OT: R.I.P. Rev. Billy Graham

[Bruce K]

Iconic American figure.

99 years old.

BK

[tv_vt]

I know where this is going to go.

Can we just lock this now, please?

[HenryA]

I know where this is going to go.

Can we just lock this now, please?

How about just keep it dignified?

[ergott]

How about just keep it dignified?

Religion and politics all wrapped up in one person?

Not gonna happen.

[fa63]

Religion and politics all wrapped up in one person?

Not gonna happen.

:)

[miksibis]

yep. so many touchy subjects in one. this should go off the rails quickly.

[Bentley]

We should be able to be civil. One of the great things about being American and living in America is the diversity we enjoy. We don’t have to agree on anything but we can just acknowledge a life that was lived.

RIP Rev. Graham

[Chris]

Not religious, but I appreciate how he lived his life with dignity. R.I.P.

And...in before the lock.

[makoti]

I saw that. Not a fan. Still, one death diminishes us all.

[oldpotatoe]

I saw that. Not a fan. Still, one death diminishes us all.

I don’t really agree...dying is part of living and BG did it the way he saw it so I’m guessing he was content. Not religious in any way but sure Rest In Peace. A meaningless death after a meaningless life is sad.

[GOTHBROOKS]

bye bye to the tiniest part of americas toxicity.

[johnniecakes]

RIP to a great American who contributed far more than he took. His influence will be sorely missed.

[FlashUNC]

A complicated figure, if one were inclined to give a charitable reading to his legacy.

An early champion of Civil Rights, but you can draw the through line from him directly to the televangelists of today who prey upon the elderly and the gullible. Encouraged inclusivity and understanding your fellow man, but advocated to Richard Nixon a bombing campaign in North Vietnam that could have killed as many as 1 million North Vietnamese at the height of the Vietnam war. Then there's the anti-Semitism, general misogyny, and Billy Graham Parkway is the worst road in Charlotte by a country mile.

But hey, in before the lock?

[bking]

At the level of the individual, who is not "complicated"? He lived through perhaps the most difficult times of our nations history. People say he went too far, and that he didn't go far enough. But go he did as he saw right to go; and too few of us even try.

[FlashUNC]

At the level of the individual, who is not "complicated"? He lived through perhaps the most difficult times of our nations history. People say he went too far, and that he didn't go far enough. But go he did as he saw right to go; and too few of us even try.

My less charitable reading is he was a media savvy and attention seeking carnival barker peddling a brand of Southern Protestantism that was and is a gross warping of the ideals set forth in the religion he espoused the world over; with a legacy of an army of Joel Osteens and TD Jakes doing a dimestore version of his brand of televangelism, getting rich off the backs of rubes. Oh, and a son who's an unrepentant, xenophobic bigot further poisoning the well of brotherhood and acceptance that's the bedrock of the religion the family has made a fortune from.

Complicated felt a bit more polite.

[saab2000]

My less charitable reading is he was a media savvy and attention seeking carnival barker peddling a brand of Southern Protestantism that was and is a gross warping of the ideals set forth in the religion he espoused the world over; with a legacy of an army of Joel Osteens and TD Jakes doing a dimestore version of his brand of televangelism, getting rich off the backs of rubes. Oh, and a son who's an unrepentant, xenophobic bigot further poisoning the well of brotherhood and acceptance that's the bedrock of the religion the family has made a fortune from.

Complicated felt a bit more polite.

I agree with this assessment. His own legacy is 'complicated', as you say. He had a certain charisma and tried to live and speak with dignity. Those whom he inspired have not done so.

It is impossible NOT to connect the dots between this movement and where we are today as a nation and that's not a compliment.

[akelman]

Great book that treats Graham respectfully, seriously, and critically:

https://www.amazon.com/One-Nation-Under-God-Corporate/dp/1501238213

[Seramount]

...he was a media savvy and attention seeking carnival barker...

a most succinct description.

his role in blurring the line between politics and religion is not a good legacy.

[Repack Rider]

I for one will not miss him. He did nothing to improve America.

[drewski]

A complicated figure, if one were inclined to give a charitable reading to his legacy.

