Where do you spin out, how do you improve leg strength?

[dzen]

I find I spin out someplace around 120 rpm downhill. I can probably spin faster but it seems to be wasteful.

I am curious if I should be working twords a higher top end by trying to improve my form etc...

I have another question:
How do you increase leg strength so you do not need to shift down as much on long hills?

Climbing more hills? Strength training in a gym?

If the response is climbing more hills, then at what cadence might it be good to target for improving my climbing strength without putting too much stress on my knees or back. (Currently I am lucky to have no issues with either.)

Thanks for any feedback.

[saab2000]

The best way to go uphill faster is to lose weight. That will have more effect than gaining strength in my experience. If you are as light as you can be then lifting weights helps. Leg press and extensions.

[swoop]

force intervals in zone 2. 53x12 at a low heart rate focusing on constant force through pedal stroke. once a week. 20 minutes up slight incline.. to start with.

there are spin up drills. it's easy to hit 160's ina sprint.... move forward on your saddle.. tighten your core.

[Dave]

for different folks. There is no single correct answer for climbing technique. Power is torque times cadence. If you deliberately use a gear that's too large, you're forced to use a high torque, low cadence method of climbing. That may work for short hills, but if you climb mountains, it's not a good idea. After four seasons in the Colorado mountains, I've reached two conclusions. Seated climbing works best for me at a cadence of 80-90 rpm. I use whatever gear it takes to maintain that cadence. A rider who can mash at 65 rpm might get buy with a 39/25, but to produce the same power at 85 rpm, you need a 39/32, which is best provided with a triple crank and a 28/23 (same gear ratio). I use a 53/39/28 with a 12-25, so I rarely find myself short of gearing.

If you want to complete a climb faster, learning to pedal standing for long periods (10-15 minutes nonstop) is important to learn. It does put more strain on the aerobic system, but it's the only way I can increase my climbing speed substantially. The trick with climbing standing is also not to use too big of a gear. I usually use 2 cogs smaller than I would use seated. You want a gear that mainly uses your weight to spin the pedals, not a large amount of leg strength and certainly not the "aid" of a lot of pulling with the arms. If you select a too large a gear, then your cadence will drop too low and you'll tire quickly. I nearly always pedal standing in my middle (39T) ring, using cogs 17-23. When I sit back down, most often I immediately shift to my little ring (28T). It's a good transition shift, usually requiring no cog shifting.

[Fat Robert]

force intervals in zone 2. 53x12 at a low heart rate focusing on constant force through pedal stroke. once a week. 20 minutes up slight incline.. to start with.

there are spin up drills. it's easy to hit 160's ina sprint.... move forward on your saddle.. tighten your core.


or zone 3 for the MT ints

the CTS "stomps" are good, too

i can't hit higher than 130rpm, but i'm also a mile behind the bb...

i'm not getting into this again...but i do like wieghts during the off-season. you'll hit higher watts on the stomps, jumps, and MTs if you do them in concert with strength training. the gym work also helps prevent knee injuries while doing the high-resistance training on the bike.

if you're a triathete or duathlete, ignore all of this. if you're doing uscf racing, you need strength training...or you simply won't have the power to react to sudden accelerations or to be competitive in sprints. i don't care what some lab geek says. the guys who win sprints and can make nasty attacks are the ones who do on-bike strength training during their foundation periods. the guys who just ride slowly get smacked.

[swoop]

cheap dope= plyometrics, core work, single leg press, squats, force workouts and spinups.

[Fat Robert]

unlike swoop, i'm not a fan of plyometrics for cyclists. i've done sessions with triathletes, duathletes, our XC team, our soccer and tennis teams on plyos, and for all those athletes, plyos can significantly improve stride length and turnover (for distance runners too...not just sprinters...check what kipketer and el g have done the last six years with incorporating hurdle hops, bounding, and even some gym work in their programs) acceleration, takeoff, and reactive power, because all of those sports are weight bearing, and thus engage the stretch reflex/eccentric contractions -- what plyos stress. plyos stress overloading the stretch/eccentric phase of a movement, and its largely through increasing the elasticity and strength of the muscles in that phase that the improvement in the ability to explode with the following eccentric contraction develops....


to make long crap short, cycling is a closed-chain, non-weight brearing motion, and thus the mechanisms engaged by plyos are entirely absent from our sport. i don't see a lot of value for them, unless you're a track sprinter and you need to squeeze out every possible advantage for 10 seconds.

if you're going to do mp stuff off the bike, leave it at core training and leg strength training (in that order of importance)

[fiamme red]

Get a fixed gear, young man! Downhills will make you smooth at high cadences (I've hit 190 rpm) and steep climbs will make you strong.

