So, which Pros used the Scott "Drop Bar"?

[martl]

i have a NOS Scott "drop bar" in my garage, and i wonder what to do with it. Following the good old collecters rule "i happened to have a spare watercage, so i bought a frame and built a bike to throw it onto" and my affiliation with pro-riders gear - what would be an appropriate frame to build with it? :)

http://www.bikepro.com/products/handlebars/hndlbars_jpg/s1s_scott_drop_in.jpg

[54ny77]

LeMond. Greg LeMond.

Yeaehhhhhh baby.

http://d7ab823tjbf2qywyt3grgq63.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/LuzArdiden-620x394.jpg

http://d7ab823tjbf2qywyt3grgq63.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/readers/roche%20kelly/2012.02.17.23.23.04/lemond90.jpg

[FlashUNC]

LeMond.

[bmeryman]

I love the Rock Shox fork in that second picture. Now that's a gravel bike.

[jtbadge]

Does anyone have any picture/video of the “drop-in” section of the bar actually being held? Seems like racers just used the traditional hand position.

[54ny77]

https://www.pezcyclingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/lemond-bars-brakes-920.jpg



Does anyone have any picture/video of the “drop-in” section of the bar actually being held? Seems like racers just used the traditional hand position.

[bigbill]

I rode them into the early aughts. I used the drop-ins for time trials and riding in breaks. One evening during a Pungo Death Ride in VA Beach, I was on the drop-ins in a fast group and I felt the right side move down. I shifted to the hoods and finished the ride that way. The bars had corroded below the shifter clamp and the only thing holding the right side on was the tape. After that, I used Cane Creek Speed bars for a few years. I liked the concept but it worked better for me when I was actually flexible.

[FlashUNC]

Does anyone have any picture/video of the “drop-in” section of the bar actually being held? Seems like racers just used the traditional hand position.

Still mass start legal I believe. Rode a pair for a bit. They're weird when you hit a bump on the lower drops and the left and right side kinda flex independently of what the other is doing. Definitely aero though.

[shovelhd]

Still mass start legal I believe.

Technically yes, but some LA's won't allow them.

[vqdriver]

oy, i had those. actually rode em for a bit in the 90s but never got too comfortable in the drop ins cuz i felt like i was kicking my own chest. this was before shallow drop, but even then it felt deeper than ye old cinelli bars. never did find a single bar tape set that covered the whole thing either.

had these monsters for a while on my dave scott centurion too. before stems with faceplates it was real fun swapping stems...

http://www.triathlon.org.au/Assets/Triathlon+Australia+Digital+Assets/ACT/Scott+DH+Bars.jpg

[djg21]

I rode them into the early aughts. I used the drop-ins for time trials and riding in breaks. One evening during a Pungo Death Ride in VA Beach, I was on the drop-ins in a fast group and I felt the right side move down. I shifted to the hoods and finished the ride that way. The bars had corroded below the shifter clamp and the only thing holding the right side on was the tape. After that, I used Cane Creek Speed bars for a few years. I liked the concept but it worked better for me when I was actually flexible.

Mine broke in half going into the last corner of the Harlem Fathersday Crit. It must have been in the late 80s or early 90s. I loved the position, but the bars were really flexible. I preferred the Scott rakes like the ones pictured below. They were really nice for TTs (before TT bikes became the norm) and breaks.

[mhespenheide]

Technically, they were the Scott "Drop In" bars, as they also sold a bar without the extensions called the "Drop" bar. Both were available in a standard version or "LF", lite flite, with butted aluminum (lighter and more flexible).

Seemed like Greg was the only racer who used them all that much. In USCF racing, I saw a lot more of the rakes mentioned above, an angular version of rakes from another company, or a straight bar that went across and bolted on to your existing handlebars (usually mounted at the front of the flats). I've forgotten the name of the other two... (edit: the angular ones were the Cane Creek Speed Bars, referred to above. Or something a heck of a lot like them.)

In the pro's, it always seemed like Cinelli Spinaci's were preferred.

[djg21]

Technically, they were the Scott "Drop In" bars, as they also sold a bar without the extensions called the "Drop" bar. Both were available in a standard version or "LF", lite flite, with butted aluminum (lighter and more flexible).

Seemed like Greg was the only racer who used them all that much. In USCF racing, I saw a lot more of the rakes mentioned above, an angular version of rakes from another company, or a straight bar that went across and bolted on to your existing handlebars (usually mounted at the front of the flats). I've forgotten the name of the other two... (edit: the angular ones were the Cane Creek Speed Bars, referred to above. Or something a heck of a lot like them.)

