Repair vs Replace?

[Gummee]

I'm in a discussion elsewhere about mechanics 'fixing' shifters by running them thru parts washers or ultrasonic cleaners and re-lubing.

These are primarily older Shimano bikes with 7-8sp shifters that get gummy and stop working after a while.

As a mechanic, I'd much rather talk to the customer about a new pair of shifters, rather than limping along their old stuff for another year or two. There seems to be another viewpoint that says 'we're saving the customer $ by 'fixing' the shifters. When the customer comes back in a year or two THEN we replace the shifters.

As a customer, which appeals more? Fix it now and for X (10, 20, whatever) years? or limp the old stuff along?

M

[AJosiahK]

i guess for me it would depend on the brand shifter. most are rebuildable.. but i agree that it might not always be worth the effort

[auto_rock]

I've flushed shifters a few times, but I've watched my LBS, on more than one occasion, taking someone's gummed up Shimano 8sp shifters and flushing them quickly with lube, and they click again. Charged between $0 and $10 (usually on the low end of that)

Maybe they come back in a few years? Maybe it works for 5-10 more? But importantly, it teaches them that sometimes, when they come in to get their bike fixed, they're out "fancy coffee" money not "new stereo" money, and that's a good way to keep people from being afraid to ride their bikes.

Also honestly, just seems more humane than charging them the over the counter cost of a pair of Shimano shifters ordered via QBP...

Let them come back in a few years if they're totally messed up.

[ultraman6970]

Looks like almost everybody does their own stuff.

[mtechnica]

I've had 8 speed shimano shifters that didn't work, then after hosing them out with WD40 and or TRIFLOW they worked for years. There's nothing wrong with hosing them out every few years if it means they keep working, and if you replace the shifters it might mean needing to upgrade the rest of the drivetrain which probably still works if it's shimano 7/8/9 speed.

[smontanaro]

I'm in a discussion elsewhere about mechanics 'fixing' shifters by running them thru parts washers or ultrasonic cleaners and re-lubing.

These are primarily older Shimano bikes with 7-8sp shifters that get gummy and stop working after a while.


I'm probably in the wrong demographic (my newest bike dates from the mid-80s), but if the problem is just that the part needs to be cleaned and lubed (nothing is worn or broken), my preference would be to fix it and move onto the next problem.

This approach might also be required. I suspect 8- or 9-speed brifters are getting harder to come by (perhaps 7-8-9-speed indexed shift levers as well) so the "buy a new part" idea might not work for your customer, as it might necessitate upgrade of the whole drivetrain.

That said, as a mechanic, your time is money. If the customer can't do their own maintenance (I work on my own bikes for the most part) and finds your labor rate too high, then buying replacement parts or upgrading might be his best choice.


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[CMiller]

I'd say the shifters last more than another year or two if done right

[Cicli]

Explain the situation to them. If they opt for cleaning at least make a couple of bucks on a tune up and recable.

[CMiller]

Also writing "aka do it right the first time" is definitely framing it in a negative way haha, if you want an accurate poll then put up a more objective answer.

[sg8357]

What is STI ?

My Shimano d/t and bar end shifters never need flushing.

[nmrt]

+1

also writing "aka do it right the first time" is definitely framing it in a negative way haha, if you want an accurate poll then put up a more objective answer.

[Big Dan]

CRC Power Lube is your friend.

[Kontact]

What 7 speed STI shifter that is currently being made is going to be the same quality as the RX100 shifter already on the bike?

[Gummee]

What 7 speed STI shifter that is currently being made is going to be the same quality as the RX100 shifter already on the bike?

Pretty much anything at this point. Those things weren't very good when they were new

If you want a specific recommendation, the Microshift shifters are very nice for the $$

M

[mtechnica]

Gummee I'm pretty sure that most of these shifters are mechanically completely fine and they're just gummed up by old grease. I don't understand why you're insinuating that cleaning them out and re-lubing them is somehow a half assed fix.

[FriarQuade]

Depends on the needs of the rider. If they are starting a cross country trip it's probably best to replace the shifter. If they just ride the thing then the flush and lube trick is a great option that can get thousands more miles out of a shifter. It's not full proof but when it works it works well.

