OT: LYTM where to Spring Break

[Zee]

Hello All,

I am hiding this conversation here rather than on a travel forum because I am trying to be sneaky and plan a surprise trip for my wife to the Southwest. We have been talking about going to Grand Canyon for years, and I think our time might be too short to really do 'everything' we want.

The idea for GC would be fly into Phoenix on Tuesday night, spend some time in Sedona on Wednesday/Thursday, and get to the Southern Rim after that. We will have to return on Sunday, as we both have to be both back to work on Monday.

The alternative is flying into Vegas and doing Zion/Bryce. This looks enticing for different reasons. 2 things I KNOW we cannot do; Angel's landing and the Narrows. My wife cannot get to the 3rd story of a fire tower (heights :no::eek:) and the Narrows would be too cold to walk in water for hours.

We like nicer hotels and food when possible, as well as remote/scenic activities during the day.

As an example, for our 1 year anniversary, we explored nearly 40 miles on foot and drove over 200 in 3 days around the greater San Francisco. In other words, vacations are not restful.

TLDR;

Have you gone to Sedona/CG for 4 days and get it all in?

Would you think Zion/Bryce would be more efficient in a short time frame?

[lhuerta]

I understand TLDR, but what does LYTM mean? Just curious....

Yes, I googled it, but could not find applicable context.

[weisan]

I know where we going on spring break this year but you might differ.

https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/07/8c/7b/12/chisos-basin-campground.jpg
Big Bend national park.

[Zee]

I know where we going on spring break this year but you might differ.

https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/07/8c/7b/12/chisos-basin-campground.jpg
Big Bend national park.

I might have to update this; no camping for us yet. Looks incredible however!

Her neck/back is easily tweaked after a bad nights sleep and I do not want to experiment with sleeping on the ground in a remote area.

I understand TLDR, but what does LYTM mean? Just curious....

Yes, I googled it, but could not find applicable context.

Let You Tell Me.

Bad habits from another forum; I'll have to update the title!

[gospastic]

I haven't been to the Grand Canyon yet but I went to Zion last year and loved it. I did a spontaneous day trip out there. If you can't do Angel's Landing you can do Observation Point as an alternative. It's a little more elevation but does not have steep drop offs.

[PeregrineA1]

If you like more remote/less traveled destinations, I would save the Grand Canyon for a summer trip and go to the north rim. 10% of the visitors and a completely different experience-in my view much nicer. Much, much nicer. The south rim is crowded and very touristy. Fly to Vegas, drive 3 hours to the north rim. Make reservations for a cabin 6-9 months in advance, eat at the lodge. Great hikes, incredible views, amazing forests and meadows. We went in 2017 the 3rd weekend in July. Temps were in the low 80's during the day and high 50's at night. We were just past peak wildflowers and it was still great.

Sedona as a stand alone from PHX would be a great 4 day weekend. Plenty to do and escape the huddled masses in town.

Likewise Zion and Bryce from LAS. Easy drive. If you go to Zion, check out Grafton, a ghost town south of the park entrance and adjacent to Gooseberry Mesa. Gooseberry is also great, though likely better if you have a mountain bike.

If it were me, I'd stick with one location in any event for a four day weekend. Plenty to do at all of the locations.

[Jaybee]

When is your spring break? The North Rim is 8300 feet amsl, and still likely to be snowed in until end of March or so, depending on snowpack. That means facilities are closed, open for day use or backcountry primitive camping (permits required). The South Rim stays open all year. Zion/Bryce/Arches will also be open, but I'd expect decent snowpack there as well.

For a 4 day long weekend, pick one of Sedona/Flagstaff/S. Rim (fly in to PHX) or Zion/Bryce/Arches (fly in to LAS). Personally, I like Zion/Bryce/Arches better. Maybe hit the highly underrated Capitol Reef NP as well.

[mhespenheide]

I've lived (and traveled extensively) in the area.

If you don't like crowds, Sedona/South Rim/Zion are all to be avoided. However, crowds can easily be mitigated at all three -- more or less.

For four days on the ground, I'd recommend Sedona for the entire time. Pricey but beautiful hotels, excellent food across the gamut of price ranges. Oak Creek, the town just south, is less expensive. If you start hiking relatively early, the trails will not be crowded, especially on the longer hikes with more elevation gain. Or hike early, come back into town for a nice lunch, and then head back out in the late afternoon. Lots of options for different kinds of hikes, too -- canyon versus ridgeline versus hilltop.

The South Rim has great backpacking, but the day-hiking is less varied than Sedona. And the main trails basically drop down into the canyon, then climb right back up out of it. My favorite thing to do at the South Rim is to bicycle the Hermit's Rest road, which is limited to shuttle buses and bikes.

Zion has exploded in popularity in the last ten years, with almost all of the visitors in a small section (of a small park). I love it, but it's hard to manage these days. And the best hikes there are problematic if you're afraid of heights.

[fignon's barber]

vacations are not restful.

Have you gone to Sedona/CG for 4 days and get it all in?



