Wahoo Element

[jgarrett]

Just ordered the wahoo element to replace my Edge 520. Was this the right move over the 820?

[dbnm]

The Wahoo Elemnt is terrific. I gave up my 510 for it.

Very easy to use with all of the bells and whistles.

[jgarrett]

how is the nav?

[dbnm]

I've not used it yet as I am riding 99% of the time in places I know

Plenty of great reviews about it.

[jgarrett]

hopefully its as stress free as advertised

[John H.]

The nav is great- I have used it on trips to find routes that I could not have found otherwise.
The main reason that I got my Element was that I was sick of going off course in poorly marked gravel events.

how is the nav?

[jgarrett]

The nav is great- I have used it on trips to find routes that I could not have found otherwise.
The main reason that I got my Element was that I was sick of going off course in poorly marked gravel events.

Yes! Gravel nav is my main concern. Looks like battery life is better too.

[Bencolem]

It’s much better than the 520 for Strava live segments if that’s your thing. I haven’t looked back since moving to the Bolt (wife now has the 520), so much easier to use and pairs much more reliably.

[floxy1]

Wahoo is a far superior product to Garmin IMO. The only consistent issue I’ve had is upon starting the computer it sometimes doesn’t automatically connect to the companion app if it’s already open. If you kill the app on your phone and reopen it connects fine.

[Billybob62]

+1 in favor of the Element. It's like a Garmin except it works....

[Lewis Moon]

I've owned an Elemnt for about a year now. I'll never go back to Garmin until they quit phoning it in and start listening, innovating and developing again. They've grown big and stagnant.

[glepore]

Agree with all of the above, I'd never go back. For gravel use, I have one caution-because you do all of the route planning/finding on the phone, can you do this in areas without cell service? Phones depend on a cell connection for nav. I've not had the issue because I only use the nav for t by t on routes that I've set up on RWGPS etc, so I don't know.

[YesNdeed]

Not sure how it compares to the 820, although I think the answer to that has been stated above.

I was recently asked how I like my 510..."It's fine" I said. I only use it for the bare essentials and its ANT+ capability, and hope that I can get Google maps on my iPhone when I get lost. I don't use the navigation function of the 510. "Exactly", he said. It works fine, but the Element is WAY better, and actually adds enjoyment to the ride. I think it looks pretty pro too, which never hurts ;)

[Mikej]

I think you wanted the “Bolt”? Unless you got a killer deal?
I have an element and it’s nice.

[saab2000]

I just ordered the Elmnt Bolt. Looking forward to it based on all the positive reports.

It will be replacing a Garmin 510, which has served quite well though I was a late and reluctant adopter. There's no going back.

I just hope the screen contrast is better than my 510. That was one of the things that annoyed me about the 510, though when I decreased the amount of data on the screen and learned to access more screens and therefore bigger numbers, it became less of an issue.

Definitely excited to try the Bolt.

[dbnm]

If you belong to the Rapha Cycle Club, you can get 20% off Wahoo products.

[jgarrett]

I think you wanted the “Bolt”? Unless you got a killer deal?
I have an element and it’s nice.

I was torn, went with the bigger one for mapping reasons. Hope its not overkill

[dbnm]

I ordered both and kept the bigger one.

It's the perfect size.

[shovelhd]

Yup. My old diseased eyes need the larger screen.

I'm having some trouble with data recording now, but I don't know if it's the Elemnt or something else.

[jruhlen1980]

Love my Bolt, and it's worked flawlessly for me in gravel events. (Just have to create the route in RideWithGPS, and sync RideWithGPS to your Wahoo account to make sure you get turn by turn. Downloading the route and then uploading it to your Bolt doesn't give you turn by turn for some reason, have to sync accounts.)

After 6+ months I finally found my first negative, and it's not really a big deal -- I put some clip on aero bars on my gravel bike and when I'm in aero for too long it loses satellite connection, I assume because my fat head is between the computer and the satellite.

This is easily solved (for me) by using the BarFly aerobar mount, and moving the computer further forward so I'm not blocking the satellite as much with my body.

[KVN]

The biggest negative IMO is that you can’t pan the map.

[tuxbailey]

Sorry for the non-experienced question. I just switched to the 520 from a 305 (big leap.) I have been pretty impressed by it. Why are there so many complaints about it? FWIW, I don't use the map feature.