In the pro's, it always seemed like Cinelli Spinaci's were preferred.

The angular ones you reference were Cane Creek Speed Bars

I had one of the bars that you mention that spanned the front of your bars and clamped to the front of the drops. It helped beef up the bars of the day that were pretty flimsy and would flex back and forth, especially on my long cinnelli quill stem.

[GregL]

The angular ones you reference were Cane Creek Speed Bars

I had one of the bars that you mention that spanned the front of your bars and clamped to the front of the drops. It helped beef up the bars of the day that were pretty flimsy and would flex back and forth, especially on my long cinnelli quill stem.
The Cane Creek Speed Bars also work well for the stoker on a tandem TT bike.

Greg

[Wayne77]

Probably beside the point but I'd be surprised if that position was any more aero than both hands close together next to the stem clamp, elbows tucked in. Shields more of the chest cavity, etc. Looking at this picture, that position just doesn't look remotely aero to me... The lower extension of the bars, while putting the hands much lower, pulls them much further inward as well... forcing one to splay elbows outward so they don't hit the knees. Being lower is only one part of the equation. Lots of guys get really low but their elbows are all splayed out, creating a virtual parachute with the chest cavity...or they have their knees all splayed out. These bars just seem like a total head scratcher to me...just like so many 90's drillium wierd funky Sun-Ringle-esque purple anodized designs do. The guy could have his hands on the hoods, keeping his back the same angle, giving him more room to tuck his elbows in...hands closer to the brakes and much better steering leverage.

That's a major tangent of course....

https://www.pezcyclingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/lemond-bars-brakes-920.jpg

[peanutgallery]

Those bars were made out of aluminum with a quality level that would embarrass lawn chair manufacturers. Scary stuff

I rode them into the early aughts. I used the drop-ins for time trials and riding in breaks. One evening during a Pungo Death Ride in VA Beach, I was on the drop-ins in a fast group and I felt the right side move down. I shifted to the hoods and finished the ride that way. The bars had corroded below the shifter clamp and the only thing holding the right side on was the tape. After that, I used Cane Creek Speed bars for a few years. I liked the concept but it worked better for me when I was actually flexible.

[oliver1850]

In USCF racing, I saw a lot more of the rakes mentioned above, an angular version of rakes from another company, or a straight bar that went across and bolted on to your existing handlebars (usually mounted at the front of the flats). I've forgotten the name of the other two...



I still have a pair of Scott Rakes, a Breakaway Bar, and have two bikes with Drop-In bars. Tag on the Breakaway Bar box says 1994. I think the Drop-Ins go back a few years earlier and would be appropriate on any steel road bike from the early to mid 90s. Would look especially good on frames that LeMond rode from 1990 on. Mine are on a 531 Dawes and a 1991 NHX. I can't remember who all rode them but if you look at old races such as Tour duPont you will see them on quite a few bikes.

[carpediemracing]

The only big pro team that used them was Z because of Lemond, who championed bars for Scott. So an appropriate build would be a Lemond bike.

I was racing a lot in that time. I tried all the mass start bars and the clamp ons, and I still have most of them.

Spinaccis were never legal for use in US racing, just European. They were legal for pros I think 96-97? the years Ullrich and Riis won the Tour. The leadouts were stupid fast with EPO amped up riders, "aero" bars, and the start of aero wheels. Crazy fast. The other Spinacci bars were the 3ttt Tiramisu bars. They were similar but a bit longer, gave more of an aero/tri position. I have no Spinaccis but I still have one pair of Tiramisus. This shows my preference between the two bars. I used them during winter training, they were a nice way to stretch out on long rides.

For some reason the bars that went below the tops were legal in the US, probably because no bars were allowed to end pointing forward or up, and the bars had to be lower and shorter than whatever the brake lever defined. Spinaccis/Tiramisus went forward of the lever and ended pointing sort of forward. Rakes/etc ended pointing back and didn't break the brake lever silhouette in height or reach.

The Scott Drop Ins (the bars) and a clamp on that bridged the two sides of the drops (name escapes me) put your hands too close to saddle. It was like riding the tops but 15 cm lower. You really wanted to put your forearms through the tops of the bars to get the right position, and the Drop ins didn't put you in the right position because your hands were too close (i.e. the bars went across at the end of the drops so you effectively shortened your reach by at least your stem length if not more).

The clamp on Scott Rakes were much better, giving you the same position as holding the drops but much narrower. When I was using them I ended up putting them as close as possible - I could hold the bars and rest my thumbs on top of the front tire simply by straightening out the tip of my thumb. It made wiping tires an easy thing to do. The Cane Creek Speed bars worked also but put you wider and higher up. Of the two I preferred the Rakes with my old classic crit bend bars, the narrow low position was great.

