Where have all the steel forks gone?

[bob heinatz]

I own three bikes,two steel and one titanium. My steel lugged has a steel fork that was made just for that bike and I find that fork completely changes the ride for the better. The other two bikes have carbon forks and have a different feel to them because of the fork. These carbon forks are simply off the shelf forks that the industry is pushing. Are we losing the art of matching a custom fork designed for a steel bike? Sachs, Kellogg and Kirk to name a few are still using steel forks. Are the rest of the custom builders simply pushing what they think is a easier sale or do they believe a carbon fork rides better?

[Kontact]

I own three bikes,two steel and one titanium. My steel lugged has a steel fork that was made just for that bike and I find that fork completely changes the ride for the better. The other two bikes have carbon forks and have a different feel to them because of the fork. These carbon forks are simply off the shelf forks that the industry is pushing. Are we losing the art of matching a custom fork designed for a steel bike? Sachs, Kellogg and Kirk to name a few are still using steel forks. Are the rest of the custom builders simply pushing what they think is a easier sale or do they believe a carbon fork rides better?

Given the extensive testing and input people like Tom Kellogg and Ben Serotta have had in carbon fork development, this seems like an iffy statement. Seven still has their own fork with customizable rake. Many builders give you a choice of carbon forks based on how they ride.

OTOH, many high end road bikes in years past used off the shelf steel forks.


Your objection seems to be that the ride is different - not better or worse. And it should be different between a steel and carbon fork. You clearly have a preference, which is cool. Maybe you'd have a different preference if you had tried some other carbon fork than the ones you have.

And while it is undeniable that a custom steel fork can be dialed in to an extent, the builder still has to use the fork blades that are available. And there really aren't that many different steel blades to play with, so the possibilities aren't exactly infinite.

[Big Dan]

All my carbone forks are long gone.

[andrewsuzuki]

People genuinely believe a stiff carbon fork will give them a better ride quality, often citing the damping properties of carbon (which barely has an effect).

Can't blame them if they haven't tried a thin-wall steel bike before.

Also can't blame them if they like disc brakes, since carbon seems to be the better material for a disc brake fork.

I think the Lauf Grit is pretty exciting. Supports disc brakes, 30mm of suspension, perhaps ~0.5lb heavier than a light steel fork but seems to work well.

[Kontact]

For the longest time, people chose carbon forks because they have a more comfortably ride than stiff steel racing bike forks.

[bob heinatz]

Kontact I certainly do like the ride of a steel fork better than a carbon fork. I am not the only one who likes a steel fork better. When I say off the shelf carbon fork most custom builders offer an Enve fork as your choice. My Spectrum Ti has a Enve fork. Somehow the industry has selected Enve as their go to fork. Dario now uses his Falz I believe in all of his bikes. Can these forks possibly be better than one specially designed for a specific size bike, use and riders weight?

[Burnette]

Kontact I certainly do like the ride of a steel fork better than a carbon fork. I am not the only one who likes a steel fork better. When I say off the shelf carbon fork most custom builders offer an Enve fork as your choice. My Spectrum Ti has a Enve fork. Somehow the industry has selected Enve as their go to fork. Dario now uses his Falz I believe in all of his bikes. Can these forks possibly be better than one specially designed for a specific size bike, use and riders weight?


As far as availability of steel forks the reason why options are few is because a steel fork goes with a steel bike but it doesn't work in reverse, steel fork to carbon frame. As far as steel goes there isn't much middle ground. Steel bikes will be relatively cheap examples or high dollar custom bikes.

You can get whatever you want from David Kirk, Nate Zukas, Eric Estlund, Mike Zanconato and others. So there isn't a shortage, it's what you're willing to pay for.

As far as feel it's really subjective isn't it? We could both ride the same bike and come away with very different opinions. In the end there are options for either type, buy according to your tastes.

[Kontact]

Kontact I certainly do like the ride of a steel fork better than a carbon fork. I am not the only one who likes a steel fork better. When I say off the shelf carbon fork most custom builders offer an Enve fork as your choice. My Spectrum Ti has a Enve fork. Somehow the industry has selected Enve as their go to fork. Dario now uses his Falz I believe in all of his bikes. Can these forks possibly be better than one specially designed for a specific size bike, use and riders weight?

I don't know, but most of your bike's parts are designed for a very wide range of rider weights. Maybe the act of preloading a carbon fork makes it ride correctly under 200 lbs and 140 lbs equally? The lighter rider engages the first part of the fork's travel, the heavier rider starts with more bend and goes further into the travel. Just like how a car's springs seem to work fine with one passenger or five.

