Intermittent fasting as part of health & training regime?

[54ny77]

Anyone here integrate intermittent fasting into their diet and exercise regime for cycling, or in general?

I have a pal who's doing it and it's proven hugely beneficial, but he's not out there doing 50 mile rides on weekends. He is, however, in fantastic health and gym shape, including running 5-6 miles at a clip at a very respectable pace.

Personally, I can bang out 30 miles or so ride on a cup of coffee and just drinking water during ride. After that it gets iffy. No way I could do, say, 60+ miles without at least a little snack during ride, something of moderate substance, as well as something moderate for breakfast a good hour or so pre-ride (banana, yogurt, whatever).

[Mzilliox]

i don't get the concept. Why fuel your body with your body when you can fuel it with fuel?
Its like people who think they can perform sleep deprived because they are sleep deprived and don't realize how much better they'd perform if they slept well.

i would like to understand better the benefits one would assume. i could see some fat loss, but not overall performance gain.

but im no expert

[dogrange]

Anyone here integrate intermittent fasting into their diet and exercise regime for cycling, or in general?

I have a pal who's doing it and it's proven hugely beneficial, but he's not out there doing 50 mile rides on weekends. He is, however, in fantastic health and gym shape, including running 5-6 miles at a clip at a very respectable pace.

Personally, I can bang out 30 miles or so ride on a cup of coffee and just drinking water during ride. After that it gets iffy. No way I could do, say, 60+ miles without at least a little snack during ride, something of moderate substance, as well as something moderate for breakfast a good hour or so pre-ride (banana, yogurt, whatever).



I do it. Once you are fat adapted you can ride virtually any distance without eating. If you want to sprint or ride really hard, you will do so better if you fuel during th e ride for it. 60 miles at a medium tempo with hard periods is no problem fasted. 60 miles balls out would be pretty hard. It seems to help some people cut fat if that’s a desire.


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[54ny77]

How often do you do that, at least once a week?

What's your caloric intake like otherwise during rest of week, and are you in decent shape or a lard butt (relatively speaking)?

I'm trying VERY hard to drop a good bit of weight this year (20+) and get back into respectable riding shape, and I'd never heard of IF before.

In my decidedly low tech tech approach to weight loss, I'm just eating less calories than I burn (moderate calorie deficit), but what I do eat is healthy and balanced. The hardest give up is good bread. Everything else I can deal with. But man it pains me to give up the empty carbs....

I do it. Once you are fat adapted you can ride virtually any distance without eating. If you want to sprint or ride really hard, you will do so better if you fuel during th e ride for it. 60 miles at a medium tempo with hard periods is no problem fasted. 60 miles balls out would be pretty hard. It seems to help some people cut fat if that’s a desire.


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[joosttx]

My experience is that I can maintain an endurance pace without food for a long time. Typically, I eat dinner between 5 and 6p. And will begin riding around 8a. My plan is not to eat until 10am but typically I will not eat until 10:30 or 11:00am. What I "eat" is I drink some BCAA's. I typically dont eat a carbs or solid food til after 12p. I feel I can ride at an endurance pace no problem but trying to sprint and get near threshold for a while is really tough.

[ceolwulf]

I do it. Once you are fat adapted you can ride virtually any distance without eating. If you want to sprint or ride really hard, you will do so better if you fuel during th e ride for it. 60 miles at a medium tempo with hard periods is no problem fasted. 60 miles balls out would be pretty hard. It seems to help some people cut fat if that’s a desire.


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Pretty much this yes. Helps adapt the body to burning fat which is basically an unlimited energy supply even for a lean athlete. I think it's supposed to help with insulin sensitivity as well. I just do the daily version which is to get all your eating done in an eight-hour window. So no breakfast and no eating after supper is usually what it amounts to. Not hard at all after a few days.

[seric]

Somewhat related due to the crossover between IF and ketosis:

https://www.channel4.com/news/british-rowers-break-atlantic-crossing-record

They followed a high fat, low carb diet supplemented with MCT's.

[Ralph]

It's a good way to lose weight. Researchers claim MOST folks have better luck with weight reduction by intermittent fasting VS just trying to cut back on eating at meals. I know that's true for me.

[dogrange]

How often do you do that, at least once a week?

What's your caloric intake like otherwise during rest of week, and are you in decent shape or a lard butt (relatively speaking)?