Once I went to a compact bar I was unable to use the Rakes. Compact bars typically drop maybe 12 cm, the Rakes had something like 15-16 cm drop. So with compact bars the Rakes put my thumbs way too close to the spokes. I have a picture that's a bit ridiculous of my hands on the Rakes with a compact bar. My thumb is solidly below rim level and it's obvious my thumbs would hit my spokes easily. By default I had to use the Speed Bars. I haven't put them on for a couple years since I haven't been training enough to see the front of a race except when I sprint.

As recently as 2015 I actually used the Cane Creeks in a crit. I'd rather the Scott Rakes, which are narrower where you hold the bars, but because my compact bar drops sit at tire level, the Scott Rakes put my thumbs next to the spokes, and I mean right next to the spokes. If I flexed my thumb out the spokes would remove my thumbnail.

Rakes on my bike, when I first started using them regularly. They're still very far apart as it was the beginning of the season. As I got acclimated I moved them closer together, then as everyone else got stronger I took them off entirely :) That's Keith Berger behind me, racing as a 3, so it's a couple/few before he passed, maybe 1995?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_TbmplkIYLx8/TC1GGBJxnNI/AAAAAAAAC6c/ds3ozE7EBQc/s800/IMG_0118_edit.jpg.

Cane Creek Bars on my bike in 2010. They really complement the compact bars I'm using now, but I haven't used them in a couple years. I caught myself on camera using them in this clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCQSH8JPYiA&t=3m30s) (Keith Berger Memorial Crit) but I have zero pictures of me using the actual bars.

[mhespenheide]

I still have a pair of Scott Rakes, a Breakaway Bar, and have two bikes with Drop-In bars. Tag on the Breakaway Bar box says 1994.

Yes! The "Breakaway Bar". Thank you for feeding my half-forgotten memory.

[mhespenheide]

Weren't there also some Scott Drop-Ins that curved forwards over the front wheel, extending even past the normal "Drop-In" position? So that your hands ended up in a position similar to the Rakes?

//Edit: yes, these guys:
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/55/c3/45/55c3455b85b3d300f6bfa2292176c9b5--nice-watches-bicycle-components.jpg

With cables to help stiffen the handlebar (at least when pulling up on it), with a fairing/covering between the cables for better aerodynamics.


Ah, what will we poke fun from 2017-2018 fifteen years from now in future hindsight?

[oliver1850]

That's one I don't remember. Is that LeMond?

[BdaGhisallo]

That's one I don't remember. Is that LeMond?

Yep - that's Greg.

[martl]

Probably beside the point but I'd be surprised if that position was any more aero than both hands close together next to the stem clamp, elbows tucked in. Shields more of the chest cavity, etc. Looking at this picture, that position just doesn't look remotely aero to me... The lower extension of the bars, while putting the hands much lower, pulls them much further inward as well... forcing one to splay elbows outward so they don't hit the knees. Being lower is only one part of the equation. Lots of guys get really low but their elbows are all splayed out, creating a virtual parachute with the chest cavity...or they have their knees all splayed out. These bars just seem like a total head scratcher to me...just like so many 90's drillium wierd funky Sun-Ringle-esque purple anodized designs do. The guy could have his hands on the hoods, keeping his back the same angle, giving him more room to tuck his elbows in...hands closer to the brakes and much better steering leverage.

That's a major tangent of course....

I agree; the same is true for spinaccis, though. Its not so much about giving a position that couldn't be achieved otherwise, but about making it as comfortable as possible.
Also agree about the elbows. Which is why i still prefer the "Abdou" position on downhills over going to the drops.

[carpediemracing]

Weren't there also some Scott Drop-Ins that curved forwards over the front wheel, extending even past the normal "Drop-In" position? So that your hands ended up in a position similar to the Rakes?

//Edit: yes, these guys:
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/55/c3/45/55c3455b85b3d300f6bfa2292176c9b5--nice-watches-bicycle-components.jpg

With cables to help stiffen the handlebar (at least when pulling up on it), with a fairing/covering between the cables for better aerodynamics.


Ah, what will we poke fun from 2017-2018 fifteen years from now in future hindsight?


Those bars were never released to the public.

In that era there were a few people that experimented with the reinforcing struts to the fork.

Also the Drop Ins happen to accept mountain bike bar ends so it was possible to replicate the TT bar curve forward on regular Drop Ins. I have pictures somewhere of my winter training set up where I have some purple bar ends extending forward off of the Scott Drop Ins.

