. I am looking to replace my wolverine with something a bit lighter, and thought I was set on 29” wheels but now I am thinking 650 might be a good way to go because there doesn’t seem to be a lot of frame choices that allow a 29x2” tire with fenders.

Any downside to 650 wheels vs 29? Less tire choices, less rim choices?

[roguedog]

I am in rnhood's camp.

Oh another one that's has been on my radar is Kelson's DNA quiver killer (https://www.kelsonbikes.com/) which I saw at .. I think the Sac NAHBS. Seems like a really nice bike if you want to stay in carbon realm and it can be custom.

[.RJ]

I'd take a hard look at the new Trek Crosspoint. But I don't know if it will take 650 wheels, if that is important.

Trek says no 650... but I've used 650 on both my Crux and Niner SIR 9 and neither bike has burst into flames.

BB drop is on the low side @ 7.6cm for a 54. I want to like this bike, but I worry that's too low? I also dont see a Sram 1x build kit available .... my team shop is a trek dealer, I wonder what my price would be on a frameset.

[d_douglas]

In terms of fitting 2.1 x 650b wheels, there's more to the geometry of a bike than being able to fit 40mm tires, right?

For example, if my Desalvo could barely fit 40mm tires (and was designed for 700c all the way) then 650b wide tires are likely not a reasonable option?



I too think the Ibis Hakka MX is a great looking bike, PM fork aside. I am sure they will change that soon due to customer input.

[Hank Scorpio]

For those who have friends with the UP did you hear of any frames cracking? The local shop to me had a few warranty frames one belonging to a super lightweight rider which was really surprising. They offered him the UPPER as a replacement. I haven’t seen him since he built it to get a ride report.

[Bonesbrigade]

I just don't understand how one can call the Open or 3T bike a "do-it-all" bike when neither is set up for fenders or racks. They strike me for as gravel racing bikes, especially given the aero tubes on the 3T. I wouldn't have one, at half the bloated price. But we are all different, and have different preferences. I have a riding buddy that owns an Open, and he likes it, though doesn't ride it much. Its beautifully constructed, and no doubt is of very good quality. Just for me, the functionality is too limited.

I'd take a hard look at the new Trek Crosspoint. But I don't know if it will take 650 wheels, if that is important.

For me, when I think about do-it-all bikes, I think of a bike that can handle a variety of surfaces and multiple riding disciplines. A bike setup with fenders and racks is whole other bike (to me)! A bike with fenders and racks is purely utilitarian - for getting around in the rain and carrying stuff.

You are right though - we all a different view on this!

Edit: To stay on topic, I think the IBIS is pretty rad. The PM front is no biggie. I actually prefer PM and you can always order one brake at a time with a different mount. Threaded BB is a requirement for this type of bike in my opinion - clearance checks the boxes too.

[Jaybee]

In terms of fitting 2.1 x 650b wheels, there's more to the geometry of a bike than being able to fit 40mm tires, right?

For example, if my Desalvo could barely fit 40mm tires (and was designed for 700c all the way) then 650b wide tires are likely not a reasonable option?



I too think the Ibis Hakka MX is a great looking bike, PM fork aside. I am sure they will change that soon due to customer input.

I have an aluminum cross bike that comfortably fits 42mm 700c Resolutes, but wont fit 50mm x 650b knobbies because the chainstay dimples are a little off for that wheel size.

Also consider that if the bb drop is designed for stability with 700 x 40 or tires in mind, it will be another ~0.5-1cm lower with a lower pressure 650b x 2.1 tire. If you are on a trail that demands 2.1" knobbies, then pedal strikes might be an issue. I think this is probably the case with the Trek Checkpoint. Clearance for 45s mean you can probably fit a nice fat 650b in there, but 7.6cm of BB drop mean you are really low.

[sparky33]

Trek says no 650... but I've used 650 on both my Crux and Niner SIR 9 and neither bike has burst into flames.

BB drop is on the low side @ 7.6cm for a 54. I want to like this bike, but I worry that's too low? I also dont see a Sram 1x build kit available .... my team shop is a trek dealer, I wonder what my price would be on a frameset.

at 7.6bb may be alright for very large 650b tires...650bx50 etc.
However, 650b fitment it really depends on the chainstay shape at the 650b radius. I would bet that the carbon chainstays are widened at the specific 700c radius, as was done with the Boone, leaving a narrower spot where a 650b tire would pass. This is the reason why you never see a Santa Cruz Stigmata or Trek Boone with a WTB Horizon.

In contrast, the Trek Crockett looks ideal for 650b conversion with the right amount of bb drop and confirmed chainstay clearance.

[mtb_frk]

In contrast, the Trek Crockett looks ideal for 650b conversion with the right amount of bb drop and confirmed chainstay clearance.

I would love to hear if anyone has tried this as I currently own a Crockett.