Seven Cycles is killing it right now

[jambee]

Talk about being innovative and being honest:

http://www.sevencycles.com/options/xx.php

Seven is really embarking on a great adventure with things like the above link and the new 2x2 Evergreen model (image stolen from their instagram feed below).

After riding my Seven for 5 years, I am far from being tired of it. It's an awesome machine, but they are making it hard not to **want** a new one.

[Tickdoc]

meh. Love my seven but not for any of those reasons. I think I am just stuck in my old was, tho. I like flat top tubes, rim brakes with campy and road bikes that have a really nice ride.

[tigoat]

Rubbish. If you want a lightweight frame/bike then you would get a carbon fiber one. Besides, Firefly is the king of New England Ti builder so who would need anything else.

[bicycletricycle]

That new XX lightweight is nice, like the internal seatpost clamp.

[PaMtbRider]

I saw the XX option a couple of months ago. If I was interested in an Evergreen I would much rather spend the money on the carbon tubed Pro model. It would probably weigh less, have a better ride quality, less likely to fail, and cost about the same.

[FlashUNC]

I like their road stuff.

The Evergreen Pro I saw was fantastic, but the gravel stuff ain't my thing.

[sandyrs]

The XX is an interesting exercise and certainly looked nice when I saw it in person, but I can't really imagine (anyone) ever buying one. Buying a metal disc bike and being weight-obsessed are incompatible IMO, especially if you have the money for an XX. If you're not weight-obsessed, you don't care about (and certainly don't want to pay for) the little details that make the XX lighter, and if you do care, it's probably still too heavy.

The dropped-chainstay "2x2" is interesting because the dropped chainstay really only matters if you are trying to get exceptionally short chainstays. The XX on their blog has exceptionally long ones, and I'm sure that frame can clear a Byway (or bigger) just fine as it sits. It's nice I guess that Seven is willing to go with a customer's preference for short stays though, and I suppose it's the customer's money after all.

I also think that 2x2 is trying to do too much in one bike; when you start splitting your cables so that you can swap an entirely separate handlebar onto the bike (https://www.instagram.com/p/BfdouolHq2o/), it might just be time to buy a hardtail.

Their less extreme bikes can be very nice. I really like their raw ti frames with the "oversized" decals you occasionally see.

[earlfoss]

That bike is definitely not my bag in the looks department. I bet it rides nice though.

[bicycletricycle]

for some reason a bunch of people are obsessed with short chainstays. The dropped stay solution is an interesting option to achieve this, I wonder how it compares to a machined yoke

The XX is an interesting exercise and certainly looked nice when I saw it in person, but I can't really imagine (anyone) ever buying one. Buying a metal disc bike and being weight-obsessed are incompatible IMO, especially if you have the money for an XX. If you're not weight-obsessed, you don't care about (and certainly don't want to pay for) the little details that make the XX lighter, and if you do care, it's probably still too heavy.

The dropped-chainstay "2x2" is interesting because the dropped chainstay really only matters if you are trying to get exceptionally short chainstays. The XX on their blog has exceptionally long ones, and I'm sure that frame can clear a Byway (or bigger) just fine as it sits. It's nice I guess that Seven is willing to go with a customer's preference for short stays though, and I suppose it's the customer's money after all.

I also think that 2x2 is trying to do too much in one bike; when you start splitting your cables so that you can swap an entirely separate handlebar onto the bike (https://www.instagram.com/p/BfdouolHq2o/), it might just be time to buy a hardtail.

Their less extreme bikes can be very nice. I really like their raw ti frames with the "oversized" decals you occasionally see.

[bob heinatz]

I think this is a win win for the consumer. Seven already builds great ti bikes but is now offering some additional weight savings on their frame. For most ti lovers these changes won't matter but in a carbon crazed industry it might attract some new interest in their frames.

[NoMoreParagon]

Still think they behind Moots, Firefly and Mosaic if aesthetic is what the customer is after.

