bike, child and dog friendly vehicle?

[Climb01742]

in a few months, my lease will be up on my present car, a bmw 5-series wagon. as much as i love how this car drives, and even though it is a wagon, it just isn't a very practical vehicle for hauling around kids, dogs and bikes. i'm afraid i need something bigger. so i was wondering, what do others drive? has anyone found a good car/SUV for hauling stuff? living with a vehicle is the real test of its worth. what have you guys/gals found worthy? thanks. :confused:

[JohnS]

Get a minivan. They have enough room to load the bikes upright in a fork mount attached to the floor.

[flydhest]

No kids, but we have a Volvo V70--it's a T5 to boot. Cap'n Smiley liked driving it up to Saratoga Springs last year for the open house, so you know it's fun to drive.

Our dog Lucy digs the back area, it's like having three big screen TVs playing "The World Around You" all without commercial breaks. The back seat has the LATCH child seat tethers. We have 4 bike racks on top. With the back seat in use, we can fit a bike in Lucy's area, but must take off at least one wheel, and it's a lot easier if you take off both. We haven't tried it, but with both wheels off, we could likely fit two bikes and still use the back seat if we wanted to avoid using the roof rack. Of course, then most of the cargo space would be gone.

We get 30 mph on the highway, despite having the "Detroit Engine" as a friend of mine describes it. We live in the middle of D.C. and it is fine in the city in terms of size.

I feel like it has more useable space than our friend's BMW 5 series wagon that we drove while we were deciding. I can sit behind myself, so to speak. When testing cars, I would position the driver's seat and then see if I could set in the back seat behind it. I'm 6'2" and in this car (and not so many others) I was comfortable. Oddly, though it won't work for your needs, the Honda Accord has even more room, go figure.

[csb]

[va rider]

We have 2 boys (4 1/2 and 3 yrs old), a little girl due in early June, a golden retreiver, my wife and I. We had a Volvo wagon, but it was too small.

We now have an 04 Toyota Sienna minivan. I did not want a minivan but knew that was the solution. I gotta tell you, I really like it. Traveling is so much easier. We can fit everybody in the van, and a few more. There is a deep well behind the rear seats, so we have plenty of storage. I use a hitch with a bike rack and it works well. My dog has plenty of room.

I don't know if you plan on having more kids, but the minivan really makes life easier. Power sliding doors, wireless headsets, 10 air bags including curtain bags. You will being constantly liftin your kids in and out of the seats and the height of the minivan is perfect.

It is not a BMW, but, man does it make travelling easier. It drives really nice. The rear seats fold completely back into the rear well or can be folded up 60/40. I can put my bike in the van standing, with a rear seat down. And we ride about the same size bike.

Don't knock it, till you tried it.

[Smiley]

We have an Escpae SUV that tows "Another Wrinkle" just fine at about 2900# load but if I did not have the boat I would opt for the new Hybrid Escape and be Green . This vehicle has been in fleet service out west for over 1 year and now its being made available to the public out east. The test ride they did at the NY auto show had them driving this car for 37 straight hours in manhatten on one tank of gas and the net result was they drove the thing 570 miles . Because the test was 37 straight hours in the city you had lots of rush hour traffic to contend with.Get Green Climb and don't look back as I know for a fact that the Arabs are not going to lower the price of oil and that Iraq oil dividend thing ...well forget about it.

[Ozz]

The minivan is really the practical choice...I think the Toyota Sienna is the current class leader, and comes in AWD if you require that. Otherwise, the Honda Odyssey is a close second.

If you can't bring yourself to drive a minivan, take a look at the Honda Pilot. It is by far the roomiest of the mid-size SUV's. It has three rows of seats (sacrificing cargo area when used) so your kids can bring friends along. Also, unlike it's twin, the Acura MDX, it runs on regular gas.

I have had one since last August, and it gets pretty decent mileage (18/25)for a SUV. If you take long trips, I recommend the DVD system....

