Why Carbon Clinchers?

[dbnm]

Just out of curiosity, why are you using carbon clinchers?

Weight?

Better road feel?

Better braking?

[FlashUNC]

Because glue is weird and scary.

[beeatnik]

Looks

Stiffness

Weight (stiffness to weight)

In that order.

[PNW]

For me, I always have two wheel sets for my bike..I’m an outlier on here and never have had more than two bikes at a time. I have a set for 8 months out of the year and another for 3-4 depending on weather.

I picked up a set of carbon clinchers because of weight, slight aero factor (bora 35s), stiffness, convenience, and ease to work with compared to tubulars...depending on tire choice...ride just as nice as tubulars IMO. Unless you have the time, patience, money to pay a shop, or you’re seriously racing...I prefer clinchers.


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[oldpotatoe]

For me, I always have two wheel sets for my bike..I’m an outlier on here and never have had more than two bikes at a time. I have a set for 8 months out of the year and another for 3-4 depending on weather.

I picked up a set of carbon clinchers because of weight, slight aero factor (bora 35s), stiffness, convenience, and ease to work with compared to tubulars...depending on tire choice...ride just as nice as tubulars IMO. Unless you have the time, patience, money to pay a shop, or you’re seriously racing...I prefer clinchers.


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Hope this doesn't go down that 'tubulars or clinchers' rabbit hole...Hope it will stay 'carbon clinchers or aluminum clinchers'..goods and others...why each or why carbon, if you are a clincher kinda guy.

I've built more than a few and 'some' carbon hoops are really a breeze to build, 'some' not-so-much...BUT IMHO, for the weight and $ of carbon hoops/clincher, not sure I 'get it'...compared to some really nice aluminum clincher rims...DT411/511, as examples.

[redir]

I'm not sure what you are getting at in this thread but my guess is that I agree. For me personally expensive wheels are for racing and racing is always done on tubulars so yeah I never saw the point in carbon clinchers. But these days you can get used carbon clinchers for a song it seems. If I did get a set of carbon clinchers I would want aluminum brake tracks so I would not have to deal with switching pads which is something I normally reserve for race day. I'd probably still reserve them for the local training race rides but that's just me.

[earlfoss]

For racing I have run tubulars forever, but for certain ones this season I'll be on carbon clinchers (Aeolus 5 TLR) set up tubeless.

I like the little extra insurance against flats on some courses. Many around here won on tubeless last season so I don't think the extra weight is a liability. I've been training on this setup enough to feel confident in this plan.

[dbnm]

I recently purchased the new Mavic Ksyrium Pro UST wheels. They are light and aluminum and have no issues that carbon clinchers have.

I chose those over the Mavic Cosmic Pro Carbon SL UST not just because of the price but more I just could not figure out the difference and why I would need carbon wheels.

[djg21]

Hope this doesn't go down that 'tubulars or clinchers' rabbit hole...Hope it will stay 'carbon clinchers or aluminum clinchers'..goods and others...why each or why carbon, if you are a clincher kinda guy.

I've built more than a few and 'some' carbon hoops are really a breeze to build, 'some' not-so-much...BUT IMHO, for the weight and $ of carbon hoops/clincher, not sure I 'get it'...compared to some really nice aluminum clincher rims...DT411/511, as examples.

I use a set of Zipp 808s on my TT Bike. I occasionally put them on my road bike, equipped with rim brakes, when I want to go downhill in the rain and be unable to stop. If I get really daring, I keep the latex tubes I use to TT on the rims, and ride long descents constantly on the brakes to see how hot I can get the rims before the tubes blow. /sarcasm off.

Carbon rims are heralding the ultimate switch to disc brakes on road bikes, with which braking in the wet and overheating are not issues. I agree with Old Potato that on a road bike equipped with rim brakes, there are good aluminum rims that perform as well and in some conditions better than carbon wheels. IMO, the only benefit of carbon is the ability to build lighter weight aero wheels. They make no sense for everyday training wheels.

[Mark McM]

Why Carbon?

Although people tend to rationalize the selection of carbon for reasons of performance ("It's lighter!", "It's more aerodynamic!"), the real reason is likely because it is what's new and in fashion.


Why Clinchers?

Because they are perceived (and with generally good reason) to be easier and more convenient, both for initial installation and for on-road repair. Also sometimes for performance reasons (they have become the best choice for rolling resistance and aerodynamics reasons for certain events, particularly Time Trials/Triathlons).


