stupid question- vintage cable setup

[zennmotion]

I built up dozens of bikes back in the day but my memory is rusty- I'm building a stupid old man's early 80s race bike l'eroica style with over the bar exposed brake cables, with rear housing running along the top tube all the way to the caliper. Of course the housing color has to be matchy (red, natchy...) so I'm just buying enough to complete the job. Since I'm math challenged, is 2.5 meters enough brake cable to do the job both front/rear brakes? Also, I'm trying to remember but non-indexed downtube shifters used the same cable housing, right? Housing was housing back in those days, no difference between brake/shifter housing, right? My 16 year old self would have known this, but now my grown up head is full of useless information, like how to calculate a mortgage or number of calories in pizza with no toppings...Be kind in your responses, and thanks!:beer:

[Ralph]

I remember those days. Brake housing was larger than friction shifting housing. Brake cables also thicker (like now) than shift cables. Cable and housing size hasn't changed a lot. You might be able to use 4.5 MM housing for both, but shifting and brake cable size different....like before.

[Kontact]

A standard inner brake cable is 1.7m long, so obviously the longest your rear housing could be is less than that. And the front half of that. So 2.5m of housing should be more than sufficient for anything but a giant's bike (but not a Giant bike).

If you want to actually measure it out more accurately, use a brake cable as it is similarly rigid like the housing.

[Mark McM]

I remember those days. Brake housing was larger than friction shifting housing. Brake cables also thicker (like now) than shift cables. Cable and housing size hasn't changed a lot. You might be able to use 4.5 MM housing for both, but shifting and brake cable size different....like before.

I remember that brake and shift housing were the same size (5 mm) and used the same ferrules and cable fittings. Even in the indexing era, derailleur housing was the same size for many years. But 5 mm compressionless derailleur housing is very stiff (in bending), so later derailleur housing diameter was reduced.

[rccardr]

You will be fine using brake cable housing for the small loop between the rear derailleur and the rearmost cable srop on the chainstay, especially with friction shifting. Remember those old wound spring dealios we used to use there? They still work fine with friction, too. Derailleur housing is also OK, but unless truly matchy-matchy better to use the brake housing.

[Kontact]

Another thing that changed was the use of ferrules. Older derailleurs and frame housing stops were not wide enough to accept them and the housing was inserted directly into the hole. The inbetween solution was stepped ferrules. Now we have thinner housing, thicker walled ferrules and larger cable housing stop holes in frames and derailleurs. Try to make modern cable and ferrules work with old friction derailleurs and you'll see how things have changed.


And there were also the 5.5mm MTB brake housings at one time that used oversized wires.

[zennmotion]

Thanks people, I also need to check in on breaking the velominati rules regarding bar tape color. Red frame, yellow lettering, black turbo saddle---- bar tape? 80s was the era of some pretty egregious paint jobs and haircuts so I'm thinking yellow tape works despite the rules, right?

[Mark McM]

bar tape?

Tressostar cloth tape or Benotto Cello tape. Both available in a variety of colors.

[choke]

As Doc said, the spiral metal housing looks 'right' for the rear derailleur. You can find it on eBay fairly easily.

http://cycle.ciocctoo.com/frej6.jpg

Thanks people, I also need to check in on breaking the velominati rules regarding bar tape color. Red frame, yellow lettering, black turbo saddle---- bar tape? 80s was the era of some pretty egregious paint jobs and haircuts so I'm thinking yellow tape works despite the rules, right?It's hard to say without seeing the bike but yellow likely works.

[zennmotion]

Yeah, I hear you on the tressostar and benotto tape as a correct choice. But I hated them then and even more now. The bike won't be a complete garage queen, I will put some miles on it, and even back in the day I was using cork tape if I remember correctly, so probably something generic and cheap like cinelli, or maybe, maybe Benotto as a second layer. The stuff was shiny pretty, but it really sucked with sweaty hands- in those days foam pipe insulation was popular for "touring" bikes and phreds probably because the common tapes were so awful. Cloth tape never felt good, and I avoid gloves in warm weather.

