2018 potential new build: Ultegra R8000 vs Chorus?

[tylercheung]

I guess wading into another political topic, but musing over a potential new (theoretical) build.

Now the New and Improved (tm!) Shimano ultegra R8000 is out...this has reignited the debate in my mind between building w/ this vs. Chorus 2015+. From what I can tell, they both are excellent.


At any rate. Ultegra R8000 set can be had for ~$350 less than Chorus, but is a smidge heavier. I guess maybe it comes down to aesthetics, shifter shape, levers and feel, and whether or not you can have a 32t cassette as well...

At any rate, my experiences on current/former bikes have been:

Ultegra 6800 - my usual bike - I like it a lot (probably also b/c most fastidiously maintained). super quiet, nice snappy shifts.
Ultegra R8000/disc - good, but I feel like it still needs to be "broken in". Getting better over time as noise gremlins get worked out.
Campy Athena 11 - actually pretty good once I got the LBS to readjust the RD. Shifts "Snappy" as has been described re: campy, and also very very quiet.
Campy Record 10s - tbh not as good as athena, but I suspect I need to get it serviced...


Please reprimand me if I inadvertently start another flame war...

ps as an aside... I also suspect I may have found out the deal re: shimano crank failures...the FD has very little clearance inside the crank, and if the cable is too slack will score the inside of the shimano cranks just where all the Internet pictures show breakages....

[Hilltopperny]

I have newer chorus on both of my non disc road bikes and it is excellent. Probably my favorite group for my non disc bikes. I also have two bikes inbound with the new 8020. I have 6800 with 785 disc levers on my winter build and it works wonderful as well, but I have always preferred campy ever since trying it out years ago.

I don't think you can go wrong either way and I think they are both the best bang for buck groups available from either manufacturer.

[FlashUNC]

Chorus.

[R3awak3n]

r8000 is very nice, there is no doubt but compared to chorus, it feels cheap and is much uglier.

I just set up partial r8000 and new chorus. Both are nice and work well. The shiman is soft, clicks are quite and soft, at first I didn't even feel the bike was shifting. Some might like this, I prefer the sure mechanical clicks of chorus.

I also like the way chorus looks, the hoods are so much nice, the smaller shifters are my preference. The group belongs on a road bike while the shimano looks good only on some bikes. Its also way more plasticy.

You can't go wrong with either but if you have the money, go chorus (which is imo the best campy group out right now, great deal, looks better than record/SR because it doesnt have red)

[Clean39T]

Chorus, but try to find a take-off group or lightly used so you can get it for less than R8000...

And I believe there’s a mid-cage option to get you to 32, but tbh, if I needed gears that low, I’d go subcompact up front and keep tighter gears in the back.

[Wayne77]

For me its basically a toss-up. The newer gen Campy cranks are ugly (maybe its just me). So now they rival the Ultegra cranks in terms of ugliness....again just me. A few other factors

* Wear items - cassettes & chains - Shimano/Sram is cheaper. That's why with my Campy groups I NEVER replace with Campy chains. KMC quick-links chains are every bit as good, just as light, and don't require that stupid $90 campy chain tool. Maybe that's changed recently... Chorus cassettes are way overpriced for what you get (IMO)
* May not matter to you, but its nice to have cassettes & freehub bodies that are more widely swappable with other wheelsets, your friends wheelsets, wheels and cassettes you buy from locals, avail at shops, emergency last minute swaps pre-race, etc. My locale would never be accused of having a cycling demographic with the finer Campy tastes...90% of people around here race Shimano or Sram. That factor may or may not matter to you.
* The Campy thumb shifter w/the full dump feature on the higher end groups ROCKS. I miss being able to dump nearly the entire cassette a lot (I use DA9000 currently)
* IMO, EPS ergonomics are better than Di2. I used a Di2 bike in Belgium over the cobbles and the tiny buttons were unusable when things get crazy bumpy
* Some people prefer the more solid 'thunk' when shifting you get with Campy, some the slick, silent feel of Shimano. I slightly prefer the Campy feel personally. For me at least my Shimano front derailleurs shift much better than the two versions of Chorus (10 and 11 speed) I've had in the past. Maybe new Campy has improved front shifting.
* Shimano front der setup (at least with DA9000) is a pain in the @ss. My campy front ders (again maybe user error on my part) always seem so much easier to adjust.
* Getting a campy part when you need one quick is a total crap shoot at my local bike shops. Shimano/Sram not so much.
* Oh yeah, one thing I love about the newer gen Shimano cranks is you don't need a different crank to switch between compact and standard chain rings. Halle-Freakin-luja!!

