Strava - Not Just For Stealing Bikes

[zmudshark]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/a-map-showing-the-users-of-fitness-devices-lets-the-world-see-where-us-soldiers-are-and-what-they-are-doing/2018/01/28/86915662-0441-11e8-aa61-f3391373867e_story.html?utm_term=.a0aeb8979aa2&wpisrc=al_news__alert-world--alert-national&wpmk=1

[bigbill]

Especially around Paradise Valley, AZ. You going to be there the week of 3/12? We can lay down some red lines.

[zmudshark]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/28/fitness-tracking-app-gives-away-location-of-secret-us-army-bases?CMP=share_btn_tw

[zmudshark]

Especially around Paradise Valley, AZ. You going to be there the week of 3/12? We can lay down some red lines.

Yes, I hope to be healed by then.

[ftf]

Personally I don't understand the point of strava, if you want to race just go to a race.

[Cicli]

Personally I don't understand the point of strava, if you want to race just go to a race.

Modern day male sword fight.

[ultraman6970]

Interesting link, I thought about that long time ago :) Just follow somebody's route, all you need to know :)

[MattTuck]

i'd really hope that we have people thinking about this, and make the appropriate decisions to safeguard what is truly secret. Though, given recent lapses in the intelligence community's security, I'm not exactly super confident.

Now, if they had some strava activities from alien UFOs at Area 51... now that'd be something :)

[pasadena]

Personally I don't understand the point of strava, if you want to race just go to a race.

1. easy record of your training/ riding broken down by week, month and years
2. find cycle friendly routes in new areas
3. try to beat your pr's on segments of your choosing or creation
4. social aspect of meeting, supporting and learning about fellow cyclists activities
5. you can be completely private and/or control who sees your activities
6. it's free.

The only person I follow that "races" on strava is Phil Gaimon.

[ultraman6970]

Area 51 strava stuff??? that i would like to see... even more if goes all the way to another planet...

[beeatnik]

The only person I follow that "races" on strava is Phil Gaimon.

That guy makes me want to quit Strava.

Btw, missed you out there today, J!

[FlashUNC]

Personally I don't understand the point of strava, if you want to race just go to a race.

You never had to keep a training log in a journal or on a spreadsheet then.

[ftf]

You never had to keep a training log in a journal or on a spreadsheet then.

Even when I was racing I never did this.....

I just use the SRM files as a log, it's automatic as well.

[bicycletricycle]

Whoops!

[sandyrs]

Even when I was racing I never did this.....

I just use the SRM files as a log, it's automatic as well.

Cool

[Craiger810]

Standby for the military to ban GPS watches on bases...

[GregL]

Standby for the military to ban GPS watches on bases...
Not an altogether unreasonable request, especially when deployed OCONUS. In my work as a DoD contractor, I go to lots of places where I can't bring a phone or camera. It's part of the rules to ensure the safety and security of our country and military personnel. If you don't like the rules, you can find another line of work.

Greg

[herb5998]

Agree completely Greg, it's also possible that Strava could allow users to opt out of the GPS tracking if they feel that it's a privacy issue. I know they allow the public/private posting of actual activity, but since the annual heat map tool is anonymous, it probably sits outside of that.

[Wayne77]

To those using this post as yet another reason to ridicule Strava users (even though it has zero to do with the ills of Strava and the downfall of modern society)...2010 called and they want their sentiment back. Its a pretty tone-deaf stance to take, with all due respects. Have you used it? I love Strava. It has nothing to do with KOMs. I'm connected to about 60 other locals I race and train with...many of whom are on different teams...for them snagging segment KOMs is a very small part of what they use it for. What we DO use it for is to track our training progress, look for PRs, motivate each other, create and share training routes, as well as some very practical tools for race analysis ("Fly bys"). I also know several people who don't use Strava who chose not to because they use different tools, or the above benefits aren't a priority. If you fit into the latter category, kudos.

Back to the original topic...