[Llewellyn]

Trying to fix them has got to be better than sending them off to landfill

[oldpotatoe]

I'm in a discussion elsewhere about mechanics 'fixing' shifters by running them thru parts washers or ultrasonic cleaners and re-lubing.

These are primarily older Shimano bikes with 7-8sp shifters that get gummy and stop working after a while.

As a mechanic, I'd much rather talk to the customer about a new pair of shifters, rather than limping along their old stuff for another year or two. There seems to be another viewpoint that says 'we're saving the customer $ by 'fixing' the shifters. When the customer comes back in a year or two THEN we replace the shifters.

As a customer, which appeals more? Fix it now and for X (10, 20, whatever) years? or limp the old stuff along?

M

Well, with shimano, you aren't really 'repairing' them, as in, fixing a broken part but just cleaning them. If the BB was making noise, would you replace(if the bearings were still OK) or overhaul, clean/lube?

I never liked the 'bic lighter' aspect of modern bike parts...try to fix, then replace, IMHO.

[bikinchris]

Buy Campy. Campy 8 speed was so far superior to that Shimano junk back then there was no reason to compare them. You probably don't have very many of that era shifter still being used.
Oh, and taking off an Ultegra 8 speed shifters to install the lowest of the lowest in shifter sucks. I'd rather put Sun Race.

[nesteel]

I'm in a discussion elsewhere about mechanics 'fixing' shifters by running them thru parts washers or ultrasonic cleaners and re-lubing.

These are primarily older Shimano bikes with 7-8sp shifters that get gummy and stop working after a while.

As a mechanic, I'd much rather talk to the customer about a new pair of shifters, rather than limping along their old stuff for another year or two. There seems to be another viewpoint that says 'we're saving the customer $ by 'fixing' the shifters. When the customer comes back in a year or two THEN we replace the shifters.

As a customer, which appeals more? Fix it now and for X (10, 20, whatever) years? or limp the old stuff along?

M

If I was the type to take my bike to a shop (I'm not that person) due to a sticky shifter, I'm probably the type of customer who could be talked into a new shifter.
That, sadly, is what "service" has evolved (devolved?) into. We are now a remove and replace society.

[berserk87]

I guess it's a simple cost-benefit analysis. What is the cost to repair?

Are you able to find a new pair of shifters for 7-8 speed these days? If so, at what cost?

If not, that could likely mean additional expense to upgrade the derailleurs too.

A $20 repair (swag) would be worth it to eke another couple of years out of the existing shifters, for example.

[cmbicycles]

I think either one could be the "right way" in different situations, educate the customer on the options and let the customer decide. If you take your car in because it is surging at idle, does your mechanic tell you you the right thing is to replace parts, or does he clean the deposits out of the throttle body? Is one right and the other wrong? If he cleans the throttle body will the problem come back... yes in a few years it might. If he replaces it, will the problem come back... yes in a few years just like cleaning. Do you think the mechanic who cleans it and says it will require similar service in a few years is doing a hack job, or the one who replaces the part at 4x the cost?

Is the cost to clean and lube a shifter too little for your shop to make money? That is a LBS problem where they need to correct their billing. If you shoot in some lube and hope for the best, then $20+/- is probably fine as its like a derailleur adjustment at that point. I don't see why it couldn't be $50+ to service shifters, oh and might a good idea to sell suggest new cables and bar tape if you are removing the shifters for cleaning/lubing.

Shifters aren't hard to clean and lube, and the older 7/8s are often more likely to get up and running again than the 9/10s. It would be good customer service to give the customer information regarding both options... this service (at $$) should take care of this for a few years or more, if you are still riding this bike in a couple years (seed planted for new bike purchase) and the problem comes back we can look at repeating the service again ($$), or look at replacing the shifters ($$$) either now or then.

Customer... "which would you recommend?" LBS... "If you are looking to keep this bike for a while then why don't we try servicing, and if the problem comes back within X days, we'll credit the labor towards installing new shifters." If it resolves in the stand & test ride, I've not had one come back later that devolved into not working again. The other thing to consider is that if a bike is still sporting 7/8s sti shifters, the cost of replacing them will in many (not all of course) instances be more than the bike is worth, so that is something to share with the customer as well... again seed planted for upgrade the whole bike, "here is a new bike for $600 with the shifters we would likely install, service contract available... blah blah blah."