But you have to appreciate that there are only so many fork blades:
http://www.henryjames.com/columbus-products/fork-blades.html

If your builder plans on using a 28.0x19 crown, the choices are 0.9 wall or 0.9 wall from Columbus. There probably are more choices out there, but you see what I mean. So just how much variation in ride can your builder get by the way they bend the blades?

I think you'll find that steel forks are as incremental as different carbon forks because there aren't as many different blades to choose from. Which is different than the number of down tubes available in a particular diameter.


I think this would be a lot different if forks had a more complicated job, like a frame does. But the stresses on a fork are pretty simple.

[soulspinner]

For the longest time, people chose carbon forks because they have a more comfortably ride than stiff steel racing bike forks.

Ive had a steel bike with a steel fork that was too stiff.

[jamesdak]

Put me firmly in the camp of a steel fork lover. I've just haven't been that impressed with the C.F. forks I've had/have on various bikes over the years.

For me it comes down mainly to how "compliant" the fork is over the rough chipseal I ride. Especially this one mile long section that's part of my base route. I've yet to encounter a C. F fork that can "dance" over those imperfections like several of my steel forks due. Not even the Domane I tested a couple of summers ago. Yet these same steel forks seem to give up noting in handling precision. At least nothing I can tell.

As too were have they all gone. I'm sure they're are still around from the premier guys working in steel.

I had high hopes yesterday for the F1 C.F. fork on my CSI. This was my maiden voyage on the bike. I finished the ride unimpressed. But it total fairness I do have the flu and was riding really slow (and heavy) yesterday. I'll reserve judgement for it until I get a few normal rides in on it.

[jamesdak]

For the longest time, people chose carbon forks because they have a more comfortably ride than stiff steel racing bike forks.

I see this statement time after time but have yet to actually experience it. L

Lets see, C.F. forks on Scott CR1 Pro, Madone 5.9, Lemond Zurich ( this is iffy, it's been awhile), Lemond Tourmelet (decent one), 87 Paramount with a Kestrel EMS, Serotta CSI (one ride impression only), Lynskey R265 and a 2014 Domane. None can compare in terms of comfort the the Excell Eco fork on my Giordana XL Super, the Basso Gap's, Greg Lemond Maillot Jaune, and I could go on with a few more of my steel rides. Just my actual experience for what it is worth. ;)

[unterhausen]

when I started framebuilding, the fork parts came with the rest of the tubes. Nowadays, when I order a set of tubes I have to remind myself to order fork parts. Something is wrong in the universe.

I am not convinced about the fork contributing to ride. I feel with some amount of certainty that the fork blade contribution to ride feel is secondary to the tires. The Kasei "Toei special" blades and, to a lesser degree, the Columbus rando blades from Framebuilder supply would allow more springiness though.

Some builders are more adventurous than I am with disc forks. I just use the disc blades from Nova, which are very stout. I keep hoping someone makes a fork that meets my needs in carbon, mostly because of weight. Not like those monster blades are flexing much.

[oldpotatoe]

People genuinely believe a stiff carbon fork will give them a better ride quality, often citing the damping properties of carbon (which barely has an effect).

Can't blame them if they haven't tried a thin-wall steel bike before.

Also can't blame them if they like disc brakes, since carbon seems to be the better material for a disc brake fork.

I think the Lauf Grit is pretty exciting. Supports disc brakes, 30mm of suspension, perhaps ~0.5lb heavier than a light steel fork but seems to work well.

Yeegads...way butt-ugly tho(IMHO)...always heard, a carbon fork makes a smooth road feel better and a rough road feel worse..BUT with the marketeers and all about the only 2 things you can actually measure(weight and price)...it's gotta be carbon..:):eek:

For the OP..

http://www.waterfordbikes.com

[BikeNY]

I don't know, but most of your bike's parts are designed for a very wide range of rider weights. Maybe the act of preloading a carbon fork makes it ride correctly under 200 lbs and 140 lbs equally? The lighter rider engages the first part of the fork's travel, the heavier rider starts with more bend and goes further into the travel. Just like how a car's springs seem to work fine with one passenger or five.