Lack of internal routing for brake cable is puzzling for a bike that expensive...

Having said that i saw some Evergreen on the road and they look great and better priced than the 3 above.

[John H.]

Yes- Seven is killing it right now.

Their bikes are hitting the mark for function-

But if weight is your main concern, carbon will always win that battle.

[Mzilliox]

Yes- Seven is killing it right now.

Their bikes are hitting the mark for function-

But if weight is your main concern, carbon will always win that battle.

perhaps, and yes, a lot of this bike is carbon (though classy tubed carbon). but at 15.9lbs with pedals, cages, a saddle bag flat kit, and my computer mounted, who needs lighter?
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4719/39545756104_dfd1aaea3c_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/23fwkx7)lovely day (https://flic.kr/p/23fwkx7) by Matt.zilliox (https://www.flickr.com/photos/41573599@N06/), on Flickr

[jambee]

I think that you guys are missing the point.

If a customer want to get a Ti ride, saving weight will make sense. I prefer light Ti than a plastic bike. So the XX project is smart.

[jambee]

Matt is just being unfair!

[Mzilliox]

as for aesthetics, No22 is every bit as exciting as Firefly right now for road bikes. Firefly has almost gone too weird for me to enjoy them anymore.

[jambee]

FF kills it on one level: mono stay!

[tigoat]

FF kills it on one level: mono stay!

??? Not sure what you are talking about here. By the way, I am no FF fanboy, I just wanted to point out the fact that they are in New England and are very popular. The only big Ti building company that I am a fan of is Moots.

[FlashUNC]

Rob Vandermark once distracted my girlfriend with enough conversation and tasting of coffee at Ride Studio Cafe that I had to drag her outta the place -- the first time I've ever had to do that at a bike shop.

That alone wins my loyalty for the day I decide to get a Ti frame.

[jambee]

Firefly uses mono stay or as they are sometimes calls wishbone stay. No 22 and Seven do not do it.

[jambee]

@FlashUNC I did the same thing! I had to drag friends that don't care about bikes from RSC many times. That shop is so much fun.

[John H.]

Yes- But a comparable full carbon bike would be 400-600 grams lighter than that.

I am not saying ti bikes are bad, in fact I love ti bikes. I am just saying that if weight is your concern, a ti bike is not in the same ballpark as a full carbon bike.

That said- I will probably get something like a Seven SLX or XX in the future. Maybe a hybrid if they will make me one without the hidden seat binder.
But weight will not be my main focus on that bike-

My carbon disc bike with fatter tires than your Seven is 15.5 lb ;)


perhaps, and yes, a lot of this bike is carbon (though classy tubed carbon). but at 15.9lbs with pedals, cages, a saddle bag flat kit, and my computer mounted, who needs lighter?
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4719/39545756104_dfd1aaea3c_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/23fwkx7)lovely day (https://flic.kr/p/23fwkx7) by Matt.zilliox (https://www.flickr.com/photos/41573599@N06/), on Flickr

[johngmartin]

Agreed. Seven is killing it! I was just at NAHBS this weekend, and was reminded how so much of the industry is just chasing aesthetics right now - it is all paint, form, and instagrammable pictures. Seven is still totally focused on function (sometimes too much so), and that is refreshing. I don't know enough about the 2x2 to chime in on how good of an idea it is, but I love that they are thinking hard about solving problems (even ones we dont have) instead of thinking hard about how to get likes on instagram.

And as others have said, the ti and carbon markets are totally different audiences. Some people want lightweight plastic bikes that are made in China, others want durable metal bikes made in the USA. Both are fine answers. I have a very new Seven Evergreen SL, built for me late last year, and I can't wait to spend many miles with the bike!

[Mzilliox]

Yes- But a comparable full carbon bike would be 400-600 grams lighter than that.

I am not saying ti bikes are bad, in fact I love ti bikes. I am just saying that if weight is your concern, a ti bike is not in the same ballpark as a full carbon bike.