[supercharger]

Evidently I'm in the minority but I have used the 820 for a year without any issues and bought a Wahoo Bolt because I thought it was going to be better than the Garmin. I sold the Wahoo after a week because preferred the Garmin 820. I wanted to like the Wahoo because I thought the buttons would be better than the touch screen (of the Garmin) but in my experience the Garmin was just easier to use in conjunction with my laptop. I like to download routes and found it much easier with the Garmin than the Wahoo.

[R3awak3n]

For maps the garmins with touch screen are still better but wahoo will overthrown em soon if they dont get their ass in check. Been hoping forever for a ridewithgpa integration or a way to map on phone and send to garmin...

Wahoo gotta be coming out with a new element, they have released thag a long time ago now

[Lewis Moon]

For maps the garmins with touch screen are still better but wahoo will overthrown em soon if they dont get their ass in check. Been hoping forever for a ridewithgpa integration or a way to map on phone and send to garmin...

Wahoo gotta be coming out with a new element, they have released thag a long time ago now

There was a notification about sumpin to do with maps when I turned my Elemnt on this morning. Your wish may have been granted.

[mcteague]

There was a notification about sumpin to do with maps when I turned my Elemnt on this morning. Your wish may have been granted.

https://support.wahoofitness.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000410550-ELEMNT-BOLT-Software-Updates

BOLT WB09-1836 - 11 Jan 2018

UPDATES

Added support for uploading workouts to 2Peak
Added turn-by-turn notifications for Ride With GPS routes exported with course-points in TCX and GPX format
Added new data field for TrainingPeaks Variability Index
Bug fixes and other improvements

OTHER ELEMNT FIXES

Force 4iiii power meters to connect using ANT+
Improve layout for turn-by-turn popup notifications
------------------------------------------------------------------

Tim

[shovelhd]

^This is also for the Elemnt. The turn by turn feature is going to fix one of the drawbacks I had with it. :banana:

[old fat man]

The biggest negative IMO is that you can’t pan the map.

I strongly agree with this statement. Another nice to have feature would be road names on the Wahoo.

[batman1425]

I got one for christmas and haven't had the ability to play with it much, but the limited indoor interaction I have had with it has been great. The app integration is stellar, it's fast, connectivity is great. Miles ahead of anything else in this segment.

[b3pkay]

I strongly agree with this statement. Another nice to have feature would be road names on the Wahoo.

I'll third that (regarding the inability to pan)... however, the work around is pulling the phone out and looking at the map. Not ideal.

[dsimon]

Can I use my Garmin cadence and heart rate monitor with the Wahoo or do i need to buy the package deal?

[b3pkay]

Can I use my Garmin cadence and heart rate monitor with the Wahoo or do i need to buy the package deal?

As long as they are Bluetooth or ANT+ sensors, yes.

[fellowsun]

About to pick up my first bike computer. Ive been drawn to the simplicity (as well as price) of Garmins Edge 25. It doesn't seem like the minimal display is very popular though. Has anyone tried the Elemnt Mini?

[jruhlen1980]

About to pick up my first bike computer. Ive been drawn to the simplicity (as well as price) of Garmins Edge 25. It doesn't seem like the minimal display is very popular though. Has anyone tried the Elemnt Mini?

Haven't tried the Mini but it's important to know that it's kind of a different animal -- it's more along the lines of an old-school sensor-based bike computer without GPS, except you can pair it to your phone for some added functionality. I.e., if you pair it to your phone it will track your ride, but the GPS functionality is coming from your phone, not the computer.

I don't believe it has any on-screen navigation or mapping ability, either.

[kmac]

how customizable are the data fields? i've searched everywhere but can't find a full list. everything i see seems to be very "performance oriented". i use my garmin 520 more for just meandering about, and then seeing where i went once the activity uploads to strava (i should say IF it uploads, which is why i'm considering the bolt).

so let's say i don't care about how fast i am or my heart rate, or even mapping (getting lost is half the fun). can i make a screen (and have it be my default screen) that might look something like the attached pic? i mostly like to know what time of day it is, how long i've been riding, how far i've been riding, what direction i'm riding in, and what temperature it currently is. i also like to have on a second screen the time of sunrise/sunset. can it be customized like that?

oh, and can you NOT have it tell you every time you enter a new strava segment? i really enjoy looking at strava AFTER the ride is done, but don't want to think about it during.