If it were me, with my own particular preferences that don't always make sense to the purists, I would get a very slightly used 9000 or 9100 group and run a different crank if the crank aesthetics bug you. Should be quite a bit lighter than Chorus or Ultegra. For some reason I like the 9000 crank...a little more svelte looking than the R9100, R8000 look. The main reason I say that is wear items. I put a lot of miles on cassettes. I like paying $70 for a Force cassette that is just as light, works just as well, and much cheaper than a Chorus cassette.

That said...if wear items for high mile training, intercompatibility with your local bros, replace on demand-ability is less of a concern and you're building up your cork-sniffer-dream build-that represents everything that is right about cycling heritage - Go Campy....just try not to look at that crank too closely :-)

[Black Dog]

For me its basically a toss-up. The newer gen Campy cranks are ugly (maybe its just me). So now they rival the Ultegra cranks in terms of ugliness....again just me. A few other factors

* Wear items - cassettes & chains - Shimano/Sram is cheaper. That's why with my Campy groups I NEVER replace with Campy chains. KMC quick-links chains are every bit as good, just as light, and don't require that stupid $90 campy chain tool. Maybe that's changed recently... Chorus cassettes are way overpriced for what you get (IMO)
* May not matter to you, but its nice to have cassettes & freehub bodies that are more widely swappable with other wheelsets, your friends wheelsets, wheels and cassettes you buy from locals, avail at shops, emergency last minute swaps pre-race, etc. My locale would never be accused of having a cycling demographic with the finer Campy tastes...90% of people around here race Shimano or Sram. That factor may or may not matter to you.
* The Campy thumb shifter w/the full dump feature on the higher end groups ROCKS. I miss being able to dump nearly the entire cassette a lot (I use DA9000 currently)
* IMO, EPS ergonomics are better than Di2. I used a Di2 bike in Belgium over the cobbles and the tiny buttons were unusable when things get crazy bumpy
* Some people prefer the more solid 'thunk' when shifting you get with Campy, some the slick, silent feel of Shimano. I slightly prefer the Campy feel personally. For me at least my Shimano front derailleurs shift much better than the two versions of Chorus (10 and 11 speed) I've had in the past. Maybe new Campy has improved front shifting.
* Shimano front der setup (at least with DA9000) is a pain in the @ss. My campy front ders (again maybe user error on my part) always seem so much easier to adjust.
* Getting a campy part when you need one quick is a total crap shoot at my local bike shops. Shimano/Sram not so much.
* Oh yeah, one thing I love about the newer gen Shimano cranks is you don't need a different crank to switch between compact and standard chain rings. Halle-Freakin-luja!!

If it were me, with my own particular preferences that don't always make sense to the purists, I would get a very slightly used 9000 or 9100 group and run a different crank if the crank aesthetics bug you. Should be quite a bit lighter than Chorus or Ultegra. For some reason I like the 9000 crank...a little more svelte looking than the R9100, R8000 look. The main reason I say that is wear items. I put a lot of miles on cassettes. I like paying $70 for a Force cassette that is just as light, works just as well, and much cheaper than a Chorus cassette.

That said...if wear items for high mile training, intercompatibility with your local bros, replace on demand-ability is less of a concern and you're building up your cork-sniffer-dream build-that represents everything that is right about cycling heritage - Go Campy....just try not to look at that crank too closely :-)

A couple of points to correct here. You can run any 11 speed cassette from any maker on campy and visa versa. The cog spacing is the same. If you have 11 speed compatible Shimano wheels run 105 or Ultegra cassettes or Sram.

As for the campy cranks there is only 1 bcd now and the same cranks accept all chain ring combos just like Shimano.

As for running a 34 tooth cassette just pick up a potenza rd with the longer cage. The standard chorus will run up to 30 teeth with no issue.

[Wayne77]

A couple of points to correct here. You can run any 11 speed cassette from any maker on campy and visa versa. The cog spacing is the same. If you have 11 speed compatible Shimano wheels run 105 or Ultegra cassettes or Sram.

As for the campy cranks there is only 1 bcd now and the same cranks accept all chain ring combos just like Shimano.

As for running a 34 tooth cassette just pick up a potenza rd with the longer cage. The standard chorus will run up to 30 teeth with no issue.