We have one child, number two is due in August, and two dogs. The dogs almost don't count since together, they weigh about 10 lbs (Japanese Chins). I've driven SUV's since 1987 (Bronco II, Olds Bravada, Jeep Grand Cherokee) and the Pilot is by far the quietest and easiest to drive.

BTW - So the anti-SUV crowd doesn't jump all over me, most days I take a bus to work, or ride my bike when my schedule allows. When I do commute, it is less than 10 miles. My wife works about 2 miles from our home.

[Climb01742]

my brain says minivans make the most sense. but damn, it's a minivan. i'm not sure i'm ready for one. and yes, it is about ego/image. i admit it.

the hybrid idea intrigues me. toyota/lexus is coming out with them, too, i think. the honda pilot looks very practical. from a reliability standpoint, toyota and honda always get high marks. a volvo V90 looks roomy, while a V70R is fast. the struggle for me is: practicality versus driving fun. i wish i had the money and garage space to have a practical choice and a fun choice, but for now, i gotta find one choice. all suggestions/experiences welcome. working in advertising myself, i know you can't trust what ads say about a car! :rolleyes:

[my2cents]

1 and 3 year old boys, mix breed weighing about 55 lbs, wife and her mtb bike, me and my road and mtb bikes, trek deluxe trailer and 12" kids bike, and grandma along with a weeks worth of vacation gear all loaded quite nicely into and on top of the sienna for trip from just north of boston to upstate vermont. traded-in a passat wagon. i love LOVE having the minivan. wish i could have sprung for one of the sportier models but money and availability (thank goodness 'cause as much as I was enticed but firmer suspension, and bigger wheels and leather and dvd players, and awd, and etc.) conspired to put us in the base model. more than happy with our decision. Some of the new american minivans look interesting (i have never found an american made car that i have liked as mush as whatever foreign car i have bought at the time, but just features wise, if in the market this moment, i would look at them)

if toyota comes thru in 2 years with the alternative fuel sienna they are hinting at, we will be all over it-- can't have too many mini vans!

[flydhest]

Climb,

Fill in the details about number of kids and size of dog. VA Rider had a Volvo that was too small, but they're working on three kids and have to use child seats. Again, I do not have kids, so a clear argument is that I have no idea how much space you need. I was, however, the youngest of four boys with the oldest being 5-1/2 years older so I have some recollection.

What are you thinking about hauling the bikes? Do they have to be inside or can they be on top/behind? This will make a huge difference, I think.

The Volvo T5 or the R will definitely be in the fun-to-drive category. The Pilot seems roomy (although I am a card-carrying member of the anti-SUV crowd, I find Ozz not to be offensive :D sheesh, we anti-SUV'ers aren't all a'holes) Think about your garage space, though. My Volvo actually fits easily with another sedan in our garage, not too bad with my brother's Grand Cherokee, but I can't imagine my brother and my father both parking their Grand Cherokees at the same time. Wait a minute . . . was I adopted???

I suggest you take the whole family to a couple dealerships--with a bike or two--and try it out. That was really clutch for me in finding out which vehicles actually had the useable space I wanted. If the salesperson looks askance say, "Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were intersted in selling me a car. Bye."

[Climb01742]

cargo details: one child (age 7), three dogs (22 lbs, 45 lbs and soon-to-be-60-70 lbs lab pupster) and would love to be able to put bikes inside. odds of having to carry all this at once is small. child and dogs is one typical combo. two bikes a normal load. and one child and 1-2 bikes is normal, too. height of vehicle might be key. a typical wagon is a little too short, so bike(s) must lay flat if they are inside. but something with a higher roof, and bike(s) could stand up. if possible, i'd rather burn as little fossil fuel as i could.

[TimD]

Forgive me, but y'all are way off the mark. What Climb really needs is a 1998 911 (993) Carrera 4S with Porsche Roof Transport System (for the bikes) and a small trailer (for the dogs). Daily driver, with a set of Michelin Arctic Alpine snows on Technology twist wheels for the really deep white stuff.