Many reach the conclusion that the answer to both questions is carbon clinchers. However ...

In many cases, when you combine two products, instead of ending up with the best features of both, you end up with the worst features of both. In many ways, this is the case with carbon clinchers. They are often nearly as heavy as aluminum clinchers, but without the consistent braking and good heat management of aluminum clinchers. Aerodynamics appears to be a wash.

Instead, a better answer to both questions might be a hybrid rim, such as on the HED Jet series and the Swiss Side Hadrons, which combines an aluminum rim extrusion with a carbon fairing. These wheels provide the same aerodynamics as full carbon clinchers at roughly the same weight, combined with the reliable braking of aluminum rims. The HED Jet series is also available with their proprietary 'Black" rim treatment, which provides outstanding (and long lived) braking even in wet conditions.

[oldpotatoe]

Why Carbon?

Although people tend to rationalize the selection of carbon for reasons of performance ("It's lighter!", "It's more aerodynamic!"), the real reason is likely because it is what's new and in fashion.


Why Clinchers?

Because they are perceived (and with generally good reason) to be easier and more convenient, both for initial installation and for on-road repair. Also sometimes for performance reasons (they have become the best choice for rolling resistance and aerodynamics reasons for certain events, particularly Time Trials/Triathlons).


Many reach the conclusion that the answer to both questions is carbon clinchers. However ...

In many cases, when you combine two products, instead of ending up with the best features of both, you end up with the worst features of both. In many ways, this is the case with carbon clinchers. They are often nearly as heavy as aluminum clinchers, but without the consistent braking and good heat management of aluminum clinchers. Aerodynamics appears to be a wash.

Instead, a better answer to both questions might be a hybrid rim, such as on the HED Jet series and the Swiss Side Hadrons, which combines an aluminum rim extrusion with a carbon fairing. These wheels provide the same aerodynamics as full carbon clinchers at roughly the same weight, combined with the reliable braking of aluminum rims. The HED Jet series is also available with their proprietary 'Black" rim treatment, which provides outstanding (and long lived) braking even in wet conditions.

Carbon fairings on aluminum rims a fairly old idea..actually, but I know you knew this.

[ergott]

Carbon clinchers give you more aerodynamic rims and stronger builds than you can get with alloy (assuming lower spoke count that's typical). Weight isn't really their strong point. Braking depends on who you talk to. I think the better rims currently available are excellent.

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[John H.]

For rim brake? The answer is vague for me. Carbon clinchers do not brake as well as their aluminum counterparts. Especially if wet/damp- At least for me.
So I would say only slight weight or aerodynamics.

Disc? No drawbacks other than cost.

[crankles]

I find them to be stronger, lighter and only slightly more expensive than aluminum rims.

Now the details. Experience is limited to CX Disc wheels. Training and racing.

Comparison experience is between the Pacenti Sl25 Disc only rim and the Light Bicycle RM29C06.

Pacenti SL25. ~460gm, $90.
RM29C06 ~350gm, $162.

I found the pacenti aluminum to be soft. The rims barely lasted a season of training and a few races. Soooo may dents.

I relaced them with the carbon rims from Light-Bicycle. Built up easy. I babied them a bit at first to be honest, then in one race I hit a rock to hard I burped down to about 8 psi. I was sure I cracked the rim so I rode the thing to the pit, not caring...figuring it was toast. Nope. Not a mark on it. Wheel was straight as ever. After that I stopped babying them and have ridden them pretty hard. Two seasons and still like new. Buitl up a 2nd set for the pit bike.

I like em for the purpose stated.

[ripvanrando]

Stronger, lighter, more aerodynamic.

[bigbill]

I bought a set of rim brake Boyd Carbon 60's in December. I live in flat to rolling terrain so they'll be good here. I've only taken them out on one ride so far because winter, but I intentionally chose a day with big crosswinds and they were good. The downside, brake pads, you need to use the correct pads and setting up a bike with those pads means you don't ride alloy wheels again without changing the pads. I'm fortunate to have several bikes.

I've got a new set of wheels from Oldpatatoe with DT RR511 rims and so far they're all that. I also have an old set of Cosmic Carbones that I can put in play as well because they have aluminum rims.

[pasadena]

CC-
Aero
Looks
Convenience
Weight

CC vs. Ctubs
Convenience
Practicality

CC vs Alloy Clinchers
Aero
Looks
Weight

[glepore]

Until you start looking at wheels in the 60mm range, a good aero alu (ie A33's or the similar Boyds) test as aero as most of the popular carbons except at extreme yaw. In exchange you get better braking, particularly in the wet, and less worry about blowouts in the mountains.