Thanks for the clarifications. I didn't know that about the newer Campy cranks. That's great to hear. I was aware of the cassette interchangeability with 11 speed drivetrains so I suppose its a non issue when it comes to using a Campy wheel in a Shimano/Sram drivetrain (or vice versa). Good point. I was referring more to not being able to use your Campy cassette on a borrowed wheel with a Shimano freehub, or if you need to get a replacement cassette in a snap for your campy wheel, etc. Maybe those are edge cases for most folks but they are factors that came into play for me when all my bikes were Campy outfitted yet all my friends (and fellow racers) bikes were Shimano / Sram :-)

[dogrange]

Long time shimano user here, but gradually switching over to campy after trying it on my last new bike. Shimano shifters have gotten steadily more plasticky and mushy feeling since 7800, so the tactile quality of the Campy shifters is much appreciated. The 785 levers were the last straw for me, tons of slop with those. The chains and cassettes are interchangeable- running a SR crank with a DA9000 drivetrain on my rando bike ind it is perfect, and have used many shimano wheels on my SR bike with no issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[R3awak3n]

its been said but my complaints with campy were the 29T cassette limit and the price of the cassettes. Now that they are interchangeable with shimano, I just get ultegra cassettes. Cheap, light and excellent. I always got KMC chains so no need for the silly campy chain breaker.

And also as already mentioned there is now a mid cage derailleur for all the groups. Potenza, Centaur, Chorus, Record and SR so a 32T cassette is now possible with any group.

I like the new campy crank, looks great on modern bikes but there is nothing that tells you you can't run an older gen crank on the new groups... they are easily available still. The new campy derailleur is also very nice, worth it IMO so I would always buy the 2015+ campy over the older versions. RD is also a different design but I don't notice as much difference as with the excellent FD shifting.

[Black Dog]

its been said but my complaints with campy were the 29T cassette limit and the price of the cassettes. Now that they are interchangeable with shimano, I just get ultegra cassettes. Cheap, light and excellent. I always got KMC chains so no need for the silly campy chain breaker.

And also as already mentioned there is now a mid cage derailleur for all the groups. Potenza, Centaur, Chorus, Record and SR so a 32T cassette is now possible with any group.

I like the new campy crank, looks great on modern bikes but there is nothing that tells you you can't run an older gen crank on the new groups... they are easily available still. The new campy derailleur is also very nice, worth it IMO so I would always buy the 2015+ campy over the older versions. RD is also a different design but I don't notice as much difference as with the excellent FD shifting.

Campy compatable chain tools are certainly no longer very expensive. However, I use a quick link on my campy chains. I have seen 30 tooth cassettes run with zero issues on campy and even 32 (for 32 YMMV).

[beeatnik]

R8000 is the best value in "premium" groups. If you're looking to build up a 5th or 6th bike and if you value your time and money, it's the way to go. What's impressed me about 8000 is how close it is to 9100 in function and finish. The 9100 calipers are best rim brakes on the market and 8000 are a close 2nd. The derailleurs are also pretty cool. However, as R3awak3n mentioned, the aesthetics don't work for every frame. So, go Chorus for a pretty or special bike (one on which you can be more indulgent) and go for 8000 on an utilitarian machine.

[tylercheung]

Ah ok. Much to mull over...campy parts compatible with Shimano cassettes?!?! Whoa!

[pasadena]

beeat
you are too spoiled!:p


R8000 is the best value in "premium" groups. If you're looking to build up a 5th or 6th bike and if you value your time and money, it's the way to go. What's impressed me about 8000 is how close it is to 9100 in function and finish. The 9100 calipers are best rim brakes on the market and 8000 are a close 2nd. The derailleurs are also pretty cool. However, as R3awak3n mentioned, the aesthetics don't work for every frame. So, go Chorus for a pretty or special bike (one on which you can be more indulgent) and go for 8000 on an utilitarian machine.

[Dave M]

Chorus, no question.

[beeatnik]

beeat
you are too spoiled!:p


The OP has 6 bikas, not me! ;)

[Clean39T]

...8000 on an utilitarian machine.

Yep. Plus their brakes have great clearance. And the pedals are top notch. We could also mention how the profile on the rear derailleur keeps it nice and protected. But all that said, there's no getting over the fact that their levers feel mushy and are hard to work with the types of gloves people tend to wear while doing utilitarian things on their utilitarian machines...