An early champion of Civil Rights, but you can draw the through line from him directly to the televangelists of today who prey upon the elderly and the gullible. Encouraged inclusivity and understanding your fellow man, but advocated to Richard Nixon a bombing campaign in North Vietnam that could have killed as many as 1 million North Vietnamese at the height of the Vietnam war. Then there's the anti-Semitism, general misogyny, and Billy Graham Parkway is the worst road in Charlotte by a country mile.

But hey, in before the lock?

BG highway is ****ed. It should be closed and turn into a bikeway.

[54ny77]

Let's keep things on track. Did he prefer Shimano or Campy?

[GregL]

Let's keep things on track. Did he prefer Shimano or Campy?
Without doubt he preferred SRAM...

[timsmcm]

A great man of high regard. With a stellar background of high moral character. Never spoke bad of others, and very gracious. It's a shame that a good man has died and there are people speaking bad of him that did not even know him. Man this world is becoming a cynical and angry place.

[drewski]

A great man of high regard. With a stellar background of high moral character. Never spoke bad of others, and very gracious. It's a shame that a good man has died and there are people speaking bad of him that did not even know him. Man this world is becoming a cynical and angry place.

Unconscious bias. Your background, personal experiences, societal stereotypes and cultural context can have an impact on your decisions and actions without you realizing. Implicit or unconscious bias happens by our brains making incredibly quick judgments and assessments of people and situations without us realizing.

BG was a very polarizing figure. If we do not reconcile with our shadowy parts of our history we will never get to the point of achieving shared truth and reconciliation.

[charliedid]

Dollar Billy Graham

What a sham

[cloudguy]

It is impossible NOT to connect the dots between this movement and where we are today as a nation and that's not a compliment.

Matthew 7:15-20 NKJV

15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

[zmudshark]

https://twitter.com/TheTweetOfGod/status/966326470686552065

[Bruce K]

Historical figure with good points and bad.

Human.

Just felt it was worth noting.

Let’s keep it away from Bible quotes, etc

BK

[rnhood]

RIP to a great American who contributed far more than he took. His influence will be sorely missed.

Agree, he was a selfless man who contributed much to our entire global society. His focus was mankind, not any individual country.

[zmudshark]

Agree, he was a selfless man who contributed much to our entire global society. His focus was mankind, not any individual country.Yes, ask the Vietnamese. Or gays. Or women. Or Catholics. Or Jews.

[fa63]

Agree, he was a selfless man who contributed much to our entire global society.

A selfless man who accumulated $25+ million in wealth.

Did you guys know that he used to be a top Fuller brush salesman before becoming a televangelist? Makes sense.

[GOTHBROOKS]

jim bakker is still here to carry on his “good work”.

[FlashUNC]

Never spoke bad of others, and very gracious.

Spoke a lot of ill about others, just when the cameras weren't on:

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/17/us/billy-graham-responds-to-lingering-anger-over-1972-remarks-on-jews.html

[makoti]

My less charitable reading is he was a media savvy and attention seeking carnival barker peddling a brand of Southern Protestantism that was and is a gross warping of the ideals set forth in the religion he espoused the world over; with a legacy of an army of Joel Osteens and TD Jakes doing a dimestore version of his brand of televangelism, getting rich off the backs of rubes. Oh, and a son who's an unrepentant, xenophobic bigot further poisoning the well of brotherhood and acceptance that's the bedrock of the religion the family has made a fortune from.

Complicated felt a bit more polite.

That's a heck of a lot more polite than I would have been.

[gdw]

We made it to five pages before the thread dealing with Teddy Kennedy's death was closed. How long will this one last before the mods shut it down? Sorry about the drift, go back to bashing the dead.

[Matthew]

Ok, I'll play. Any of these so called good people constantly begging for money are turds. Period. Graham, Osteen, the Bakers, etc. Dead or alive they are disgusting.

[54ny77]

what's next, doping in cycling?

oh the humanity!

[Repack Rider]

Paraphrasing Mark Twain, I would never wish for anyone's death, but there are a few funerals I would enjoy attending.