[livingminimal]

A lot in this thread about the Bolt and Element being better, but not a lot of specifics on how/why. Is it just turn by turn nav?

I have a 520 and have never had a single issue SAVE for downloading new software though the mac OS app is a pain sometimes.

Other than that, in terms of functionality, never had any problems with any Garmin product, and havent heard what makes Wahoo better. I would happily switch if I had good reason to.

[glepore]

1) the field zoom feature
2) the fact that any route that you have in your rwgps account is instantly available on the device, no need to export and load
3) data field legibility even in small form factor
4) battery life
5) actual communication with live folks at wahoo that give you real answers
6) the fact that you configure on a smartphone rather than on the device itself-this seems small, but in practice, its nice, but it assumes you ride with your phone if you want to do on the fly routing

Downside? At times, it seems any wahoo product is semi-beta, in that needed development work continues post sale.

[livingminimal]

1) the field zoom feature
2) the fact that any route that you have in your rwgps account is instantly available on the device, no need to export and load
3) data field legibility even in small form factor
4) battery life
5) actual communication with live folks at wahoo that give you real answers
6) the fact that you configure on a smartphone rather than on the device itself-this seems small, but in practice, its nice, but it assumes you ride with your phone if you want to do on the fly routing

Downside? At times, it seems any wahoo product is semi-beta, in that needed development work continues post sale.

Thanks!! This is very helpful.

[FlashUNC]

A lot in this thread about the Bolt and Element being better, but not a lot of specifics on how/why. Is it just turn by turn nav?

I have a 520 and have never had a single issue SAVE for downloading new software though the mac OS app is a pain sometimes.

Other than that, in terms of functionality, never had any problems with any Garmin product, and havent heard what makes Wahoo better. I would happily switch if I had good reason to.

1) The fact you make changes to the device via the app alone is a life saver compared to Garmin's system of either on-device or via desktop program alterations. The app works seamlessly and easily to make whatever tweaks you want to settings, data that's displayed, etc etc. I wouldn't wish Garmin Connect on my worst enemy.

2) Legibility and ease of use for the data fields. I can slim down my main page of data to just gearing (eTap) and a clock if I want to. Or I can expand it out to all the other data fields I would be interested in.

3) If you're into this, the live tracking Strava segments can be fun gamification for your local climbs. Certainly perked up one recent ride when I was feeling good, and beat a previous PR up a hill I hadn't done in a while by 10 seconds.

4) Reliability. So far the thing just works. No weird issues with signal dropping, software bugs and the like that seemed to plague whatever Garmin I had at any given time.

Simplest answer is they just looked at everything that sucks about a Garmin, and tried to solve those issues.

[berserk87]

how customizable are the data fields? i've searched everywhere but can't find a full list. everything i see seems to be very "performance oriented". i use my garmin 520 more for just meandering about, and then seeing where i went once the activity uploads to strava (i should say IF it uploads, which is why i'm considering the bolt).

so let's say i don't care about how fast i am or my heart rate, or even mapping (getting lost is half the fun). can i make a screen (and have it be my default screen) that might look something like the attached pic? i mostly like to know what time of day it is, how long i've been riding, how far i've been riding, what direction i'm riding in, and what temperature it currently is. i also like to have on a second screen the time of sunrise/sunset. can it be customized like that?

oh, and can you NOT have it tell you every time you enter a new strava segment? i really enjoy looking at strava AFTER the ride is done, but don't want to think about it during.

You can display any and all of the fields you mention (not sure on sunrise/sunset though). It's done via the phone app, and it's easy to do. You can also disable the Strava notifications. I love my Bolt - but I don't use the same functions you mention, except for overall ride time and distance. Mine shows power stats, HR stats, etc. I use the lap function a lot, too, for interval training. I've set up the lap function to display different fields (i.e. lap avg power, current power, lag avg HR, time in lap, etc) than my regular riding mode.