[beeatnik]

Yep. Plus their brakes have great clearance. And the pedals are top notch. We could also mention how the profile on the rear derailleur keeps it nice and protected. But all that said, there's no getting over the fact that their levers feel mushy and are hard to work with the types of gloves people tend to wear while doing utilitarian things on their utilitarian machines...

With the 3 billz you save, you can afford to get proper gloves. Assos or Q36.5 (hi Heisenberg!).

[Clean39T]

With the 3 billz you save, you can afford to get proper gloves. Assos or Q36.5 (hi Heisenberg!).


Shhh...but I paid less for my new Chorus group than I’ve seen anyone offering R8000...and have pieced together R11 and SR11 for less than 9100...

But anyway, yes, good gloves do help...and really, the best shifters with gloves on are downtube, thumbies, bar-end, or eTap...but barring those, I’d rather shift Campy any cold/wet day over Shimano. And Shimano over Double-Tap for dam sure...unless I can start a ride and never have to downshift...I love how SRAM feels in one direction...its climbing back up the cassette that sux rox.

[weisan]

Ultegra 6800 - my usual bike - I like it a lot (probably also b/c most fastidiously maintained). super quiet, nice snappy shifts.

Why don't you just get another set of 6800?

They are being thrown out almost every day for pennies on a dollar.

The newest and the latest...sometimes is just that....the newest and the latest.

[soulspinner]

Campy Chorus. Is this really a question? :rolleyes:

[oldpotatoe]

I guess wading into another political topic, but musing over a potential new (theoretical) build.

Now the New and Improved (tm!) Shimano ultegra R8000 is out...this has reignited the debate in my mind between building w/ this vs. Chorus 2015+. From what I can tell, they both are excellent.


At any rate. Ultegra R8000 set can be had for ~$350 less than Chorus, but is a smidge heavier. I guess maybe it comes down to aesthetics, shifter shape, levers and feel, and whether or not you can have a 32t cassette as well...

At any rate, my experiences on current/former bikes have been:

Ultegra 6800 - my usual bike - I like it a lot (probably also b/c most fastidiously maintained). super quiet, nice snappy shifts.
Ultegra R8000/disc - good, but I feel like it still needs to be "broken in". Getting better over time as noise gremlins get worked out.
Campy Athena 11 - actually pretty good once I got the LBS to readjust the RD. Shifts "Snappy" as has been described re: campy, and also very very quiet.
Campy Record 10s - tbh not as good as athena, but I suspect I need to get it serviced...


Please reprimand me if I inadvertently start another flame war...

ps as an aside... I also suspect I may have found out the deal re: shimano crank failures...the FD has very little clearance inside the crank, and if the cable is too slack will score the inside of the shimano cranks just where all the Internet pictures show breakages....

And more functional shift levers both in terms of front der trim and more than one higher gear at a time for the rear..Chorus..:)

It's not about price(cheapo 6800) but looks, feel, function(see above)...if you want to save $, get Centaur or Potenza..far superior to 6800..Chorus is more akin to Record/SR than 6800 will ever be to 9000...

'Newest and latest'? Chorus as it sits now has been around since 2015..2 years plus.

[skouri1]

What do people have to say about the durability of these groups?
My LBS doesn't like the new campy stuff. Shop owner used to ride campy exclusively, and now is on SRAM and even ultegra.

I know the old stuff 10spd stuff was rebuildable. but what necessitated a rebuild? Is it that the springs lost springiness and the shifts felt less crisp? Or did it start mis-shifting.

What is the long term durability like on the new 11spd Campy gear? Does it require frequent adjustment.

Shimano I have found pretty good. Although, to be fair, the body of my Dura Ace 7900/ reach adjustment screws got damaged in the 5 years I have been using it from disassembly/reassembly a knock or two. My 6600 Ultegra wont die though.

[oldpotatoe]

What do people have to say about the durability of these groups?
My LBS doesn't like the new campy stuff. Shop owner used to ride campy exclusively, and now is on SRAM and even ultegra.

I know the old stuff 10spd stuff was rebuildable. but what necessitated a rebuild? Is it that the springs lost springiness and the shifts felt less crisp? Or did it start mis-shifting.

What is the long term durability like on the new 11spd Campy gear? Does it require frequent adjustment.

Shimano I have found pretty good. Although, to be fair, the body of my Dura Ace 7900/ reach adjustment screws got damaged in the 5 years I have been using it from disassembly/reassembly a knock or two. My 6600 Ultegra wont die though.