[makoti]

We made it to five pages before the thread dealing with Teddy Kennedy's death was closed. How long will this one last before the mods shut it down? Sorry about the drift, go back to bashing the dead.

I was surprised when I saw Bruce started this one, given it's potential, but maybe he has faith in us. Not sure why... ;)
But to your last point, it's only bashing if it's not true.

[rousseau]

20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
That's homophobic.

[makoti]

That's homophobic.

Wha...?

[Bruce K]

Yeah....

I was hoping we could view him as a “historic” person whose passing was noteworthy.

BK

[rustychisel]

you got to be kidding

[cadence90]

Yeah....

I was hoping we could view him as a “historic” person whose passing was noteworthy.

BK

That is the litmus test? What is this, a joke?
.

[OtayBW]

For the transformation of a human being, I say: RIP.
For the transformation of Billy Graham, I say: Bye Felicia....

[bob heinatz]

I heard him preach twice. There is only one Billy Graham. He walked the walk and talked the talk.

[Bruce K]

So when a person who was newsworthy during their life passes we should just ignore it?

Rev. Graham meant nothing to me religion-wise (I have different beliefs), but having grown up in a time where he was very visible both on TV and at significant events, I found his passing worthy of note.

Sorry if that offended folks.

BK

[fa63]

I don't think it is that we are offended of your mention, but it is obvious that he wasn't universally liked so it is normal to get mixed reactions.

I don't think anyone has said anything so far that warrants a thread-lock.

[ptourkin]

If we really want a thread lock, someone should look up Vista Outdoor and see why it's trending. One page lock.

[makoti]

So when a person who was newsworthy during their life passes we should just ignore it?

Rev. Graham meant nothing to me religion-wise (I have different beliefs), but having grown up in a time where he was very visible both on TV and at significant events, I found his passing worthy of note.

Sorry if that offended folks.

BK

I don't think anyone was offended, but no question he was polarizing. As someone else said, religion & politics in one neat, little package.

[makoti]

If we really want a thread lock, someone should look up Vista Outdoor and see why it's trending. One page lock.

Crap. Now I have to toss my helmet...

[fa63]

Crap. Now I have to toss my helmet...

I can't seem to find these trending news on Vista Outdoor; help a brother out?

[Chris]

I don't think it is that we are offended of your mention, but it is obvious that he wasn't universally liked so it is normal to get mixed reactions.

I don't think anyone has said anything so far that warrants a thread-lock.

So, then there would be no mentions of people passing.

[Ralph]

Had a long time home in Montreat, NC. A really nice quiet place in USA outside of Asheville. Close to Blue Ridge Parkway. That's about all I liked about him. At least son Franklin rode a Harley and smoked some pot before he took over the family business of selling tapes and Sunday sermon outlines to church preachers. So sure RIP.

[Bruce K]

Vista Outdoor Brands Owns everal cycling equipment companies including Giro helmets.

They also own Smith & Wesson.

There is s growing call to boycott the cycling products because they own S&W. Some of these are coming by from their own sponsored athletes.

That’s the facts as I understand them but for sure THAT conversation will go off the rails REALLY fast.

BK

[makoti]

I can't seem to find these trending news on Vista Outdoor; help a brother out?

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/02/21/when-you-buy-these-bike-brands-youre-supporting-the-gun-lobby/

Not trending, but what I found. I stopped looking after this.

Oops. I see Bruce basically answered this. Well, link anyway

[fa63]

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/02/21/when-you-buy-these-bike-brands-youre-supporting-the-gun-lobby/

Not trending, but what I found. I stopped looking after this.

Oops. I see Bruce basically answered this. Well, link anyway

Thank you both, good to know...

[HenryA]

So now this is about gun control? Have you no shame?

Why do we keep getting hijacks that purposefully send the threads off into controversial subjects that are unrelated to the subject? Is it that cold a winter where you are? What stirs the hate for any view not in perfect congruence with your own?

There seems to be a small number of forum members who do this repeatedly. I’m calling for it to stop. It is as if you went to a party at someone’s home and then dropped your pants and pooped on their living room carpet. Life of the party! This is not your house and not your toilet. So stop it now.

Please go read this:
https://forums.thepaceline.net/announcement.php?f=3