OTOH, carbons can be cheaper if sourced direct, are stout as heck, and some folks prefer the look.

[bshell]

Clincher, always.

Carbon was the first to 'go wide', which is what I was looking for.

And now tubeless. Pressure so low it seems weird...(65/60). I'm #185.

Very strong and very easy to build.

Stay true despite bad roads and some big hits that would dent aluminum.


:( Wet weather breaking still pretty awful even with textured track...

[btanner]

In a word, convenience. Over time, carbon clincher technology, including that for road tubeless has made clinchers an arguably better option than carbon rims made for tubulars.

[MattTuck]

marketing.

[bshell]

After all of the accounts of user experience?

[djg21]

The question was why carbon clinchers over aluminum clinchers? It’s not a clincher v. tubular debate.

[DRZRM]

That is a striking difference in weight. As I mentioned in another thread,
I'm building a 32 hole disc wheelset, and was leaning towards widish alloy,
but those Lightweights are available in 32 hole (I have some nice hubs,
I know I could go lower spoke count) and are light weight (go figure).
I'm no WW but I like a nice light wheel as much as the next guy,
and for disc, I don't see much of a problem.

I find them to be stronger, lighter and only slightly more expensive than aluminum rims.

Now the details. Experience is limited to CX Disc wheels. Training and racing.

Comparison experience is between the Pacenti Sl25 Disc only rim and the Light Bicycle RM29C06.

Pacenti SL25. ~460gm, $90.
RM29C06 ~350gm, $162.

I found the pacenti aluminum to be soft. The rims barely lasted a season of training and a few races. Soooo may dents.

I relaced them with the carbon rims from Light-Bicycle. Built up easy. I babied them a bit at first to be honest, then in one race I hit a rock to hard I burped down to about 8 psi. I was sure I cracked the rim so I rode the thing to the pit, not caring...figuring it was toast. Nope. Not a mark on it. Wheel was straight as ever. After that I stopped babying them and have ridden them pretty hard. Two seasons and still like new. Buitl up a 2nd set for the pit bike.

I like em for the purpose stated.

[crankles]

That is a striking difference in weight. As I mentioned in another thread,
I'm building a 32 hole disc wheelset, and was leaning towards widish alloy,
but those Lightweights are available in 32 hole (I have some nice hubs,
I know I could go lower spoke count) and are light weight (go figure).
I'm no WW but I like a nice light wheel as much as the next guy,
and for disc, I don't see much of a problem.

They now make a 280gm flyweight rim at for 269. I weigh 75kg in the off season, and about 72 kg when racing. I'm tempted to try a set...been that impressed. That would equate to about 1260 gm 28h tubeless wheelset..
( x-rays +brass nips). Wow.

[PNW]

They now make a 280gm flyweight rim at for 269. I weigh 75kg in the off season, and about 72 kg when racing. I'm tempted to try a set...been that impressed. That would equate to about 1260 gm 28h tubeless wheelset..

( x-rays +brass nips). Wow.



Holy moly..what hubs?


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[Mark McM]

Carbon clinchers give you more aerodynamic rims and stronger builds than you can get with alloy (assuming lower spoke count that's typical). Weight isn't really their strong point. Braking depends on who you talk to. I think the better rims currently available are excellent.

As I noted before, carbon vs. aluminum is not a binary option. Hybrid carbon/aluminum rims can often provide the best combination of weight/aerodynamics/braking.

Take for example, this article on a test between a variety of carbon & carbon/alloy clinchers:

https://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/news/article/best-deep-aero-wheels-49390/


In this test of 10 wheels, the HED Jet 6/9 Plus wheelset, which uses an alloy rim extrusion with a carbon fairing, compares very favorably to full carbon clincher rims. In fact, the HED wheels were the 2nd most aero, and the 4th lightest - not to mention the 2nd least expensive. They didn't test braking, but since the HED Jet is the only one with alloy brake tracks, it is likely to be the best braking as well (The HED Jets are also available with their proprietary 'Black' surface treatment, which definitely beats all the full carbon rims in braking, especially in the wet.)

Given the clear performance weight/aero performance parity of hybrid carbon/alloy rims, as well as their superior braking, I don't understand the apparent snobbery about this rims. Is it because they typically cost less than full carbon rims, and people just assume that price = performance?