That said- I will probably get something like a Seven SLX or XX in the future. Maybe a hybrid if they will make me one without the hidden seat binder.
But weight will not be my main focus on that bike-

My carbon disc bike with fatter tires than your Seven is 15.5 lb ;)

of course there are lighter bikes, but is that an advantage? and did you weigh your 15.5 sans normal stuff that people actually ride with or does that include pedals, computer, seat bag (mini pump, spare tube, lever, multi tool) and cup holders??? And anyway, Im not sure it is an advantage past a certain point to be light. the lightness comes with its own issues, there is certainly a point where its no longer a gain. and this thing is also dead silent, which goes a long way for me. so i get your point, lightness for the sake of lightness means carbon, but thats not what Seven does, is it? They do Ti. and im glad, because i don't think i have stepped over an all cabron bike that feels like this. im not saying there aren't better carbon bikes, simply that one would have to really try hard to find that.

i am very happy with this Seven, its a damn fine bike, and gives me everything i had hoped for in the zanconato i let go, plus so much more. this bike is better than i thought it would be in every way. its even opened my eyes as to what carbon can feel like in the right hands. No chatter, no vibrations, no ugly, fat, in the way, weird shaped tubes, no weird road feel, just miles and smiles for days, the butter of my finest steel ride, and 2 lbs less.

love

[jambee]

@John H.

jpeg or it did not happen.

[sandyrs]

of course there are lighter bikes, but is that an advantage? Im not sure it is an advantage. the lightness comes with its own issues. and this thing is also dead silent, which goes a long way for me. so i get your point, lightness for the sake of lightness means carbon, but thats not what Seven does, is it? They do Ti. and im glad, because i don't think i have stepped over an all cabron bike that feels like this. im not saying there aren't better carbon bikes, simply that one would have to really try hard to find that.

i am very happy with this Seven, its a damn fine bike, and gives me everything i had hoped for in the zanconato i let go, plus so much more. this bike is better than i thought it would be in every way. its even opened my eyes as to what carbon can feel like in the right hands. No chatter, no vibrations, no ugly, fat, in the way, weird shaped tubes, no weird road feel, just miles and smiles for days, the butter of my finest steel ride, and 2 lbs less.

love

They tried their hand at full carbon too. Just an interesting historical point.

https://www.sevencycles.com/news/bicyling-magazine-diamas-slx.php

[Marc40a]

I think it's cool. I mean this is how design evolution occurs, no?

[eBAUMANN]

is there an explanation of that "2x2" somewhere im not seeing?

is there some use for a dropped stay besides reducing chainslap?
(a thing ive never once considered a problem worth solving, especially with a Ti frame...)

do you get some extra tire clearance or something?

im all for form following function...but there is usually a way of achieving both.

They tried their hand at full carbon too. Just an interesting historical point.

https://www.sevencycles.com/news/bicyling-magazine-diamas-slx.php

THAT. was a hot mess.
I am still impressed that they were able to get themselves into (and out of) that without going bankrupt.

[pdmtong]

while easy to say if you want to save weight just go carbon, the problem is that you can't easily get a CUSTOM carbon...

ti is clearly the better choice for gravel than steel. you can get it custom geo and custom options, and now just a shade light er (XX) .

so I dont really see this as a why spend XX just go to carbon discussion. its a ti and lighter ti discussion

FWIW when seven had the odonota and "one bike - yours" years ago they were darlings. then they faded. nice to see them back

[sandyrs]

while easy to say if you want to save weight just go carbon, the problem is that you can't easily get a CUSTOM carbon...

ti is clearly the better choice for gravel than steel. you can get it custom geo and custom options, and now just a shade light er (XX) .

so I dont really see this as a why spend XX just go to carbon discussion. its a ti and lighter ti discussion

FWIW when seven had the odonota and "one bike - yours" years ago they were darlings. then they faded. nice to see them back

They never faded around here, everyone and their mom (among a certain crowd of course) is on a Seven. It's pretty awesome to see a group ride with more custom Ti bikes than Tarmacs.