My question to you is whether you really need to spend the money on a Wahoo unit. For what you want, you could use one of many more inexpensive (even wired) cyclocomputers. And you could use Strava via the phone app. If you are not using power, mapping, HR - what's the upside to buying a Wahoo for you? Is there some other advantage that I am not seeing?

I'm not trying to tell you how to spend your money. I'm just pointing out that you may be after a piece of equipment that could be more complicated than you want.

[kmac]

You can display any and all of the fields you mention (not sure on sunrise/sunset though). It's done via the phone app, and it's easy to do. You can also disable the Strava notifications. I love my Bolt - but I don't use the same functions you mention, except for overall ride time and distance. Mine shows power stats, HR stats, etc. I use the lap function a lot, too, for interval training. I've set up the lap function to display different fields (i.e. lap avg power, current power, lag avg HR, time in lap, etc) than my regular riding mode.

My question to you is whether you really need to spend the money on a Wahoo unit. For what you want, you could use one of many more inexpensive (even wired) cyclocomputers. And you could use Strava via the phone app. If you are not using power, mapping, HR - what's the upside to buying a Wahoo for you? Is there some other advantage that I am not seeing?

I'm not trying to tell you how to spend your money. I'm just pointing out that you may be after a piece of equipment that could be more complicated than you want.

appreciate the thorough response! i guess my reasoning is that i THINK the gps units (even the garmin one that is recently driving me insane) have way better battery life than my phone would if i'm asking it to do gps and take pictures and all the other things i'd be asking of it on a ride. and for whatever reason, i seem to really like to know the temperature as i'm pedaling (i guess it helps me decide if my whining at that moment is justified).

my hope was that i could set up whatever thing i end up with, have it sit on my stem there for maybe 3-4 rides between charging, see all those fields i had mentioned right there on my home screen, not have my phone battery get depleted while riding, and have it reliably/automatically upload to my strava account once done. and once up there, i do like to look at info about how fast i went, what my elevation profile looked like, etc -- so the accuracy of the unit is a nice thing for me. i guess it's just nothing i worry about while i'm actually on the bike, since i'm mostly looking to be fit and have fun, and maybe don't want to face the reality that i'll never be very good at the thing i spend so much of my life doing :)

a lot to consider though. if i thought that a simpler unit (for a while i really had been considering the garmin edge 25) could get me all those things, i'd probably go that route. but i'm probably willing to pay a premium for reliability and functionality, especially since n==1 for computers and all.

i do wonder if my gps preconceptions (accuracy, battery life) between phone and gps units are outdated though. i've never tried to use strava on the phone for long rides simply out of fear it'd run me down to nothing, but maybe that was only true 5 years ago.

and if only i could get past my love of that silly temperature graph...

[livingminimal]

1) The fact you make changes to the device via the app alone is a life saver compared to Garmin's system of either on-device or via desktop program alterations. The app works seamlessly and easily to make whatever tweaks you want to settings, data that's displayed, etc etc. I wouldn't wish Garmin Connect on my worst enemy.

Thanks for your whole post, but especially this. This might be reason enough to justify leaving Garmin.

[jgarrett]

I would also add that that the wahoo ELEMNT connection stability with Stages power meters has been flawless for me. I had nothing but problems with my 520. Dropped signal multiple times per minute. Dealt with garmin and stages extensively, receiving warranty replacements for both. The issue was clearly with the 520. I have found a few threads claiming they just don’t play well together.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[madsciencenow]

I would also add that that the wahoo ELEMNT connection stability with Stages power meters has been flawless for me. I had nothing but problems with my 520. Dropped signal multiple times per minute. Dealt with garmin and stages extensively, receiving warranty replacements for both. The issue was clearly with the 520. I have found a few threads claiming they just don’t play well together.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Same issue w/ edge 1000 and same outcome w/ Wahoo w stages PM.

I will say the garmin 1000 does maps better and the auto pause feature on garmin is much more sensitive when paired w the same sensors on the same ride as the wahoo. If the wahoo gps was a tad more accurate it would be really useful for turn-by-turn navigation which is really easy to set-up using the paired app. Currently, this feature works but if you need to make a series of quick turns you will likely miss one. Prolly not a big deal for most users but worth noting for me as I’m severely directionally impaired.


