Eroica gear questions...

[mtechnica]

So there’s a good chance I will have an opportunity to do eroica nex year in California but there are a few things I’m wondering...

1.) The rules say it’s ok to change the gearing. What exactly does that mean? Can you throw on an 8 speed 11-28 cassette and chain with the rest of your 6 speed friction setup or is that not in the spirit of the rules?

2.) Brake levers have to be the cable out the top kind... what if your bike and group are 87/older and originally had aero levers? Do you seriously have to go change them for older ones that don’t match the group? I don’t understand the point of this, as all of these levers are awful anyway.

3.) which dura ace group was available in 1985?

Thanks for any insight.

[fiamme red]

I have a 14-28 6-speed freewheel on my vintage Univega. Why not go with a 13-28 6-speed freewheel? How much will you miss the 11t and 12t cogs for this one ride?

I'm pretty sure that Dura Ace 7400 was available in 1985. I do not know what year aero brake levers were introduced -- perhaps 1986? Just prior to 7400, there were Dura Ace AX and EX.

[choke]

You can change the gearing to whatever you want.....a cassette is fine.

Aero levers are now OK at Eroica CA. They started allowing them last year...or maybe this is the first year.

FWIW, I've been to every edition in CA and no one has ever checked my bike to see that it conforms to the rules.

[mhespenheide]

Eroica CA has an exemption for aero levers. I used them last year and absolutely no one hassled me.

Like @choke, I've never had someone official even briefly check out my bike at two of their events. That said, I think that -- given the clear expectations of the event -- it's honorable to stick to the intentions and spirit of the rules. For me, personally, I'm okay with throwing a triple and wide-range cassette and modern-ish mid-reach brakes on my 1991 (lugged-steel) Trek since I don't think I'm out of line with what might have been ridden in the mid-80's. You might decide otherwise.

[mtechnica]

Good info. 7400 is what I want so I think that’s what I’m gonna do!

[fiamme red]

If you want to know when a certain component or group was made, go to this great resource: http://www.velobase.com/default.aspx.

[oldpotatoe]

Eroica CA has an exemption for aero levers. I used them last year and absolutely no one hassled me.

Like @choke, I've never had someone official even briefly check out my bike at two of their events. That said, I think that -- given the clear expectations of the event -- it's honorable to stick to the intentions and spirit of the rules. For me, personally, I'm okay with throwing a triple and wide-range cassette and modern-ish mid-reach brakes on my 1991 (lugged-steel) Trek since I don't think I'm out of line with what might have been ridden in the mid-80's. You might decide otherwise.

This..there are no bike checkers that will toss you out if your bike isn't period proper..These things are supposed to be 'fun rides', no reason to get all agro about them, from the rider OR organizer perspective.

[jmoore]

You will also need some kickass leather cycling gloves. :)

[mtechnica]

I want to keep the bike period correct but the practicality of freewheels and cassettes make me want to go with 8 speed downtube shifters, since the 7400 group came in 8 speed I don’t think it’s a huge stretch but I don’t want to be accused of cheating if my group should have been 6 speed. I don’t intend to ride slowly either and these days I’ll be mad if I don’t have 39/28 and at least 8 speeds. On the other hand the point is to ride a vintage bike so 8 speed might be against the spirit of the rules. That said I’ll actually ride it outside of eroica if it’s 8 speed which makes wear items a non issue. It sounds like nobody really cares though?

[mtechnica]

I guess I don’t mean accused of cheating, I mean accused of being a wuss, lol.

[rccardr]

Nobody cares, from either a cheating or wuss perspective. Great group of people, very friendly and helpful, lots of very average type older bikes on the ride. Just as many decent but average Nishikis and Italvegas as Masi or Colnago.

Just set it up to ride how you want. Standard crankset and a 26 or smaller out back means most nmormal mortals will walk up the worst parts but get to chat with others along the way. Compact and a 28 means most people in decent shape can ride up most of the hills and/or walk at the very top. Old guys who want to ride and not walk come up with all sorts of vintage-y looking triples and big gears out back to keep going. It's all good.

Two years ago I rode with Andy Hampsten & he was running 8 speed Dura Ace. If he can, so can you!

[classtimesailer]

Rccardr has got it. Wouldn't it be fun if the rules required vintage chains? I luv that sound.

A fun part for me is trying to follow the old guys on Nuovo Record bikes with the 13/23 cogsets. I say be one of those guys. (I cheat with a 24).

[jtakeda]

You can find bigger range free wheels. I have a 13-30 7 speed on my traut’


That being said, cassette would be easier to find.

[choke]

Since you seem to be concerned about the gearing, consider this; Bianchi makes an 'Eroica' model which is "certified by the L'Eroica's commission to ride in all Eroica events". It has a 10sp 13-29 cassette and a 36/48 crank.

[El Chaba]

Rccardr has got it. Wouldn't it be fun if the rules required vintage chains? I luv that sound.

A fun part for me is trying to follow the old guys on Nuovo Record bikes with the 13/23 cogsets. I say be one of those guys. (I cheat with a 24).