[Climb01742]

work your glutes. having strong glutes, and getting them to fire, can make a huge difference.

[Too Tall]

Dzen - yep, work on form this winter...a great use of your time fer sher. Make yourself ride one gear easier than normal all the time and when you are alone work on small ring spinning while in the drops. A wonderful workout that improves leg strength AND high speed form is a BIG GEAR spin up. Start at a very slow speed (5mph) in a 53X17 on a nice bit of flat to downward trending road and see how fast you can go before form breaks. Record top speed and rpms for future comparision and to see progress. You will find that it is helpful to push heels down at lower rpms and begin to raise heels from 90 rpms +. Enjoy ;)

[Fixed]

ride a fixed gear this winter and have fun
cheers

[swoop]

unlike swoop, i'm not a fan of plyometrics for cyclists. i've done sessions with triathletes, duathletes, our XC team, our soccer and tennis teams on plyos, and for all those athletes, plyos can significantly improve stride length and turnover (for distance runners too...not just sprinters...check what kipketer and el g have done the last six years with incorporating hurdle hops, bounding, and even some gym work in their programs) acceleration, takeoff, and reactive power, because all of those sports are weight bearing, and thus engage the stretch reflex/eccentric contractions -- what plyos stress. plyos stress overloading the stretch/eccentric phase of a movement, and its largely through increasing the elasticity and strength of the muscles in that phase that the improvement in the ability to explode with the following eccentric contraction develops....


to make long crap short, cycling is a closed-chain, non-weight brearing motion, and thus the mechanisms engaged by plyos are entirely absent from our sport. i don't see a lot of value for them, unless you're a track sprinter and you need to squeeze out every possible advantage for 10 seconds.

if you're going to do mp stuff off the bike, leave it at core training and leg strength training (in that order of importance)
interesting. hmmm... it's so individual.. for me plyos turned me into a sprinter. lot's of times sprinting in races is different than training rides because you're sprinting from a tempo that already has you maxed out.
it's not like just jumping from 28mph.. it's jumping from 40 with your eyes popping out. and while i do clearly suck... really suck... plyos and spin ups helped mixed with low intensity power. raise the intensity as it gets closer to spring. the gym is poor mans dope.
but like al things.. it's really about what you think will work for you. what's that saying.. all rivers lead to the ocean.... you just have to find what works for you.
in all my very finite wisdom.. i've still never got better than 2nd place in a sprint... but my power has increased a ton every year doing spin ups. plyos, core and the gym.

a good coach or learning face to face from a local phenom will do wonders.

[Cary Ford]

Plyos put snap in legs (mine) that have none otherwise.

Being not a racer anymore...and not much of a rider lately, I find the more I can integrate non bike specific exercises into my 'training' the better I feel on the bike as I get older, slower, lazier, fatter, drunker and stupider...

[bironi]

another for fixed.

[dzen]

Thanks for all the feedback. This place is a great resource.

[Ti Designs]

Thanks for all the feedback. This place is a great resource.

Not in this case. You have answers (more like opinions) that are all over the map. Nobody here knows a thing about you, so it's all cookbook coaching at best. Find a good coach who will spend the time with you and coach you as an individual.

[dzen]

Its obvious the suggestions are varied, and are not tailored to my situation. I didn't give much information, I can only expect so much in return.

It is up to me to use my own common sense to filter what I am reading and determine if I wish to apply it to my situation.

I think the forum is a good resource and I appreciate the feedback.

The coach idea is a good one.

Thanks