[jambee]

I also never saw that Seven faded. Hell, one of the reasons I like them so much, is that they have the size to really innovate and do very significant testing.

Firefly and Indy Fab are great as well (I'm only focusing on New England builders), but due to Seven's size, they can run projects like the XX and 2x2.

Eric: 2x2 is basically two wheel sizes in the same frame and two different bars on the same frame. The bent chain stay is to allow for very short stays (less than 42mm) and the bend on the seat tube is to leave room for fenders AND 50mm rubber. That's pretty impressive.

I suspect that the next move is actually in the direction of 2.35 inch 650b which will be an even crazier design feat. You can do it with Carbon, but as was said on the thread, doing a custom carbon bike is insanely costly.

[Tickdoc]

Love my Odonata. I was never a fan of mixed material bikes, but I remember reading this glowing review of this crazy light custom dream bike years ago. I remember at the time it was like a $7k bike and I thought that is just crazy money for a bicycle.

Fast forward and I was able to pick mine up for peanuts in perfect condition and it is a favorite, especially for climbing and all day comfort.

Gently used bikes rock, and seven makes one hell of a bicycle.

https://i.imgur.com/Xf9dhhkl.jpg

[eBAUMANN]

Eric: 2x2 is basically two wheel sizes in the same frame and two different bars on the same frame. The bent chain stay is to allow for very short stays (less than 42mm) and the bend on the seat tube is to leave room for fenders AND 50mm rubber. That's pretty impressive.

K...fair enough...at the risk of tooting my own horn...I built my CX frame to very similar specs (minus the bar swapping...)...with a LUGGED 68mm wide BB shell and nothing weird. (https://www.instagram.com/p/BKPJOqihuj_/?taken-by=imshicycles)

I spec'd paragon rockers with 425mm in the middle of the swing. There is ACRES of space.
I can fit at least 2.1" 29er rubber, probably 2.3" 650B (will be able to test that soon).

Not to say I dont applaud seven for doing this, it gets harder to achieve with Ti (vs steel) but i cant help but feel like there are ways of achieving that same end result (some sort of plate-based yoke comes to mind) without resorting to a wonky lookin dropped stay.

[pdmtong]

I haven't seen a newer seven on the road out here in a long time. there just isn't much traction for east coast builders despite their pedigree. Same with FF or IF.

[FlashUNC]

I haven't seen a newer seven on the road out here in a long time. there just isn't much traction for east coast builders despite their pedigree. Same with FF or IF.

I'd go so far as to say at least in the East Bay, I don't see much Ti at all. Lots of carbon and steel, but not a lot of Ti bikes when I'm riding the usual loops.

[pdmtong]

I'd go so far as to say at least in the East Bay, I don't see much Ti at all. Lots of carbon and steel, but not a lot of Ti bikes when I'm riding the usual loops.
same here. I might see an old merlin (old as in 2000-ish) a few moots (including my own) but seven? nope. Palo Alto Bicycles is the biggest Seven dealer around here - used to see a lot more then than now.

[jambee]

K...fair enough...[URL="https://www.instagram.com/p/BKPJOqihuj_/?taken-by=imshicycles"]...
I spec'd paragon rockers with 425mm in the middle of the swing. There is ACRES of space.
I can fit at least 2.1" 29er rubber, probably 2.3" 650B (will be able to test that soon).
.

I agree with you Eric, the stay looks strange, but, with that stay you can get under 420mm stays and insert a compact crank. That's what it's all about it seems.

Btw, your frame is hot.

[dogrange]

I’m just surprised the XX is such a big upcharge to an already expensive frame. It seems to get them in the ballpark of what other ti builders are doing like FF, but at a 1k upcharge.