I'm trying VERY hard to drop a good bit of weight this year (20+) and get back into respectable riding shape, and I'd never heard of IF before.

In my decidedly low tech tech approach to weight loss, I'm just eating less calories than I burn (moderate calorie deficit), but what I do eat is healthy and balanced. The hardest give up is good bread. Everything else I can deal with. But man it pains me to give up the empty carbs....



I typically eat only lunch and dinner. This amounts to typically limiting eating to about an 8 hour window each day. I’m not religious about it, but this is typical. Quite a few days I’ll also skip lunch and just eat dinner. I actually feel great if I truly fast for 2-3 days, but that is hard to do, not because of hunger, but socially and because I look forward to eating lunch to break up the work day. I am in very good shape, generally speaking for a 47 year old desk jockey, although just a “for fun” rider (5000-6000 miles per year) by the standards of his board. I do a lot of body weight and kettlebell stuff too, which I find to be much better for overall health and vitality than bike riding. I just ride the bike because it is fun, sort of addictive it is . . .


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[NickR]

Anyone here integrate intermittent fasting into their diet and exercise regime for cycling, or in general?).

I do, I don’t plan it but it just happens. I’ve been on the high fat low carb “diet” for 15 months. My last meal for the day is around 4ish pm and don’t eat something till the next day around 9ish am. So technically I’m on a 18 hour fast. As dogrange said you need to be fat adapted in order to be able to do this. If not like Mzilliox said you won’t perform at full capacity because your body does not know how to use your stored fat as fuel. The key for me is staying in zone 2 during the ride. Recently did a 50 mile ride with 4K of climbing, no breakfast with some boiled eggs and some bacon strips for on the ride snacks.

[Peter P.]

This concept of "adapting the body to burn fat" is a fallacy.
The implication is the body is using fat as its primary, or sole source of energy. Doesn't happen. I think those that say they can do this stuff are running at very reduced effort levels. Sure; I worked 8 hours yesterday and skipped lunch with little ill effects, but my effort level was nowhere near riding a bicycle.

The body can only burn fat in the presence of carbohydrates. You NEED a source of carbs as a catalyst to assist in the fat burning process otherwise the body starts cannibalizing its own muscles for energy. And those stores of carbs are limited to supplying energy for 2hrs. worth of work, +/-.

To 54ny77: Your friend's fantastic health and gym shape is likely due to genetics, then training, then diet.

Your last paragraph, "Personally..." says you're normal as to what the body needs, particularly for those 60 mile rides. And if you're looking to lose weight there's no need to deny yourself the foods you love; just eat them in moderation. Allow yourself that piece of bread one day on the weekend and you'll be much happier AND achieve your goals.

[dogrange]

Your internet expertise does not line up with the experience of many other internet experts.


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[mt2u77]

I think IF works for weight loss in that it limits the frequency of insulin spikes, which helps people consume fewer overall calories without hunger pangs all the time. It’s a strategy for normal sedentary people— if you are doing heavy volume you should modify it to fuel your workouts for performance and recovery.


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[Tickdoc]

I get ketonic post ride when I do it. No thanks. I like a small snack every hour or so and a little sugar if riding over 30.

[Ralph]

Dr Mirkin on subject. Sports Doc and nutritionist.

http://www.drmirkin.com/fitness/lowcarbohydrate-diets-harm-athletic-performance.html

[Mikej]

Dr Mirkin on subject. Sports Doc and nutritionist.

http://www.drmirkin.com/fitness/lowcarbohydrate-diets-harm-athletic-performance.html

Elite race walkers....
I would vote yes to IF when not in competition or riding season. I do find that I can convince my body to not be hungry after practice- genetics aside, whatever floats your bike.

[Ralph]

Dr Mirkin on "Eat to Compete".

http://www.drmirkin.com/fitness/eat-to-compete.html

[Ralph]

BTW.....IMHO if all we're doing is riding 125-150 miles per week, lots of diets can work for us. I personally like the IF idea to help with weight control, and avoid some of the risks, at my age, of strokes, cardiac events, diabetes, etc. The original post was about training to compete I believe.

[weisan]

Just commenting in general...

I think we have a tendency to look for quick fixes, instant results, magic solutions, drastic measures....

What I have learned is, what really works in a sustainable and healthy fashion requires first off a mindset change, followed by implementing incremental changes, observing self discipline and a follow through with daily consistency.

