Great Bob Lutz quote

[duff_duffy]

“I maintain that a lot of what we herald as the latest, greatest technological achievements turn out to be, in reality, expensive distractions of no inherent value”

Amazing how similar auto industry can be to bike industry. I’m looking at you press fit bottom brackets, road disc brakes, and seatpost topper things that wanna replace seatposts! Anything else I’m missing? Electro shifting, wider tires, 29ers maybe???

[BdaGhisallo]

As long as I can keep my DI2 and my 25mm tubs, you can have everything else you listed.

This covers everything you're referring to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=166&v=Jj0uBQ7j5c4

[JLQ]

I'd add boost hubs to the list but would like 29ers to remain.

[FlashUNC]

Counterpoint: Bob Lutz is a dinosaur who thinks automotive progress peaked with the GTO.

[54ny77]

He's either gone of the rails or talking his own book on e-vehicle investments.

That aside, he brought some killer dionsaurs to market, the Viper among them. And later championed the go-fast cars at GM.



Counterpoint: Bob Lutz is a dinosaur who thinks automotive progress peaked with the GTO.

[duff_duffy]

I’m a dinosaur as well. Forgot to add carbon frames to the trash heap. Metal is where it’s at!

[FlashUNC]

He's either gone of the rails or talking his own book on e-vehicle investments.

That aside, he brought some killer dionsaurs to market, the Viper among them. And later championed the go-fast cars at GM.

Tough to argue his muscle and track car bonfides. But maybe not the guy to listen to about the future of the auto industry.

[54ny77]

He's invested in the Fisker e-car, or at least was (hence my comment about talking his book re: future of vehicles).

That was a beautifully designed sedan. I got a ride in one back when they came out, it was far ahead of its time. Too bad it went bust. Last I read, a CHinese company bought the brand, or name, or something like that.



Tough to argue his muscle and track car bonfides. But maybe not the guy to listen to about the future of the auto industry.

[Mikej]

I'd add boost hubs to the list but would like 29ers to remain.

Dude, Boost is soo 2017 - its 157mm now - geez

[eippo1]

I know that we have come leaps and bounds in terms of really safe cars, but I do wish we had sunk our marbles into something a bit different than bluetooth, navigation, and other distract able conveniences.

Also, could you imagine if we did have flying cars and all these distractions? It would be a total mess.

[nicrump]

“I maintain that a lot of what we herald as the latest, greatest technological achievements turn out to be, in reality, expensive distractions of no inherent value”

Amazing how similar auto industry can be to bike industry. I’m looking at you press fit bottom brackets, road disc brakes, and seatpost topper things that wanna replace seatposts! Anything else I’m missing? Electro shifting, wider tires, 29ers maybe???

pneumatic tires, alloyed metals and perhaps threaded fasteners. who needs em. gimme a wooden stick and a dirt path and i'll be fine.

[Tickdoc]

This thread has me wanting an old v8.

[FlashUNC]

This thread has me wanting an old v8.

Pushrod 4 Lyfe

[MattTuck]

Well, let me tell you something. It is true that some of those gains happen at the margin, and the true benefit may be imperceptible. But over time, these marginal gains accumulate into real improvements.

https://jamesclear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/marginal-gains.jpg

[572cv]

“I maintain that a lot of what we herald as the latest, greatest technological achievements turn out to be, in reality, expensive distractions of no inherent value”

Amazing how similar auto industry can be to bike industry. I’m looking at you press fit bottom brackets, road disc brakes, and seatpost topper things that wanna replace seatposts! Anything else I’m missing? Electro shifting, wider tires, 29ers maybe???

Except for the Citroen DS example. No other production car introduced more new tech and innovation, more coherently and cleverly, ever. So, there is at least one example. Maybe something in the bike industry hits this mark, but I can't think of it. Maybe the invention of the mountain bike or something is up there.

[summilux]

This is the same Bob Lutz who doesn't believe in climate change and was on the executive team that drove GM into bankruptcy. Just go away please. Now if Neil Degrasse Tyson said that, I'd listen.

