First Ride: Titan Cycles Titanium Belt Drive Fixed Gear

[MaraudingWalrus]

Greetings people of thepaceline!

I've just put down a deposit on another frame. And another china-sourced custom titanium frame, at that. I really like my waltly (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=206716)

This one is going to be from [/URL]

It'll be a fixed gear frame (120mm rear spacing horizontal dropouts) with a belt drive split. English threaded BB. Straight 1 1/8 head tube for external cup headset. I've also elected to go with a fork from them, also, set up for standard rim brake (I have a spare Paul Racer M I'll run).

I have no issue with my waltly frame and would happily order from them again. I am going with Titan for this for two reasons:

Titan offers a few more accessories that I'm considering grabbing (they have titanium headsets for $80, so I may grab one of those)
they offer PVD coating, which Waltly does not. I plan to go with the rainbow PVD coating for maximum silliness


If you go to the "showcase" section of the titan website, you can see (in the bottom left two images called "titanium black" and "titanium gold and rainbow" what the PVD coatings look like)

You can see some of the other things titan offers on their [URL="https://www.aliexpress.com/store/705853?aff_platform=aaf&cpt=1515897613327&sk=zj6qB6AIM&aff_trace_key=3747fe0e4e414dbc9bc76648a9069fab-1515897613327-05829-zj6qB6AIM&terminal_id=175c7890a65940c1a2a114657d0c744e"]aliexpress page (http://www.titancycles.com/), which has some interesting stuff, particularly their tandems and triples!
Amusingly enough, one of the best riding bikes I've ever had was my Raleigh Rush hour (a basic basic fixed gear frame) from a few years back when it was still a cromoly frame not hi-ten like it was the last couple years; I've taken geometry close to that in my size, and added some head tube height. Because of the headtube height I've gone for, it will be a sloping top tube, not a perfectly horizonal tube like many of us love aesthetics of.


I likely will track down eventually a titanium stem to go with it, although I'll play around with stems from my pile-o stems before ordering a couple of those for some bikes.

Build details:
I'll eventually grab a ti stem, as stated above
I will run Profile Racing Cranks
Paul Racer M Brake
Ritchey WCS Evocurve bars
Gates CDX belt system 55/19 gear ratio, I suspect
Either my archetype to Phil Woold or my ENVE 4.5 to Paul wheelset
Ti-seatpost
Probably a ti headset from these folks also


Will update you all as things progress.

[oldpotatoe]

Greetings people of thepaceline!

I've just put down a deposit on another frame. And another china-sourced custom titanium frame, at that. I really like my waltly (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=206716)

This one is going to be from [/URL]

It'll be a fixed gear frame (120mm rear spacing horizontal dropouts) with a belt drive split. English threaded BB. Straight 1 1/8 head tube for external cup headset. I've also elected to go with a fork from them, also, set up for standard rim brake (I have a spare Paul Racer M I'll run).

I have no issue with my waltly frame and would happily order from them again. I am going with Titan for this for two reasons:

Titan offers a few more accessories that I'm considering grabbing (they have titanium headsets for $80, so I may grab one of those)
they offer PVD coating, which Waltly does not. I plan to go with the rainbow PVD coating for maximum silliness


If you go to the "showcase" section of the titan website, you can see (in the bottom left two images called "titanium black" and "titanium gold and rainbow" what the PVD coatings look like)

You can see some of the other things titan offers on their [URL="https://www.aliexpress.com/store/705853?aff_platform=aaf&cpt=1515897613327&sk=zj6qB6AIM&aff_trace_key=3747fe0e4e414dbc9bc76648a9069fab-1515897613327-05829-zj6qB6AIM&terminal_id=175c7890a65940c1a2a114657d0c744e"]aliexpress page (http://www.titancycles.com/), which has some interesting stuff, particularly their tandems and triples!
Amusingly enough, one of the best riding bikes I've ever had was my Raleigh Rush hour (a basic basic fixed gear frame) from a few years back when it was still a cromoly frame not hi-ten like it was the last couple years; I've taken geometry close to that in my size, and added some head tube height. Because of the headtube height I've gone for, it will be a sloping top tube, not a perfectly horizonal tube like many of us love aesthetics of.