Take my recent weight loss for instance. It wasn't a drastic change. I didn't jump out of bed one day, look at myself in the mirror and declare that I was too fat. It was something I thought about on and off for some time and ponder over. Looking at my previous lifestyle, I determined that it was possible to reduce the amount of daily intake and still maintain and keep up with my level of activity. So, the level of activity remained the same while the intake amount was reduced incrementally. Over three months, I have lost 20 pounds and it's still going. The most important part of what I learned in this process is the mindset change. Because mentally inside, the light came on and I have flipped the "switch", this whole exercise is not a one-off thing or a flash in the pan, I am confident I will be able to keep this up for the long term. I have seen far too many pals who have lost weight and then gained them back and put on even more. I think perhaps they have not completely made up in their mind why they embark on this journey of weight loss in the first place. Usually when that happens, it's easy to get thrown off course by external factors.

At the risk of over-simplification, almost every permanent change follows this pattern:

Old self --> Motivations --> Mindset change --> Physical change --> New self
And the cycle repeats itself when the New becomes the Old again.

[glepore]

I practice intermittent fasting but not fasted training. If I'm doing a big ride I will eat 300-500 cal of carbs an hour or so before and try to consume 200cal of carbs an hour during the ride. If just doing a workout, then just carbs before. I try to train later in the day if "just training" and on those days not eat before noon. Works for me. My weight has been steady throughout my 50's practicing this.

Fasted training might well be unhealthy, as its catabolic. I hear people talk about being "fat adapted" and I think this is bunk-your body burns what it burns. What you can do is moderate insulin response by not bombing yourself with simple sugars - this works.

[54ny77]

Thanks for all the replies.

My head explodes trying to figure the IF thing out, timing things (16/8, and so on), yadda yadda.

The IF thing was just interesting concept, wasn't really aware of it. The initial goal here is weight loss, yes, and then once a comfortable weight is realized, some sort of moderately structured training to get faster. I know what I have to do to get to both ends, it's just a matter of commitment.

And that all assumes, of course, life doesn't get in the way of one process or the other....

Cycling is a cruel mistress!

[General69]

I have been doing IF for that last 2 months with a 10 lb weight reduction so far. I'm a 6 ft tall male and went from 200 lb to 190 lb. I have a normal dinner at 5 pm and don't eat till noon the next day. I also work out before my noon meal. You are essentially cutting your calories by 1/3 but just cutting out breakfast.

[chiasticon]

I think we have a tendency to look for quick fixes, instant results, magic solutions, drastic measures....my understand of IF is that the reason it works is because it's very straightforward and totally doable in the long term. the main idea is that you're cutting your calorie intake in a much easier way than counting calories for everything, always. and that you don't have to have "cheat days" or anything like that to reward yourself and stay sane. why it works - whether because your stomach shrinks, hunger chemical balance changes or whatever - is apparently still debated among experts. but from what I've read, most people have success with it.

there's many forms of it though. some you eat 1/4 of your recommended caloric intake every other day, and whatever you want the next. others you have a full 36 hours of fasting. and still others your really only eat one meal a day. each apparently works better for certain lifestyles and people. the one most people here seem to be referring to is 16 hours of fasting and 8 hours of feeding, which is most conducive to people who wish to exercise during/near the feeding portion. but I believe you tailor your caloric intake during that period to what your activity level is for the day.

personally, I think this would be most conducive during the winter months, when you mainly are looking for zone two base miles and trying to keep the weight off while your activity level is lower. I can't see doing it during the summer, if you do a lot of big miles, long days, and difficult rides/racing.

[stev0]

Seems like a lot of folks chiming in about Intermittent Fasting (IF)/Time Restricted Feeding (TRF) in combination with caloric restriction.

Over the years, I've practiced a form of TRF (on and off) where I consume 100% of my usual calories from 12-8PM (16 hours fasting, 8 hours feeding "16/8"). Ideally, I have a short workout right before my meal period starts. Doing it M-F only makes it more manageable, and when I go on challenging rides I don't stick to a strict schedule, but usually those fall on the weekends anyway.

It can be a very straightforward way of restricting calories (i.e. one less meal), but I think it has its own merits. I generally feel better (mood) and feel physically healthier when I do so.

Adding a link to a study (https://translational-medicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12967-016-1044-0) on the effects of 16/8 on "resistance-trained males", published in a peer reviewed journal. It has useful citations (with links) to studies on effects of IF and TRF on athletic performance (e.g. how Ramadan affects athlete performance).