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[dem]

I would also add that that the wahoo ELEMNT connection stability with Stages power meters has been flawless for me. I had nothing but problems with my 520. Dropped signal multiple times per minute. Dealt with garmin and stages extensively, receiving warranty replacements for both. The issue was clearly with the 520. I have found a few threads claiming they just don’t play well together.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Weirdly, the 520 worked fine with my two stages.. but would flake out with my Powertap G3! Garmin also had no answer and sent me a useless warranty replacement. Wahoo ELEMNT bulletproof across all devices.

Per the dictionary:
Definition of grage
1 a : violent and uncontrolled anger when a Garmin product does something flakey
b : a fit of violent wrath caused by 1990s UI, buggy software or half implemented features in a Garmin product
c archaic : insanity caused by Garmin support

[CDollarsign]

Does anyone know if the text size can be changed for turn by turn navigation? Sometimes its too small for me to read on the bolt. Also, I like the LED lights but in the sun you really cant see them...

[glepore]

Don't quote me on this, but the stages issue is b/c the wahoo connects via btle, not ant+ - the wahoo can do both.

[benb]

Huh.. I just had connectivity issues with my Stages PM + Edge 1000 yesterday. It hadn't happened in a long time, and it mostly only happens indoors on the trainer.

So random and annoying, as it has worked the last 25 rides in the basement in the same spot on the same bike with all the same stuff in the room.

I think it has more to do with the antenna in the gamins or something. I had a Fenix 3 and it had WAY more dropouts than the Edge 1000 did on the trainer. Basically so many dropouts it was just about useless indoors. BTLE must be more resistant to whatever it is (interference), as just like mentioned before, I connected my iPhone with the stages diagnostics app and it was rock solid. (The stages did need a FW upgrade, makes me wonder if they update the Stages when things change in the Garmin devices)

In the last month with the Garmin I've had:
- Software update caused a battery drain bug when the unit was not in use
- Had to factory reset the Garmin (seems to have fixed battery drain)
- Had to re-enter all my settings and reconnect all the sensors

If Wahoo could fix all that and just have a rock solid device like an old School cyclocomputer that might make me jump over. I know they may need to occasionally update the software to keep it working with smartphones, etc.. but I would really prefer a rock solid FW that didn't have to be updated.

I do really want good GPS/Nav on the unit though. I don't use it that much on my Garmin but it's really really useful when you need it/want it, and I also love just being able to flip over to the map to see where unknown roads might go.

As for Strava and stuff I don't want that integrated with my bike computer at all.. but I've had no trouble completely turning it off on the Garmin. I am tempted to say I don't really want the unit talking to the smartphone at all as it seems like mostly a battery drainer.

[jgarrett]

[QUOTE=benb;2342925



If Wahoo could fix all that and just have a rock solid device like an old School cyclocomputer that might make me jump over. I know they may need to occasionally update the software to keep it working with smartphones, etc.. but I would really prefer a rock solid FW that didn't have to be updated.



.[/QUOTE]



I feel like that’s exactly what they have done. A user friendly, trouble free head unit for training that also does nav good enough for most. The route uploading into nav is a clear advantage over garmin.

I’ll open this can of worms....I compare it to the Apple/Android debate. The Garmjn(android) clearly does more, if you have the savvy and patience but can be glitchy...the wahoo(apple) is extremely user friendly, slightly limited with some advanced features, but has everything you need, and reliable.

If there is a tie breaker, I’ll give it to Wahoo for their customer service. They are a small company and seems like they are really trying to do it right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[supercharger]

If Wahoo is similar to Apple and Garmin is similar to PC then:

https://i.imgur.com/UFK1Jz3.jpg

[berserk87]

A firmware update doesn't necessarily mean that there is an error to be fixed. Often times its an upgrade to additional functionality.

[jtbadge]

If Wahoo is similar to Apple and Garmin is similar to PC then:

Nah, my Garmin is both uncustomizable AND unreliable.

[LesMiner]

At first I had a Garmin 705. It did a lot of stuff the wireless cycling computer did not. I added a Powertap rear wheel. As long as I rode by myself no problem. In a group ride the experience was different. If there were any other Garmin speed/cadence sensors nearby it would connect with the other ones. When in a group speed is not so bad. Cadence would really be a problem. I stop pedaling and the Garmin would display 90 RPM or whatever someone else was pedalling. During a ride it would be impossible to get the Garmin to sync up to my sensors. Same is true for power meters. My friend had an SRM and a Garmin as well. Nothing like not pedaling and seeing the power meter display 200 watts. Any data going into Garmin Connect was useless.

