I dont understand cycle computer tech. stuff, please help

[bicycletricycle]

So, I have been thinking of trying out some more modern gear on a bike, specifically, a power meter and a GPS head unit (with directions for touring). I am curious about what kind of set ups people like and/or use for this. I guess the simplest thing to do would be to get a GPS head unit that is ANT+ compatible (Garmin or phone?). I don't think that I will be using GPS all the time and might just want to run a power only head unit and then just add a GPS to the handlebar or something when needed. I guess a smart phone can do all of this as well but the battery life might be crap. Also, it seems like some kind of out front mount for a head unit is the best option, however, if you want to supplement a GPS I guess you would just mount it to the bars or a quad lock stem mount thing? I have not seen a double out front mount.

To complicate things, I guess an out front computer mount basically prevents front bag usage? OR maybe a small burrito bag could still be used?

To even further complicate things, I like to ride narrow on the bars so I prefer to have nothing mounted on the bars if possible.

Anyways, I would really appreciate any tips and tricks and especially pics of what people like to use for power and GPS on their bikes.


I know this is sort of a complicated question so I thank you in advance for your responses.

Ryan

[echelon_john]

www.dcrainmaker.com is the place to start. LOTS (TONS!) of info about power meters, head units, etc.

Head units are *relatively* straightforward; you'll basically choose from Garmin, Wahoo, or a smattering of others.

Which type of power meter is more subjective. If you are okay with road pedals/cleats, I would recommend the Powertap P1 pedals; they're selling refurbished dual-side ones for $629 on the Powertap site currently. Indistinguishable from new. Very easy to switch between bikes should you wish.

If you want to run MTB shoes/cleats, then you're looking at a crank or hub based system; depending on your 'stable' of bikes, these may or may not be easily switched between bikes.

Really spend some time on the dc rainmaker site--the guy does a great job.

PS Garmin and Wahoo both make stem mounts that wouldn't interfere with a handlebar bag.

[bmeryman]

I haven't used a ton of different computers, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I like the Garmin 800 or 810 or whatever that level is called now. It's relatively simple to use and just worked as expected. I couldn't ask for much more. Used it with a powertap hub for a while and also as a GPS when I was in Switzerland several years ago.

Like echelon_john suggested, I had mine mounted on the stem. It was out of the way.

[FlashUNC]

Read what DC Rainmaker says, then go buy a Wahoo Element Bolt.

[Mark McM]

Firstly, as was seen in a thread I started last summer, there are virtually no "power only" head units that don't also incorporate a GPS. And all GPS units have relatively short battery lives. (What I mean by "relatively short" is that their battery life is measured in hours, rather than in months as for non-GPS head units).

It is true that a smart phone has all the capabilities to do power measurement, speed, distance, GPS turn-by-turn routing, etc. But there are three serious shortcomings. Firstly, smart phones tend to be quite large, and their handlebar mounts quite cumbersome. The next two are related: Smart phone battery lives tend to be short, and made even shorter by the need to have their backlights on constantly if used as a bicycle computer; and even with their backlights on, they often have poor visibility in bright sunlight. That's why most bicycle computers have reflective or transflective displays, which only need backlight in low-light conditions.

Just about every quality GPS head unit these days (except for the very smallest and very cheapest) have downloadable maps and turn-by-turn routing. They vary a bit by cost and usability, so read the DC Rainmaker web site for in-depth reviews.

Personally, I don't find a GPS unit very useful unless it has a map display. And that requires a certain minimum size of display. For casual GPS usage, I just throw a smart phone in my pocket (and hey, it also doubles as cell phone!). When I want to have the map display available while moving, I have a Garmin 800, which has a full color map display. The Garmin 800 also doubles as a full feature cycle computer, with all the standard "dashboard" functions (speed, distance, altitude, etc.) plus power.

[echelon_john]

Pretty much this.

Had a Garmin for a while; interface & setup sucked. Got a Bolt, speed/cadence/HR sensors and some Powertap pedals, and am 100% set for the foreseeable future. Couldn't be easier to configure & manage.


Read what DC Rainmaker says, then go buy a Wahoo Element Bolt.

[Gummee]

Oh goody! A religious argument.

Someone pass the popcorn!

M

[kppolich]

Power meter on the bike (crank based quarq's and P2M) and Garmin mounted out front for me. Also have a burrito supreme bag which doesn't interfere with brakes or the Garmin on my cx bike.

Computer: All of them have customization for the data that you see on the screen. You can setup multiple bikes on the same computer too. You can also setup multiple pages on the same computer to show different ride data for each page.

For example when I ride inside all I want to see is Power (3 second average), Cadence, and Heart Rate.
When I ride outside I have a screen that shows Distance, Speed, Cadence, and 3 second Power.