[GonaSovereign]

Old self --> Motivations --> Mindset change --> Physical change --> New self
And the cycle repeats itself when the New becomes the Old again.

This is on the money.

[11.4]

There's some interesting research recently published that investigates how mitochondria react to intermittent fasting. The results were quite striking and have been affirmed by other researchers: Intermittent fasting does provoke significantly higher metabolic efficiency of mitochondria, reduces deterioration in mitochondria with age, and modifies the regulation of metabolic pathways through the mitochondria which use lipids. The studies were on elite athletes in aerobic sports, and were ultimately assessing measured biochemical changes relative to actual sports performance improvement. None of the athletes were on ketogenic diets per se.

Since mitochondria are the drivers of aerobic metabolism in the cell and their number and efficiency are key drivers of cellular aging and damage repair, these studies are quite interesting. Now they don't actually translate, at least not in the research described here, from biochemical changes in the mitochondria to actual sports performance or longevity. But the results were quite telling. The experiments have been duplicated with different patterns of fasting, but the evidence seems to suggest that 12-hour fasts twice a week prior to 2 hours of exercising are enough to bring about the results described. That's not serious fasting and doesn't impair the quality of a 2-hour workout. There was no indication that the fasting impaired training or sports improvement for any of the subjects.

So it's probably worth trying this out and seeing what your personal experiences are. It's not so extreme a regimen as to impair training or create metabolic problems for you in other ways, and it doesn't require ketogenic diets or anything more extreme than basic healthy nutrition and exercise.

[Louis]

Anyone have a link to a decent, non-hardcore, basic approach to IF, with a good description of how to implement in your current life as a regular exerciser?

I'm willing to try if it isn't too complicated.

[Louis]

So, some Googling tells me that there are at least two ways to do this:

1) One 24 hr fast per week, and

2) Daily 16 / 8 fasting, where you only eat in the 8 hr window and fast during the 16 other hours.

Anyone out there care to comment further on how these two compare?

TIA

[chiasticon]

So, some Googling tells me that there are at least two ways to do thishere's a basic overview of five different ones, including the two you mentioned, along with what type of people/lifestyles they might work well for: http://dailyburn.com/life/health/intermittent-fasting-methods/

[velofinds]

My head explodes trying to figure the IF thing out, timing things (16/8, and so on), yadda yadda.

It's not that complicated. In brief, do all your eating during a narrow window (e.g., 8 hours) and abstain during the rest. Timing is less important, though it's preferable if you can build in a buffer of, say, 2-3 hours between your last food intake and when you go to sleep.

If you can fast for 16 hours, great; if not, that's okay, too -- you'll still see benefits. Personally, I intermittent fast for about 14 hours, which in practical terms amounts to wrapping up dinner by 7 and not having anything to eat until 9am the next day (though unsweetened black coffee or tea in the morning is perfectly fine). Do that (or similar) as many times during the week as you can.

Edit: IF and fasted riding shouldn't be conflated -- though related, these are two separate things. For starters, IF can be incorporated by athletes and non-athletes alike.

[wooly]

It's not that complicated. In brief, do all your eating during a narrow window (e.g., 8 hours) and abstain during the rest. Timing is less important, though it's preferable if you can build in a buffer of, say, 2-3 hours between your last food intake and when you go to sleep.

If you can fast for 16 hours, great; if not, that's okay, too -- you'll still see benefits. Personally, I intermittent fast for about 14 hours, which in practical terms amounts to wrapping up dinner by 7 and not having anything to eat until 9am the next day (though unsweetened black coffee or tea in the morning is perfectly fine). Do that (or similar) as many times during the week as you can.

Edit: IF and fasted riding shouldn't be conflated -- though similar, these are two separate things. For starters, IF can be incorporated by athletes and non-athletes alike.



Good to hear black coffee is fine. Otherwise, without even knowing it, I’ve been doing this fast fairly consistently for the last year (albeit with a slight tweak). I was diagnosed with kidney disease about two years ago and last year my doc advised me to go on a low carb diet because excess carbs were causing inflammation which was impacted my kidneys. Limiting my carbs to 30 per meal and no more than 100 per day was tough but once I found my groove I lost 10 pounds pretty easily.

Great info on this thread.

[Wayne77]

Some random / very loosely correlated thoughts.