[bicycletricycle]

It is easy to be cynical about "technological advancement", however, would we all ride wood rimed fixed gears from the 30's?

It is easy to look back and pick and choose when you think the best mix of technology was achieved, it is unlikely that you will be right.




“I maintain that a lot of what we herald as the latest, greatest technological achievements turn out to be, in reality, expensive distractions of no inherent value”

Amazing how similar auto industry can be to bike industry. I’m looking at you press fit bottom brackets, road disc brakes, and seatpost topper things that wanna replace seatposts! Anything else I’m missing? Electro shifting, wider tires, 29ers maybe???

[ftf]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[taz-t]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Not if it's digital... ;)

[Mr. Pink]

Counterpoint: Bob Lutz is a dinosaur who thinks automotive progress peaked with the GTO.

Nope. Industry player well after the GTO period, he knows what he speaks of. Love his take on Tesla as a very flawed, overhyped company. He has no real problem with electric cars, just the B.S. coming from of the supporters, both in the media and Wall Street/Silicon Valley PE types for badly run companies. He knows how to make and sell cars, muscle or electric. Tech geeks don't, it seems, yet.

[dancinkozmo]

This is the same Bob Lutz who doesn't believe in climate change and was on the executive team that drove GM into bankruptcy. Just go away please. Now if Neil Degrasse Tyson said that, I'd listen.


absolutely....lutz is a putz

[Kirk007]

“I maintain that a lot of what we herald as the latest, greatest technological achievements turn out to be, in reality, expensive distractions of no inherent value”

Amazing how similar auto industry can be to bike industry. I’m looking at you press fit bottom brackets, road disc brakes, and seatpost topper things that wanna replace seatposts! Anything else I’m missing? Electro shifting, wider tires, 29ers maybe???

Inherent value is a challenging phrase as applied to what for most of us is now a recreational apparatus and secondarily a method of transportation. From the recreational use perspective, I would argue that a technological achievement that enhances the user experience, creates a new or different experience or broadens the use group has "inherent value." This would include many of the developments you've listed.

[FlashUNC]

Nope. Industry player well after the GTO period, he knows what he speaks of. Love his take on Tesla as a very flawed, overhyped company. He has no real problem with electric cars, just the B.S. coming from of the supporters, both in the media and Wall Street/Silicon Valley PE types for badly run companies. He knows how to make and sell cars, muscle or electric. Tech geeks don't, it seems, yet.

I never said he wasn't an industry player. Just that his belief in a big stonking V8 up front in a car and to hell with gas mileage, safety or really anything else that doesn't make the car go as fast as possible is his MO.

Latest thing he's doing with Fisker -- at least as of 2016 -- was ripping out the guts of Fiskers and putting in, guess what, supercharged V8 GM LS9s in them. https://jalopnik.com/bob-lutz-and-henrik-fiskers-scrappy-new-car-company-aim-1786857081

He's a one-trick pony. Its a helluva trick, but its still just one trick. Show me Bob's commitment to anything other than a muscle car like an AWD hot hatch, or bringing performance to diesel, or being the performance electric guru -- why GM decided he needed to be the face of the Chevy Volt launch was the funniest thing going for awhile -- and I'd be amazed at a leopard changing his spots.

But all evidence otherwise indicates he sells cars to the Boomer testosterone crowd, and that's about it.

[Mr. Pink]

Yeah, that's the streotype. But I just love listening to him rip apart Musk as the grifter he is. And, after all, America still wants muscle, in the form of monster trucks. As I said, he's in the business of selling cars, not saving the world, sucking up the taxpayer dime to go to Mars.

[ftf]

Yeah, that's the streotype. But I just love listening to him rip apart Musk as the grifter he is. And, after all, America still wants muscle, in the form of monster trucks. As I said, he's in the business of selling cars, not saving the world, sucking up the taxpayer dime to go to Mars.