I'm sure there will be some people blaming Strava for this. This is no different than someone posting pics from their run on Facebook, with a selfie or two in uniform, including detail about when they regularly go for a jog, their GPS coordinates, and their route. For those military personnel and civilian government employees on military installations uploading their public Strava routes its probably some mix of a) those who just don't know what's happening with the data b) those who are aware that their GPS tracks are public and don't care enough about it. I think its also safe to assume that there are plenty smart personnel out there who DO know what happens, understand the security risks, and therefore don't share any GPS tracking, or at least mark all routes private. That said, I'd surprised if personnel in "top secret" locations, would be allowed to upload routes even if they were marked "Private" - the data is still in the cloud.

...Stay tuned for a Strava announcement concerning any current encryption they use, or new encryption they plan on...as well as an enhancement in the works that would allow people to upload and share ride/run stats without a GPS track. EDIT: just realized you CAN do this. Just enter the workout and related stats manually...

[goonster]

i'd really hope that we have people thinking about this, and make the appropriate decisions to safeguard what is truly secret.

At the ground level, I believe they are called OPSEC managers, and they are having a bad week.

This is an excellent reminder to consider just how much of our data and metadata is in the hands of unaccountable, non-transparent companies, where some doofus high on his own power can release it on a whim because it looks cool.

[GregL]

One (hopefully) last thought on this subject. It's a molehill being blown up into a mountain. This isn't about the merits of Strava. It's just an example of the law of unintended consequences. Human connection through technology is growing so fast that security (and other) concerns routinely come up. Now that it's known that Strava heatmaps can display potentially significant military information, the DoD will release policies to decrease the potential threat. Nothing new here and certainly not worth (IMO) making a "big deal" over. For example, Google, Apple, and Bing (Microsoft) mapping vehicles aren't allowed on military bases. Nobody seems to think that policy is unreasonable.

Greg

[Wayne77]

Agree completely Greg, it's also possible that Strava could allow users to opt out of the GPS tracking if they feel that it's a privacy issue. I know they allow the public/private posting of actual activity, but since the annual heat map tool is anonymous, it probably sits outside of that.

Today you can do this by entering the workout manually...of course that doesn't give you a GPS track for personal use but there's definitely a way to create and share workouts with no GPS track.

The other thing that comes to mind is even if the heat map is anonymous, I don't think that changes the security nature of this discussion...common running & cycling routes on military installations I think still pose security risks. It does tell you what some of the more commonly travelled roads and pathways on a military base are...and one can also infer those roads and paths are well maintained and commonly frequented by personnel.

Interestingly, if someone managed to hack the GPS live feed of a ranking officer mid-workout (one can easily share real-time location with friends) that would be a SIGNICANT risk.

[Wayne77]

one (hopefully) last thought on this subject. It's a molehill being blown up into a mountain. This isn't about the merits of strava. It's just an example of the law of unintended consequences. Human connection through technology is growing so fast that security (and other) concerns routinely come up. Now that it's known that strava heatmaps can display potentially significant military information, the dod will release policies to decrease the potential threat. Nothing new here and certainly not worth (imo) making a "big deal" over. For example, google, apple, and bing (microsoft) mapping vehicles aren't allowed on military bases. Nobody seems to think that policy is unreasonable.

Greg


this.

[FlashUNC]

Strava and run trackers and the like ain't exactly new. Whos minding the henhouse on these policies for the relevant defense and intelligence agencies? Surely someone there is using a run tracker of some sort over the last half decade?

Reminds me of how folks hunt for classified military vehicles on Google Maps, like those Chinese? subs in port a couple years back.

[GregL]

Whos minding the henhouse on these policies for the relevant defense and intelligence agencies? Surely someone there is using a run tracker of some sort over the last half decade?
The folks minding the store are typically middle-age males like me :eek:. We're not as "in tune" with current electronic social media trends. It takes us old guys a while to catch on. Hopefully they're getting good input from the younger employees!

Greg

[makoti]

Personally I don't understand the point of strava, if you want to race just go to a race.