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[NYCfixie]

...Lack of internal routing for brake cable is puzzling for a bike that expensive...



I asked a similar question about three years ago when I was on a Seven factory tour:
- One person said it only adds weight because you have to install an internal tube to route the cable to "do it right". Also, it can make cable/housing replacement more difficult.
- The answer I got from another person during the tour was, "it does not add functionality or performance so why bother, it's only an aesthetic choice".

[AngryScientist]

I'm always surprised at how many people there must still be who are happy to spend big money on metal bikes. It's amazing (to me) that the market can support multiple companies who produce really high dollar frames. Seven, moots, mosaic, firefly - all seem to be having no trouble selling bikes.

All of the guys I see regularly and ride with are on mid level carbon or aluminum mass market bikes. Lots of specialized and cannondale around me.

I guess I'm just surprised that companies like seven can not only keep the order book full; but go further and offer even higher end frames.

Wild.

[ltwtsculler91]

I'm always surprised at how many people there must still be who are happy to spend big money on metal bikes. It's amazing (to me) that the market can support multiple companies who produce really high dollar frames. Seven, moots, mosaic, firefly - all seem to be having no trouble selling bikes.

All of the guys I see regularly and ride with are on mid level carbon or aluminum mass market bikes. Lots of specialized and cannondale around me.

I guess I'm just surprised that companies like seven can not only keep the order book full; but go further and offer even higher end frames.

Wild.

You're not too far from a spot where a TON of guys are on high end metal bikes with all sorts of components from force/ultegra/chorus up to eTap.. I think the metal bike stuff really comes down to being able to customize a frame for you. When spending $2500+ on a nice frame this is a huge draw, and when built up the price isn't that different than a nicely equipped mass market frame, but you know it was built just for you. I think these guys have a lot of more mid-tier $5000-$6000 bikes going out the door than high zoot no expense spared builds.

You're just not riding with the right gang in NJ :banana:

[wc1934]

I haven't seen a newer seven on the road out here in a long time. there just isn't much traction for east coast builders despite their pedigree. Same with FF or IF.

I was talking with Craig Gaulzetti at the NAHBS and he is now selling Sevens in his shop.

[choke]

I’m just surprised the XX is such a big upcharge to an already expensive frame. It seems to get them in the ballpark of what other ti builders are doing like FF, but at a 1k upcharge. Yep....while it's cool from an engineering standpoint an extra $1k to save 8 ounces is just crazy to me.

[NoMoreParagon]

I asked a similar question about three years ago when I was on a Seven factory tour:
- One person said it only adds weight because you have to install an internal tube to route the cable to "do it right". Also, it can make cable/housing replacement more difficult.
- The answer I got from another person during the tour was, "it does not add functionality or performance so why bother, it's only an aesthetic choice".



Yeah I hear you... the internal tube is usually made of brass. Don’t think it add any significant weight. I would say 50g at most.
Aesthetic and function are equally important for me so internal cabling was a must for me


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[pdmtong]

Yep....while it's cool from an engineering standpoint an extra $1k to save 8 ounces is just crazy to me.

Speedvagen owners may also be willing to pay for the last mile . . .

CARBON FIBER SEAT TUBE- $875
We developed our carbon fiber seat tube with our friends at ENVE Composites the same way we have worked with our steel tubing partners. Using the highest quality materials and most-exacting processes, we created a seat tube made to our exact specifications for thickness, stiffness, and weight. The carbon seat tube will soak up shock from the road, it offers a weight savings of between 200-300 grams depending on frame size and comes standard on Superlight Speedvagen models

[earlfoss]

The Seven in this pic looks one smaller front wheel away from being one of those awful looking Terry bikes.

I love ti. I want a ti hardtail MTB so bad right now.

[PNW]

Meh, not blown away by this at all and think that is ugly IMO..the extra $$ to save that weight is not worth it.

[choke]

Speedvagen owners may also be willing to pay for the last mile . . .