There's a great documentary "The Science of Fasting". Might still be on Netflix. It doesn't directly relate to IF or how fasting works with exercise. But there were some fascinating points. Its been awhile since I watched it, but key things I recall

- while you can only go several days without water before you die the body can typically go 40 days without food.

- For the religious minded, the Bible documents that Christ fasted for 40 days

- Fast hunger pains last for a few days then go away. When you see those starving children & adults in poverty/famine stricken areas, they are likely not feeling very hungry any more (but undoubtedly still suffering immensely in many other ways!)

- Fasting eventually causes the cells to go into a sort of "batten-the-hatches" self preservation mode. Can't remember if that involves cell linings getting thicker or what but the interesting thing is that several studies have shown that cells in this state are more resistant to external factors (like Chemo) that would normally damage cells.

- Based on the above, there are some fasting-treatment centers around the world where people are fasting for 2-3 weeks to help with various maladies. Lots of evidence it works in many cases. I'd love to know if this translates over to mental disorders like chemical depression or neurological disorders like Autism (my little boy has autism). Probably not, but it would be cool if it did!

- Also based on the above, there are studies and examples where Cancer patients have done chemo treatments in this fasted state (a few weeks in to the fast?). Normal cells go into that preservation mode and are less impacted by the damage that chemo does. Cancer cells are not normal, do not behave normally and do not go into this protective state. So they apparently freak out. and are still killed off

- This approach is not widely accepted in the traditional medical community. Journals documenting these studies and results have largely been ignored

One other interesting anecdote. I race with a guy who is 65 years old, crazy fast Cat 4 who still gets on the podium. Maybe he's doping but when I asked him what his secret is he says that he doesn't eat before long rides...he only has his breakfast an hour or two into his long training rides. He's notorious for popping out a zip lock with a breakfast burrito, or just eggs and some sausage and inhaling this breakfast feast mid-ride. I even saw him do that an hour into a race I did with him. People think its hilarious. He's got enough presence in the peloton that he'll dow whatever he can to slow the pace a bit so he can have breakfast ;-) Again, maybe he's actually doping but maybe there's something to his fasting approach. I typically take 300-400 calories an hour or two before my big rides and races.

[macaroon]

If it's weight loss you want then no, I don't think fasted riding is a good place to start.

We all know that High Intensity exercise is best for weight loss/fat loss; the problem with fasted riding is these intense efforts are much harder to do. Infact you won't be able to ride as hard fasted.

Better to fuel properly and ride harder for fat loss. Or do some weight lifting.

Alot of people probably over estimate how much food they need for a hard two hour effort on the bike.

Also, clean up your diet (that's the key to weight loss!)

[Louis]

here's a basic overview of five different ones, including the two you mentioned, along with what type of people/lifestyles they might work well for: http://dailyburn.com/life/health/intermittent-fasting-methods/

Thanks - that's helpful.

[ikecycke]

https://www.precisionnutrition.com/intermittent-fasting

Here's another good resource, with many different breakdowns on the science, how it works, how to do it, etc.

They tend to look at exercise more from a resistance training angle, so you'd likely want to adjust some things for endurance-focused exercise.

[54ny77]

Update: IF as part of overall diet & exercise program has me down just about 25 lbs since I first inquired about this back in Jan. I haven't been this light in almost 10 years, and it feels really good. Trying to drop another 10 or so and then I'll be very happy--as will my doc. In another month or two I'll re-test blood for the usual values and see what kind of improvements are there.

Program in a nutshell: less calories in than calories out. However ya get there, that's what needs to happen. I happened to choose one path. I'll do an IF routine typically 1-2x/week, and I must say I feel very good afterwards. Alert, not particularly hungry, etc. I drink lots of fluids though during an IF, mostly water with lemon or some other slice of citrus (lime, orange). And I do my best to balance caloric intake with whatever my exercise plan is for that day (or over a series of days) and how I'm generally feeling. But, I don't overthink it. For example, I had a long ride day on Saturday (about 4 hours) and I ate a small meal beforehand an snacked on the ride itself, even though I was "scheduled" to be on an IF clock into the late afternoon that day. No way I could have ridden without fuel before and during.

[crankles]

This concept of "adapting the body to burn fat" is a fallacy.
And those stores of carbs are limited to supplying energy for 2hrs. worth of work, +/-.



It's not a fallacy as the body is burning carbs, muscle, and fat simultaneously just in different ratios. While I agree you never completely convert, it's not hard to put oneself into ketosis, easily measured by a drop of blood (or a pee stick, but that's less accurate).

