Need some help with Shimano 10speed stuff

[Dave B]

I have a full Dura Ace 7800 10speed group. It works perfectly, but I do not like the shifting cables of that style. I like the hidden ones like well anything newer.

So I know the dura ace 7900 shifters only works with 7900 stuff (from what I have searched for) but was curious if the ultegra 6700 shifters would work with the 7800 derailleurs?

I keep trying to find this specific answer, but am unable to...yet


thanks for the help or direction to find help

[Jaybee]

This answer will be of marginal utility since 7800 may be different than other 10 speed "exposed cable" groups, but I've successfully run both 6700 and 5700 shifters to a variety of shimano rear derailleurs: XT 9 speed, 6600, 7700, 5700 and 6700. I wasn't aware that the 7900 shifters pulled a different amount of cable than 6700 or 5700.

[GOTHBROOKS]

i used 6700 shifters with a 7800 rear no problem.
i read that the 7900 shifters wouldnt work with my cx70 front der. i never tried it out to see if that was the case.
im not using these 6700s anymore, so i could let them go for a fair price if you wanted.

[zennmotion]

Maybe not the answer you're looking for, but I ran campy 10sp shifters with a (9 speed) Shimano drivetrain/shimano derailleurs for several years with the appropriate J-tek adaptor and it all worked very well, best of both worlds in my opinion. I skipped 10 speed altogether when I later got a couple of new bikes and went to 11, but the decision was more or less based on super low prices for the new Shimano stuff, my old combo was still really great. I don't have direct experience of Campy 10-Shimano 10 mixing, but from what I've heard in here and across the hall is that the campy 10 shifters/ shimano 10 drivetrain also works well with the right J-tek. So if your issue is really with Shimano's exposed cables, then a pair of campagnolo 10 speed shifters paired with your Shimano drivetrain components is worth considering. And, since Campy people get all bent around ultra vs power shift-- shifting multiple cogs at a time-- the power shift levers that only shift one at a time (like what you're used to with Shimano now anyway) can be found pretty cheap since the hardcore Campyphiles think they're inferior. I never really cared about that feature, and didn't really use it even when I had ultrashift Centaurs.

[oldpotatoe]

I have a full Dura Ace 7800 10speed group. It works perfectly, but I do not like the shifting cables of that style. I like the hidden ones like well anything newer.

So I know the dura ace 7900 shifters only works with 7900 stuff (from what I have searched for) but was curious if the ultegra 6700 shifters would work with the 7800 derailleurs?

I keep trying to find this specific answer, but am unable to...yet


thanks for the help or direction to find help

7900 shifters work fine with 7800 rear der but need a 7900 front der. 6700 shifters would work fine with both 7800 ders.

[Dave B]

I am sorting out a new disc cross frameset and have a 7800 group I could use or a SRAM mixture of force/rivalI could use.

I don't want to use my campy for cross as replacing those parts gets a bit pricer and the wheels I have for cross are shimano/sram specific.

Now I got a great used 7800 full group, but for vanity sake like the hidden cables. I had planed on rebuilding that all blck Asylum gravel bike with either the current sram stuff or switching to the shimano group.

Then the brain started working and though maybe i could just get new 10 shimano shifters and saw the 7900 didn't have enough lever pull as mentioned, but was curious about the 6700.

Thought about doing an electric group, but this is for a cross bike and I am not going to even pretend I am worth an e-group on a cross bike when I ride at the back.

I might just sella bunch of stuff first and see what budget I can come up with for a partial build kit.

Cheers

Dave

[GOTHBROOKS]

the 5700 shifters have more of a silvery finish that matches the 7800 better than the dark grey carbon colors of the 6700 shifters. if youre into that sort of thing.

[mt2u77]

Why would you want to downgrade to inferior shifting?:) IMO, 7800 was the pinnacle of Shimano 10 spd. shifting. The hidden cable thing just adds a sharp bend and more friction. At least that was my experience going from 7800 to 7900.

[dave thompson]

I switched from 6700 shifters, which work perfectly with all Shimano 10-speed (except 7900 front) derailleurs back to 7800 shifters. To me, 7800 shifting represents the very best that Shimano offered in 10spd, personal esthetics aside.

[Dave B]

Why would you want to downgrade to inferior shifting?:) IMO, 7800 was the pinnacle of Shimano 10 spd. shifting. The hidden cable thing just adds a sharp bend and more friction. At least that was my experience going from 7800 to 7900.