That's just not how it works. Any fork, carbon or steel will ride very differently for a 120lb rider vs. a 240lb rider. Your comparison to a cars suspension is totally off, sorry. First, the rider of a bike is the biggest percentage of the weight, so going from a light rider to a heavier one is a huge percentage difference. Adding a couple more people to a 4000lb+ car is a much smaller percentage change. Even so, loading 5 big people and gear into a Honda civic will most definitely change how the suspension feels!

[EricEstlund]

Don't worry, there are still options for you.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4667/39995603362_6deb9c2204.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4470/37633344190_67a150e6ce.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4316/35439665354_c777dfaced.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4308/36135577816_2706828815.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/461/31939503983_cf029eab96.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7057/27065784181_07d2ddce52.jpg

[Mzilliox]

I guess i dont get the thread. You can get both still right? and folks will make you forks if you want right?

so why carbon forks on a lot of bikes? i suspect there's a few factors at play and for each builder one or 2 play a stronger role.

ease
weight
quality
demand
options

Some builders seem to design a bike around a certain fork, while some design the fork for the bike, and some probably dont care one way or the other. we as consumers pick a bike or builder to match.

ive done both, currently having a bike built around the whiskey long reach fork because by all reports it rides really well and is very light for its job.

i also have a custom steel bike with a custom steel fork. im considering tryin the whiskey on it to be honest

[FlashUNC]

Have bikes with both steel and carbon forks.

If push came to shove I'd say the carbon stuff tunes out the high frequency vibration a bit better, but the tradeoff is maybe some of that steel road feel everyone points to.

They both work fine. Ride whatever floats your boat.

[glepore]

I'm going to pick up a bike today from Tom Kellogg's paint shop that was just redone for me. Lugged steel. The builder insisted on a lugged fork at the time, but I've been curious, so I also had Tom paint a Columbus minimal (bike has a 1 in steerer). I'll probably switch them in and out for comparisons sake. Not sure where I land on this.

[Kontact]

That's just not how it works. Any fork, carbon or steel will ride very differently for a 120lb rider vs. a 240lb rider. Your comparison to a cars suspension is totally off, sorry. First, the rider of a bike is the biggest percentage of the weight, so going from a light rider to a heavier one is a huge percentage difference. Adding a couple more people to a 4000lb+ car is a much smaller percentage change. Even so, loading 5 big people and gear into a Honda civic will most definitely change how the suspension feels!

Maybe, but how differently will they ride for a 140 pound and 190 pound rider?

The fact is that normal bikes are NOT load specific - not their frames, not their forks. That's either an enormous failing of all bike makers for all time, or it doesn't matter that much.

[andrewsuzuki]

Yeegads...way butt-ugly tho(IMHO)[/url]

The newer version (not released yet) looks a bit nicer (main fork is straighter)

https://i.imgur.com/wAvjFac.jpg

[mhespenheide]

The newer version (not released yet) looks a bit nicer (main fork is straighter)

https://i.imgur.com/wAvjFac.jpg

The wanna-be engineer in me just loves the idea behind the Lauf forks. Personally, I think they look awesome.

But then, I still wonder about adapting an old AMP fork onto a current/custom frame, 'cause I think the idea is cool. :help:

[mhespenheide]

Don't worry, there are still options for you.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4667/39995603362_6deb9c2204.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4470/37633344190_67a150e6ce.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4316/35439665354_c777dfaced.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4308/36135577816_2706828815.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/461/31939503983_cf029eab96.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7057/27065784181_07d2ddce52.jpg

Eric, that is freaking gorgeous work that makes me wish I had a bunch more disposable income. :banana:

[chiasticon]

I'm not sure I'd say the industry is pushing carbon forks. I think it's an easy place to save weight without destroying the ride quality; it's different, but not necessary bad, versus steel. and I think a lot of folks are cool with that.

I believe every steel bike I've owned has had a steel fork. some of those manufacturers offered a carbon fork as an option, some didn't. so I wouldn't say it's a dying art, really.

[Kontact]

I just bought my first steel bike - a 2000 Lemond. Came with a very nice riding Icon carbon fork.

When SR Prism/Litage aluminum forks became available, nearly every non-steel bike immediately switched to them or an in house aluminum fork, and a few years later migrated to carbon. If steel is real, seemingly no aluminum, carbon or Ti frame maker thought they were appropriate for their products. Which is either a weight weenie thing, fashion, or an acknowledgement of a genuine improvement in ride performance. Was there ever a pro that traded out their Vitus, Look or TVT forks for steel?

[El Chaba]

I just bought my first steel bike - a 2000 Lemond. Came with a very nice riding Icon carbon fork.