I likely will track down eventually a titanium stem to go with it, although I'll play around with stems from my pile-o stems before ordering a couple of those for some bikes.

Build details:
I'll eventually grab a ti stem, as stated above
I will run Profile Racing Cranks
Paul Racer M Brake
Ritchey WCS Evocurve bars
Gates CDX belt system 55/19 gear ratio, I suspect
Either my archetype to Phil Woold or my ENVE 4.5 to Paul wheelset
Ti-seatpost
Probably a ti headset from these folks also


Will update you all as things progress.

Sounds like a sweet rig...wet weather bike? Fenders and all or just a 'fun bike'? Make sure you get a belt adjust system, either a hand held one or the 'ap'..yup, there's an ap for that..uses 'tone'.

[MaraudingWalrus]

Sounds like a sweet rig...wet weather bike? Fenders and all or just a 'fun bike'? Make sure you get a belt adjust system, either a hand held one or the 'ap'..yup, there's an ap for that..uses 'tone'.

Over the last three or so years the majority of my miles have been on fixed gear bikes, mostly on my Raleigh Macaframa, which is certainly more traditional track geometry, so not always the most comfortable ride.

I plan to have fender mounts, although I don't really ride in the rain.


Oh yes, familiar with both the gates app and the little cricket tool....for what it's worth, Barnett indicates that the app is more accurate than the clicky tool, but that's predicated on having a pretty darn quiet space.

[oldpotatoe]

Over the last three or so years the majority of my miles have been on fixed gear bikes, mostly on my Raleigh Macaframa, which is certainly more traditional track geometry, so not always the most comfortable ride.

I plan to have fender mounts, although I don't really ride in the rain.


Oh yes, familiar with both the gates app and the little cricket tool....for what it's worth, Barnett indicates that the app is more accurate than the clicky tool, but that's predicated on having a pretty darn quiet space.

We used both in the shop and kinda took average. The thing we noticed tho was how farging tight the belt was when it was proper. Guide doohickys on more modern belt cogs and rings helped a lot.

[MaraudingWalrus]

Guide doohickys.

are you referring to the CDX system with the center ridge on the cogs and rings and the corresponding channel on the belt? It makes a huge difference with belt retention/not walking its way off to the side!

[Burnette]

I looked for Titan's site and missed it by typing Titan Bicycles, that was a different company. Typed in Titan Cycles and got it. Impressive web site, I like the way the pages unfold, well done. People wonder why we gave Ben a hard time about his site, he should look at this one, kinda awesome>
http://www.titancycles.com/#

So I see you're keen on belt drive. How do they perform in wet and grit conditions? Do they require more cleaning? I have never seen a belt set up before except online and don't know much about them.

[MaraudingWalrus]

I looked for Titan's site and missed it by typing Titan Bicycles, that was a different company. Typed in Titan Cycles and got it. Impressive web site, I like the way the pages unfold, well done. People wonder why we gave Ben a hard time about his site, he should look at this one, kinda awesome>

http://www.titancycles.com/#



So I see you're keen on belt drive. How do they perform in wet and grit conditions? Do they require more cleaning? I have never seen a belt set up before except online and don't know much about them.



I really quite like belt drive. It is theoretically less maintenance than a chain system (no lubrication needed, just wash off any accumulated stuff). Also the belt will last longer, provided alignment - ie chain line (belt line I suppose) is dead on.

The quietness of a belt drive bike is incredible.

Also they're funky and different, which I'm all about.

[Burnette]

I went to their "Showcase" and that folding bike is rad, I like it. They do some really great looking stuff.

And, there is just something about titanium.

I went back and see that they are in China. That would explain the low prices for a frame. I check out your future post with much interest. Hope all goes well and if they can deliver that level of quality on time and for that money, they make the list.