And there it is...
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xZlKI2J_S90/WmiGm1jvOXI/AAAAAAAAJlQ/EYU9dMzjQjc8PW7hJuYIcu70CWuwJ3KgwCLcBGAs/s800/SCN_0034.jpg

[carpediemracing]

I agree; the same is true for spinaccis, though. Its not so much about giving a position that couldn't be achieved otherwise, but about making it as comfortable as possible.
Also agree about the elbows. Which is why i still prefer the "Abdou" position on downhills over going to the drops.

The Spinaccis were handy when doing power type climbs, seated, longer ones. For flatter roads they were good too.

The UCI made them illegal but riders ended up doing the Steve Bauer thing (which he did after crashing his TT bike to complete the TT on his regular road bike) of just resting their forearms on the tops. To me that's not as safe as holding onto a bar like a Spinacci, but I understand the point of the rule.

I totally agree that the Drop In position isn't ideal. Elbows too wide to clear knees, hands too low so more arm exposed to the wind. The Rakes and Speed bars address that for longer torsoed, shorter legged riders like me. I can get my elbows together in front of my knees thanks to my long torso and short femurs, my forearms are more parallel to the ground, I can sort of turtle my head down when down low, so it's a better position. Not very sustainable, to be honest, but effective for the short term.

[Mark McM]

Yes! The "Breakaway Bar". Thank you for feeding my half-forgotten memory.

And let's not forget the similar, but airfoil shaped, Hooker Legal Speed bar:

https://www.pedalroom.com/p/hooker-elite-cat-1-18674_43.jpg

I've got a set sitting in my basement, but haven't gotten around to actually mounting them yet.

[bigbill]

I had a Break Away bar too. The hot setup for time trials was to put your Lemond Clip-ons on the breakaway bar but only if you had a 26 year old back.

[sales guy]

I would just like to comment on how Greg is the GOAT. With everything he brought to cycling. Yes, Eddy and others might have more and bigger wins. But the man brought us
Aerobars
drop in bars
clip ons- like Spinaccis
road suspension forks
full suspension road bikes
power meters
bike computers
sunglasses
titanium frames to prominence
carbon to the pro tour
an American winning the Tour
an american winning the world championships
Taco Bell- kidding!
cycling on the front of magazines like Sports Illustrated
clipless pedals to prominence
electronic shifting
the super bike- Lotus 110 as used by the Gan team
million dollar salaries for pros
cyclocross to the US
rear mount trainers

All of those things he either did first or brought to notice by us US and even the Global cycling community. If you think about all the stuff he did, his is one of the greatest of all time. And it sucks how he wasn't able to accomplish more due to him being shot and his health issues.

[William]

I've run Spinaccis, Rake's, and Speedbars at various times in the past. I wouldn't be surprised if I throw them on again in the future just for the sake of multiple position choices. I don't have the Spinaccis anymore but I still have the other two...






William

[Clean39T]

I would just like to comment on how Greg is the GOAT. With everything he brought to cycling. Yes, Eddy and others might have more and bigger wins. But the man brought us

Aerobars

drop in bars

clip ons- like Spinaccis

road suspension forks

full suspension road bikes

power meters

bike computers

sunglasses

titanium frames to prominence

carbon to the pro tour

an American winning the Tour

an american winning the world championships

Taco Bell- kidding!

cycling on the front of magazines like Sports Illustrated

clipless pedals to prominence

electronic shifting

the super bike- Lotus 110 as used by the Gan team

million dollar salaries for pros

cyclocross to the US

rear mount trainers



All of those things he either did first or brought to notice by us US and even the Global cycling community. If you think about all the stuff he did, his is one of the greatest of all time. And it sucks how he wasn't able to accomplish more due to him being shot and his health issues.


https://youtu.be/KJVRDoaIyLs

Enjoy..

[Clean39T]

Bit of thread drift, but remember these?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180124/88afd671987feb2663506326d3616ee7.jpg

I put a pair on my first MTB circa 1992 at age 13. I was an early Fred you might say...

[GregL]

Bit of thread drift, but remember these?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180124/88afd671987feb2663506326d3616ee7.jpg

I put a pair on my first MTB circa 1992 at age 13. I was an early Fred you might say...
The Scott AT-4! My wife still has a those bars on a 1993 Bridgestone MTB. She loves them and won't replace them until they break.

Greg

[sales guy]

https://youtu.be/KJVRDoaIyLs

Enjoy..