Now, training your body to be more efficient in ketosis takes time. You have all the necessary enzymes present all the time, just not at very high levels. Over time, your body will raise the production of those required to better convert the fatty acids and use ketones as the primary fuel source.

In addition, your body is capable of making glucose from amino and fatty acids to keep blood sugar levels from dropping.

so in short, you can adapt your body to use fat as the primary but not exclusive fuel source.

[cal_len1]

The main thing is that you don't put yourself in a huge hole, which it sounds like is not happening.
https://cyclingtips.com/2018/03/food-thought-eating-putting-risk/

[54ny77]

You're correct, am def. not in that realm. Far, far from it. I know what I need to sustain certain efforts on bike and gym. Plus, I don't "train" for cycling with any semblance of structured training. I just ride. Most rides are mellow 1 to 1.5 hour spins a couple times a week on a trainer, or occasionally on road. Plus the gym a couple times a week with weights. If I am in a position to be able to get out for a long ride once every few weeks or so, I eat enough before and during to fill the fuel tank. ;)


The main thing is that you don't put yourself in a huge hole, which it sounds like is not happening.
https://cyclingtips.com/2018/03/food-thought-eating-putting-risk/

[benb]

A lot of this talk about "I can ride for a long time without eating/can fast and still ride well", etc.. is all meaningless without everyone sharing power files or something.

No two rides are the same and no two riders are the same. "I can ride OK" might translate to junk Z1/Z2 miles for someone else.

Frankly the idea that anyone on a cycling website even needs to think about this stuff is mind boggling. Pretty much any steady riding & avoiding junk food and I have total control of my weight. Seems like almost everyone I know who is a rider IRL is in the same boat, but on the Internet everyone has to try crazy diets or they put on 10s of lbs of fat even while riding a lot? Not to mention pretty much any pro rider who starts talking about this stuff says it's all terrible and we should all be eating loads of quality carbs to stay fueled so we can ride hard. When I see people talking about weight problems despite lots of cycling I wonder if there are other sources of junk calories coming into play that don't get discussed. Like dieting but then having a couple glasses of wine or beer every night or something. (Which could be close to 1500-2000 empty calories per week, etc..)

I have a co-worker who doesn't ride and swears by intermittent fasting. But he's also given himself gout by doing so. (According to his doctors) Amazingly even though he's got excruciating pain from it some days he still thinks the fasting is great.

[jimcav]

Frankly the idea that anyone on a cycling website even needs to think about this stuff is mind boggling. Pretty much any steady riding & avoiding junk food and I have total control of my weight.
I was that way--with running and cycling I often struggled to keep up a good weight. After injuries my eating habits turned out to be that--habits and I had to obviously drop intake. Next there was some serious pain issues and depression and that was why I asked questions on the gut/brain axis. It was never hard for me to "not" eat something, now it is. And I crave things in a way that I didn't. I remember reading about how toxoplasma changes the brain of rats to NOT be afraid of cats, because it needs the rat to be eaten by the cat for its life cycle. I wonder if there is something like that at work with whatever gut microbes I now have--anyway working on that, but I only mean to say that depending on the goals, and in this case I would guess it is weigth loss, a person's ability to ride, and whatever issues they have with self control, or mind altering meds or gut bacteria; it isn't as easy for some as for others. I can't do the drop on a road bike, I only have so much time to MTB, and i'm trying to run but the extra 25 pounds (was 30) is hard on the bad hip etc--slow going to lose weight, but that would make the running easier, so I may try the intermittent fasting

[54ny77]

I've only used IF as part of a months-long weight loss strategy, that's it.

The side benefit is I actually feel great after completing one cycle. Takes some getting used to, esp. when I'm used to eating pretty much anything I'd otherwise crave.

And most certainly if I was doing any sort of structured riding and serious training, my head would explode trying to figure that all out.

As far as power files, the only power meter I have is attached to my house, and I burn a lot of watts on that. On my bike, however, based on what people tell me who have a measure of that sort of thing, I rarely exceed 200 watts. ;)

[tlittlefield]

I have not eaten a lunch in over 25 years, weekdays and weekend.

For breakfast I go high protein usually 80 plus grams and then a lot of water through out the day. My typical rides are around 45 miles, (maybe a 60 mile or so on the weekend) 4/5 days a week depending on the weather. During the ride my water bottle has a scoop of Creatine in it.

