Paul Mini Moto set up tips

[p nut]

Installed a set of mini motos yesterday and I am having a hard time setting it up. Actual brake arm install went fine. Brake pad set up, I had to get the pads super close to the rim, unlike canti brakes I've had, but that was easy enough. So I thought I had it all set up well, but brakes themselves don't feel that great. Feels very mushy. It doesn't take much lever travel to make contact, but then the lever goes almost all the way to the bar. It just doesn't feel solid at all.

I cut the cables straight and made sure they were all seated right. I can't think of why I can't get it to feel more solid. Maybe there are other issues I'm overlooking, but both the front and rear feel exactly the same. Both are set up on SRAM Rival levers.

If this is how they're supposed to feel, I will probably go back to Avid Ult canti brakes.

[idrinkwater]

it's not how they're supposed to feel. My minimotos are more crisp feeling than my Shimano hydraulic road setup.

[p nut]

Well, that's no good, then. I must have done something wrong.

[DfCas]

Have you ridden the bike?

[Ken Robb]

Have you ridden the bike?

This is what I was wondering too. Is it possible that very light pressure after the pads hit the rim is all that is required for max braking and pulling the lever farther just compresses the pad?

If you have both front and rear brakes are they set up the same and are the results the same?

[ergott]

Compressionless housing helps a lot.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[charliedid]

What levers are you using, I assume they are short pull?

[ragamuffin]

Yeah def not right, the ones I had before were very solid feeling. But agree with what others have suggested; first make sure you're using short pull levers, compressionless housing helps (but shouldn't be necessary to get good feeling brakes). Some other things to look into:

- Make sure you don't have any crazy tight bends or kinks in your housing
- Make sure your cable is cinched down tight enough (I've had this happen to me before with the minis where the lever was going all the way to the bar only to realize that the cable was slipping a little at the brake)
- I've found that increasing spring tension can help too
- Potentially move the pads a little out (maybe too close to the rim?)

[p nut]

I had originally just rode around the neighborhood. So I didn’t do any high speed/downhill tests. I rode a few miles today. First attempt to stop from 25mph or so. Rear tire skid. Almost too much up front. Wow, these things are TOUCHY! Worse than any disc brakes I’ve had. I don’t know if I can get used to the apparent lack of modulation. I will have to move the pads out a little to see if that helps. Maybe toe it in a bit more as well.

I am using Sram Rival levers as origibally stated. Thanks for all the inputs.

[Ken Robb]

I had originally just rode around the neighborhood. So I didn’t do any high speed/downhill tests. I rode a few miles today. First attempt to stop from 25mph or so. Rear tire skid. Almost too much up front. Wow, these things are TOUCHY! Worse than any disc brakes I’ve had. I don’t know if I can get used to the apparent lack of modulation. I will have to move the pads out a little to see if that helps. Maybe toe it in a bit more as well.

I am using Sram Rival levers as origibally stated. Thanks for all the inputs.

This sounds like you have levers which provide too much leverage and too little travel.

[p nut]

This sounds like you have levers which provide too much leverage and too little travel.

That very well could be. Or incompetent mechanic (me). Probably both.

I may try the TRP mini’s.

[rePhil]

Did you check Paul's YouTube Channel?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACcnYi_uQIs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHTuDWWBgQs

[charliedid]

That very well could be. Or incompetent mechanic (me). Probably both.

I may try the TRP mini’s.

Levers are fine.

How much spring tension do you have?

[p nut]

Did you check Paul's YouTube Channel?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACcnYi_uQIs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHTuDWWBgQs

Yes, looked at the vids. Thanks.

Levers are fine.

How much spring tension do you have?

Not much. Going off of the 3 notches on the canti posts, I would say probably equal to the top notch/lightest setting.

As you and ragamuffin suggested, I will try increasing the tension and moving the pads out. Thank you.

[DfCas]

Since Mini V'a are too powerful for my tastes and cantis are somewhat weak, I've been thinking about using travel agents on Mini v's. Has anyone done this? It would allow more rim clearance and take a little of the bite out of them. if no response here I'll start a seperate thread.