Keep us updated.

[MaraudingWalrus]

I went to their "Showcase" and that folding bike is rad, I like it. They do some really great looking stuff.

And, there is just something about titanium.

I went back and see that they are in China. That would explain the low prices for a frame. I check out your future post with much interest. Hope all goes well and if they can deliver that level of quality on time and for that money, they make the list.

Keep us updated.

Definitely. There's some crazy stuff on there and on their Aliexpress page I linked above. Totally silly, some of it.

I was (and continue to be) totally jazzed with the quality of my waltly, and don't expect anything to be different here. It's not quite as nice, probably, as a Kish or whatnot custom builder here stateside, but also it's a fraction of the price of many of those.

The downsides being the lack of person in the timezone to contact should a problem arise (say geometry showing up not as specified, or some issue down the line), also you don't necessarily get the same guidance you would from someone here in the states if you send them geometry that will ride silly.

Process sort of goes like:

Walrus: This is what I want _____
Frame Builder in China: Roger, confirm drawings of ____ are as requested.
Walrus: Looks good - that's what I asked for!
Frame Builder In China: Great, we'll make it.


Whereas with say Indyfab you'd likely have more back and forth

Walrus: I'd like ____
Indyfab: Sure, but have you considered that if you do __X___ that you'll have catastrophic toe overlap and kittens will die?
Walrus: No that sounds horrible, what about __Y___
Indy: Yes that's better, we'll do that.
Indy: also have you considered Z amount of trail? People find that's better because Reasons
Walrus: No I don't even know what trail is, but Reasons are scary!


**** not actual conversations, purely theorized *****


I also could see a situation where someone who was interested in a frame from Ron English or someone else with a million year lead time and a crazy high wait time, could order one of these to have in six-seven weeks and try their geometry and make sure they're totally jazzed before the final deal. This theoretical person would likely have to have all the money to have proof of concept frame made before their actual dream frame, but still, could see that situation. And build the dream frame up with nicer bits at the end, but have two identical geo bikes with different parts on them?

[Burnette]

Definitely. There's some crazy stuff on there and on their Aliexpress page I linked above. Totally silly, some of it.

I was (and continue to be) totally jazzed with the quality of my waltly, and don't expect anything to be different here. It's not quite as nice, probably, as a Kish or whatnot custom builder here stateside, but also it's a fraction of the price of many of those.

The downsides being the lack of person in the timezone to contact should a problem arise (say geometry showing up not as specified, or some issue down the line), also you don't necessarily get the same guidance you would from someone here in the states if you send them geometry that will ride silly.

Process sort of goes like:

Walrus: This is what I want _____
Frame Builder in China: Roger, confirm drawings of ____ are as requested.
Walrus: Looks good - that's what I asked for!
Frame Builder In China: Great, we'll make it.


Whereas with say Indyfab you'd likely have more back and forth

Walrus: I'd like ____
Indyfab: Sure, but have you considered that if you do __X___ that you'll have catastrophic toe overlap and kittens will die?
Walrus: No that sounds horrible, what about __Y___
Indy: Yes that's better, we'll do that.
Indy: also have you considered Z amount of trail? People find that's better because Reasons
Walrus: No I don't even know what trail is, but Reasons are scary!


**** not actual conversations, purely theorized *****


I also could see a situation where someone who was interested in a frame from Ron English or someone else with a million year lead time and a crazy high wait time, could order one of these to have in six-seven weeks and try their geometry and make sure they're totally jazzed before the final deal. This theoretical person would likely have to have all the money to have proof of concept frame made before their actual dream frame, but still, could see that situation. And build the dream frame up with nicer bits at the end, but have two identical geo bikes with different parts on them?

Yeah, I'm in that boat. This is a cool way to see for cheap if the geo jives. To have to ride something for awhile to know. The prices are crazy low.
Keep us posted on how it all goes. I'm looking for a low budget project. I'll look at this thread with much interest!