Then I have a regular dinner meal.

I am 66 years old, 5'9", 140 lbs.

[John H.]

Interesting that you mention cravings.
When I had gut, health, nutrition issues I also craved junk.
I think it was because my body was crying out for nutrition that it could use.
When my health improved, I no longer had cravings for sugar or fatty foods.



I was that way--with running and cycling I often struggled to keep up a good weight. After injuries my eating habits turned out to be that--habits and I had to obviously drop intake. Next there was some serious pain issues and depression and that was why I asked questions on the gut/brain axis. It was never hard for me to "not" eat something, now it is. And I crave things in a way that I didn't. I remember reading about how toxoplasma changes the brain of rats to NOT be afraid of cats, because it needs the rat to be eaten by the cat for its life cycle. I wonder if there is something like that at work with whatever gut microbes I now have--anyway working on that, but I only mean to say that depending on the goals, and in this case I would guess it is weigth loss, a person's ability to ride, and whatever issues they have with self control, or mind altering meds or gut bacteria; it isn't as easy for some as for others. I can't do the drop on a road bike, I only have so much time to MTB, and i'm trying to run but the extra 25 pounds (was 30) is hard on the bad hip etc--slow going to lose weight, but that would make the running easier, so I may try the intermittent fasting

[54ny77]

Totally agree with this.

This process has been pretty eye opening for me, learned alot more about nutrition.

An added side benefit is reflux issues have largely gone away. That's a big deal for me given past issues.

Interesting that you mention cravings.
When I had gut, health, nutrition issues I also craved junk.
I think it was because my body was crying out for nutrition that it could use.
When my health improved, I no longer had cravings for sugar or fatty foods.

[rbtmcardle]

Critical reading. Atmo.

Dr Jason Fung - the complete guide to fasting

Dr Robert Lustig - books - Fat Chance a nd The Hacking of the American Mind

Www.dietdoctor.com

I generally eat a low carb high fat diet. I can go for days without eating and have ridden 40 miles on the 10th day of an 11 day water only fast.

A calorie is not a calorie.

Dr. Peter Attia - podcast peterattiamd.com

Dr Ted Naiman - Twitter @tednaiman - http://www.BurnFatNotSugar.com


Dr Jeff Volek and Dr Stephen Phinney - The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance



Anyone have a link to a decent, non-hardcore, basic approach to IF, with a good description of how to implement in your current life as a regular exerciser?



I'm willing to try if it isn't too complicated.






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[velofinds]

Re: Peter Attia, this is a good page with real-life meal/snack examples.

https://peterattiamd.com/what-i-actually-eat/

[Louis]

Re: Peter Attia, this is a good page with real-life meal/snack examples.

https://peterattiamd.com/what-i-actually-eat/

"Wow" is about all I can say. I don't think I'll be following his example, regardless of how well this happens to work for him:

I go to great lengths to avoid sugar which, unfortunately, shows up in virtually every highly processed food.

I eat zero starch (e.g., bread, cereal, rice, crackers, pasta).

I consume only modest amounts of fruit (one serving per day, at most, and only in the form of berries, which contain the least amount of fructose).

I eat vegetables, but primarily because they are a great way to get more fat (e.g., high-fat salad dressings, butter), not because I “need” them.

I go out of my way to eat as much fat as possible, especially monounsaturated and saturated fat (the only fat I avoid is omega-6 polyunsaturated fat).

[fourspin]

Just stumbled across this thread. It looks like many of the IF diets mentioned here were also ketogenic/low carb type of diets.

Has anyone explored Max Lowery's Two Meal Day plan? I follow him on Instagram, he seems to be a pretty seasoned athlete, and from what I can tell, his meals are fairly balanced (I think you have to pay to see details of his menus).

I tried the 16:8 concept earlier this year and for the first few weeks, I felt like it really curbed my bad food cravings (i..e, sugar). Then Spring arrived and I was able to ride more and I tossed any notion of reasonable eating out the window. Now colder weather has arrived, my riding is tapering, and I need to reign in the diet before things get out of control. Considering trying 16:8 again, but would like to stick with sensible meals rather than low carb.

[Spaghetti Legs]

I fast for about 8 hours every day.

[Louis]

I fast for about 8 hours every day.

I suppose that's better than slowing for 8 hours a day.

[fourspin]

ugh

I suppose that's better than slowing for 8 hours a day.