I upgraded to a Garmin 800. Fewer problems getting sensors to sync properly. If the bicycle profile was correct the sync was more reliable. There were times the power meter sync would drop out or sync with another. I wanted to record spin cycle classes. The health club had bikes with a Stages power meter and head unit. I went into the classroom early to sync with Stages unit. I created a profile and all was working. Class starts and all the other unit are syncing with my Garmin 800. It displayed "too many power meters" so again the Garmin was useless.

At one time Garmin had a stand alone app to load data to your PC. Then Garmin Connect the internet browser app came along. The biggest difference was Garmin Connect does not display percent grade. Later the support for the standalone app was dropped. You can setup a field on the Garmin to display grade. You can also download Garmin data to RWGPS to get percent grade. Tired of the Garmin issues plus a need to get a better display I got a Wahoo Element. I already had a Wahoo Tickr. Over the last year and 5,000 miles I have not had any syncing problems. I have been alternating between 2 bikes without an issue. I have used the tracking feature with my wife. Wahoo sends her a link to track me. I was stranded once in the Black Hills. I had a flat then a blow out. I called my wife to get me and she used the Wahoo tracking to find me. I believe Strava premium can do the same thing. I have had one issue. If while on a group ride I stop and go into a coffee shop. I take my iPhone with me and leave the Wahoo on the bike. The sync between the two is lost and the ride data recording is also lost. I may have ridden 50 miles but the recorded data may show only 30, the point where I stopped.

From the Wahoo app connections to Strava, RWGPS, iPhone Health are some of what you can connect. Garmin cutoff the Garmin Connect connection to Wahoo.

[benb]

I'm a software engineer.. nothing annoys me more than an update which offers 0 new functionality that I can see or care about but causes new bugs.

In the case of the latest Garmin update there is nothing I can see in the features that is different at all, but there were clear bugs.

For a while every single Garmin update for the Edge 1000 erased all my Data screens, etc.. and reset it back to the factory "Train/Race/Indoor" activity profiles, along with erasing all my sensors.

I literally haven't seen a single improvement in 2 years through any of the updates.. maybe they are adding stuff but it's silly stuff like updates to the Strava segments and stuff which I keep turned off.

The only thing that I find less than helpful with the Wahoo stuff is the reliance on Smartphones. Smartphones march on which force Wahoo to have to updates stuff over time.

Some of Garmin's older stuff is ROCK solid because it's not all integrated into phones and such. My old Etrex Vista HCX still works perfectly with all the PC software. Half the need for the constant updates to the Edge devices is because they're tethered to the smartphone apps. The smartphones constantly have their OSes changing in non-backward compatible ways. That forces Garmin/Wahoo to have to constantly update their app, and then they can be forced into having to update the software on the devices. A lot of that does not work out well for the company financially, which is why you see the anti-consumer behavior where they're trying to find an artificial way to make you buy a new device. When the software interfaces with Mac, and particularly Windows, nothing changes in ways that constantly require software maintenance from the company so stuff can stay stable longer. Mac is worse than Windows there, one of the reasons the Mac tends to be so high quality is Apple forces software vendors to update more than MS does. MS traditionally goes to incredible lengths to keep 3rd party software from breaking. But even the Mac is still light years better than iOS or Android in this aspect.

I think there are other items with the design of Garmin Connect that suck and make everything worse though. I think the app is passing data straight through to the cloud rather than syncing Edge <-> Phone and then letting the software on the phone handle things after the Edge device is done. It causes everything to be glacially slow and buggy when anything is gone wrong with the cloud or the network. I also get the impression it's not intelligent at all about how it checks which data on the device needs to be uploaded. Because I recently had to reset mine I watched it go through a 15 minute sync. I think it actually uploaded every single ride on my device to the cloud to check whether they were already there, instead of having the device keep a unique ID for each ride and then being able to check them all and then only upload the 1 ride on the device that is new.