You only live once, you might as well maximize the number of times you drive past minivans and SUVs and, well, laugh your ass off... :banana: :banana: :banana:

[csb]

forget the subaru wagon or any other wagon,
small bus with horse trailer is what you'll be
needing.
i had a dog, front passenger (notice dog is listed first)
fishing equip., and A bike as cargo with rear seat folded
down, but 2 more dogs + child aint gonna work.

[Climb01742]

timD--you suck. :p damn, man, a C4S is heaven on wheels. someday. of course, i could get a ceyenne and just put the dogs and bikes on the roof. i just keep telling myself, for once in my darn life, make the practical choice here. being a grown-up and actually acting like one stinks.

[Redturbo]

Chevy Avalanche, Does it all, but may be to alttle big for city folks.

turbo

[Sandy]

You are bad! Real bad!

Sandy

[JohnS]

What about aesthetics? Those are as bad as a Pontiac Aztek. I can hear the GM engineers now, "let's use cheap grey plastic for the bodysides, call it high-tech, and charge more, even though it costs less!".

[weisan]

Minivan. To help you overcome the mental barrier, think "utility."

I saw on a recent Reader's Digest, the latest Dodge Grand Caravan has the ability to fold down both rows of backseats. I thought that was handy. However, I am not selling the Chrysler brand. Typically, the Toyotas and the Hondas have better long-term reliability.

Happy shopping for your new family vehicle.

[TimD]

I knew you guys would like that one :)

Having the bikes indoors is great but if you can live with them on the roof you can do a small wagon again (a buddy who is no stranger to Porsche has an older 540 wagon and loves it, claims he was doing 135 up 495 earlier this week.I believe him; he's nuts and needs a couple of track days to calm hisself down again.)

Or maybe you could do some sort of oddball 4-door short-bed truck-like thing.

The problem with the bigger vehicles is that the space is rarely fully utilized; I've done OK accomodating the exceptional condition with things like roof racks & roof boxes. Haven't yet gone to a trailer but I definitely see their utility.

[davids]

I've thought for a while now that the ideal set-up would be a minivan (I'm partial to the Odyssey) and a small sports sedan (Acura TSX, Audi A4, BMW 3-series - take your pick!) My imperfect (but very workable) set-up is a Mercury Sable wagon and an Acura TL. Both very well-suited for their tasks - The Sable is the kid/bike hauler, and the TL is for touring, style, and pleasure.

One vehicle? The Honda Pilot is great, or you can dress it up as an Acura MDX. They're both actually more car than truck. Personally, I'd go for a wagon, but then I'm not a dog person...

Good luck!

[DfCas]

No carpet for doghair to stick to,greatest headroom of any vehicle,greatest rear legroom on earth,5 speed available,2 or AWD available,waterproof,scrubable seats,fold up/removable rear seats,20mpg in town.Cheap.I like it the best of anything I've ever had.Will hold a tandem inside with the factory armrest in place,

Dan C.

[Birddog]

Not sure if it's big enough, but the Suburu Outback is soon (if not already) to come with an option for the turbocharged horizontal 6 banger. The WRX is a little screamer. I'd assume the outback will not be quite as fast, but surely pretty quick.

Birddog

[IXXI]

Climb, I had this same issue myself a year ago. Sacrificed a *mint* 1986 Landcruiser for...yes, a Hondy Oddity. 1 wife, 3 kids, 1 dog, and a bike in back (you could squeeze in another bike with careful packing.)

Unfortunately getting 'driving fun' together with a practical package is going to be limited and relative at best.

Go for the most practical, well-designed, least-offensive mini van you can bear. Offset with a 911.

(It works!)

[Ahneida Ride]

Investigate a full Sized Ford E150 van with the Chateau package or
a conversion unit. If you shop around, you can secure a great deal.
Full sized don't seel that well and dealers wnat em off the lot.

They are a steal compared to mini van. check the prices.
Make sure a Limited slip in installed, otherwise the van is useless
in snow/foul weather.