When SR Prism/Litage aluminum forks became available, nearly every non-steel bike immediately switched to them or an in house aluminum fork, and a few years later migrated to carbon. If steel is real, seemingly no aluminum, carbon or Ti frame maker thought they were appropriate for their products. Which is either a weight weenie thing, fashion, or an acknowledgement of a genuine improvement in ride performance. Was there ever a pro that traded out their Vitus, Look or TVT forks for steel?

I don't know of any pros who traded any of those forks for steel, but in that time period the carbon bike of reference-the Colnago C40-came with a Colnago Precisa steel fork. The C40 was equipped that way for a number of years...There were probably quite a few who wished that they had some fork other than a TVT, but that's another story...

[Big Dan]

I just bought my first steel bike - a 2000 Lemond. Came with a very nice riding Icon carbon fork.

When SR Prism/Litage aluminum forks became available, nearly every non-steel bike immediately switched to them or an in house aluminum fork, and a few years later migrated to carbon. If steel is real, seemingly no aluminum, carbon or Ti frame maker thought they were appropriate for their products. Which is either a weight weenie thing, fashion, or an acknowledgement of a genuine improvement in ride performance. Was there ever a pro that traded out their Vitus, Look or TVT forks for steel?

Don't know what to say about this post.
So much to learn.
Stick around.
btw, those bonded aluminum forks were pretty bad.

[jamesdak]

Don't know what to say about this post.
So much to learn.
Stick around.
btw, those bonded aluminum forks were pretty bad.

My 1999 Schwinn Circuit (Scott built bike) was totally let down by the harsh riding aluminum fork they put on it. It was great on perfect pavement but hell on the roads I normally ride.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/164765241.jpg

I was pleasantly surprised this summer when I picked up an old Bridgstone Mile 112 and found the aluminum fork on it to work quite well on the rough roads I ride. Still behind many of my steel ones in terms of comfort but really not bad at all.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166344759.jpg

[Kontact]

Don't know what to say about this post.
So much to learn.
Stick around.
btw, those bonded aluminum forks were pretty bad.

Bad how? I still have one and it seems to ride fine. So did the one I had on a Cannondale from '89 to 2013, or the one on the Vitus I rode for several years. The SRs weren't prone to breaking.


What was your bad experience?

[bigbill]

When Steve Garro built my Dirt Road Racer, he built the steel fork first and then built the frame. The axle to crown affects the headtube length, the angle of the top tube if it isn't level, and the angle of the headtube for toe clearance.

I've got a Merckx MX Leader and the fork is integral to the ride and iconic look of that bike.

My Pegoretti Big Leg Emma has a Reynolds Ouzo Pro carbon fork. It was the fork that Dario used to compliment the frame. Now he has the Falz and I don't know the difference in stiffness, but it appears to have better clearance and perhaps aerodynamics.

I've got a GT that started life as a Team Shaklee frame built by Mark Nobilette. It had a threaded GT EDGE (not the same as the company now known as ENVE) carbon fork. The frames were custom for the race team but the production frames had the EDGE forks so the team used them too. I had a builder in the DFW area make a steel fork to match up to the frame when I got it repainted. I rides very well although I never rode the carbon fork. The steel is threadless.

My Serotta Ti has a Serotta fork which are weren't rebranded generics. They were matched up according to their rake and stiffness to the correct frame.

[Big Dan]

Bad how? I still have one and it seems to ride fine. So did the one I had on a Cannondale from '89 to 2013, or the one on the Vitus I rode for several years. The SRs weren't prone to breaking.



I'm talking about custom steel frame and fork and you are talking '89 Cannondale?
Come on man..!!!!!!

[veggieburger]

For me....a carbon fork "goes" with everything (it looks decent on virtually any painted steel frame), is much easier to find and is generally more affordable. Generally. I have never had a custom bike, but ya....I prefer the ride of a steel fork on my steel frames.

[Kontact]

Bad how? I still have one and it seems to ride fine. So did the one I had on a Cannondale from '89 to 2013, or the one on the Vitus I rode for several years. The SRs weren't prone to breaking.



I'm talking about custom steel frame and fork and you are talking '89 Cannondale?
Come on man..!!!!!!

We're talking steel forks, production carbon forks and production aluminum forks, like the ones that came on Kestrels, custom Merlins, Litespeeds, Looks, etc.. You said the aluminum forks are bad.

Bad, how?