Older levers, shift springs got tired or broke(2 each lever) or spring carrier broke..both easy fixes. New 2009+ Ultrashift..no springs, no spring carrier..wee ball bearings in a notched plate..nothing to really wear out.

Once installed, 11s Campag just works..I'm surprised a LBS 'owner' who 'seemed' to know what's up would opt for shimano or sram..I suspect it is about $, certainly not about function or longevity.

Picture of Campag US innards.

'Disc lower center.

[R3awak3n]

I have had 8 speed all through 11 campy and I feel the quality has been maintained so yeah that shop owner is clueless.

[kansukee]

Campagnolo, it isn't even debatable. That shop owner is an idiot, or cheap.

[skouri1]

I know you have your allegiances, but please be civil.
The shop owner is a great guy and very knowledgeable.

I can pry him a bit more. I'm sure he has his reasons and that they are solid. Maybe I misunderstood his motivation (could have been a question of EP options).

[bob heinatz]

Both are nice but if it was my money Campy.

[CSKeller]

Not even a real comparison in my opinion.

I have yet to find a Shimano or Sram set up that shifts as well and positively as Campagnolo.

I do think that Shimano produces really nice stuff but in my opinion, it just doesn't come close to matching the look and feel of Campagnolo. I swapped in 2001. My only regret is that I didn't swap to Campy sooner.

My money for road bikes goes to Campagnolo gruppos.

YMMV.

Good luck with your new build and let us know how it goes.

[PNW]

Chorus. Not even a comparison.

[R3awak3n]

campy does not have a group that compares to r8000 though. Centaur is cheap, potenza is close but I think r8000 is nice. Maybe silly but chorus seem equivalent to DA, maybe a tiny bit heavier but the quality on chorus is top notch.

I still have to try my etap, its ready to go just waiting on the frame. I may be proven wrong and I am a big campy guy but from handling the group it is as nice as my chorus and record groups. The build quality is there, the silver is gorgeous the crankset is good looking, light and well built. We will see how well it setups and shifts.

[zross312]

Ashamed to admit that I've never ridden a modern Campy group - but I'll be the first to ask, why not have a look at Force 22? Lighter than R8000 and Chorus, cheaper too, and with really good hood ergonomics. I've got it on my Litespeed and got used to the shifting action pretty fast (coming from Ultegra on my previous bike). Just food for thought...

[pakora]

I have only held the R8020 levers in my hands and everything just felt right for a second.

I've never used modern Campy though, I'm coming from silver 10sp Chorus on the bike with all of the miles. And I like it a lot. But when I had 105 10sp on a race bike I was amazed at how reliable the shifting was even though it "felt" soft.

[Davist]

Campagnolo, it isn't even debatable. That shop owner is an idiot, or cheap.

good grief. sometimes the answers illuminate the poster more than provide any insight. Ultegra is good, has a 34t if needed/desired on 8000. Chorus is also fine. Here, I guess, the shop owner I know and trust is apparently an idiot as am I.

[zap]

Zaps new bike (trainer/beater) has new 8000 Ultegra. Mostly. The bike has Bontrager dual mount brakes which are pretty nice.

It works and looks good enough but rates a one (out of five) on the panache scale. There is a Crumpoton in the house with Campy SR so that loads up the fleets panache level quite a bit.

The 50/34 rings don't help. It's weird but I will give it time before purchasing a 52/36 or 53/39. But one could climb a wall with the 34/28 combo so have to keep that in mind.

Anyhow, if I had one road bike, it would have Campy groupo.

[jtbadge]

The quality is there across the board. Try everything - even SRAM! - and ride whatever has the most comfortable lever hoods and shift feel/motion to you.

That said, if you like how it feels on the bike you already have, my vote is for 6800.

[beeatnik]

Shhh...but I paid less for my new Chorus group than I’ve seen anyone offering R8000...and have pieced together R11 and SR11 for less than 9100...

But anyway, yes, good gloves do help...and really, the best shifters with gloves on are downtube, thumbies, bar-end, or eTap...but barring those, I’d rather shift Campy any cold/wet day over Shimano. And Shimano over Double-Tap for dam sure...unless I can start a ride and never have to downshift...I love how SRAM feels in one direction...its climbing back up the cassette that sux rox.