[p nut]

Since Mini V'a are too powerful for my tastes and cantis are somewhat weak, I've been thinking about using travel agents on Mini v's. Has anyone done this? It would allow more rim clearance and take a little of the bite out of them. if no response here I'll start a seperate thread.

I'm also wondering if there is a more simple solution (plus I don't like the look of those travel agents. :)). What about different pads? Harder wearing, less grabby kind. I might call up Kool Stop to see what options they've got.

[rheosibal]

Minimoto's are finnicky, and I've found the provided instructions/videos to be a hit or miss. I currently have these brakes on 3 separate bikes, all with different levers (Sram Rival included), so hopefully my instructions may help.

Starting from scratch, with the brake cable loosened.

1) Loosen the spring tension on both sides so the brake pads may sit on the brake track (essentially leaning on the rim)

2) Loosen the barrel adjuster on top of the noodle so that it's almost completely unscrewed (counterclockwise)

3) While the brake pads are sitting on both sides of the rim bed, secure the brake cable

4) Tighten the barrel adjuster (clockwise) a few notches to give the brakes some play (they both rotate side to side).

5) Adjust the spring tension on each side of the brake until the pads are equal distance from the rim. (I've found that the more tension, the better. Especially with drop bar levers)

6) Adjust the barrel adjuster until you've found the right amount of modulation.

If I'm not clear, let me know :crap:
I can get you photos later if you need.

'23 Edit:
Additional tip (not required for setup) requires a bit more effort but is 100% worth it.

- Use a road brake shoe (cartridge) instead of v-brake pads. A smaller, stiffer pad will help eliminate brake shudder, the pads are cheaper to replace, and the unit will allow you to use other brake pad compounds. Road brake shoes traditionally use a nut within the housing, so you will have to replace it with a bolt from the v-brake shoes.

[rheosibal]

Maybe toe it in a bit more as well.

Also, definitely toe them in a bit. Once the pad/rim is wet, I've found that toeing(?) them in gets rid of the squeal.

[p nut]

Minimoto's are finnicky, and I've found the provided instructions/videos to be a hit or miss. I currently have these brakes on 3 separate bikes, all with different levers (Sram Rival included), so hopefully my instructions may help.

Starting from scratch, with the brake cable loosened.

1) Loosen the spring tension on both sides so the brake pads may sit on the brake track (essentially leaning on the rim)

2) Loosen the barrel adjuster on top of the noodle so that it's almost completely unscrewed (counterclockwise)

3) While the brake pads are sitting on both sides of the rim bed, secure the brake cable

4) Tighten the barrel adjuster (clockwise) a few notches to give the brakes some play (they both rotate side to side).

5) Adjust the spring tension on each side of the brake until the pads are equal distance from the rim. (I've found that the more tension, the better. Especially with drop bar levers)

6) Adjust the barrel adjuster until you've found the right amount of modulation.

If I'm not clear, let me know :crap:
I can get you photos later if you need.

No, very clearly written. I’ll try it! Thanks.

[charliedid]

Yeah, more tension and you will love them.

Well said rheosiba

[11.4]

Reviving this post with a couple questions:

I just got a pair of Mini Motos cheap from a friend and am installing them on an old All City Nature Boy (canti version, purple and white) as a winter fixie. My two problems:

1. The Paul sleeves have only about a 2-3 mm recess in the sleeves that fit over the canti studs on the frame, but the studs are 8-9 mm tall. This leaves a weird gap with bare metal showing. There's no clear way that the sleeves will move on farther with that shallow recess.

2. Using them with HED Belgium 25+ rims, the front fit fine but the rear at the lowest shoe position still clips the base of the sidewall. More distance from the braking surface would help (it would give me more room for the brake arms to swing around and thus lower the point where the pads hit the braking surfaces) but there isn't much hardware to remove there and it's already using the long thin KoolStop pads on posts.

Anyone had these kinds of problems? Track is my thing and if I have to install anything on the bike that actually needs adjustment, I start to perspire.