[Climb01742]

hey, DfCas--how does the element drive? its intriguing, because at the price of an element, a second, used "fun" car might be possible. (like an '87 911!) and to the minivan owners/drivers--help me get over the mental part. does the practicality really outweigh the, well, minivan-ness of it? i really do appreciate everyone's help. i love driving but i need more practicality. the conflict is driving me nuts! :crap:

[slowgoing]

I have joined the SUV crowd. Too scared of being low and plowed into the side at window level by an Escalade, particularly when toting my son around (a report just came out about how poorly cars and passengers fare in such situations). Don't know if any X3 or X5 are in your price range. They don't seem as practical as what you have now but they sure are fun. For sheer practicality and reliability and gas mileage, I'd go with a Pilot or MDX.

[vaxn8r]

OK, having had SUV's and minivans.....the minivan wins hands down for practicality. Not even remotely close. A big SUV, like a Suburban is great fully loaded with 4 kids and tons of luggage and bikes and maybe pulling a boat too....do you need that? I guess you have to decide how often. IMO, smaller SUV's are a waste because they really compromise on interior space. I say if you're getting one get a Sub/Tahoe/Exped. Go full hog or skip it.

No way would I be interested in a Pilot over a minivan. The Pilot has less room, higher load/floor height, more expensive, less utility. But you do get 4WD if that's a big deal to you.

Here's what I like about my Odyssey. And it is my daily driver. My ego doesn't suffer too much...I just take it out on other cyclists on Saturdays ;)

Plenty of options inside with fold down rear and 2nd seats which can be moved together or apart or laid down (not flat) or removed (flat). I can put my tandem in the car without removing any seats and still drive 4 people around and lots of luggage. Two bikes with front wheels off and 3 passengers and plenty of luggage. One bike with 2 wheels off, 7 people and still good luggage.

Down side? It's not a BMW, but having said that, it is the best handling minivan with best engine. It has plenty of go, way more than enough, and it handles very nicely for the big vehicle it really is. It really is pretty fun to drive twisty fast roads in this thing. The brakes are fabulous. SUV's, not so much fun to drive that way and forget about quick stops in your bigger SUV. Gas mileage is NOT as great as you'd think. 18 city and 24 hwy, fully loaded with all your stuff, it makes no difference.

I've driven both.....get the minivan. BTW, Toyota's are really nice, but they don't give as much driver feedback...more isolated from the road and not as much pickup. Plus Sienna's are $$$$$$$$$$. If you want all that glitz go for it. Honda's way more utilitarian...has all the useful stuff you really use anyway. Seats probably better in the Sienna. Drive 'em both.

[PaulE]

Get an Odessy or Sienna for the hauling part. Then get a fun car like a Porsche or BMW. Then the fun car can even be a two seater or convertible, because it doesn't need to be practical.

We have a 5 year old Audi A6 wagon. It was great for the first four years, when everything was free since it was under warranty or included full maintenance. But now, at 58,000 miles, it seems like its $500 every few months for something else - brake rotors, suspension control arms, water pump, etc. And this is my wife's car, and she doesn't drive hard at all.

She was anti minivan, but now she wants more room, and more reliability, so it will be an Odessy or Sienna for us soon.

[va rider]

Just for fun, take your wife and child and go drive the Sienna.

You can also look at the Highlander and 4Runner while you are at the Toyota dealer.

but, try the Sienna, I think you will be surprised. Like you, I said no way to a minivan. But, 3 adults, 3 dogs and 2 bikes = minivan.

good luck.

[Climb01742]

you guys are swaying me. sorta. i guess i gotta go drive a minivan. but i'll be wearing a disguise. :cool:

[JohnS]

I must be the only po' person here. I drive a Focus ZX3. My Concours is my high performance vehicle! :)

[Ozz]

FWIW - I really like the Pilot, but if $$$ was no object, my wife wanted the Sienna. She wanted leather, DVD, AWD, the works. This pushes the price tag well above $40K.