Yes, we did exactly this trip this past summer. We wanted to do a quickie, inexpensive trip rather than a full blown vacation. Left on Monday morning and were home Friday night. Flew into Vegas on SWA direct ( Vegas is 1/3 the price plus car rentals are super cheap, $11/day). Drove from Vegas through Hoover Dam/ lake Meade to Grand Canyon area. Hotels around the park aren't great, so we stayed in an old route 66 town of Williams. Hotels were ok (not great), but good choices for eating. Stayed there mon/tues nights. Late afternoon Wednesday, drove from Grand Canyon to Sedona ( about 90 mins, last half hour beautiful ride). Wednesday/Thurs nights in Sedona. From there, you can fly home from Phoenix, or drive back to Vegas (about 5 hours). We had a good pace on this trip, but never felt rushed.

[choke]

Obviously it depends on what you want to do, but for me with no hiking on the agenda one day at the South Rim was enough time.

I'm sure that most won't agree with me, but I found Meteor Crater (37 miles east of Flagstaff) to be more interesting than the Grand Canyon.

[Birddog]

When is your spring break? The North Rim is 8300 feet amsl, and still likely to be snowed in until end of March or so, depending on snowpack. That means facilities are closed, open for day use or backcountry primitive camping (permits required). The South Rim stays open all year. Zion/Bryce/Arches will also be open, but I'd expect decent snowpack there as well.

For a 4 day long weekend, pick one of Sedona/Flagstaff/S. Rim (fly in to PHX) or Zion/Bryce/Arches (fly in to LAS). Personally, I like Zion/Bryce/Arches better. Maybe hit the highly underrated Capitol Reef NP as well.

Given the amount of snow that has hit the SW that may not be the case this year. The mountains were bare last week and I believe they still are.

[Tickdoc]

Checkout Wildland trekking. Haven’t done any of their Grand Canyon treks, but my son and I did Yellowstone with them and it was superbe.


http://www.wildlandtrekking.com/

[Likes2ridefar]

Given the amount of snow that has hit the SW that may not be the case this year. The mountains were bare last week and I believe they still are.

Rumor has it maybe snowing now or sometime this week. We may see rain tonight in chandler, a special occasion indeed.

I was in flag and near GC this past weekend and it was 60F during the day and no snow anywhere besides man made at Snowbowl.

[Zee]

I've lived (and traveled extensively) in the area.

If you don't like crowds, Sedona/South Rim/Zion are all to be avoided. However, crowds can easily be mitigated at all three -- more or less.

For four days on the ground, I'd recommend Sedona for the entire time. Pricey but beautiful hotels, excellent food across the gamut of price ranges. Oak Creek, the town just south, is less expensive. If you start hiking relatively early, the trails will not be crowded, especially on the longer hikes with more elevation gain. Or hike early, come back into town for a nice lunch, and then head back out in the late afternoon. Lots of options for different kinds of hikes, too -- canyon versus ridgeline versus hilltop.

The South Rim has great backpacking, but the day-hiking is less varied than Sedona. And the main trails basically drop down into the canyon, then climb right back up out of it. My favorite thing to do at the South Rim is to bicycle the Hermit's Rest road, which is limited to shuttle buses and bikes.

Zion has exploded in popularity in the last ten years, with almost all of the visitors in a small section (of a small park). I love it, but it's hard to manage these days. And the best hikes there are problematic if you're afraid of heights.

Super insightful! The Hike House website is something I found to be really useful. Any places to really target/avoid?

Yes, we did exactly this trip this past summer. We wanted to do a quickie, inexpensive trip rather than a full blown vacation. Left on Monday morning and were home Friday night. Flew into Vegas on SWA direct ( Vegas is 1/3 the price plus car rentals are super cheap, $11/day). Drove from Vegas through Hoover Dam/ lake Meade to Grand Canyon area. Hotels around the park aren't great, so we stayed in an old route 66 town of Williams. Hotels were ok (not great), but good choices for eating. Stayed there mon/tues nights. Late afternoon Wednesday, drove from Grand Canyon to Sedona ( about 90 mins, last half hour beautiful ride). Wednesday/Thurs nights in Sedona. From there, you can fly home from Phoenix, or drive back to Vegas (about 5 hours). We had a good pace on this trip, but never felt rushed.

Still not out of the realm of possibility. What all did you do with your time at each location?

Obviously it depends on what you want to do, but for me with no hiking on the agenda one day at the South Rim was enough time.

I'm sure that most won't agree with me, but I found Meteor Crater (37 miles east of Flagstaff) to be more interesting than the Grand Canyon.

Interesting! Any particular reason for the lack of interest in the GC?

Given the amount of snow that has hit the SW that may not be the case this year. The mountains were bare last week and I believe they still are.

Rumor has it maybe snowing now or sometime this week. We may see rain tonight in chandler, a special occasion indeed.

I was in flag and near GC this past weekend and it was 60F during the day and no snow anywhere besides man made at Snowbowl.
The North Rim has its appeal, and we are looking at the first week in April.

[Jaybee]

Given the amount of snow that has hit the SW that may not be the case this year. The mountains were bare last week and I believe they still are.