There is nothing quite like the feeling of a Sedisport chain on a Maillard 700 freewheel while riding a good tempo on the flat in a big gear. To me, it's one of the great sensations of cycling.

[mhespenheide]

I guess I don’t mean accused of cheating, I mean accused of being a wuss, lol.

I've had one person in two years look askance at my gearing as "not too heroic". Everyone else has appreciated low gears. Some of the hills are quite steep, on dirt/gravel.

But then, I'm not trying to recreate a Italian bike racer from the 70's. I'm trying to recreate an American club rider from the 80's, which I think is well within the rules and spirit.

Ride the 8-speed cassette and enjoy the great terrain, roads, and support. It's a beautiful area.

(By the way, there's a boatload {pun intended!} of recreation of vintage jerseys on eBay and AliExpress, if you're looking for one. Search cycling jerseys for "retro" or "vintage" in either place)

[velomateo]

Last year I saw people using modern pedals and heard the click of an indexed shifter many times. I believe in prepping your bike in "the spirit' of the event, but if you're running a Dura Ace 7400 group - just use the aero levers it came with. I don't think an 8 speed cassette is a big deal either. Just enjoy the ride.

[palincss]

So there’s a good chance I will have an opportunity to do eroica nex year in California but there are a few things I’m wondering...

1.) The rules say it’s ok to change the gearing. What exactly does that mean? Can you throw on an 8 speed 11-28 cassette and chain with the rest of your 6 speed friction setup or is that not in the spirit of the rules?

2.) Brake levers have to be the cable out the top kind... what if your bike and group are 87/older and originally had aero levers? Do you seriously have to go change them for older ones that don’t match the group? I don’t understand the point of this, as all of these levers are awful anyway.


Current rules do allow aero levers.


c) we prefer the traditional brake lever setup on the bicycles, brake cables pass outside and over the handlebars (cables can pass inside the top tube of main frame), however, starting in 2017, aero brake levers without built in shifters will be allowed. -- https://www.eroicacalifornia.com/regulation


All they say about gears is this:


a) more recent bikes with gears and derailleurs, such as, but not limited to Simplex, Huret, Campagnolo, Zeus, Shimano, Suntour, etc. must have shift levers on the down tube of the frame; exceptions include pre-1980 non indexed bar-end gear shifters, Stem mounted friction shifters and rod/hand manual operated front derailleurs;
-- https://www.eroicacalifornia.com/regulation

[zennmotion]

It's your ride, so you can make it what you want. FWIW, you can also do the same route on a modern carbon sled guilt-free, Nova Eroica category (limited to 200 riders I believe). I'm planning to go for the first time this year (Cali and maybe UK in June or even an excuse to visit Italy in the Fall), building up an early 80s race bike replica of what I used to ride with my old 7400 group that I've had in a box from a bike that I swear I had in 1984, so I'm confused on the components marked 7400... For me, it's both fun and kind of stupid old man nostalgia that my wife rolls her eyes at. But I'd like to ride it in the original intended configuration, although stretching the gearing just a little as I don't think I every had a six speed 28t freewheel back in the day (found in the basement, I have no idea as to its origin, looks new), maybe I had a 26t at the largest for "training only". Also, my crankset was a 42-52, and I'm replacing the 42 to a 39ring that I have. So I'm "cheating" but just a little. Other than the gear range, I don't think there's much difference between 6 speeds and 8- I remember the passionate debates among my team mates every time Shimano or somebody increased the cogs from 5 to 6 to 7 to 8 then to 9... each time was incremental but no big advantage. The biggest differences to modern machines (that I notice) is clipless pedals, brifters and weight. On a friendly social ride, none of it really matters as long as everything is properly adjusted and not worn out- skipping chain, worn cleats etc. Fewer gears and downtube shifters present an opportunity to revisit old skills no longer as important- riding at less than perfect cadence, anticipating shifts, double-shifting front and rear- to me this is the main difference in how the ride "feels"- recreates what riding used to feel like and I sometimes miss it- in some ways the sport of cycling has gotten dumbed down by technology and stuff that just works even with clueless riders. My eroica bike will get ridden, not as much as some others but still a cool ride- although I had a few years on the old stuff, so it not be a new experience- maybe more of a learning curve for someone younger, and a what's the point difference as a result. After the event I may switch the saddle to my favorite Arione but otherwise I'll keep it "correct" even the toe clips, since I also dusted off my old Diadoras from the age of mullets and neon.

Edit: PS- back in the day it was common wisdom that the over the bar style brake levers worked with less friction and better modulation than the early iterations of aero levers. I have both aero 7400s and older DA (EX? 7200?) levers that I purchased back in the day as I didn't care as much for the "new" style- I guess I was a retrogrouch from an early age...

[FlashUNC]

http://www.storiedisport.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/bottecchia1.jpg

/cue David McCullough Narration and old timey Civil War fiddle music

Dearest Martha,
We have heard tales on the open, dust covered paths that those back on the homefront would like to know how to best survive the arduous journey we call Eroica through larger, wider gearing. I feel compelled by highest Providence to beseech you to share the wisdom we have gained from lo these many months traveling the highways and byways, filled with pain and suffering.