I've seen it. It's a good bit of video. It's funny, cause that list I posted isn't even everything. And it's incredibly hard not to talk to him about that stuff and his racing days. As a cyclist for so long and someone who was pushed into cycling watching him it's very cool to talk to him. But Like I said, so hard not to pester him about his past. So instead he made me breakfast and we talked about current stuff and the race we were watching.

[jamesdak]

I would just like to comment on how Greg is the GOAT. With everything he brought to cycling.

All of those things he either did first or brought to notice by us US and even the Global cycling community. If you think about all the stuff he did, his is one of the greatest of all time. And it sucks how he wasn't able to accomplish more due to him being shot and his health issues.

So true! That's why his bikes have the featured spot in my bike cave.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166811291.jpg

Although I do need to find room for this one now.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166875346.jpg

[sales guy]

So true! That's why his bikes have the featured spot in my bike cave.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166811291.jpg

Although I do need to find room for this one now.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166875346.jpg

NICE!
What size are those?

[batman1425]

(Keith Berger Memorial Crit)

That course and race (in 2005) was my second ever race and first crit.

[FlashUNC]

I would just like to comment on how Greg is the GOAT. With everything he brought to cycling. Yes, Eddy and others might have more and bigger wins. But the man brought us
Aerobars
drop in bars
clip ons- like Spinaccis
road suspension forks
full suspension road bikes
power meters
bike computers
sunglasses
titanium frames to prominence
carbon to the pro tour
an American winning the Tour
an american winning the world championships
Taco Bell- kidding!
cycling on the front of magazines like Sports Illustrated
clipless pedals to prominence
electronic shifting
the super bike- Lotus 110 as used by the Gan team
million dollar salaries for pros
cyclocross to the US
rear mount trainers

All of those things he either did first or brought to notice by us US and even the Global cycling community. If you think about all the stuff he did, his is one of the greatest of all time. And it sucks how he wasn't able to accomplish more due to him being shot and his health issues.

I love Greg and all, but sunglasses? Cmon.

Fausto would like a word.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/f/f8/Fausto_Coppi_Trofeo_Baracchi_1953.jpg

[mhespenheide]

Bit of thread drift, but remember these?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180124/88afd671987feb2663506326d3616ee7.jpg

I put a pair on my first MTB circa 1992 at age 13. I was an early Fred you might say...

I would totally rock those on a townie bike, quizzical looks be damned.

[jamesdak]

NICE!
What size are those?

Tourmelet - 53 Cm
Ventoux -54 CM
Custom - 55 CM
Maillot Jaune - 56 CM
Gan GLX - 56 CM

[sales guy]

I love Greg and all, but sunglasses? Cmon.

Fausto would like a word.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/f/f8/Fausto_Coppi_Trofeo_Baracchi_1953.jpg

I also said to prominence. Not just being first. Him and Oakley really pushed glasses into the peloton. You have to admit that.

[GregL]

I also said to prominence. Not just being first. Him and Oakley really pushed glasses into the peloton. You have to admit that.
Hinault rocked the Ray-Bans, but I have to agree that LeMond was the first rider to popularize "modern" sports sunglasses.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-80-5HPKjHJk/U2lYa8dx0xI/AAAAAAAAVH0/kroy8jEt8fg/s1600/BernieShades.JPG

[martl]

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166875346.jpg

Loving it, that colorscheme is absolute ACE! :)

[bikinchris]

I use mine as a stoker bar on my tandem. It's the widest version.

Scott also claimed those bars were more aero than other companies aero bars.

[smontanaro]

A Masi Gran Criterium I bought a few years ago came with a set. As I recall, they weren't heat treated, so were awfully flexible. I can't imagine anyone would actually *want* to use them, unless (like Sir Greg, perhaps?) They were paid to.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[Hindmost]

I would just like to comment on how Greg is the GOAT...the man brought us


Your list makes a lot of sense to me. I am trying to recall the Lemond/cyclocross connection. Do examples come to mind?

[54ny77]

Front shock was for Paris Roubaix.

Ahh the days when the top pros rode the full season in all the big races....

Your list makes a lot of sense to me. I am trying to recall the Lemond/cyclocross connection. Do examples come to mind?

[carpediemracing]

I would just like to comment on how Greg is the GOAT. With everything he brought to cycling. Yes, Eddy and others might have more and bigger wins. But the man brought us
Aerobars
drop in bars
clip ons- like Spinaccis
road suspension forks
full suspension road bikes
power meters
bike computers
sunglasses
titanium frames to prominence
carbon to the pro tour
an American winning the Tour
an american winning the world championships
Taco Bell- kidding!
cycling on the front of magazines like Sports Illustrated
clipless pedals to prominence
electronic shifting
the super bike- Lotus 110 as used by the Gan team
million dollar salaries for pros
cyclocross to the US
rear mount trainers

All of those things he either did first or brought to notice by us US and even the Global cycling community. If you think about all the stuff he did, his is one of the greatest of all time. And it sucks how he wasn't able to accomplish more due to him being shot and his health issues.