[Mattre]

Intermittent fasting isn't synonymous with fasted training or ketosis. But it is an easy way to cut some calories if you’re trying to lose weight.

[Spaghetti Legs]

I suppose that's better than slowing for 8 hours a day.

Yes, so fast I even get caught up on my sleep when I do it.

[onekgguy]

I'm curious as to what the ketogenic/low carb diet does for your cholesterol values? Does anyone have any before and after results you'd care to share? Thanks!

Kevin g

[rbtmcardle]

I'm curious as to what the ketogenic/low carb diet does for your cholesterol values? Does anyone have any before and after results you'd care to share? Thanks!



Kevin g



I have a few years worth of data of my own blood work. I can tell what my diet had been based on my A1c, Cholesterol and other markers.

I’d be willing to share privately.

If you read the books written by MD’s you will be amazed. It’s not just smoke and mirrors. If you are able to get past the decades of a calorie is a calorie and saturated fat is bad..you will change your life.

Dr Robert Lustig
Dr Peter Attia
Dr Jason Fung
Dominic D’Agostino
Dr Ted Naiman
Mike Mutzel

I could go on and on. I’ve been reading and self experimenting for years on this.

Ketones are a more efficient fuel. My understanding is Team Skye..and others are fueling on them..more efficient fuel source..lower pulmonary load..etc. that info is found in Phinney and Volek and further examined by D’Agostino.


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[saab2000]

I have a few years worth of data of my own blood work. I can tell what my diet had been based on my A1c, Cholesterol and other markers.

I’d be willing to share privately.

If you read the books written by MD’s you will be amazed. It’s not just smoke and mirrors. If you are able to get past the decades of a calorie is a calorie and saturated fat is bad..you will change your life.

Dr Robert Lustig
Dr Peter Attia
Dr Jason Fung
Dominic D’Agostino
Dr Ted Naiman
Mike Mutzel

I could go on and on. I’ve been reading and self experimenting for years on this.

Ketones are a more efficient fuel. My understanding is Team Skye..and others are fueling on them..more efficient fuel source..lower pulmonary load..etc. that info is found in Phinney and Volek and further examined by D’Agostino.


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Without giving specifics on your personal data, are your findings positive? Or negative WRT blood values?

[rbtmcardle]

Without giving specifics on your personal data, are your findings positive? Or negative WRT blood values?

I get my bloodwork done every six months and have found my cholesterol numbers fluctuating based on diet. In a nutshell - Nov 2014 thru June 2018

For that period
Total Chlor down 22%
HDL Up 13%
LDL Down 46%
Tri Down 45%

My starting total cholestorol was just below 200. I just turned 50 this year.

There was a period in mid 2015 where I was eating very poorly - carbs carbs carbs. Pasta, pizza, etc.. since mid 2016 I have been fairly consistent and certainly have the occasional pizza, cake at an event etc but then go back to eating healthy fats, protein etc..

In the last year I have also started intermittent fasting with an eating window of 8 hours or so.

A recent blog post from Dr Robert Lustig speaks about the recent Guardian article on butter and cholesterol - http://www.robertlustig.com/blog/

He notes this article as well - https://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/opinion/insight/the-cholesterol-and-calorie-hypotheses-are-both-dead-it-is-time-to-focus-on-the-real-culprit-insulin-resistance/20203046.article?firstPass=false

[onekgguy]

I get my bloodwork done every six months and have found my cholesterol numbers fluctuating based on diet. In a nutshell - Nov 2014 thru June 2018

For that period
Total Chlor down 22%
HDL Up 13%
LDL Down 46%
Tri Down 45%

My starting total cholestorol was just below 200. I just turned 50 this year.

There was a period in mid 2015 where I was eating very poorly - carbs carbs carbs. Pasta, pizza, etc.. since mid 2016 I have been fairly consistent and certainly have the occasional pizza, cake at an event etc but then go back to eating healthy fats, protein etc..

In the last year I have also started intermittent fasting with an eating window of 8 hours or so.

A recent blog post from Dr Robert Lustig speaks about the recent Guardian article on butter and cholesterol - http://www.robertlustig.com/blog/

He notes this article as well - https://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/opinion/insight/the-cholesterol-and-calorie-hypotheses-are-both-dead-it-is-time-to-focus-on-the-real-culprit-insulin-resistance/20203046.article?firstPass=false

rbtmcardle

Thanks for this.

Kevin g