[tellyho]

Since Mini V'a are too powerful for my tastes and cantis are somewhat weak, I've been thinking about using travel agents on Mini v's. Has anyone done this? It would allow more rim clearance and take a little of the bite out of them. if no response here I'll start a seperate thread.

Yep. As a small-handed person, it's a great setup. Gives you a little more rim clearance over straight mini vs. LOTS of power. Have set up both bikes I owned with mini Vs this way. Downside: IMO travel agents don't look great.

[GOTHBROOKS]

is there a better brake pad for minimotos than the thinlines paul supplies?

[slowpoke]

It will be dependent on the location of the braze-ons for your frame.

Some people could fit Kool-Stop Cross Pads - https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=279827

I had trouble fitting those because the pads would nearly hit the sidewalls of my tires.

[robt57]

The Paul sleeves have only about a 2-3 mm recess in the sleeves that fit over the canti studs on the frame, but the studs are 8-9 mm tall. This leaves a weird gap with bare metal showing. There's no clear way that the sleeves will move on farther with that shallow recess.

Cut a 23mm butyle tube into short boot pieces..

[C40_guy]

This is timely...I have two sets of Mini Motos to install, on my LiteSpeed Blue Ridge and Colnago Prestige.

[lorenbike]

Reviving this post with a couple questions:

I just got a pair of Mini Motos cheap from a friend and am installing them on an old All City Nature Boy (canti version, purple and white) as a winter fixie. My two problems:

1. The Paul sleeves have only about a 2-3 mm recess in the sleeves that fit over the canti studs on the frame, but the studs are 8-9 mm tall. This leaves a weird gap with bare metal showing. There's no clear way that the sleeves will move on farther with that shallow recess.

2. Using them with HED Belgium 25+ rims, the front fit fine but the rear at the lowest shoe position still clips the base of the sidewall. More distance from the braking surface would help (it would give me more room for the brake arms to swing around and thus lower the point where the pads hit the braking surfaces) but there isn't much hardware to remove there and it's already using the long thin KoolStop pads on posts.

Anyone had these kinds of problems? Track is my thing and if I have to install anything on the bike that actually needs adjustment, I start to perspire.


I've run mini motos on my AC spacehorse for a few years and never had any issues with the exposed brake post.

I also run narrow rims (basically stock Shimano road rims). I thought I read years ago that mini v brakes work better with narrower rims for arm leverage than more modern wide rims but I could be making that up.

I've always just used the thin cool stop pads.

[MikeD]

Installed a set of mini motos yesterday and I am having a hard time setting it up. Actual brake arm install went fine. Brake pad set up, I had to get the pads super close to the rim, unlike canti brakes I've had, but that was easy enough. So I thought I had it all set up well, but brakes themselves don't feel that great. Feels very mushy. It doesn't take much lever travel to make contact, but then the lever goes almost all the way to the bar. It just doesn't feel solid at all.

I cut the cables straight and made sure they were all seated right. I can't think of why I can't get it to feel more solid. Maybe there are other issues I'm overlooking, but both the front and rear feel exactly the same. Both are set up on SRAM Rival levers.

If this is how they're supposed to feel, I will probably go back to Avid Ult canti brakes.


In my experience, SRAM levers have too much leverage/ little cable pull to work with mini V type brakes.

It also depends upon how high or low the brake bosses are on your frame and fork.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[tctyres]

Reviving this post with a couple questions:

I just got a pair of Mini Motos cheap from a friend and am installing them on an old All City Nature Boy (canti version, purple and white) as a winter fixie. My two problems:

1. The Paul sleeves have only about a 2-3 mm recess in the sleeves that fit over the canti studs on the frame, but the studs are 8-9 mm tall. This leaves a weird gap with bare metal showing. There's no clear way that the sleeves will move on farther with that shallow recess.

2. Using them with HED Belgium 25+ rims, the front fit fine but the rear at the lowest shoe position still clips the base of the sidewall. More distance from the braking surface would help (it would give me more room for the brake arms to swing around and thus lower the point where the pads hit the braking surfaces) but there isn't much hardware to remove there and it's already using the long thin KoolStop pads on posts.