The data fields are endless and you can set them up in a snap on the bike computer itself or with the Wahoo on your phone and what you see is completely up to you!

Pics:
https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5499/31487399962_cce8601ee9_c.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/1/509/31634051225_4238e74027_c.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4309/35464886964_5cf63c2e07_b.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4382/23529129708_d2ffd9e307_b.jpg

[bicycletricycle]

So all the head units that have power functions and a screen big enough for useful GPS directions and map functions have total crap battery life?

what do people do on a tour? or just a nice 8 or 10 hour ride?



Firstly, as was seen in a thread I started last summer, there are virtually no "power only" head units that don't also incorporate a GPS. And all GPS units have relatively short battery lives. (What I mean by "relatively short" is that their battery life is measured in hours, rather than in months as for non-GPS head units).

It is true that a smart phone has all the capabilities to do power measurement, speed, distance, GPS turn-by-turn routing, etc. But there are three serious shortcomings. Firstly, smart phones tend to be quite large, and their handlebar mounts quite cumbersome. The next two are related: Smart phone battery lives tend to be short, and made even shorter by the need to have their backlights on constantly if used as a bicycle computer; and even with their backlights on, they often have poor visibility in bright sunlight. That's why most bicycle computers have reflective or transflective displays, which only need backlight in low-light conditions.

Just about every quality GPS head unit these days (except for the very smallest and very cheapest) have downloadable maps and turn-by-turn routing. They vary a bit by cost and usability, so read the DC Rainmaker web site for in-depth reviews.

Personally, I don't find a GPS unit very useful unless it has a map display. And that requires a certain minimum size of display. For casual GPS usage, I just throw a smart phone in my pocket (and hey, it also doubles as cell phone!). When I want to have the map display available while moving, I have a Garmin 800, which has a full color map display. The Garmin 800 also doubles as a full feature cycle computer, with all the standard "dashboard" functions (speed, distance, altitude, etc.) plus power.

[bicycletricycle]

that set up with the bag looks good, can you get into that while riding ok?

Power meter on the bike (crank based quarq's and P2M) and Garmin mounted out front for me. Also have a burrito supreme bag which doesn't interfere with brakes or the Garmin on my cx bike.

Computer: All of them have customization for the data that you see on the screen. You can setup multiple bikes on the same computer too. You can also setup multiple pages on the same computer to show different ride data for each page.

For example when I ride inside all I want to see is Power (3 second average), Cadence, and Heart Rate.
When I ride outside I have a screen that shows Distance, Speed, Cadence, and 3 second Power.

The data fields are endless and you can set them up in a snap on the bike computer itself or with the Wahoo on your phone and what you see is completely up to you!

Pics:
https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5499/31487399962_cce8601ee9_c.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/1/509/31634051225_4238e74027_c.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4309/35464886964_5cf63c2e07_b.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4382/23529129708_d2ffd9e307_b.jpg

[kppolich]

The zipper is pretty stiff so its not the easiest to get into or close while riding. Doable-yes. Safe-prob not

[echelon_john]

Most will give you plenty of life for a 'normal' ride--12-15hrs.

For a tour, same as cellphone...external battery pack/recharger, grab a plug when you can, solar...



So all the head units that have power functions and a screen big enough for useful GPS directions and map functions have total crap battery life?

what do people do on a tour? or just a nice 8 or 10 hour ride?

[cp43]

So all the head units that have power functions and a screen big enough for useful GPS directions and map functions have total crap battery life?

what do people do on a tour? or just a nice 8 or 10 hour ride?

I have no experience with power meters, only rides requiring GPS navigation longer than the battery life of the GPS unit.

As far as I know, you have two options. Power the unit from a dynamo hub, or from an external battery pack. For a tour, I think the dynamo option is better.

I know that you can charge a Garmin as you use it, I'm not sure about other brands.

Chris

[mcteague]

Read what DC Rainmaker says, then go buy a Wahoo Element Bolt.

Exactly the path I took. Plus lots of other reviews on Garmin and Wahoos. No regrets.

Tim

[kramnnim]

Garmin 1030 has a long battery life (~15+?) but is $$&

[bicycletricycle]

Most will give you plenty of life for a 'normal' ride--12-15hrs.

For a tour, same as cellphone...external battery pack/recharger, grab a plug when you can, solar...

any idea how long when you are not using turn by turn? that should extend the life?

[C40_guy]

What's your purpose in adding a power meter? If you're not actively training for racing, I'm not sure you'll find a lot of value in the additional information...

What exactly would you do with it...particularly if you're touring...

Just saying...

[bicycletricycle]

What's your purpose in adding a power meter? If you're not actively training for racing, I'm not sure you'll find a lot of value in the additional information...