Although I'm a huge fan of Lemond I'd disagree with the super bikes. Super bikes - I'd consider the Renault TT bike to the first aero bike made specifically for TTs, and it was instigated by the team (Guimard?) rather than Lemond himself. Moser of course introduced the disc wheel with his Hour Record attempt. And the US team had the most radical funny bikes in the 1984 Olympics, and that triggered a technology war among richer Olympic countries.

[sales guy]

Your list makes a lot of sense to me. I am trying to recall the Lemond/cyclocross connection. Do examples come to mind?

With him being an Early American who trained, lived and raced in Europe, he brought cyclocross here when he came back. There are pics/races of him in the 80's training on a cross bike and running thru the woods and snow in Minnesota. Back then, cross was still the Euro Pros way of winter training. We just didn't have it here. And of course we didn't have it like we do now where there's tons of cross races. The Kona Jake the Snake and the Redline cross bikes pushed cross into the masses. But Greg helped bring it over to the US.

Although I'm a huge fan of Lemond I'd disagree with the super bikes. Super bikes - I'd consider the Renault TT bike to the first aero bike made specifically for TTs, and it was instigated by the team (Guimard?) rather than Lemond himself. Moser of course introduced the disc wheel with his Hour Record attempt. And the US team had the most radical funny bikes in the 1984 Olympics, and that triggered a technology war among richer Olympic countries.

There were a few bikes like the Renault/Gitane like you mentioned. But when the Lotus came out used by the GAN team and Boardman, you've got Pinarello, Look and many others coming out and using those in the Tour. Yes, the Zipp 2001 was out but not really used in pro road racing. With the Lotus it pushed super bikes into the masses.

There were tons of "aero tubed" bikes used but LeMond, Merckx, Hinault, Fignon and many many others. There were Raleighs and many others. But nothing like the Lotus as a commonly used bike. Or the Pinarello the Indurain or Riis or others used like the Look on the Once team.

My opinion of course. But I think he helped push into the masses/prominence or actually brought out first all of those on the list and many more. Eddy did drillium and his training techniques. LeMond did all of those as well as the focus of one single race which of course was used by so many people afterwards VS training for a whole season.

Just in the tech LeMond brought out makes him one of the greatest people in cycling. Aside from his racing and wins.

[martl]

Although I'm a huge fan of Lemond I'd disagree with the super bikes. Super bikes - I'd consider the Renault TT bike to the first aero bike made specifically for TTs, and it was instigated by the team (Guimard?) rather than Lemond himself. Moser of course introduced the disc wheel with his Hour Record attempt. And the US team had the most radical funny bikes in the 1984 Olympics, and that triggered a technology war among richer Olympic countries.
Guimard was Systeme U, later Castorama. As Guimards team supplied their own (Maxisports) gear, it was easier for them to be progressive than those teams supplied by a general vendor like Merckx, who possibly had little interest promoting special TT bikes with little market importance.
Then, around 1990 Triathlon got big and started to bring new ideas to time trialling. from 1992-1995 most teams would use whatever latest tech they could get their hands on. Telekom used FES TT bikes which had a similar status to the Lotus, originally made exclusively for the german olymic team. Similar situation with Pinarello, who supplied the italian team as well.

So, i'm not entirely sure it was all Lemonds doing...

edit: just watching the 1993 prologue - Zülle (ONCE) on a CFK Look with Corima 4-spokes, it seems

[BdaGhisallo]

Guimard was Systeme U, later Castorama. As Guimards team supplied their own (Maxisports) gear, it was easier for them to be progressive than those teams supplied by a general vendor like Merckx, who possibly had little interest promoting special TT bikes with little market importance.
Then, around 1990 Triathlon got big and started to bring new ideas to time trialling. from 1992-1995 most teams would use whatever latest tech they could get their hands on. Telekom used FES TT bikes which had a similar status to the Lotus, originally made exclusively for the german olymic team. Similar situation with Pinarello, who supplied the italian team as well.