Seriously? It's facebook for cyclists/runners/etc. It's a training log. It's a way to follow friends on their rides. It's also a way to find new routes in your area. And, yes, it can be a way to gauge your abilities with others who do the same thing.
Other than the last one, which of those will racing do for me?

[ftf]

Seriously? It's facebook for cyclists/runners/etc. It's a training log. It's a way to follow friends on their rides. It's also a way to find new routes in your area. And, yes, it can be a way to gauge your abilities with others who do the same thing.
Other than the last one, which of those will racing do for me?

All of those others are already covered by other means, as you pointed out you could just use facebook for the social aspects, I notice people posting Strava and other running/cycling tracker info on facebook anyways. Training log? If you are training with power, that's automatically done with that software, as I pointed out already. As for the new routes, I guess I know all the routes from riding them, by myself or just with others that show me routes, I suppose if you go to a new area it might be helpful in the beginning.

Frankly, strava in my opinion is just for exhibitionism. I don't know why I would feel the need to tell the world about my rides.


I'm sure I use technology that others deem useless, see the camera thread.

[Bostic]

Why I use Strava:

Automatic Uploading of rides. Entering in data manually into a spread or into the previous online place I used is simply not fun. It's done for me and I can look over it right away.

Finding routes from others. This has been extremely handy versus buying a guide book or trying to piece something together.

Finding new cycling peeps. The fly-by feature or even before that seeing who is on a ride and asking if they are on Strava or not.

Finding out grades and lengths of climbs. When planning routes, to see what I'm in for.

I have privacy set for all the starting places that I want to be private, with the biggest radius circle. I'm sure people could still find out if they wanted to bad enough.

I name all my bikes very generic names.

I don't use Strava as an Instragram feed, hoarding kudos and comments.

A lot of this really is common sense stuff. If I had a clearance for a line of work the first thing in my head would be "Is this really what I should be doing, uploading info to something that is not secure?"

[pasadena]

That guy makes me want to quit Strava.

Btw, missed you out there today, J!

Recovery mode- slept in a lot hehe
but I stopped by ábloc and checked out the Catella stock
The new stuff is pretty cool.

[OldCrank]

Then, if you're worried that hostile armies or spies will try to use this data, there's always the Fun Aspect:
Create a user, say Sgt. Wisenheimer.
He and Private Parts report to Gen Nusiance.
He rides a unicycle.
Create Strava ride records for him, thru the Kremlin, under Jerusalem, inside Iranian nukes, Kim Jong's bathroom, Mar-a-Lago...

[GregL]

A lot of this really is common sense stuff. If I had a clearance for a line of work the first thing in my head would be "Is this really what I should be doing, uploading info to something that is not secure?"
Sadly, common sense isn't common. A clearance just means that you haven't screwed up... so far. As they say, "Past performance is no guarantee of
future success." Lots of people with clearances have deliberately or accidently caused big security breeches...

Greg

[ripvanrando]

I don't map my rides from my front door nor do I make my data public but that is to protect any fool who tries to break into my house.

Strava has some nice functionality but I prefer other utilities for training.

[fiamme red]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/30/opinion/strava-privacy.html

A challenging feature of machine learning is that exactly how a given system works is opaque. Nobody — not even those who have access to the code and data — can tell what piece of data came together with what other piece of data to result in the finding the program made. This further undermines the notion of informed consent, as we do not know which data results in what privacy consequences. What we do know is that these algorithms work better the more data they have. This creates an incentive for companies to collect and store as much data as possible, and to bury the privacy ramifications, either in legalese or by playing dumb and being vague...

[BobO]

Frankly, strava in my opinion is just for exhibitionism.

Viewpoints have a tendency to quite individual. I , for one, have found numerous uses for Strava that go well beyond exhibitionism. Among those uses is some good natured competition between people. That's fun and there isn't anything wrong with it. Just like cycling itself, we all have our reasons and many of those reasons are different.

I don't know why I would feel the need to tell the world about my rides.

Thankfully you're free to make that choice and I am free to use the service as provided.

:)