BTW -

IXXI, I feel for your sacrifice. Those old FJ-60 Landcruisers are my "dream car". Someday, yeah, someday...

[DfCas]

I drove the Mazda and Honda Minivans and they are perfect for carrying a lot of stuff,drive nice,and put me to sleep.Give me a 5 speed or give me nothing.
The Element has a very stiff platform,which makes for little body roll.With one rear seat folded up,a 66cm bike stands up inside.You can fit 2 bikes side by side with one seat still down in the rear.It drives more like a smaller car than an SUV.I also use it to carry piano actions in the same spot,but I doubt that anyone else on here needs it for that.

It is a 4 seater only,and less if you need to haul a lot of stuff.But with the rear seats out,a friend put a riding mower in his.Honda targeted it for 20 year olds,and so far the median owner age is about 50.I'm over the median.My wife really hated the looks at first,but now she loves it.

Dan C.

[Jollymon]

You absolutely cannot beat a minivan for convenience. I have had two Windstars for company cars and I just ordered my next one, a Freestar.

They drive like cars, and are way roomier than a mid-size SUV. They seat more people and hold more stuff. I agree on the Honda and Toyota thing, but since I turn mine in after 50k and I don't own the depreciation, a Ford works fine for me. My wife's car is a minivan as well. Yeah, we are the dorks of the neighborhood, but we never lack for space!

[davids]

Honda Element + Mazda Miata. Two extremely cool, yin-yang cars!

[Kevin]

My wifew has a 2004 Sienna XLE Limited. It is a great van. The entertainment center comes with wireless headphones so you don't have to listen to the kids music or movies. The navagation system prevents you from ever getting lost. It has plenty of room and is very comfortable.

Kevin

[Matt Barkley]

Climb,
Audi AllRoad or any Avant with roof rack. An improvement with Quattro over the BMW and you won't loose in handling or damage the environment too much (Thanks Smiley for the Green or as I like to say "Smart" chime in) Minivans just ride like SUVs - all ready to tople over - horrible hoighway handling (and the Cayenne has very little interior space)- Climb, you are used to a German Wagon Performance car.... Minivans - though super practical - are just going to annoy you. - Matt

[va rider]

WRONG! You have to be kidding me!

The Sienna and other new minvans do not drive like a SUV with all kinds of roll and are ready to topple over. Maybe minivans built in the early 90s, but not the latest crop. They drive well and with curtain air bags are some of the safest vehicles on the road. And frankly Climb, that minivan will be carrying your most precious assets, you and your family.

Quite the opposite. New minivans are not built like SUVs - frame on body, which is similar to a truck. A minvan is built on a car platform and handles much better than an SUV and much more like a car.

I drove the Odyssey, Quest and Sienna and they all drove alot better than an SUV I used to own. And, these 3 minivans are all ultra low emission vehicles, meeting Calif. upcoming smog standards in advance.

I used to own a very nice Volvo and was quite hesitant to buy a minivan. yea, I loved the performance, but I guess I decided the practicality of safely and comfortably moving my family was more important than owning a performance vehicle. Besides, when I want performance, I jump on my Serotta.

Anyway, go test drive a Sienna with your family. I paid 26k for a nicely loaded Sienna and will never look back. It's kind of like owning a Serotta with a funny looking head tube. Not the sexiest bike out there, but damn, I love the way it performs. It probably is not for you, but try it, you might like it.

[shaq-d]

i have to agree, minivan is the way to go if you need room. i/we've owned a windstar, volvo, lexus. driving the windstar was the most stress-free of them all. once i was on the highway at what i thought was a normal speed, then i looked down and lo and behold i was doing 150kmh. the engines are big enough, the view is from up high, and the chairs/cockpit/etc. are nice and roomy. and friends like it too, since they all fit comfortably. no one calls "shotgun" for the minivan...

would you get a sport-tourist bike or a tourist bike if you were going to ride around europe on a bike? get the car that fits the purpose..

sd

[Smiley]

Ford Windstar 1995 V6 3.8 liter with 181,000 miles on it and still going strong , we keep it cause its a shed for windsurfing gear , bikes galore and yes I tow my Precision 21 and my old Prindle cat with her. We also have a 2001 Ford Escape that servers as the wifes primary car and long distance tow vehicle for the Precision sailboat and finally a 2002 Nissan Maxima that gets me to Serotta in just under 6 hours for a 400 mile trip. Yes Climb buy one of each . By the way my dogs liked the Escape best cause they get better window views and they can stick their heads out the windows to take in the sniffs.