The hoods on the 7800 really bug me, not so much the aesthetics, but the feel.

I have used the 7800 and ultegra version of that year on a cross bike and just got super uncomfortable. For example nothing is as wonderful as 10 speed campy shifters as far as feel for me.

So think about how they look and how narrow they are and then add girth to the width and well massive bull horn that shimano used.

Then Shimano went more campy and campy went more shimano. I still am debating taking my brand new chorus 11speed stuff off for 10speed version.

SRAM is better, but still very wide.

thanks for all of the help fellas.

[Kontact]

Given the apparent poor durability of 6700 shifters, I would seriously consider buying SRAM 10 shifters and a SRAM rear derailleur. Everything else would work fine with those two components in place.

[Dave B]

Given the apparent poor durability of 6700 shifters, I would seriously consider buying SRAM 10 shifters and a SRAM rear derailleur. Everything else would work fine with those two components in place.

Oh, I wasn't aware they weren't typical solid shimano. Is it just the 6700 that falls apart?

[AngryScientist]

it's really just the cable situation. shimano's first attempt at hidden cable shifters are pretty well known to eat cables in short order.

i've rented bikes with 6700 and think they are shimano's basically worst feeling shifters. i think it's a shared sentiment. i would skip that generation of 10-sp all together if i were you. i'm not a shimano hater either, just dont like that particular gen.

[Dave B]

it's really just the cable situation. shimano's first attempt at hidden cable shifters are pretty well known to eat cables in short order.

i've rented bikes with 6700 and think they are shimano's basically worst feeling shifters. i think it's a shared sentiment. i would skip that generation of 10-sp all together if i were you. i'm not a shimano hater either, just dont like that particular gen.

ok, makes sense.

I don't think I am worth an e-group, so sram mechanical it is.

So looks like a good old 7800 full group will be for sale soon in the classifieds. ughhh.

[Kontact]

Oh, I wasn't aware they weren't typical solid shimano. Is it just the 6700 that falls apart?

Not a "Shimano guy" and 6700 was still fairly new when I stopped wrenching, but have heard from several people in the know that their 6700 shifters became unserviceable after not so many miles - even with regular cable changes.

Perhaps drowning them in lube or something else would have kept them going longer.


I personally really like the SRAM shifters, so there's my bias.

[zzy]

Two things:
1. You can run 7900 shifters with any 10sp front mech, but it will rub in a crosschain. The 7900 stis don't have trim so the 7900 fd cage is slightly wider to compensate. The cable pull is the same and I have run a 7900 mech with 10sp stis successfully.
2. You will need new brakes. Second gen 10sp moved to the slr-ev brake standard with pulls more cable with a different ratio. Using old brakes will result is overly stiff feeling brakes. Worth noting that mech disc brakes work better with this system.

I agree that switching shifters for under tape shifter cable routing is a bad idea. 7800 is an excellent group and second generation 10sp was a mixed bag at best. However Shimano fixed most of the problems with 11sp stis which I really like. The shift cable feeds through the sti body and routes much smoother and won't constantly eat cables. Just be sure to used nosed ferrules.

[GregL]

it's really just the cable situation. shimano's first attempt at hidden cable shifters are pretty well known to eat cables in short order.

i've rented bikes with 6700 and think they are shimano's basically worst feeling shifters. i think it's a shared sentiment. i would skip that generation of 10-sp all together if i were you. i'm not a shimano hater either, just dont like that particular gen.
^^^This. 6800 is being closed out now for very low prices. 7900/6700/5700 took a step backwards just to hide the derailleur cables. 9000/6800/5800 brought the performance level back up.

Greg

[oldpotatoe]

Given the apparent poor durability of 6700 shifters, I would seriously consider buying SRAM 10 shifters and a SRAM rear derailleur. Everything else would work fine with those two components in place.

You forgot the ‘:)’...10s sram had very poor reliability(broken shifter blades, rear der cage emplosion)...6700 weren’t great but.....11s much better(there I said it)....

[macaroon]

Given the apparent poor durability of 6700 shifters, I would seriously consider buying SRAM 10 shifters and a SRAM rear derailleur. Everything else would work fine with those two components in place.

This.

The 5700/6700/7900 wasn't very good. Not as good as what you've currently got.

Front mech issues aside (use your Shimano one instead!), SRAM 10 speed was better.

[andeww]

kinda OT/ but the CX70 FD pretty much works with anything from what i have seen. I am using it with Campy 10 as i needed a top pull

[dddd]

In just the last few years, I've been having to re-lube a few 6700 STI levers here and there. Small sample size but nobody has brought me a busted one yet.