I just did this to a couple bikes last week, one with 10s Ultegra and the other with 7s RSX. Both had been sitting unused for a few years, as is typical of this problem along with colder weather. I have no doubt both will work flawlessly for years to come.

[Kontact]

Buy Campy. Campy 8 speed was so far superior to that Shimano junk back then there was no reason to compare them. You probably don't have very many of that era shifter still being used.
Oh, and taking off an Ultegra 8 speed shifters to install the lowest of the lowest in shifter sucks. I'd rather put Sun Race.

Where are you going to find a Campy 8 shifter or cassette?

[bicycletricycle]

I used to fix peoples rapid fire shifters all the time with dental tools, brake clean and fresh lubricant. Those little ratchet pawls would usually just be gummed up.

I would just give them the option, for 20 dollars I can try to fix them but there is no saying how long the fix will last, or you can pay whatever the cost for new shifters and installation would be (often much much more).


nothing wrong with giving people options.

[BikeNY]

In today's disposable society the right thing to do is try to fix them first. Most likely, they just need a good cleaning and lube and then will run fine for years to come. If that doesn't fix them, you need to lay out the options for replacement. Depending on the age of the shifters, that might mean a whole new drivetrain, and I get the feeling most people coming in will not like the numbers associated with that!

[Ken Robb]

I haven't had to fix my 9x3 Ultegra shifters but I have done it by cleaning/re-lubing my 9 speed mtn. thumbies a couple of times since 2001. After servicing they shift like new.

[nesteel]

Where are you going to find a Campy 8 shifter or cassette?

A quick google search shows Miche still produces a couple cassettes, and finding a decent, used shifter/s on Ebay is about as easy as anything else.

[Gummee]

I used to fix peoples rapid fire shifters all the time with dental tools, brake clean and fresh lubricant. Those little ratchet pawls would usually just be gummed up.

I would just give them the option, for 20 dollars I can try to fix them but there is no saying how long the fix will last, or you can pay whatever the cost for new shifters and installation would be (often much much more).


nothing wrong with giving people options.

The 7/8sp shifters are MAYBE $25 for the pair.

M

[bicycletricycle]

The 7/8sp shifters are MAYBE $25 for the pair.

M

yes, some old ones are integrated into the levers as well.

Cheap brake levers $25
Cheap shifters $25
Labor $40

even installing both shifters would run you $20-$40 at most shops.

Both of these options are a lot more than cleaning the shifters.

[batman1425]

I've resurrected several shimano shifters with the clean and relube methodology. IMO, if it can be fixed, fix it. I hate throwing serviceable stuff away.

[Kontact]

A quick google search shows Miche still produces a couple cassettes, and finding a decent, used shifter/s on Ebay is about as easy as anything else.

Do the Miche cassettes work on current Campy freehubs, or only on the old 8 speed hubs? And you have to find an 8 speed compatible rear derailleur because the pull ratio changed, too.

It appears that you would require an early '80s freehub, shifter and rear mech to use that new Miche cassette. Am I wrong?

[Kontact]

The 7/8sp shifters are MAYBE $25 for the pair.

M

What kind of shifters are we talking about? New integrated shifters start around $50 for Microshift.

[mtechnica]

The 7/8sp shifters are MAYBE $25 for the pair.

M

No, look on eBay.

[bikinchris]

Do the Miche cassettes work on current Campy freehubs, or only on the old 8 speed hubs? And you have to find an 8 speed compatible rear derailleur because the pull ratio changed, too.

It appears that you would require an early '80s freehub, shifter and rear mech to use that new Miche cassette. Am I wrong?

What?

[Kontact]

What?

Which part didn't you understand? I'm asking if anything from the 8 speed era is compatible with later parts.

[CiclistiCliff]

Explain the situation to them. If they opt for cleaning at least make a couple of bucks on a tune up and recable.

Yep.

Any current 8/9 speed shifter is garbage anyways.