[M_A_Martin]

'99 Ford Ranger, long bed. Two seater (I've fit 6 people in the front of one though and still had room to shift...no, we didn't go far but it was sub zero and no one was walking home...)
Put a cap on one and you can fit the bikes, the dogs, and the kids all in the back.

And yes, if I have my Serotta and my Jamis in the back, the bikes are worth more than my car.

I'm told I'd get more dates if I drove a nicer car. If they're looking at the car ...I probably wouldn't do too well with them anyhow.

My last Ranger went to 330,000 with no problems until my brother-in-law got hold of it. My current Ranger is an automatic, I don't hold out that sort of hope for it.
Bonus on the Ranger is I can park it in the mean streets of the D and nobody else wants it! (knock on bits and bytes)

I am starting to look for an additional vehicle. The Honda Element is on my short list, along with a Prius and a mazda M3...or maybe the M6...Something silly with good gas mileage.

[Bruce H.]

Indeed they do. At the Philadelphia auto show they had one. It is an exact copy of the gas powered SUV (was the 330 but they changed the numbers this year) with the hybrid engine. I was told it would be about 45,000. Toyota will have the exact same SUV w/ all the bells and whistles. Same platform engine etc. for a lot less. You pay for the lexus snob appeal.
They said they would be available this fall in the east.
I saw and liked the Prius myself and going to Key West I probably will get great mileage if I get one.
Good luck!
Bruce H.

[vaxn8r]

Climb,
Audi AllRoad or any Avant with roof rack. An improvement with Quattro over the BMW and you won't loose in handling or damage the environment too much (Thanks Smiley for the Green or as I like to say "Smart" chime in) Minivans just ride like SUVs - all ready to tople over - horrible hoighway handling (and the Cayenne has very little interior space)- Climb, you are used to a German Wagon Performance car.... Minivans - though super practical - are just going to annoy you. - Matt

Matt, Matt, Matt, you haven't actually driven a minivan have you. Much closer to a BMW in handling than to a Suburban. The Odessey may look boring (I agree) but it's pretty fun to drive.

I'm not saying it's like a BMW or Audi AWD but it it's nothing at all like driving a SUV. I've owned Ford and Chevy SUV's as well as Dodge and Honda Mini's. I know what I'm talking about.

[vaxn8r]

FWIW - I really like the Pilot, but if $$$ was no object, my wife wanted the Sienna. She wanted leather, DVD, AWD, the works. This pushes the price tag well above $40K....

That's the problem with the Toy....$40K for a Minivan???? They have to be kidding. As DBRK likes to say, I cant quite wrap my head around that one....or something to that effect.

[Kevin]

Vax,

I am one of the individuals that spent nearly $40k on the 2004 Sienna and let me tell you it is worth every penny. It is loaded to the gills with amentities; navigation system, entertainment system, active cruise control (laser beams detect when you get too close to the car in front of you and applies the brakes), sonar that tells you when you get too close to a vehicle in a parking lot, back-up camera (television screen on dashboard shows waht is behind you when you back-up), all of the doors are operated by the remote (including the rear hatch), with a 240 hp engine it is fairly peppy for a large vehicle, the leather and wood interior is extremely comfortable. I can't tell you how many people have of entered my wife's Sienna and looked around and asked how much did you pay for this, when we tell them they say what a great deal. When you have to move children, dogs, bicycles and lugage the price becomes "priceless" to steal a line from Mastercard.