Anyone had these kinds of problems? Track is my thing and if I have to install anything on the bike that actually needs adjustment, I start to perspire.

Post some photos, so we can help you better. The brake pads should be fast to set up on the minimotos.

Where is your wheel in the track end? Far back or far front?

[J.Higgins]

I have had several bikes come through the shop with Paul Canti's, Mini-Moto's, and Moto-Lites. No problems with any of them. I own two bikes with Mini-moto's and Moto-Lite's right now, running Yokozuna compressionless cables on each. Great brakes!

[tellyho]

Reviving this post with a couple questions:

I just got a pair of Mini Motos cheap from a friend and am installing them on an old All City Nature Boy (canti version, purple and white) as a winter fixie. My two problems:

1. The Paul sleeves have only about a 2-3 mm recess in the sleeves that fit over the canti studs on the frame, but the studs are 8-9 mm tall. This leaves a weird gap with bare metal showing. There's no clear way that the sleeves will move on farther with that shallow recess.

2. Using them with HED Belgium 25+ rims, the front fit fine but the rear at the lowest shoe position still clips the base of the sidewall. More distance from the braking surface would help (it would give me more room for the brake arms to swing around and thus lower the point where the pads hit the braking surfaces) but there isn't much hardware to remove there and it's already using the long thin KoolStop pads on posts.

Anyone had these kinds of problems? Track is my thing and if I have to install anything on the bike that actually needs adjustment, I start to perspire.

I've had the problems you describe on a CAADX. I never fell in love with the mini moto there and ultimately replaced them with TRPs, which I did like quite a bit

Intellectually, I like Paul's sleeve solution for the pivot, but in many cases I feel like it's a sultion in search of a problem: regular Vs just work, for the most part.

[DHallerman]

I’ll be installing my first set of Paul Mini Motos soon. And after watching Paul’s video on installing them, I wonder about one point.

He says to put a drop or two of lube, like chain lube, into the brake’s noodle before you insert the cable through. Is that something you’ve done when installing these brakes? Or might that lube be overkill with compressionless housing and new cables?

Dave

[donevwil]

I’ll be installing my first set of Paul Mini Motos soon. And after watching Paul’s video on installing them, I wonder about one point.

He says to put a drop or two of lube, like chain lube, into the brake’s noodle before you insert the cable through. Is that something you’ve done when installing these brakes? Or might that lube be overkill with compressionless housing and new cables?

Dave

I would recommend against compressionless housing with Mini Motos. As wonderful as they are they do suffer from a lack of "modulation" and rim clearance, compressionless will only exacerbate these characteristics.

Never added a drop of lube personally.

[tctyres]

I’ll be installing my first set of Paul Mini Motos soon. And after watching Paul’s video on installing them, I wonder about one point.

He says to put a drop or two of lube, like chain lube, into the brake’s noodle before you insert the cable through. Is that something you’ve done when installing these brakes? Or might that lube be overkill with compressionless housing and new cables?

Dave

The noodle into the brake is always going to be high friction because there is a 90+ degree bend.

A drop or two of lubricant isn't going to be a problem there. I don't see how it would be overkill.

[herb5998]

If they are new noodles, you’re probably fine, occasionally I’ll lube them when repairing bikes at the shop when they are old and need something to reduce friction while replacing cables/housing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[p nut]

I actually liked compressionless housing with mini motos. One finger braking that was almost on par with hydros was very nice.

Regarding oiling the noodle, I avoid it since I live in the high desert and everything seems to get dusty really quick. Oil would just make it gunk up faster.

[phishrabbi]

I'm having so much trouble setting up my mini motor with my new BTLOS carbon rims.

I'm using the Kool Stop Cross Pad shoes with the BTLOS carbon pads.

I also tried the Kool Stop Carbon shoes and pads sold by Paul

No matter how I set them up they squeal so much I simply can't ride the bike.

Any advice? Do I need to sell the wheel set and go back to alloy?