[oldpotatoe]

are you referring to the CDX system with the center ridge on the cogs and rings and the corresponding channel on the belt? It makes a huge difference with belt retention/not walking its way off to the side!

Yup, guide doohickeys..I like technical terms.:)

[Mikej]

Where do they source their ti from?

[MaraudingWalrus]

Yup, guide doohickeys..I like technical terms.:)



Technical language is the best language! I have a bin at the shop labeled "shifty bits" with random shifters etc in it.

[MaraudingWalrus]

Frame should be done soon. Chinese new year means the factory is closed for a couple more days.

I did get these pictures from Jen Green at Revolution Cycle Jewelry today, however....

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[donevwil]

Look forward to the build. I have one of their setback seatposts bought more as a novelty than for need. It's quality and aesthetics are excellent and the clamp function rivals my Moots.

I'm also a belt drive fan. My wife's Alfine 11, belt, BB7 commuter is the most reliable, maintenance free bike we've owned. The only thing that would make it better is if it were a few pounds lighter (Ti).

[MaraudingWalrus]

Frame is done, heading off to get it's PVD coating now. That should be done in another couple days. Pretty stoked!

[MaraudingWalrus]

Just got the first photos....it's quite subtle,very understated.


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[yarg]

Nice!

[notsew]

That looks rad!

I don't know much about PVD coating. What are they putting on there to make it do that? I mean, its not a paint right, its like a plating?

[Drmojo]

quiet like my electric car
Belt drve fixed will be my next bike
I enjoy my 650b mechaincal disc brake Raliegh
Compass Babyshoes
Alfine 11
no lube required
I will stay tuned Walrus
Wish you were my size
I did dig your belt Cdale
And the IF recently for sale here

[MaraudingWalrus]

That looks rad!

I don't know much about PVD coating. What are they putting on there to make it do that? I mean, its not a paint right, its like a plating?

I've read about it several times, but don't have a full grasp on it. There are multiple different processes that fall under the umbrella. But basically some material is vaporized into a chamber (sometimes this chamber is a vacuum), then it resettles as a thin film around the object being coated, and this film is potentially super abrasion resistant.


But yes, a plating, not a paint.


If I recall from something I read, frost settling onto something in the morning is technically physical vapor deposition process.

It's sort of like powder coating, except rather than paint, the material that's actually doing the coating is metal.

That's my ten cent way-too-simple summary that may or may not be completely wrong

[m_sasso]

If you are interested in the process lookup "sputter coating" evolved from a method of SEM specimen preparation. During my time as a dental researcher at a large Canadian university we evaluated the growth of connective tissue on sputter coated Ti prepared samples simulating dental implants. A good friend, running buddy was an electronics researcher at the same university and he and his lab did the sputter coating preparation for our Ti samples. We had an SEM in our research department with a sputter coater however at the time it only accepted specimens on a much smaller scale.

[MaraudingWalrus]

If you are interested in the process lookup "sputter coating" evolved from a method of SEM specimen preparation. During my time as a dental researcher at a large Canadian university we evaluated the growth of connective tissue on sputter coated Ti prepared samples simulating dental implants. A good friend, running buddy was an electronics researcher at the same university and he and his lab did the sputter coating preparation for our Ti samples. We had an SEM in our research department with a sputter coater however at the time it only accepted specimens on a much smaller scale.

Yes! That's one of the types I'd read about. Interesting stuff for sure. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[MaraudingWalrus]

Shipping was complicated/delayed by the storms in the northeast. Tracking number sat idle since March 16 saying "processed through facility in Xiamen" with my contact at the factory having indication that its flight had landed in NY. Tons of traffic and flights got messed up/delayed and there must have been a huge backlog.

Tracking updated last night and it's cleared the facility in NY and indicates it'll be delivered to the shop Saturday.

Should be able to build it up Saturday/Sunday provided the last of my other parts show up in a timely manner.