So, i'm not entirely sure it was all Lemonds doing...

edit: just watching the 1993 prologue - Zülle (ONCE) on a CFK Look with Corima 4-spokes, it seems

The Systeme U team, of course, was what the Renault team morphed into when Renault withdrew their sponsorship at the end of 1985. It was the same team structure (though different ownership) with the same management team. Renault actually owned the team when they sponsored it and Guimard then set up a company to assume the ownership and infrastructure of the team. Maxi Sport was the name of the company and Fignon was a business partner of Guimard in that.

Maxisports only started supplying itself with bikes after the team's sponsorship from Raleigh ran out in 1991, if my memory serves and Fignon had moved on by then to Bugno's Gatorade team for the '92 season.

[Luwabra]

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/bop/d/scott-lemond-drop-in-bars/6419993709.html

get your own right here!!! no affiliation

[martl]

The Systeme U team, of course, was what the Renault team morphed into when Renault withdrew their sponsorship at the end of 1985. It was the same team structure (though different ownership) with the same management team. Renault actually owned the team when they sponsored it and Guimard then set up a company to assume the ownership and infrastructure of the team. Maxi Sport was the name of the company and Fignon was a business partner of Guimard in that.

Maxisports only started supplying itself with bikes after the team's sponsorship from Raleigh ran out in 1991, if my memory serves and Fignon had moved on by then to Bugno's Gatorade team for the '92 season.

True, but that "Raleigh" that Marie and Fignon used in the 1990 prologue looks strikingly like my 1992 Maxisports
Its not the same frame, but details are alike - skinny fork, angles, gussets

1990 Fignon on Raleigh
https://fotos.rennrad-news.de/f3/4/454/454407-yga2lprnvy39-fignon-large.jpg (https://fotos.rennrad-news.de/p/454407)

1991 Raleigh team TT
https://secure.surveymonkey.com/_resources/10814/26710814/a2e3a4c6-3ae5-48fd-b059-3f81e3435200.jpg

1992 Maxi (Th.Marie)
https://fotos.rennrad-news.de/f/lr/sa/lrsalt60osh2/medium_IMG_1502_.jpg?0 (https://fotos.rennrad-news.de/p/360405)

[BdaGhisallo]

True, but that "Raleigh" that Marie and Fignon used in the 1990 prologue looks strikingly like my 1992 Maxisports (Ragleigh pic appar. '91 but, judging by grainy youtube footage, is the same as or extremely similar to 1990).
Its not the same frame, but details are alike - skinny fork, angles, gussets

https://secure.surveymonkey.com/_resources/10814/26710814/a2e3a4c6-3ae5-48fd-b059-3f81e3435200.jpg

https://fotos.rennrad-news.de/f/lr/sa/lrsalt60osh2/medium_IMG_1502_.jpg?0 (https://fotos.rennrad-news.de/p/360405)

They could very well be the same frame or iterations/evolutions of the same design. My point was that until the Raleigh sponsorship deal expired, Guimard's team in their various guises always had "frameset sponsorship" with companies paying to put their name on the downtubes. In those days it wasn't at all unusual for the top pros to have their frames built by their preferred builders and painted in the official team liveries. That was much easier to do when all frames were round steel tubed and all pretty much looked the same.

I think most of the Maxi Sport frames were actually built under contract by Cyfac any how.

[martl]

They could very well be the same frame or iterations/evolutions of the same design. My point was that until the Raleigh sponsorship deal expired, Guimard's team in their various guises always had "frameset sponsorship" with companies paying to put their name on the downtubes. In those days it wasn't at all unusual for the top pros to have their frames built by their preferred builders and painted in the official team liveries. That was much easier to do when all frames were round steel tubed and all pretty much looked the same.

I think most of the Maxi Sport frames were actually built under contract by Cyfac any how.

The Maxi is different in details (seat cluster, highly ovalized tubes). Agree about Cyfac, that's what i heard, too

[sales guy]

For those that posted about the Raleigh and the others above, those were made by Cyfac in France. But I don't consider those "super bikes" unlike the Lotus and others. Those are incredibly cool. But nothing like these.
With the exception of the Gitane one, the others are after the Lotus or Gan bikes- 94 and after. Gan was using them in 1992.

[choke]

Bit of thread drift, but remember these?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180124/88afd671987feb2663506326d3616ee7.jpg

I put a pair on my first MTB circa 1992 at age 13. I was an early Fred you might say...This is mine, pic is from 1989.

http://cycle.ciocctoo.com/cdale.JPG

[martl]

For those that posted about the Raleigh and the others above, those were made by Cyfac in France. But I don't consider those "super bikes" unlike the Lotus and others. Those are incredibly cool. But nothing like these.
With the exception of the Gitane one, the others are after the Lotus or Gan bikes- 94 and after. Gan was using them in 1992.