[MattTuck]

...I don't understand the apparent snobbery about this rims. Is it because they typically cost less than full carbon rims, and people just assume that price = performance?

Yes :)

[crankles]

28h DT 240s.

I used the wheelbuilder.com weight calculator and fudged the rim weight using the enve 2.2 tubular rim @287gm. ...

http://www.wheelbuilder.com/wheel-weight-calculator.html

Holy moly..what hubs?


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[ergott]

As I noted before, carbon vs. aluminum is not a binary option. Hybrid carbon/aluminum rims can often provide the best combination of weight/aerodynamics/braking.


I didn't mention them specifically, but yes hybrid rims offer similar benefits to what I mention. You are limited to specific drillings so no custom options if that's important.

[54ny77]

because they came with the bike. :banana:

[fogrider]

Given the clear performance weight/aero performance parity of hybrid carbon/alloy rims, as well as their superior braking, I don't understand the apparent snobbery about this rims. Is it because they typically cost less than full carbon rims, and people just assume that price = performance?

I think it's more of a holdover from when they first did this. Then it really didn't save much weight and it came apart. Not sure how well it's going to hold up in the new formulation. I have buddy that broke a spoke and the wheel (rear) went out of true. It had to be rough trued to get home. Last month I broke a spoke on a carbon rim, also on a rear wheel. It barely went out of true. I was able to continue and finish my ride, no problem. I did have to bend my the broken spoke to wrap around another spoke so it didn't hit my frame.


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[pasadena]

Given the clear performance weight/aero performance parity of hybrid carbon/alloy rims, as well as their superior braking, I don't understand the apparent snobbery about this rims. Is it because they typically cost less than full carbon rims, and people just assume that price = performance?

It's because they are ugly and the two piece design lacks a certain elegance of design.
Superficially, they just don't look as nice. That's probably the largest factor.

Other companies with similar designs don't sell as well either.

I agree, HED makes good stuff

[NYCfixie]

If you are going to add hybrid into this thread, Shimano wheels should be added. The DuraAce and RS80/81/700 hybrid Carbon/Alloy are really hard to beat at their price points. They are damn good clincher wheels.

[beeatnik]

Aesthetics: They look great on modern race bikas

Value/High Opportunity Cost: Spending $60/wheelset or 1 hour gluing tires to rims is a waste of my financial resources (and I ain't Carlos Slim, but an hour spent doing something productive is, ya know...)

Resale: The punters aren't trying to buy tubulars. Compare resale between enve clincher with r45 and enve tubular with r45. One is essentially unsaleable

That said, I did win a race once on a flat tubular. Ya, great for me and my retirement fund.

[Clean39T]

If you are going to add hybrid into this thread, Shimano wheels should be added. The DuraAce and RS80/81/700 hybrid Carbon/Alloy are really hard to beat at their price points. They are damn good clincher wheels.

Shimano ones are very different from HED's though. The HED's are literally a piece of flimsy plastic that looks easily destroyed and can fill up with water/dirt.. The Shimano ones are very sturdy and structural - at least the one's I've seen.

[NYCfixie]

Shimano ones are very different from HED's though. The HED's are literally a piece of flimsy plastic that looks easily destroyed and can fill up with water/dirt.. The Shimano ones are very sturdy and structural - at least the one's I've seen.

I rode the RS-81 C24 and C35 for over a year and loved them. Difficult to compare because everything I owned or rode before them was 32 spoke alloy - most recently DT Swiss 350 hubs to DT Swiss R440 rims before the Shimanos wheels. I only got rid of the Shimano wheels because they were not going wide anytime soon so I got a pair of Boyd Altamonts. And, I only recently sold my BNIB "backup set" of RS-81s to a friend of a forum member.

Shimano, Campagnolo, and Fulcrum wheels are amazing but those Shimano Carbon/Alloys do take it up a notch (apologies to Emeril). Lighter weight and great braking.

[ltwtsculler91]

Shimano ones are very different from HED's though. The HED's are literally a piece of flimsy plastic that looks easily destroyed and can fill up with water/dirt.. The Shimano ones are very sturdy and structural - at least the one's I've seen.

I believe on the Shimano clinchers the carbon is structural and the aluminum brake track is the add on, whereas for HED it is the opposite: an aluminum rim plus a carbon add on

[biker72]

Is there such a thing as a quiet carbon clincher?? I can hear those coming a mile away.