[MaraudingWalrus]

Frame didn't show up, and the tracking number no longer indicates an expected delivery date.

Simply says "In transit" and that's been processed through the ISC facility in New York.

From reading a whole bunch of angry comment threads online, it appears that it hasn't been scanned since the 10th. It may still be in transit, and it's possible it doesn't get scanned again until it just shows up one day....or it's lost and gone forever. We'll see.


In the meantime I just won an ebay bid for a left hand/front Sram hydraulic Rim brake setup.

[sandyrs]

Frame didn't show up, and the tracking number no longer indicates an expected delivery date.

Simply says "In transit" and that's been processed through the ISC facility in New York.

From reading a whole bunch of angry comment threads online, it appears that it hasn't been scanned since the 10th. It may still be in transit, and it's possible it doesn't get scanned again until it just shows up one day....or it's lost and gone forever. We'll see.


In the meantime I just won an ebay bid for a left hand/front Sram hydraulic Rim brake setup.

Wow, that really sucks. :(

[MaraudingWalrus]

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Got it in! Here's a photo of the headset (and the steerer tube in the background).

Will update later today with pictures of more of it.

[MaraudingWalrus]

Got the frame in today!

Frame weighs 1600g, fork 750g. Headset 127g. Headset and all bits (aside from the bolt) are also all ti.


Don't quite have all the belt drive bits in, should be here this week. Might build it up tomorrow with a chain, I've got a small mountain of wheels, etc to get it rolling.



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[MaraudingWalrus]

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[spinarelli]

Jeff Jones was on this podcast and had a few interesting things to say about manufacturing Titanium in Asia, Taiwan especially. Worth listening to.

https://www.behindthehandlebarspodcast.com/podcasts/2018/4/18/ep-31-jeff-jones-jones-bikes

[bironi]

Funky looking finish, love the head badge. Should look good all dressed up.

[exapkib]

I'm so interested in seeing how this builds up.

Refreshing (and inspiring) to see the unique creations you've come up with. I've always been drawn to the belt drive, and hope to implement something like this for my commuter someday.

(Which reminds me--did you find a buyer for the belt-drive Cannondale?)

[MaraudingWalrus]

(Which reminds me--did you find a buyer for the belt-drive Cannondale?)

I did. Local guy here who I'd actually sold a set of wheels to picked it up.

[exapkib]

I did. Local guy here who I'd actually sold a set of wheels to picked it up.

Glad to hear it--that one called to me more than once. If things come together (as I hope) to pursue a similar 'customization' project in the future I'll definitely reach out for your advice and experience.

[MaraudingWalrus]

Got it as together as I think I'm going to for a couple days. Have that sram hydro rim brake arriving Tuesday and Thursday the rest of the belt drive bits should be here.

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[sokyroadie]

Nice frame, but why not a larger size since it was custom?

Just curious, not being critical.

[MaraudingWalrus]

Nice frame, but why not a larger size since it was custom?



Just curious, not being critical.



I think I am the only person in the universe who likes the look of compact frame geometry/sloping top tube. And head tube is actually quite monstrous as it is. I hope to ride a bunch this summer and get a bit fitter than where I currently am and bring the bars down to just about a five mil spacer under the stem.

[MaraudingWalrus]

Got in the brake I'm going to use.

Sram Hydraulic rim brake. Will take off the shift lever part of it when I get around to it.


Anybody have a lever body laying around for the right? Shifter and brake parts need not work.


Belt drive parts maybe showing up Thursday? Should have it out on the road Sunday morning!

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[MaraudingWalrus]

Jeff Jones was on this podcast and had a few interesting things to say about manufacturing Titanium in Asia, Taiwan especially. Worth listening to.

https://www.behindthehandlebarspodcast.com/podcasts/2018/4/18/ep-31-jeff-jones-jones-bikes

A very interesting listen! I always am frustrated by the idea that simply because something was made in place X it is better than something else, ignoring all other things about it. Place of origin, quality, and price are all things that matter to anyone buying a thing. If you imagine them as sliders each person has their own mix that works best for them. An inexpensive thing made well somewhere else is preferable to me than an equally well made thing made "here" for multiple times the price.

obviously everyone has their own amount that place of origin matters. nobody is right or wrong as it's their own widget, not anyone else's.