Broken cables, now that I see a lot of, and I am convinced that a failure to set the lo-limit screw for free enough full-range motion of the rear derailer is very largely to blame.
Shops tend to set the lo-limit to the tight side to prevent chain-in-spokes scenarios, and riders often make the problem worse when they swap wheels, then re-adjust the indexing slightly without backing out the lo-limit screw as needed.
Perhaps this is also shortening the life of some levers as the rider becomes less delicate in their use of the big lever because of the tightening cable going into low gear with the limit screw set on the tight side.

10s STI was never as robust as 9s was, but using genuine Shimano chain in particular usually allows me to easily achieve a high level of shifting performance.

[TheseGoTo11]

+1 on the sentiments other expressed on 7800--favorite of all time. FWIW though, I have bikes with DA7800, Ultegra 6800 and two with 6700 shifters. All have untold thousands of kms on them, all have been outstanding, but ironically only my 7800 and 6800 have eaten cables. Go figure. Probably dumb luck, but that's my experience.

[Dave B]

This all has been fascinating as I thought shimano could do no wrong. Will have to think about stuff and see what bikes should get what.

Thanks

D

[zambenini]

Ultegra 6600 SL Ice grey is the best looking Shimano group ever, but was the one that ate cables in my experience. 6700s have been really reliable for me with regular cable changes. That said, I've changed over all my other parts (hubs, cranks, etc.) gradually in prep for the day of 6800 11 speed.

I honestly may try Gevenelle shifters when the time comes. I like their versatility and simplicity.

[54ny77]

6700 shifters with 7800 drivetrain works perfectly. I have ran that exact setup on a few bikes for about a decade. I also have various brakes (6700, 7800, and Velo Orange Grand Cru) on those bikes. Flawless, plenty of leverage and stopping power. The lever/pull ratio claim of being insufficient is bunk. I'm a big kid who occasionally goes downhill very quickly and have never, ever felt that combo was bad. And the jibber jabber about 6700 levers being crap, I dunno what to say....other than maybe user error, perhaps.

Go for it and enjoy the best of both worlds.

Had to chuckle at the suggestion to ditch 7800 and buy SRAM mehanical. That's comedy. And I'm speaking as a SRAM owner!

I haven't tried newest latest & greatest Dura Ace but in all prior generations I personally felt 7800, properly set up, was the quietest, buttery smooth shifting ever. The hood shape was (and is) hit or miss. I have a couple bikes with the traditional 7800 levers and while out of fashion, they work oh so well. At least before it gets freezing cold! (They can get stuck, and need some lube in the clicker thingamajig).

[Kontact]

Had to chuckle at the suggestion to ditch 7800 and buy SRAM mehanical. That's comedy. And I'm speaking as a SRAM owner!

I haven't tried newest latest & greatest Dura Ace but in all prior generations I personally felt 7800, properly set up, was the quietest, buttery smooth shifting ever. The hood shape was (and is) hit or miss. I have a couple bikes with the traditional 7800 levers and while out of fashion, they work oh so well. At least before it gets freezing cold! (They can get stuck, and need some lube in the clicker thingamajig).

But the question was how to go to internal cables, not whether 7800 is good or bad.

SRAM works, holds up, doesn't eat cables and works with Shimano spacing and FDs. It answers the OP.

[Gummee]

kinda OT/ but the CX70 FD pretty much works with anything from what i have seen. I am using it with Campy 10 as i needed a top pull

I'm running a CX70 FD (top pull) with my D/A 9k shifters on one of my CX bikes.

Works fine.

Easier to set up than the long arm derailleurs by far

M

edited to add: the medium length arms on one of the versions of the 10sp front derailleur makes setting them up nigh on impossible with the wrong shifters. lIRC that's the last of the 10sp versions. 7900? Dunno.

[Gummee]

+1 on the sentiments other expressed on 7800--favorite of all time. FWIW though, I have bikes with DA7800, Ultegra 6800 and two with 6700 shifters. All have untold thousands of kms on them, all have been outstanding, but ironically only my 7800 and 6800 have eaten cables. Go figure. Probably dumb luck, but that's my experience.

6800 ate cables so they came out with the long nose ferrules. When they still ate cables, they came out with the 6801 stuff. The 6801 shifters don't seem to eat as many cables, but you do need to keep an eye on them. Use the long-nose ferrules for best results

HTH

M