$771 with no upcharge for a mid cage RD and 11-34
https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-ultegra-r8000-groupset-102895.html

$1000 (only 52/36 - 12/27 so probably an extra $50 to $100 with proper cassette options)
http://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-chorus-11-speed-groupset-2015-1/

[R3awak3n]

$771 with no upcharge for a mid cage RD and 11-34
https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-ultegra-r8000-groupset-102895.html

$1000 (only 52/36 - 12/27 so probably an extra $50 to $100 with proper cassette options)
http://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-chorus-11-speed-groupset-2015-1/

dang chorus from england has gone up, I paid much less about a year ago

[oldguy00]

Sorry if someone else already suggested it, I breezed over the thread, but.....instead of spending the extra 350 on chorus, I say kick in a little extra on top of that and go with the newer Ultegra Di2.
I've used/tried most of the mech and electric groups out there. I'm not an expert, but I will say, once you go bl....er.....electric, you never go back!! :)

OK, I did just put some campy chorus on a used Colnago EP, but I am already thinking I should have put di2 on it...

[beeatnik]

dang chorus from england has gone up, I paid much less about a year ago

Seems the HO stuff has affected the availability of standard 2015 Revolution. Supplies are limited!

[FlashUNC]

dang chorus from england has gone up, I paid much less about a year ago

Pound and the Euro are strengthening against the dollar.

[tylercheung]

it would be vs the Yen, no? since both parts are coming from the UK...

[chiasticon]

$771 with no upcharge for a mid cage RD and 11-34
https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-ultegra-r8000-groupset-102895.html699 from chain reaction right now.

[GregL]

Eurobikeparts.com has Ultegra 8000 and 6800 in stock. I've purchased from them several times with good service and fast shipping.

$750 for 8000: https://www.eurobikeparts.com/proddetail.php?prod=SH-ULR8000
$660 for 6800: https://www.eurobikeparts.com/proddetail.php?prod=SH-UL6800

Greg

[FlashUNC]

it would be vs the Yen, no? since both parts are coming from the UK...

I was referring to the increase in Campy prices.

[beeatnik]

699 from chain reaction right now.

Great price but limited crank and cassette options.

[GonaSovereign]

People. Seriously. It's not so much a matter of splitting the dichotomy...you need to reframe the question.

Which group is best? There are two answers. If you prefer a Japanese group, you choose Superbe Pro. If you prefer European, you choose the Mavic SSC.

Stop confusing the OP.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4648/39902631031_0aaaf104c5_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/23N4q26)SunTour-Superbe-Pro-1985 (https://flic.kr/p/23N4q26)
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4606/25030935417_79f49df433_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/E8U632)c10e34406e9c77af5e341a9e2249d26baae35310 (https://flic.kr/p/E8U632)

[Clean39T]

People. Seriously. It's not so much a matter of splitting the dichotomy...you need to reframe the question.

Which group is best? There are two answers. If you prefer a Japanese group, you choose Superbe Pro. If you prefer European, you choose the Mavic SSC.

Stop confusing the OP.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4648/39902631031_0aaaf104c5_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/23N4q26)SunTour-Superbe-Pro-1985 (https://flic.kr/p/23N4q26)
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4606/25030935417_79f49df433_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/E8U632)c10e34406e9c77af5e341a9e2249d26baae35310 (https://flic.kr/p/E8U632)

Well played. I'd like to own a bike with each of those before my riding days are done..

[Luwabra]

R8000 is the best value in "premium" groups. If you're looking to build up a 5th or 6th bike and if you value your time and money, it's the way to go. What's impressed me about 8000 is how close it is to 9100 in function and finish. The 9100 calipers are best rim brakes on the market and 8000 are a close 2nd. The derailleurs are also pretty cool. However, as R3awak3n mentioned, the aesthetics don't work for every frame. So, go Chorus for a pretty or special bike (one on which you can be more indulgent) and go for 8000 on an utilitarian machine.

i didn't read everyones response and Ive never ran a campy anything so take that to heart heart .... but the R8000 is crazy smooth shiftiing. I love it on my allroad bike its so much better than anything ive run before.. don't laugh SRAM. lol but seriously its very good. the aesthetic is a more what hard edged somewhat contemporary i guess but im looking for bang for the buck almost always and I don't feel the need to look any further.

[Luwabra]

I still have to try my etap, its ready to go just waiting on the frame. I may be proven wrong and I am a big campy guy but from handling the group it is as nice as my chorus and record groups. The build quality is there, the silver is gorgeous the crankset is good looking, light and well built. We will see how well it setups and shifts.[/QUOTE]

Im interested in your feedback on etap.. i have buddies that have gone to it and loved it and the same amount of them went back to Di2 because they were not in love with the shifting (felt delayed)