They paved the way. The aforementioned Zülle Look was pretty space-age, i'd say.
Late 90ies, i had a chance to see one of the Parigi at the munich 6-days, was an exhibit. Wasn't so super from close by, tbh. Looked like it was assembled by a plumber with a monkey wrench.

[sales guy]

They paved the way. The aforementioned Zülle Look was pretty space-age, i'd say.
Late 90ies, i had a chance to see one of the Parigi at the munich 6-days, was an exhibit. Wasn't so super from close by, tbh. Looked like it was assembled by a plumber with a monkey wrench.

I agree they paved the way. But LeMond really pushed the edge and after his team started using the Lotus and his Boomerang frame for pro road racing, so did others. He didn't do it first, but he did push it into prominence.

[El Chaba]

The founder of Cyfac, Francis Quillon, had made a pretty good business of supplying custom frames to teams and individual riders even before the creation of Cyfac. In the 1970's-mid 1980's he was the head builder at Meral. They did quite a bit of custom work under him and supplied a few teams under their own name as well (e.g. RMO). He may have even built the last of the Gitanes for Renault/Gitane, but he definitely built the Raleighs and MaxiSports bikes that were supplied to Syteme U, Super U, and Castorama. A Quillon-built bike is the best of the best in its time, and he really pushed the envelope for both design and craftsmanship.

[mistermo]

So true! That's why his bikes have the featured spot in my bike cave.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166811291.jpg


Is that Mr. -7 presiding over your prized collection of Lemond bikes?

[Black Dog]

Is that Mr. -7 presiding over your prized collection of Lemond bikes?

I will eat my bibs if it is.

:eek:

[jamesdak]

Is that Mr. -7 presiding over your prized collection of Lemond bikes?


Holy crap, is it????? :eek::eek::eek:

If so, that will be burned today!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

[Mark McM]

Although I'm a huge fan of Lemond I'd disagree with the super bikes. Super bikes - I'd consider the Renault TT bike to the first aero bike made specifically for TTs, and it was instigated by the team (Guimard?) rather than Lemond himself. Moser of course introduced the disc wheel with his Hour Record attempt. And the US team had the most radical funny bikes in the 1984 Olympics, and that triggered a technology war among richer Olympic countries.

Well, the "innovative technology" thing is all relative. UCI racing has never used the latest technology - in fact, one of the goals of the UCI has been to limit technology. This first came to a head in the 1930s, when racers started using recumbents and fairings to set speed records. The UCI outlawed these innovations, and have outlawed many subsequent innovations.

For example, Moser was not the first to use disc wheels -the use of disc wheels for aerodynamics was first used in the late 1800s (aerodynamic disc wheels are discussed in the book, "Bicycles & Tricycles: A Classic Treatise on Their Design and Construction," by Archibald Sharp, published in 1896). Many non-UCI bicycle speed records were set with disc wheels long before Moser set the UCI hour record.

[martl]

I agree they paved the way. But LeMond really pushed the edge and after his team started using the Lotus and his Boomerang frame for pro road racing, so did others. He didn't do it first, but he did push it into prominence.

That may well be the case, especially in the english laguage regions. I wouldn't mind get my hands on one of those Lotusses, either. Anyone knows one up for sale...?

[BdaGhisallo]

I agree they paved the way. But LeMond really pushed the edge and after his team started using the Lotus and his Boomerang frame for pro road racing, so did others. He didn't do it first, but he did push it into prominence.

Boomerang frame?

[sales guy]

That may well be the case, especially in the english laguage regions. I wouldn't mind get my hands on one of those Lotusses, either. Anyone knows one up for sale...?

There was a shop in California that had one up for awhile. Had Campy Record on it. Every so often you'll find them for sale. A place in Britain, Target Composites has done incredible repairs on them. He knows Mike Burrows and Burrows and him have done them.

[sales guy]

Boomerang frame?

LeMond V2 Boomerang

[Tandem Rider]

I think I still have a pair of Scott 100k bars in a box somewhere. Far from mass start legal but unique and interesting never the less, only good for one thing.

[Hindmost]

LeMond V2 Boomerang

Is that an American Classic seatpost in the first one?

[sales guy]

Is that an American Classic seatpost in the first one?

yes. titanium

[drewellison]

A young Chris Horner

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180126/089adb59821ce56b07bda3716262ff6d.jpg

[steelbikerider]

http://www.trend-chaser.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2017/11/lae-5.jpg

[donevwil]

http://images.dailyhive.com/20170619095256/Winner-Lance-Armstrong-in-1991Gastown-Grand-Prix.jpg