[robt57]

Are you using the orig salmon kool stops? I put on Dura carriers for planned Swiss Stop pads and even the tri compound they came with which I assumed I'd be pulling worked great and I left on.

[phishrabbi]

Are you using the orig salmon kool stops?

I'm using the Kool Stop Cross Pad shoes with the carbon specific pads sold by BTLOS. I've also used the Kool Stop Carbon specific pads sold by Paul.

All Squeal All Day.

[robt57]

I'm using the Kool Stop Cross Pad shoes with the carbon specific pads sold by BTLOS. I've also used the Kool Stop Carbon specific pads sold by Paul.

All Squeal All Day.


He is using alloy rims. I'd highly recommend Dura carriers and Swiss Stop dark Blue Flash Pro BXP pads.'

For your carbons the Flash Pro Black Prince if the BTLOS aren't happy happy...

[GOTHBROOKS]

if you lube your shift and brake housing, why wouldnt you also lube the noodle? its literally housing.

[cgolvin]

I'm using the Kool Stop Cross Pad shoes with the carbon specific pads sold by BTLOS. I've also used the Kool Stop Carbon specific pads sold by Paul.

All Squeal All Day.

I assume you've already done this, but if mine squeal it means they need more toe-in. But that's on alloy rims, got nothing on carbon.

[tctyres]

I assume you've already done this, but if mine squeal it means they need more toe-in. But that's on alloy rims, got nothing on carbon.

Came here to say this. Charlie the mensch beat me to it.

[charliedid]

How wide is the rim?

[phishrabbi]

How wide is the rim?

External Width is 26mm, according to BTLOS

[phishrabbi]

After months of fiddling, I have officially given up on the carbon wheelset, and gone back to alloy.

No matter the setup or the pads, I simply couldn't get the mini motos to work with the BTLOS rims.

I guess I have a set of 24/28 DT swiss 240 + BTLOS 35mm wheels for sale....

[Gwerziou]

He is using alloy rims. I'd highly recommend Dura carriers and Swiss Stop dark Blue Flash Pro BXP pads.'

For your carbons the Flash Pro Black Prince if the BTLOS aren't happy happy...

Don't these brakes only take threaded post pads?

[phishrabbi]

Don't these brakes only take threaded post pads?

I used these (http://www.koolstop.com/english/crosspad.html) shoes with both the BTLOS and swiss stop carbon pads

[Gwerziou]

I used these (http://www.koolstop.com/english/crosspad.html) shoes with both the BTLOS and swiss stop carbon pads

Hey thanks! That is great news for me, opens up a lot of possibilities!

[benadrian]

Minimoto's are finnicky, and I've found the provided instructions/videos to be a hit or miss. I currently have these brakes on 3 separate bikes, all with different levers (Sram Rival included), so hopefully my instructions may help.

Starting from scratch, with the brake cable loosened.

1) Loosen the spring tension on both sides so the brake pads may sit on the brake track (essentially leaning on the rim)

2) Loosen the barrel adjuster on top of the noodle so that it's almost completely unscrewed (counterclockwise)

3) While the brake pads are sitting on both sides of the rim bed, secure the brake cable

4) Tighten the barrel adjuster (clockwise) a few notches to give the brakes some play (they both rotate side to side).

5) Adjust the spring tension on each side of the brake until the pads are equal distance from the rim. (I've found that the more tension, the better. Especially with drop bar levers)

6) Adjust the barrel adjuster until you've found the right amount of modulation.

If I'm not clear, let me know :crap:
I can get you photos later if you need.

'23 Edit:
Additional tip (not required for setup) requires a bit more effort but is 100% worth it.

- Use a road brake shoe (cartridge) instead of v-brake pads. A smaller, stiffer pad will help eliminate brake shudder, the pads are cheaper to replace, and the unit will allow you to use other brake pad compounds. Road brake shoes traditionally use a nut within the housing, so you will have to replace it with a bolt from the v-brake shoes.

I just tried this setup routine and got great results. Thanks!

Ben