Kevin

[Sandy]

It sounds quite sophisticated, but does it have a periscope and Serotta torpedoes?

Submarine Sandy

[dbrk]

Climb, Climb...I know just how you feel. My kids are more grown now so I don't need to schlep them in and out anymore, just drive them around constantly. I would not put a bike on a roof unless I had to. I have two children, 10 and 14, and one skinny, skinny gentle dog who I don't like to drive around. The wife is a massage therapist in addition to being a yoga teacher and she drives with this huge table everywhere.

I have been nearly as stupid about cars as I am about bikes. I have this notion that unless you've actually tried it, it's not like you really really know. So this is what I know:

*I know that I should have gotten a mini-van but have managed to avoid it and now I don't need it. Thank goodness. This is, of course, the most practical way to go but I've never been willing to give in and now it's not required.

*I've always lugged around bikes and I MUCH prefer a car to a truck. I've had a Nissan Pathfinder and the wife has an ML 320 MB. I would not like to drive either on a daily basis. I hate that sitting up high thing, gas is terrible in comparison to a wagon, and on the highway they are loud or louder than the best cars. I hate loud. I drive a lot at 60mph or so (55 if you are an officer of the law out there, dammit) and I positively dislike the sound of big tires. Call me sensitive but why do that?

*Wagons I've owned: Subaru Outback, Volvo V70 T-5, MB C320. In bike terms all have about the same room. The AWD Subaru is best in the snow and given how I have been stuck in my half-mile driveway out here in blizzard-land, it would be a smart choice. It was nice, I found it not comfortable enough and, again, too loud. I thought the Volvo woudl be more fun, it was. It was also not nearly as reliable as the Benz is now, not even close, nor is it as quiet or as gentle. My ego no longer wants to drive, it wants to be driven. I reserve fun really for bicycles, what I want is a car (not a truck or a van) that makes life MUCH less stressful. Stress is having to pay attention to things you don't want to deal with and require great attention. The Benz, unlike the Volvo, requires much less attention because it is engineered to be quiet, hold the road, and more or less stick to it. The Volvo carried more stuff but not considerably more; it also ran far less well over the course of many, many miles. MB quality just kills Volvo, imho. The rear wheel drive MB is not what I would buy now but there was no 4Matic when I got mine---and I would REALLY LIKE the 4matic since my wife easily carves out the driveway and I routinely get stuck. The Volvo with FWD however was NO BETTER in the snow and the MB is MUCH better on dry pavement. I would not own another all-FWD vehicle after driving the Benz, it's either all-wheel (fake or real, real being only Audi or Subaru) or rear-wheel and the latter makes no sense for me.

*I'd move up to the E-Class Benz if I could afford it (I can't) or the Audi S6 (I can't afford that either). The C320 4Matic is what I would buy if I really needed a new car right now, but that's because I don't need a van and I really dislike trucks, all trucks, even ones that drive like cars (putatively like cars). The Benz and Volvo cost about the same but you pay more for the Benz and get free service and roadside for a long time. I dunno, it's that I want comfy, quiet, no hassles.

*I've owned BMWs but never again: too many mechanicals, too loud. I've owned Audis and like them better but now the ones I like are too expensive in that bang-for-buck sense. This same idea prevents me from buying certain bicycles (you all know which one...ones...).

Good luck. Spending money on a car is NO PLEASURE to me. I would much rather have a bicycle.

dbrk

no cell phone, no pager, no voice mail at work (I'm the only prof in the University without it, had it disconnected), and I'd have no telephone at home if my wife permitted it (she insists I stay in the human race) but I like the computer because I prefer to write and ink and quill are out of vogue nowadays as is courier pigeon...Cars are necessary and utterly loathesome objects.

[Kevin]

Sandy,

The periscope only comes on the James Bond edition.