Garmin's development is in Kansas, Wahoo is in Atlanta. Neither is a hot spot for software developers that's going to attract the best engineers but I'd say Wahoo's location gives them a distinct advantage because even though Atlanta isn't Silicon Valley/Boston/Austin/RTP. Articles I've seen in the past made it sound like Garmin was heavily sourced with foreign engineers/contractors brought in on Visas and that Garmin then might not really treat them all that well. I'd probably love to go work on Garmin devices if the work environment was good but no way in hell I'd move to Kansas to do so.

[sethjs]

So I've gone from Garmin 500 (pretty good) --> 510 (pretty crap) --> 520 (not bad) --> Bolt (pretty great).

Overally, agree with the sentiments here. Wahoo's better. Massively more reliable. Longer battery life. I rarely use the 520 any longer.

That said, I have 2 nits with the Bolt and I wonder if others find the same thing:

1. Strava Live Segments. On the Bolt, it simply calculates where you are vs your race partner over the average of the segment. So if it's a long segment with hills, you fall behind on the hills and catch up on the descents. The Garmin, on the other hand, seems to look at your speed vs partner much closer to "real time" and so accounts for hills, flats, etc. So I find Live Segments on the Bolt almost worthless because I don't know where I really am, but pretty good on the Garmin.

2. The GPS signal quality isn't as good. Especially under trees. I suspect this is because the Garmin has both US satellites and the Russian glonass satellites. Practical implication being it's pretty bad at determining your current speed without a speed sensor on the bike.

[benb]

Just a couple thoughts Sethjs:

1) Can you turn the live segments off on the Wahoo? Regardless of whether the virtual partner works better on the Garmin they're still insanely annoying as they pop up and block the actual data screen you want to see. Nothing is more annoying than doing an interval and it pops up the Strava BS and hides your power #s to show you the little strava video game.

2) GLONASS might help the Garmin devices but they also tell you to turn it off to save battery. Hard to say.. the Edge 1000 I have has been dead accurate the entire time I've had it.

I actually had to use my iPhone to track a ride last week because of the Garmin battery bug I hit.. the iPhone (8+) was so horrifically bad in comparison to the Garmin it made a useless Strava track. It'd have me 100 yards off the road passing through buildings. So bad it wouldn't even register segments I was riding over!

[sethjs]

Just a couple thoughts Sethjs:

1) Can you turn the live segments off on the Wahoo? Regardless of whether the virtual partner works better on the Garmin they're still insanely annoying as they pop up and block the actual data screen you want to see. Nothing is more annoying than doing an interval and it pops up the Strava BS and hides your power #s to show you the little strava video game.



This is the kinda thing that Wahoo's just better at. You have 3 choices. A) On and auto switch to live track screen B) On and NO auto switch to screen C) Off.

[dem]

Wahoo uses both US & GLONASS GPS network. I've noticed no worse accuracy with my ELEMNT vs 510/520, but maybe the antenna on the BOLT is smaller. I do a lot of riding under heavy wet Redwoods, so I expect some loss.

Strava segments are unsatisfying for me because so many were made with pre-GLONASS devices. I'd say for a long 30+ minute segment, 75% of the time it drops me off the segment thinking I went off course.

I could re-create them and then use them, but I'm not using them to chase times, just to tell me how much longer it is to the top of a mountain, so have not bothered.

[unterhausen]

I really want to get a Bolt. My garmin 800 is really annoying. I rode 300km into a headwind last Saturday, and it stopped giving nav cues 20 miles before the end of the ride when I was really tired and didn't want to pay attention. Why they can't do that right is beyond me. And I seem to have far fewer problems with my device than others do with the newer models. The people I ride with that have 820's are afraid to go off-course, because then they get no nav cues at all, unless it randomly starts giving cues later. Or it locks up and they can't upload the ride to strava, which for some people means it didn't happen.

[glepore]

The wahoo tells you you're off course, but it doesn't reroute, and you have to look at the map to get back on course. I don't mind this much, as once you're back on it ALWAYS picks back up with tbt, and never loses its mind like Garmin can. Had forgotten about that actually, thanks for the memories.

[sitzmark]

Are Elemnts contract manufactured in China? If so keep an eye on the status of newly proposed tariffs - GPS devices made in China are on the list for 25%. No other bike related products are currently affected.