What exactly would you do with it...particularly if you're touring...

Just saying...

mostly just for fun and to see what it is like.

[C40_guy]

mostly just for fun and to see what it is like.

Perfectly reasonable. :)

[Mark McM]

any idea how long when you are not using turn by turn? that should extend the life?

I don't think the turn-by-turn navigation by itself takes much power, I believe it is the GPS itself that consumes the power (in addition to the radio receiver, it takes a lot of math that has to be done quickly to resolve location to great precision). Some units allow one to turn off the GPS system*, which should increase battery life.

*The GPS turnoff feature is actually intended for riding on an indoor trainer, but there's no reason you couldn't ride outdoors with the GPS turned off.

[bicycletricycle]

I don't think the turn-by-turn navigation by itself takes much power, I believe it is the GPS itself that consumes the power (in addition to the radio receiver, it takes a lot of math that has to be done quickly to resolve location to great precision). Some units allow one to turn off the GPS system*, which should increase battery life.

*The GPS turnoff feature is actually intended for riding on an indoor trainer, but there's no reason you couldn't ride outdoors with the GPS turned off.

or if the CIA is chasing you :)

[cpamplin]

I had the same questions a year or so ago. Bought a Garmin Edge 800 w/ Barfly mount here on Paceline, pre-programmed it with a handful of routes before a trip to Scottsdale and used the turn-by-turn navigation on a couple of ~7+ hr rides. On one hand, it was great to just relax and focus on the ride and not worry about getting lost. On the other hand, I am fairly certain I haven't used it since. I log all of my rides to track mileage, but most of my routes are local and 99% of the time I throw a cell phone in my pocket and turn on Strava. It's hard to explain; I do have fun looking at my ride data afterwards, but for some reason I don't want/need/like a computer out front while I'm riding.

Re: battery life, I found that using GPS and turn-by-turn nav I got ~7 hours on the brightest setting and could extend that by dimming the display. 8+ hours would be a stretch for the 800, but I'm sure the newer batteries are waaay better. So yeah, I have a Garmin 800 w/ Barfly if you want to try a cheap option before jumping in with both feet...

[berserk87]

Read what DC Rainmaker says, then go buy a Wahoo Element Bolt.

Hey - might be the first time I agree with this guy on anything.

[dton]

If you want a GPS for touring and directions I would not recommend the Wahoo, as I'm sure you would realize the moment you start to read about them.

They have base level maps with the roads as just lines, no street names, etc. Directions work fine as long as you've mapped your route our prior to hitting the road.

As of right now, there is NO perfect GPS unit out there that combines the simplicity of google maps on your cell phone, with the dependability and battery life of a dedicated GPS unit. Most have their trade offs that you should be aware of. i.e. Garmin slightly harder to use and navigate, but more capable than the current Wahoo units. Wahoo units are easier to use but more limited in functionality. That's not to say that they won't make touring more enjoyable and predictable.

As for power meters, everyone has their preference. IMO, if you want set-it and forget it, I think crank-based systems such as Quarq or Power2Max can't be beat for their dependability, decent battery life and easy operation. The pedal based systems are good but having to change or charge two sets of batteries isn't super appealing to me somehow. Not to mention most of them are road-specific which may not fit your needs if you run SPD.

[djg21]

So all the head units that have power functions and a screen big enough for useful GPS directions and map functions have total crap battery life?

what do people do on a tour? or just a nice 8 or 10 hour ride?

I’ve never had a problem with full-day is rides, or with the battery in my Garmin Edge 1000 running down over the course of the day. I typically would put it on a charger every day after I’m done riding, but a few times, I’ve gotten a couple days with rides of 3-4 hours each day before recharging. I also kept a usb cord in my car so I could plug it in and charge it while driving in a pinch.

I just got an Edge 1030 last week because I’m switching to Garmin Vector 3 pedals on my new bike, and wanted to see if the pedal dynamics is helpful. If you’re interested on a like-new Edge 1000 with a cadence/speed sensor (or two) let me know. It’s also posted to the classifieds.

[FlashUNC]

Hey - might be the first time I agree with this guy on anything.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[berserk87]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Is it ironic twice a day?

Either way, you are still one of my favorites on this forum.

[kramnnim]

I’ve never had a problem with full-day is rides, or with the battery in my Garmin Edge 1000 running down over the course of the day. I typically would put it on a charger every day after I’m done riding, but a few times, I’ve gotten a couple days with rides of 3-4 hours each day before recharging. I also kept a usb cord in my car so I could plug it in and charge it while driving in a pinch.



My 1000 usually beeps the "low battery" warning (20% left) after about 5 hours. I do have it connected to a lot of sensors, though.

Having the map screen active takes up even more power.