Having read Bob Lutz's book:"Car Guys vs. Bean Counters"

I can see why you like him, especially given the views you espouse in this thread.

Conversely, Flash is correct about Lutz, and portrays him correctly.

The only thing that I took from Lutz's book that resonated with me, was the idea that consumers aren't stupid, and they can tell a quality product vs. one that has been gutted to please the "bean counters".

[54ny77]

He sure knows where the domestic automaker bread has been buttered the past couple of decades.

The bigger and more frightening prospect to automakers is younger generation who eschew cars altogether, opting for more automation, vehicle sharing, more public transit. Then it's a function of innovate or die. Just like the words on the inside of my Tarmac fork blade!



But all evidence otherwise indicates he sells cars to the Boomer testosterone crowd, and that's about it.

[Burnette]

“I maintain that a lot of what we herald as the latest, greatest technological achievements turn out to be, in reality, expensive distractions of no inherent value”

Amazing how similar auto industry can be to bike industry. I’m looking at you press fit bottom brackets, road disc brakes, and seatpost topper things that wanna replace seatposts! Anything else I’m missing? Electro shifting, wider tires, 29ers maybe???

Oh yes, the Dandy Horse! No cranks, pedals, chains... And real men didn't sit! You ran and barely sat on that piece of leather and wood slab that made you raw, it was the old world's version of the fixed gear and all you needed!

Look at ya! With yer shifters, gears and funny shoes, sitting down all the time... and what's that on yer head? You don't own a top hat? Just a bunch of expensive distractions I say!

Somebody find me a stick, It seems that I've stepped in some poo.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_pY6dH0-dm7E/TL0ozMjTLLI/AAAAAAAAAF8/YsOarFHhiJk/s1600/dandy_on_dandy_horse.jpg

[Mr. Pink]

Having read Bob Lutz's book:"Car Guys vs. Bean Counters"

I can see why you like him, especially given the views you espouse in this thread.

Conversely, Flash is correct about Lutz, and portrays him correctly.

The only thing that I took from Lutz's book that resonated with me, was the idea that consumers aren't stupid, and they can tell a quality product vs. one that has been gutted to please the "bean counters".



Wait, what? "The views I expose in this thread?" Lighten up, Francis.

I like him because he talks over all the present day BS that attracts literally billions in capital and doesn't deliver product at a level of quality and quantity at a reasonable price that the public wants. Period. It's not a view to expouse, it's common sense business. He's been there all through the industry transitions since the 60s, and his job, like most jobs that executives in the large auto companies, depended upon selling cars profitably, period. And, lord knows, he's seen a whole lot of tumultuous times during that period. He also was an executive at BMW, you know, that fancy fancy Euro company that muscle car heads love to mock. He's seen a lot of dumb ideas come out of factories and die in showrooms, no matter how well intentioned they were. He's also cringed at the K car and the Cadillac Cimmaron, too. I'd listen to him any day over Musk about the future of the industry.

[ftf]

Wait, what? "The views I expose in this thread?" Lighten up, Francis.

I like him because he talks over all the present day BS that attracts literally billions in capital and doesn't deliver product at a level of quality and quantity at a reasonable price that the public wants. Period. It's not a view to expouse, it's common sense business. He's been there all through the industry transitions since the 60s, and his job, like most jobs that executives in the large auto companies, depended upon selling cars profitably, period. And, lord knows, he's seen a whole lot of tumultuous times during that period. He also was an executive at BMW, you know, that fancy fancy Euro company that muscle car heads love to mock. He's seen a lot of dumb ideas come out of factories and die in showrooms, no matter how well intentioned they were. He's also cringed at the K car and the Cadillac Cimmaron, too. I'd listen to him any day over Musk about the future of the industry.

Yes, it's obvious why you like Lutz because of what you have said in this thread, he connects with your views, that's neither here nor there, I don't see how that needs me to "lighten up".

And I know a decent bit about Lutz, I know about his time at BMW, and all of that, not impressed with him as a person or as a business person.