CARBON FIBER SEAT TUBE- $875
We developed our carbon fiber seat tube with our friends at ENVE Composites the same way we have worked with our steel tubing partners. Using the highest quality materials and most-exacting processes, we created a seat tube made to our exact specifications for thickness, stiffness, and weight. The carbon seat tube will soak up shock from the road, it offers a weight savings of between 200-300 grams depending on frame size and comes standard on Superlight Speedvagen modelsIt takes all kinds to make a world....

[pdmtong]

It takes all kinds to make a world....
I think it's simpler than that...a person gets into the custom dream bike state of mind, finds themselves at $8k+ and then just decides e ff it, I'm going "all the way" and now that extra G gets put on the table. the buyer feels "all in" and "no regrets"....

[jambee]

Let me tell you a story about Seven.

When I went in to get measured for my custom bike, I asked Rob if it is worth my $$$ to get the lighter version. There was an $800 between the S and the next lighter version.

Rob said "naaa...take that money and invest in light wheels".

So I ended up with the cheapest custom made Ti bike I could have bought at the time from a very reputable company with great attitude and the nicest people.

My Seven is still my number one bike. That's 5 years and counting.

[johngmartin]

I was talking with Craig Gaulzetti at the NAHBS and he is now selling Sevens in his shop.

Craig Gaulzetti works for Seven... at least, he worked there in 2016 when I last visited Seven. Maybe he left?

[Faucet]

Craig Gaulzetti works for Seven... at least, he worked there in 2016 when I last visited Seven. Maybe he left?

Craig actually opened a shop down here in San Diego. He carries Gaulzetti (surprise), Seven, and Pegoretti

http://summercycles.com/about-us/

[AJosiahK]

I can totally get behind the Seven team and their design work. Some solid folks with some really good ideas.

This new model doesnt totally strike me as amazingly new or innovated. There are lots of interesting features for sure.

Their bikes arent always meant to look rad first and function second. I admire that about Seven, they put function and especially Fit over aesthetics. And there certainly other builders out there that do the same. You can have two of the exact same bikes w/ the same fancy kit build for two very different people, and one ends up looking like a gorgeous race machine, the other a funky monkey.

I own a built for me Evergreen, its great! Certainly can do everything, but not as well as those bikes built for those disciplines.


The up charge on this bike I imagine comes from the build process... count those welds.

[myth_jimmy]

Every person I've met involved with Seven is awesome, and Ride Studio folks are awesome too.

Every side-project from people at Seven I've seen is awesome also. ( I have a couple).


Good people are important.

[Bonesbrigade]

Maybe I missed it, but what is the starting frame weight vs. the new uber light weight version? I'm just looking for some context compared to my steel English.

Btw, my English gravel/road bike (2x2 I suppose!) has short stays 413mm and can fit 700x42 and 650x48 (likely a bit more for both formats) without doing weird stuff with the chain stay - meaning retaining symmetry!

[andrewsuzuki]

Maybe I missed it, but what is the starting frame weight vs. the new uber light weight version? I'm just looking for some context compared to my steel English.

Probably comparable to your English. Average slx (ultra-butted) Seven frame weight is ~1250g according to their site. iirc Rob's 953 road frame was ~1100g, then add a bit for the slightly less luxurious steel he commonly uses.

[jambee]

Maybe I missed it, but what is the starting frame weight vs. the new uber light weight version? I'm just looking for some context compared to my steel English.

Btw, my English gravel/road bike (2x2 I suppose!) has short stays 413mm and can fit 700x42 and 650x48 (likely a bit more for both formats) without doing weird stuff with the chain stay - meaning retaining symmetry!

@Bonesbrigade - time for a jpeg!!!

[weisan]

The one place where I saw more Sevens than any other brands by a long stretch is D2R2.

But that's understandable.

[Bonesbrigade]

@Bonesbrigade - time for a jpeg!!!

I've posted it a few times around here, but here you go: