Michlen Pro Race 25

[OldDog]

I needed a new set of tires and took the advice of many here to try out a pair of 25mm. Today I purchased a pair of Pro Race 25s, mounted them up and got back a bit ago from a 40ish miler. I like 'em. Ran them at about 90#s.
Smoothed out the ride without any feeling of loss of speed. Grippy. Feels round and cushy.

Was riding Conti 3000's in 23. I had tried a pair of Conti Gatorskin 25s, which came off after about 100 miles, they were way too sluggish.

I'm thinking the Pro Race 25's will be my tire of choice. I'll need to see how they wear. I guess even if they do wnot wear well, I like the ride.

Thanks gang for the heads up.

OD

[palincss]

I needed a new set of tires and took the advice of many here to try out a pair of 25mm. Today I purchased a pair of Pro Race 25s, mounted them up and got back a bit ago from a 40ish miler. I like 'em. Ran them at about 90#s.
Smoothed out the ride without any feeling of loss of speed. Grippy. Feels round and cushy.

Was riding Conti 3000's in 23. I had tried a pair of Conti Gatorskin 25s, which came off after about 100 miles, they were way too sluggish.

I'm thinking the Pro Race 25's will be my tire of choice. I'll need to see how they wear. I guess even if they do wnot wear well, I like the ride.

Thanks gang for the heads up.

OD

VBQ's tire test issue arrived today. The Michelin Pro Race in 25mm is faster than the same tire in 23, and the 23 is faster than the 21. Another interesting finding: "...'feel' of a tire during a short test ride has no correlation with its performance. ... It appears that a tire's feel is related more to the sounds it makes and to the vibrations it transmits, than its speed. This also may explain why some slow tires... are quite popular."

[Sandy]

VBQ's tire test issue arrived today. The Michelin Pro Race in 25mm is faster than the same tire in 23, and the 23 is faster than the 21. Another interesting finding: "...'feel' of a tire during a short test ride has no correlation with its performance. ... It appears that a tire's feel is related more to the sounds it makes and to the vibrations it transmits, than its speed. This also may explain why some slow tires... are quite popular."

None of that surprises me. Higher psi and thinner tires yield more jumping around on the road surface and a false view that the tires are more lively and faster. Lower psi and wider tires yield more adhesion to the road surface, a smoother ride, less wear on your body, and less jumping around. Hence the false perception of slower.

I actually think that whatever a tire test shows relative to speed of a 700x23 versus a 700x25 tire would be biased towards the 23, based on the fact that I would think that the test would be on a more perfect surface than in the real world. In the real world of cycling, where road surfaces are most often far from ideal, I think the 25 would do even more favorably, due to its better ability to adhere to the road surface, sort of like the DKS rear. Of course, all of this is just my thinking with little empirical evidence.


Wide Tire Wide Body Serotta Sandy

[bironi]

I ride with about 80lb pressure. I'm about 160lb. Cushy, good on chipseal, with no pinch flats, very comfy. They wear pretty well too. :beer:

[OldDog]

Fast. Feely. Freewheeling. Fat And Funky.

Fantastic!

[Sandy]

Speedy. Supple. Solid. Stocky and Stable.


Superlative!

[rwsaunders]

Are they decent in wet conditions?

[PBWrench]

Happy humming humorous hopeful husband.

(Who got to ride on his Pro Race 23's today).

Sandy -- good to see you posting!

[sg8357]

Are they decent in wet conditions?

To my surprise, yes.

On short steep standing wet climbs, where tires will slip
they stick about as well as Ruffy Tuffys'
RTs are made from real rubber, the Michelins are some miracle material.

Now if Bib would make some ProRace 30s, I'd be delighted.


Scott G.

[palincss]

Now if Bib would make some ProRace 30s, I'd be delighted.

Scott G.

It'd be pretty funny, wouldn't it, if after all these years of ever narrower tires, we ultimately ended up where we began back 30+ years ago, with a tire roughly 1 1/4" in width? And I find it outright hilarious to discover that the 21s are slower than the 23s, and the 23s are slower than the 25s.

[Sandy]

It'd be pretty funny, wouldn't it, if after all these years of ever narrower tires, we ultimately ended up where we began back 30+ years ago, with a tire roughly 1 1/4" in width? And I find it outright hilarious to discover that the 21s are slower than the 23s, and the 23s are slower than the 25s.

Heck if that is the case, I am going out and find some 229s. Then I will be the fastest cyclist in the world. Well, maybe not the world. Maybe just my side of my block. :rolleyes:


Speedy Sandy

[Ray]

Are they decent in wet conditions?
I gotta disagree with the other poster on this one. I really really like Michelin Pro Race tires and ride both the 23s and the 25s for the vast majority of my riding. But I find them pretty slick in the wet. They'll stick well enough for climbing, but wet cornering can be a real adventure with them. I prefer Michelin's carbon or carbon krylon or whatever they're calling them these days in the wet. They use real rubber on those, they're not quite as light or quite as supple, but they're not bad, and the wet grip is a lot better. Or Roly Polys for fatter tires, which are great rain tires.

-Ray

[bironi]

Fast. Feely. Freewheeling. Fat And Funky.

Fantastic!

Much more succinct than my wordiness, and well drafted by Sandy sucking your wheel and keeping the grit from gathering, rubber to rubber, or synthetic to synthetic. :beer:

[BillyBear]

run 'em year round on both front and back....at 220 lbs (me) I inflate to 120 lbs...very comfy...only problem is unless I rotate only get about 2200 miles on back tire before tread is shot... :banana:

[Needs Help]

And I find it outright hilarious to discover that the 21s are slower than the 23s, and the 23s are slower than the 25s.

I'm not sure that rolling resistance tells the whole story. Which tire is faster in a sprint? How can you measure that? It seems intuitive that a cushy tire isn't going to spring forward as fast when jumping for a sprint.

[Ray]

It'd be pretty funny, wouldn't it, if after all these years of ever narrower tires, we ultimately ended up where we began back 30+ years ago, with a tire roughly 1 1/4" in width? And I find it outright hilarious to discover that the 21s are slower than the 23s, and the 23s are slower than the 25s.
I've seen the rolling resistance tests discussed and I'm sure its technically true, but I gotta wonder what else is at play. The pros tend to use 23s or narrower on good to medium good roads, and go up to maybe 25s for BRUTAL conditions like Paris-Roubaix. If a 32 or 35 mm tire was faster, they'd be riding them. I know what the pros ride should have bupkis to do with what we ride and I'm the first to verify that speed isn't everything, but the assertion here is about speed, and I'm not buying it. Aerodynamics and weight have gotta come into play at some point. At the speeds I ride, aero doesn't matter a lot, but given my lack of sustained power, I feel a lot more 'jump' with a lighter wheel/tire combination than a heavier one. Which means something even for a quality over quantity slow guy like me.

-Ray

[znfdl]

I switched to Vredenstein Fortezza 25s on my commuting bike and really like he ride. They seem to be a good ride for most weather conditions.

[mcteague]

Interesting timing of this thread. After years of using Michelin 23s I put on a pair of 25 Pro2Race tires. I love them. My average speed is no different but the comfort level is way up and they feel more secure in tight turns. One odd thing I noticed is that the tread on these is not completely smooth. If you look close, or just run your finger from side to side, you find it is made up of lots of thin little ridges. The very center band is smooth, but not the rest. I have not noticed this on the 23s I have seen nor on my previous ProRaces.

Tim McTeague

[OldDog]

One odd thing I noticed is that the tread on these is not completely smooth. If you look close, or just run your finger from side to side, you find it is made up of lots of thin little ridges. The very center band is smooth, but not the rest.
Tim McTeague


Huh. Mine look like they stuck in the mold, sandpaper like tread?

[Orin]

To my surprise, yes.

On short steep standing wet climbs, where tires will slip
they stick about as well as Ruffy Tuffys'
RTs are made from real rubber, the Michelins are some miracle material.

Scott G.

...as well as Ruffy Tuffys. That's damning. I found Ruffy Tuffys particularly bad in the wet. Where do you get that RTs are made from real rubber?

FWIW, on steep standing wet climbs, I don't think I've ridden any tire that doesn't slip.

Orin.

[11.4]

On steep standing wet climbs, your rear wheel is significantly unweighted so one should expect it to slip. And on wet roads with any grit in the turns, or with leaves, leaf mold, moss, cobbles, etc. on the roads, the rules about slick tires go out the window. The arguments for slicks assume flat roads ridden in a straight line. When adhesion is compromised by anything but water, sticky rubber helps but tread can as well -- the ultimate extrapolation of this point lies in trying to ride a slick on a cyclocross course.

Rolling resistance is only part of the game as well. Many people go to larger tires because they are frankly more forgiving of improper tire pressure. Most tires (and this is definitely true of Michelin's current offerings) are quite sensitive to a very few pounds' difference in tire pressure. Pressure depends not only on one's weight, but also on weight distribution on the bike, aggressiveness in turns, smoothness (whether you tend to try to unlock your front or rear tire from the road because you flick around, jerk your bike, or simply happen not to ride perfectly vertical -- and many riders have this latter behavior and never quite understand why they tend to slip a lot). I've gone up and down on tire sizes and frankly can tune a 23 mm tire so it rides really well for me, but I do have to use the pump I know. If I switch to someone else's pump, odds are that it won't inflate to the same pressure. Tire pump pressure gauges are uniformly awful -- expect two Silca Pista's to be 10-15 psi off from one another, or worse. You never give the tire a fair chance if you don't take out this variable from your comparisons. And one tire may need a different pressure from another. I ride a Veloflex Pave at 105 psi and a Michelin Service Course (23 mm) at 95 psi, for example.

Here's a plug for the Michelin Service Course's, by the way. If you like Michelins at all, and don't have a horrendous tire wear or puncturing problem, you'll like the Service Course's a lot more. They have a thinner tread that's pretty much like the ProGrip tread which sticks much better than a Pro Race under most wet conditions, and that's much more supple than the Pro Race. They preserve flat resistance pretty well, but if you inflict sidewall damage they may not be for you. It's the first tire I've found that I like as much as, or more than, a Veloflex Pave. They actually ride with the best attributes of a Conti Competition tubular -- very good sense of the road, not flabby at all or road-deadening, but very supple and very durable. And the triathlon types are burbling over how low their rolling resistance is. Outstanding race tires even if you decide you don't like them to train on. I hope Michelin keeps making them.

[coylifut]

Here's a plug for the Michelin Service Course's, by the way. If you like Michelins at all, and don't have a horrendous tire wear or puncturing problem, you'll like the Service Course's a lot more. They have a thinner tread that's pretty much like the ProGrip tread which sticks much better than a Pro Race under most wet conditions, and that's much more supple than the Pro Race.

Where do we find these tires? I've heard mention of them, but never seen em offered.

[dzen]

I am a big fan of wider tires. Here in New England it seems to help with pinch flat issues over uneven roads that are covered in acorns and twigs etc.

I ride 23(summer) or 25(spring/fall) depending on conditions. I normally inflate to near the tires max psi. I think the ride is more comfortable on wider tires at the same psi as the narrow.

Comfort is usually my highest priority.

[stevep]

i've been using the michelin grips this season. have liked them a lot.
worth the extra expence of more rapid wear imho.
not sure why but they seem more supple than pro race2 to me. i run michelin at 105 psi ft 110 rear.
havent tried yet the service course but i have a set waiting for next years new wheels.

[orbea65]

I had inquired about clinchers here about a week or two ago, and got recommendations for the michelins, conti 4000's, and vittoria's.
Probikekit has free shipping, and prices of about $30 per tire for all three of these, so I ordered a couple of each.
For fun I went on roadbikereview today and looked up the reviews of each (pro race 2, conti 4000 & vittoria Evo cx), and they all seem to get uniformly bad reviews, cuts, flats, sidewall blowouts. Kind of scary.

[Grant McLean]

For fun I went on roadbikereview today and looked up the reviews of each (pro race 2, conti 4000 & vittoria Evo cx), and they all seem to get uniformly bad reviews, cuts, flats, sidewall blowouts. Kind of scary.

Not really. Newbies post a lot at roadbikereview, and new roadies don't
know how to ride, and get all kinds of flats for various reasons. Most experienced
road rides get 10% the flats that the new guys do. Sounds bad, but it's true.

g

[dirtdigger88]

just wanted to add-

a pair of Pro Races pumped ALL the way up to 75 psi

well thats just dreamy-

almost as nice as my Paselas at 60 psi- (35c)

Really you guys should REALLY try lower pressure once in a while- and Im not talkin about going from 125 to 110- I mean go really low-

see how low you can go and not get a pinch flat- I bet you would be suprised-

Jason

[oldguy00]

just wanted to add-

a pair of Pro Races pumped ALL the way up to 75 psi

well thats just dreamy-

almost as nice as my Paselas at 60 psi- (35c)

Really you guys should REALLY try lower pressure once in a while- and Im not talkin about going from 125 to 110- I mean go really low-

see how low you can go and not get a pinch flat- I bet you would be suprised-

Jason

At 60 psi, doesn't the tire look, well, flat, while riding on it???! I'm one of those guys who still uses 120-130 in my tubies...:)

[dirtdigger88]

At 60 psi, doesn't the tire look, well, flat, while riding on it???! I'm one of those guys who still uses 120-130 in my tubies...:)

they dont look as FLAT as when Im running 40 psi :rolleyes:

no . . . really they dont look flat at all

the 35c tires are just about as big as MTB tires- you would never run more than 65 psi in one of those

Jason

[sc53]

Speaking of the ProRace's, does anyone else have a devil of a time changing these tires or is it only weakling sissy me? It took me 45 mins to wrestle the 25s on my Shimano DuraAce 7800 rims the other night and I was covered in black grease, grit and dirt by the time I finished. I put Ruffy Tuffy's on my CSI (with steel fork so they fit) with Open Pro's and had a very easy time of it. I love the Ruffy Tuffy's on the roads! Comfy and stable. The Michelin 25's are on my Ottrott now and are also quite comfy feeling, as others have reported.

[swoop]

he's totally right about tire pressure. michelin pro race 2's service corsa and the best tires i've ever used. ever.

i play with tire pressure every ride, depending on the ride i am doing and the weather and the roads. it's become intuitive and it makes a huge difference (even just a few pounds).
for serious training rides/crits i put 110 in back and 105 up front. ...things get less pressure depending on weather and intensity.

i find most folks over inflate and wonder why the tires feel bad and slip. michelin pro race 2 service corsa are the best atmo.

[manet]

no

[tomwd3]

Add me to the list of Michelin Pro2Race fans. I'm 175lbs and I run the front at 100psi and the rear at around 105psi. A-C Sprint 350 wheelset.
I think it's a nice balance of comfort and performance.
My only issue with them is that I'm always seeing the cords in the rear tire before I hit 2000 miles. C'est la vie.

[dzen]

Based on the feedback here I am going to try dropping pressure a little bit.

I will work down to 95/100 instead of the 115/120 I normally do over my next few rides.

[dirtdigger88]

come on kids-

I challenge everyone who has Pro Race 25's to ride one week with . . . lets say 80- 85 psi

just for sh*ts and grins-

then report back to the group -

whadda ya got to lose???

its the fall and most of us are slow anyway ;)

I DARE YA!!!

Jason

[swoop]

i go done in the 90's all the time. but i also wear womens undies on leap years.
hmmmmm.

[rpm]

A couple of years ago Uncle Al of RoadBikeRider.com wrote an article on why 95 psi was plenty of inflation for anybody. I tried it and found that my flats with Michelin ProRaces went down, and my comfort and handling have improved. At the beginning of this season I replaced my Michelins with Conti 4000's in the 25 size. These are the best tires I've ever used, light years better than Conti 3000's and surpassing the Michelins in puncture resistance and performance in the rain. Using vectran instead of kevlar and other materials as an anti-puncture belt makes a large difference. It's tough but it's very forgiving. I see Schwalbe is now using it too.

[Ray]

i go done in the 90's all the time. but i also wear womens undies on leap years.
hmmmmm.
OK, NOW I know why you don't want other riders using mirrors! Me, I'm gonna keep using one - I want to be damn sure I know when you're approaching from the rear.

-Ray