Kirk Headtube Junction

[ANAO]

The man himself posted this on facebook just now:

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27655024_1700438686684170_5604566251315055974_n.jp g?oh=75ab09c309f019fd37b8bf0bfd923840&oe=5AE28723

[AngryScientist]

pay attention.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=2309546#post2309546

[ANAO]

pay attention.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=2309546#post2309546

Whoops. Thanks NIc.

[AngryScientist]

no problem!

it is very cool.

i would be tempted to just have it clearcoated, instead of painting over that!

[skouri1]

Isn't clearcoating steel straight up a bit problematic re rust? (maybe--lack of primer?)
would look cool I agree, but I would prefer paint to appreciate the curves, rather than the craftsmanship.

[David Kirk]

Isn't clearcoating steel straight up a bit problematic re rust? (maybe--lack of primer?)
would look cool I agree, but I would prefer paint to appreciate the curves, rather than the craftsmanship.

Clear coat is not an option if you want to protect the steel....lots of reasons but it does not work well in the long term.

This frameset is going to be painted by Dario Pegoretti before it heads off to Asia.

dave

[eddief]

sticking out of the chainstays. Hope we get to see the finished product.

[William]

Mamma mia!!!! :cool:

Can something be both elegant and cool? Me thinks yes.:banana:







William

[Kontact]

That ought to drive up the price of silver!

[Chris]

Dave Calfee? Craig Kirk?

[thwart]

Dave Calfee? Craig Kirk?

Was thinking the same thing.

Who said steel can't be aero... ? ;)

[alancw3]

Clear coat is not an option if you want to protect the steel....lots of reasons but it does not work well in the long term.

This frameset is going to be painted by Dario Pegoretti before it heads off to Asia.

dave

dave i am just curious as to why a clear coat would not protect a steel frame as well as paint. just ashamed to not show the extraordinary workmanship in building the frame. does the frame still become susceptible to rust with a clear coat versus paint? what about if someone went with stainless steel?

[JasonF]

dave i am just curious as to why a clear coat would not protect a steel frame as well as paint. just ashamed to not show the extraordinary workmanship in building the frame. does the frame still become susceptible to rust with a clear coat versus paint? what about if someone went with stainless steel?

Dave has forgotten more about this stuff than I'll ever know but my Kirk isn't merely painted: it has a very tough and durable primer base in addition to the multiple coats of paint. So my guess is that bare metal is protected in more than one way that provides additional protection that a simple clear coat can't match.

[David Kirk]

dave i am just curious as to why a clear coat would not protect a steel frame as well as paint. just ashamed to not show the extraordinary workmanship in building the frame. does the frame still become susceptible to rust with a clear coat versus paint? what about if someone went with stainless steel?

It's a big question and I'll try to give a short answer. But first.....I do not offer stainless tubes with fillet brazing. There are few guys that offer this and due to my ongoing safety concerns I'm not one of them.

Ok - clear coat. First things first......clear coat isn't clear. When you spray it on light gray steel it looks much darker and the metal work can be tough to see. But that is just the look. The real issue is one of corrosion protection and clear offers little protection.

The vast majority of protection comes from the primer and base coats of paint. This stuff is designed to bond to the metal tenaciously and in effect seal it. After the primer is applied it gets color and then finally clear. The clear coat is designed to bond to other paint and not metal so it doesn't stay stuck all that well. In addition clear is slightly porous and moisture will move through the clear in fairly short order and then you have moisture being held in 24/7 contact with the metal and this does not end well. When clear is applied to paint it doesn't matter if the clear holds a bit of moisture but when it's right on the metal you have an issue.

What we usually see with cleared steel is that it gets dark when curing and then some time down the road one starts to see blotching and spider web lines on the steel under the clear (corrosion) and after the bond of the clear to the metal will fail and it will flake off. Not good.

So -

- it looks not nearly as good as people expect it will even when new
- it doesn't properly bond to metal
- it holds moisture directly against the metal
- the bond fails and it comes off
- you are pissed and want your money back


This is why I never offer clear only. I'm always flattered when people request it knowing it's because they want my handiwork to show, and I wish I could do it, but I only do things that I'm sure will work and make my customers smile for a very long time.

dave

[93KgBike]

Badass skills, sir. That's really beautiful!

So it will lookalike a carbon frame when painted? Is this just artistry, or ... ?

[alancw3]

It's a big question and I'll try to give a short answer. But first.....I do not offer stainless tubes with fillet brazing. There are few guys that offer this and due to my ongoing safety concerns I'm not one of them.

Ok - clear coat. First things first......clear coat isn't clear. When you spray it on light gray steel it looks much darker and the metal work can be tough to see. But that is just the look. The real issue is one of corrosion protection and clear offers little protection.

The vast majority of protection comes from the primer and base coats of paint. This stuff is designed to bond to the metal tenaciously and in effect seal it. After the primer is applied it gets color and then finally clear. The clear coat is designed to bond to other paint and not metal so it doesn't stay stuck all that well. In addition clear is slightly porous and moisture will move through the clear in fairly short order and then you have moisture being held in 24/7 contact with the metal and this does not end well. When clear is applied to paint it doesn't matter if the clear holds a bit of moisture but when it's right on the metal you have an issue.

What we usually see with cleared steel is that it gets dark when curing and then some time down the road one starts to see blotching and spider web lines on the steel under the clear (corrosion) and after the bond of the clear to the metal will fail and it will flake off. Not good.

So -

- it looks not nearly as good as people expect it will even when new
- it doesn't properly bond to metal
- it holds moisture directly against the metal
- the bond fails and it comes off
- you are pissed and want your money back


This is why I never offer clear only. I'm always flattered when people request it knowing it's because they want my handiwork to show, and I wish I could do it, but I only do things that I'm sure will work and make my customers smile for a very long time.

dave

thank you dave for explaining to me about clear coat. just shame that it could not be used to show off your craftsmanship.

[tedbarbeau]

Absolutely stunning. I hope we all get to see the finished product once it has been painted. As others have said, 'tis a shame that this level of craftsmanship needs to be hidden behind paint.

On the other hand, the rider will know, and you will know, and those in the know will know :)

[jke.4132]

Absolutely stunning. I hope we all get to see the finished product once it has been painted. As others have said, 'tis a shame that this level of craftsmanship needs to be hidden behind paint.

On the other hand, the rider will know, and you will know, and those in the know will know :)

Yeah but you get another level of craftsmanship layered on top with a Dario Pegoretti paint scheme.

This is going to be an awesome frame set.

[JasonF]

thank you dave for explaining to me about clear coat. just shame that it could not be used to show off your craftsmanship.

Dave has a solution for you...it's called the Onesto.