[zennmotion]

I'm traveling now so I don't have pics yet but here's the frame from Ebay. Stupid impulsive purchase, but I have a first generation Dura Ace kit from my old race bike still in a box and can't let go of it, despite selling off the old Marinoni frameset years ago, so this is a nostalgic replacement. The old one was blue but red works too. The listing says early 90s, but the serial number indicates 1984, which I'm happy about since my original frame was purchased used in 1983, so a year or two older than that.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Marinoni-Columbus-Steel-Vintage-Frame-with-extra-decal-set-56cm/292391635729?hash=item4413e64b11:g:oYoAAOSw-09aAfrt

[taz-t]

Thanks people, I also need to check in on breaking the velominati rules regarding bar tape color. Red frame, yellow lettering, black turbo saddle---- bar tape? 80s was the era of some pretty egregious paint jobs and haircuts so I'm thinking yellow tape works despite the rules, right?

Black saddle, white tape, black or white housing. <-will always look better even if you manage to coordinate other colors.

Forget the silly online rules, but do look at the best looking bikes from the era.

[Kontact]

Yeah, I hear you on the tressostar and benotto tape as a correct choice. But I hated them then and even more now. The bike won't be a complete garage queen, I will put some miles on it, and even back in the day I was using cork tape if I remember correctly, so probably something generic and cheap like cinelli, or maybe, maybe Benotto as a second layer. The stuff was shiny pretty, but it really sucked with sweaty hands- in those days foam pipe insulation was popular for "touring" bikes and phreds probably because the common tapes were so awful. Cloth tape never felt good, and I avoid gloves in warm weather.

Get some of the shiny, leather like tapered closed cell foam tape. That's what everyone used by the mid '80s, and it came out in '75 from Bike Ribbon.

[zennmotion]

Another thing that changed was the use of ferrules. Older derailleurs and frame housing stops were not wide enough to accept them and the housing was inserted directly into the hole. The inbetween solution was stepped ferrules. Now we have thinner housing, thicker walled ferrules and larger cable housing stop holes in frames and derailleurs. Try to make modern cable and ferrules work with old friction derailleurs and you'll see how things have changed.


And there were also the 5.5mm MTB brake housings at one time that used oversized wires.

Thanks, I bought 2.5m of 5mm brake housing- cheap stuff that I assume is pretty much the same as vintage housing. I may splurge on some good smooth modern stainless wires though, since nobody will know the difference! My recollection was that the wire spiral rear derailleur housing was campy only, I think suntour and shimano used a short length of the regular plastic coated housing. I couldn't find or afford campy at the time and the early shimano and suntour derailleurs and brakes worked better at that time anyway! At least according the cool kids who actually raced with it :fight:

[Kontact]

Thanks, I bought 2.5m of 5mm brake housing- cheap stuff that I assume is pretty much the same as vintage housing. I may splurge on some good smooth modern stainless wires though, since nobody will know the difference! My recollection was that the wire spiral rear derailleur housing was campy only, I think suntour and shimano used a short length of the regular plastic coated housing. I couldn't find or afford campy at the time and the early shimano and suntour derailleurs and brakes worked better at that time anyway! At least according the cool kids who actually raced with it :fight:

Yup. The '70s racers I've known swore by Cyclone for cost to performance ratio.

I've been playing with a Campy Nuovo Gran Sport derailleur - 1960s tech that is little different from '80s C-Record.

[zennmotion]

Get some of the shiny, leather like tapered closed cell foam tape. That's what everyone used by the mid '80s, s and it came out in '75 from Bike Ribbon.

Actually I just found what may be the last roll of Zevlin Big40 tape in the universe, in yellow. Wrong era but it looks right and it feels so super good, I've used it on all my bikes for years and now it's recently and sadly gone forever, I'm hoarding a bunch in black and white, and no, I'm not telling anyone where my stash is.

[oldpotatoe]

Thanks people, I also need to check in on breaking the velominati rules regarding bar tape color. Red frame, yellow lettering, black turbo saddle---- bar tape? 80s was the era of some pretty egregious paint jobs and haircuts so I'm thinking yellow tape works despite the rules, right?

Just make sure the front brake housing goes IN FRONT of the rear brake housing above the handlebars..not behind like on a 'aero' brake housing rig..:eek:

[zennmotion]

Just make sure the front brake housing goes IN FRONT of the rear brake housing above the handlebars..not behind like on a 'aero' brake housing rig..:eek:

Best advice in this thread, thanks. Now, despite my concern for the rules, I am a rebel--- brakes set up moto-style with rear lever on the left, from years of racing CX and not wanting to rewire my brain back and forth to typical road bike setup. Also thus allowing for my very suave signature CX style slow rolling dismount at the coffee shop so I'm unwilling to switch to "normal". What say you on the housing arrangement up front? There are few others whose advice I would trust with this question...