Kevin

[pjm]

Yeah. It's got a Hemi.
http://www.dodge.com/autoshow/magnum/gallery.html?context=home&type=top_nav

[Climb01742]

douglas, one of the most disappointing trends in cars the last ten years has been the drop in mercedes benz quality. in the latest JD Powers quality ratings, benz is now average or below. what once were bank vaults on wheels are now testaments to "decontenting" a car. i've never owned a new benz, but for years i drove used benz, mostly wagons, that i bought with at least 100k miles on 'em. and i'd put tens of thousands of miles on 'em without ever a bit of service beyond changing the oil. i once shared your fondness for the tri-star, but what was once engineered like no other car is now sadly engineered like most things. poorly. :crap:

[djg]

Or a reasonable facsimile. My wife has a Sienna minivan, which is great for hauling family and stuff, but for which I won't claim personal ownership despite the tuscan moniker. In shopping for a second car, I wanted something at least tolerably fun, but also something that could accomodate 3 kid seats across the back seat, just in case the car had to sub for the van. I also wanted 4wd. Almost none of the mid-sized sedans passed muster. But the Volvo S60 did (the 2.5T is more fun than the 2.4). The only way to verify that it did was to bring the seats with me when I was making the rounds. Solo, my bike fits nicely in the back with the seats folded down. Full, well, Volvo sells a roof rack that goes with it or you could get an aftermarket Thule. As for the V70 wagons--those are pretty big inside--hard to see how you couldn't manage kids and bikes with a rack. Audi also makes a good sized wagon (the A6 or the Allroad) but these are a bit pricier and maybe a tad less reliable on published data.

Personally I didn't want an SUV. The wife was pushing them, so I test drove a few. In fact, I even bought a relatively recent Mercedes SUV at Carmax on her urging. But after driving it around for two days I felt like a schmuck so I took it back. Of the ones I test drove I liked the VW the best, but I just wasn't comfortable getting an suv.

[gasman]

Climb-
MB and other carmakers have had their reliability drop off in the last couple years because of all the electronic geegaws they are putting in them. MB recently said that they have told the engineers to focus on having only those functions that are necessary and improve safety. They are aware of the problem and know they need to correct it. The car market is too competative.

I went through a similar problem as you a few years ago. Our Volvo wagon was just not big enough for 2 kids plus friends plus dog, bike, camping gear etc. My wife didn't want a minivan because "I don't want to look like a soccer mom with two kids and a dog. " Uh-oh, I thought. Warning don't say "Well isn't that what you are ?" I didn't and I didn't even get her to look at minivans. We bought a Suburban.We vowed to use it only when we really needed the capacity, and in retrospect I'm glad we got it. It is great for big trips camping, skiing etc. It sits in the garage 10 months out of the year but when we need it it's great.I am lucky enough to be able to ride my bike a short 3.5 miles to work every day. I keep a really old Honda Accord around when I need to drive in town.
So, get something with enough room for your needs, do look at minivans.Honda and Toyota are both great choices.

[vaxn8r]

Sorry Kevin, didn't mean to offend. I guess as far as cars go I'm a little more like DBRK...neccessary evil. Though I can see wanting to be pampered. Hey, my Oddessy does have electric windows :)

Like Gasman, the only SUV I would even consider buying again would be a Sub. With 4 kids, it's big enough to be useful on vacations....which is what it's for. It is impressive looking with a tandem and a road bike or two on top, 6 passengers and all our gear. Yeah baby!

[Kevin]

vax,

No offense taken.

Kevin

[Keith A]

Climb,

I've got to agree with most of the other repsonses you have seen.

Several years ago when we had our third child, we had out grown our current vehicle and my wife wanted a mini-van. I really didn't want to get one, so we looked a wagons first. Didn't find anything I really liked, so we when van shopping. I have to say this was one of the best decisions we made. It has made travel so much more plesant and it drives really nice, much more car like than I expected. We ended up with a Quest and it has been a great vehicle. I've got it setup so I can haul my surfboards on top with a Yakima rack along with one of their cargo boxes -- the bikes go inside :D

I've I was buying one today, the Honda and Toyota would be the top two on my list.