Also grabbed a SRAM rival hydro rim brake rear setup for $100 to use for the right hand of this bike; will gut the lever and remove the brake.

[MaraudingWalrus]

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The world's most expensive dummy lever?had to resist temptation to buy a "nicer" one than Rival. Just going to take the lever blades off and disconnect the brake hose for the right side of the fixed gear - and if I ever put it back together for use on a geared bike, I can get Red or Force lever blades.

[fa63]

Happy to see that front hub found a very nice home!

[MaraudingWalrus]

Have it built up. Shakedown ride tomorrow. Will tape the bars tonight and swap out to the Enve pads before the ride tomorrow.

Will be taking the required tools for adjusting some fit with me, obviously. I'd forgotten how long the reach on the hydro levers is compared to others not sure what implications that'll have for my stem length in the future.


Looking forward to it.


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[MaraudingWalrus]

got a chance to ride the bike today. Took it for a short ride (15miles) on a new rail to trail system that opened up here recently that I hadn't yet been on.



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I swapped out the post to one of my straight posts, which played nicer with the monstrous reach of the levers. We'll see how that feels for a couple weeks of riding.


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The bike rides very well. It's super stable and not as twitchy as lots of fixed gear bikes I've ridden and owned. Riding no handed it does stay very straight - it didn't take a significant amount of "getting used to" like a couple of bikes with super quick steering that I've ridden.



It does seem to ride like what I had intended, which is a road bike in the vein of a Cannondale Synapse (from which I loosely stole the geometry) that happens to be fixed gear, rather than a track bike. Also I have no toe overlap, which is nice.



The ride was mostly on a rail trail which is nearly dead straight, so I don't really know how it corners at speed, but my few cornering events seemed nice enough. Bottom bracket is reasonably high, so I'm not terrified of striking a pedal.





The hydro rim brake is pretty nice, and it's also very silly - which I'm obviously all about.





Will ride again tomorrow with a few more corners on a road I've ridden millions of times, so it'll be nice to compare it to the tens of thousands of miles of other riding I've done on that road.





Haven't ridden much in the last year, let alone much riding fixed, so I know I'll feel it in my legs by this afternoon.

[MaraudingWalrus]

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Took the shift paddles out of the shifters, but actually left the shift internals inside the lever, as removing those on the hydro levers requires more work than I wanted (removing the brake lever, and things that would require bleeding the brake).

Also wound up needing to grab a longer spindle. The one I'd previously used I had used without some conical spacers on the cranks for a super narrow Q factor, but didn't want to run the same super narrow q factor on here, so needed a bit longer spindle (5.25 inch to 5.625 inches). The shorter one didn't quite protrude enough into the bosses of the cranks, so they wouldn't quite stay tight. New, longer one seems to have solved that.


Great riding bike, also my Mack high flange superlight hubs should be shipping any day now, and I'll build up my 404 tubular rims to those, and take a foray into the world of tubulars for the first time.

[MaraudingWalrus]

Have my new wheels finished up, first Tuesday I'll have ridden also. If it stops monsooning I'll ride tomorrow morning.

The tires are interesting, they're from YellowJersey (http://www.yellowjersey.org/tt.html). 3 for $50, and they're seemingly old style Corsas with a butyl tube. Not bad.

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[R3awak3n]

Dude this is ridiculously cool

[MaraudingWalrus]

I just picked up a stem that I ordered from Titan. It's not actually going on this bike, but I figured this was a good place to put pictures of it (because this thread is sort of about Titan)
155g for 100mm length. Welds look nice enough. It's about all I can say about it. I just ordered it from the titan store on aliexpress after contact directly to discuss the specifics.

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