Though they may seek comfort in taller sprockets, believing that to be the balm of Gilead, I urge you to proclaim this the idyll fancy of a mind not exposed to the rigors of dirt carriageways some fools call "roads." What, after all, are a few extra teeth of sprocket when juxtaposed with the antipodean reality of steep, unrelenting dirt grades while wearing goat leather to protect one's nether regions. How will an extra "gear" as I hear these young lads call it, protect legs from burning agony, or the bouncing of a rutted trail to protect one's arms from the ache of repeated punishment.

Please, dear Martha, shout from the highest rooftop that it matters not what relief one seeks on the rear freehub, for the battlefields grind all men down to their barest essence; the heat and intensity of the land itself burning one down to his most base impulses, thoughts and desires.

Yours eternally,
Beauregard Albert Jackson IV

/end fiddle music

[cgolvin]

(By the way, there's a boatload {pun intended!} of recreation of vintage jerseys on eBay and AliExpress, if you're looking for one. Search cycling jerseys for "retro" or "vintage" in either place)

A few years ago I bought just such a Masi jersey for my brother, who still owns the frame that Faliero handed to him at the Vigorelli factory in 1972. Unfortunately, it was much larger than advertised and doesn't fit either of us.

If someone's interested in buying it for their Eroica ride (or whatever), send a PM. It's a Large black/white/green panels design, black letters.

[cachagua]

A few years ago I bought just such a Masi jersey for my brother, who still owns the frame that Faliero handed to him at the Vigorelli factory in 1972. Unfortunately, it was much larger than advertised...

Consider sneaking it away from him, along with a jersey that fits him, and get it tailored. Making it smaller won't be a problem for a competent tailor. Then you can give it to him again... next birthday. Next Eroica! Or just next month.

[zennmotion]

http://www.storiedisport.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/bottecchia1.jpg

/cue David McCullough Narration and old timey Civil War fiddle music

Dearest Martha,
. I feel compelled by highest Providence to beseech you to share the wisdom we have gained from lo these many months traveling the highways and byways, filled with pain and suffering.

... it matters not what relief one seeks on the rear freehub, for the battlefields grind all men down to their barest essence; the heat and intensity of the land itself burning one down to his most base impulses, thoughts and desires.

Yours eternally,
Beauregard Albert Jackson IV

/end fiddle music

:rolleyes: I need to have a dram of ale with this guy^

[Black Dog]

http://www.storiedisport.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/bottecchia1.jpg

/cue david mccullough narration and old timey civil war fiddle music

dearest martha,
we have heard tales on the open, dust covered paths that those back on the homefront would like to know how to best survive the arduous journey we call eroica through larger, wider gearing. I feel compelled by highest providence to beseech you to share the wisdom we have gained from lo these many months traveling the highways and byways, filled with pain and suffering.

Though they may seek comfort in taller sprockets, believing that to be the balm of gilead, i urge you to proclaim this the idyll fancy of a mind not exposed to the rigors of dirt carriageways some fools call "roads." what, after all, are a few extra teeth of sprocket when juxtaposed with the antipodean reality of steep, unrelenting dirt grades while wearing goat leather to protect one's nether regions. How will an extra "gear" as i hear these young lads call it, protect legs from burning agony, or the bouncing of a rutted trail to protect one's arms from the ache of repeated punishment.

Please, dear martha, shout from the highest rooftop that it matters not what relief one seeks on the rear freehub, for the battlefields grind all men down to their barest essence; the heat and intensity of the land itself burning one down to his most base impulses, thoughts and desires.

Yours eternally,
beauregard albert jackson iv

/end fiddle music

potd!!!

[zennmotion]

A few years ago I bought just such a Masi jersey for my brother, who still owns the frame that Faliero handed to him at the Vigorelli factory in 1972. Unfortunately, it was much larger than advertised and doesn't fit either of us.

If someone's interested in buying it for their Eroica ride (or whatever), send a PM. It's a Large black/white/green panels design, black letters.

Too large is good- more room for the team domestique to stuff a half dozen bidons to carry up to the tête de la course .

[muz]

Two years ago I rode with Andy Hampsten & he was running 8 speed Dura Ace. If he can, so can you!

I was also there, but I have a different perspective. That was Andy Hampsten's original race bike, and nobody was going to ask the guest of honor to remove his Look clipless pedals that he raced on back in the day.

I did not see any other rider using clipless pedals, and doing so would not have been in the spirit of the ride (for anybody but Andy H).

I think 8-speed cassette is fine. Shifters should probably be in friction mode.

[dancinkozmo]

actual photo of l'eroica regulation compliance commissar...

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/3EkmkyZyGDdLxo1ntqYjc1BpPto=/0x0:920x613/1200x800/filters:focal(379x122:525x268)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/58813727/ten_commandments.0.jpeg

[zennmotion]

Looks like Grant Peterson taking his accountant to task... Same person?

[Spdntrxi]

for what they charge and the highway robbery that is hotel rates that weekend.
(Cal Poly has open house too) They are lax on the rules. I'm doing it with a Look KG86 which was made in 1986.. so I just slide in.