It has been an exceptionally dry and warm winter throughout the SW so far.

At those elevations though, you are at risk of a big storm anytime between October and April. I remember a few years where crappy early ski seasons turned awesome about mid-February, and a backpacking trip in Grand Staircase -Escalante that got cut short in March some year in the mid-00s. Just don't want the OP to lock himself in to the N. Rim (which is truly amazing, BTW) without knowing all the risks.

[Zee]

If you like more remote/less traveled destinations, I would save the Grand Canyon for a summer trip and go to the north rim. 10% of the visitors and a completely different experience-in my view much nicer. Much, much nicer. The south rim is crowded and very touristy. Fly to Vegas, drive 3 hours to the north rim. Make reservations for a cabin 6-9 months in advance, eat at the lodge. Great hikes, incredible views, amazing forests and meadows. We went in 2017 the 3rd weekend in July. Temps were in the low 80's during the day and high 50's at night. We were just past peak wildflowers and it was still great.

Sedona as a stand alone from PHX would be a great 4 day weekend. Plenty to do and escape the huddled masses in town.

Likewise Zion and Bryce from LAS. Easy drive. If you go to Zion, check out Grafton, a ghost town south of the park entrance and adjacent to Gooseberry Mesa. Gooseberry is also great, though likely better if you have a mountain bike.

If it were me, I'd stick with one location in any event for a four day weekend. Plenty to do at all of the locations.
Sounds like you could make a case for 3 trips out this way, and with good reason.

The North Rim is really untapped, but at 5 hours from LAS and a short season without being really hardcore, it is easily explained.

[IFRider]

Truly remarkable area. We sprung for a really nice hotel/resort (https://www.lauberge.com/resort/photo-video-gallery/). The location is perfect for relaxing and heading out on adventures. We hiked a bit, trip to Grand Canyon and a separate trip out to Antelope Canyon and Navajo country. Lots of nature sites to take in. Weather is spectacular then. The mountain biking is amazing although we did not. We get out to the White Line Trail (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzhlDnTv0pc) when taking a jeep tour. Saw some riders with mad skills riding it. Food was great in town (walking distance).

Easily top vacation we have taken.

Warren

[choke]

Interesting! Any particular reason for the lack of interest in the GC?I don't know how to explain it....it was cool but I guess I expected more somehow given all the superlatives I'd read about the place over the years. I love the outdoors but it just didn't thrill me like other places that I've visited. Perhaps if I'd hiked down inside the Canyon I'd have left feeling different.

[joev]

Can't recommend Sedona enough. Great short hikes. http://www.hikesedona.com/most-popular-hiking-trails/. Good food...if bike rentals, jeep tours... Good hotels. We've stayed here: https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g31352-d74269-Reviews-Arabella_Hotel_Sedona-Sedona_Arizona.html . We've also stayed at the "Star" but that was just wierd...(they rented us the front desk/caretakers room!)

I've visit the Grand Canyon but only do a day trip. Can't get enough of the view. I've found the family couldn't take more than some hours there.

I'd try a side trip to Prescott and "Whiskey Row" or a night in a b&b. The Whiskey Off-Road race is April 27-29th so either avoid or go then! No in-betweens on this choice...crowds...

Do all this before May!!!!

[Birddog]

The South Rim can be done in a single day if you are not going to hike down. If they still show the film at the Imax theater just outside the park, see it first. Before you go to GC, read the book "The Emerald Mile".

[bking]

I've lived (and traveled extensively) in the area.

If you don't like crowds, Sedona/South Rim/Zion are all to be avoided. However, crowds can easily be mitigated at all three -- more or less.

For four days on the ground, I'd recommend Sedona for the entire time. Pricey but beautiful hotels, excellent food across the gamut of price ranges. Oak Creek, the town just south, is less expensive. If you start hiking relatively early, the trails will not be crowded, especially on the longer hikes with more elevation gain. Or hike early, come back into town for a nice lunch, and then head back out in the late afternoon. Lots of options for different kinds of hikes, too -- canyon versus ridgeline versus hilltop.

The South Rim has great backpacking, but the day-hiking is less varied than Sedona. And the main trails basically drop down into the canyon, then climb right back up out of it. My favorite thing to do at the South Rim is to bicycle the Hermit's Rest road, which is limited to shuttle buses and bikes.

Zion has exploded in popularity in the last ten years, with almost all of the visitors in a small section (of a small park). I love it, but it's hard to manage these days. And the best hikes there are problematic if you're afraid of heights.

I've been in Vegas since 1990, before that grew up and lived in Phoenix. I'd pretty much agree with mhespenheide, do it out of Phoenix, head to Sedona and the south rim. The south rim is the rim that's photographed and that people think of when they think of the Grand Canyon. Between Sedona/Oak Creek and the South Rim, would be easy to spend 4 or 5 days. And while there are crowds, it's not Disneyland, or NYC. There's room outdoors in the west. Also, the drive up from Phoenix, up 17 to Flagstaff, really is one of the most scenic "freeway" drives you'll find. Much better than the drive from Vegas.
I've been all over Zions, and while it is beautiful, unless your going to hike it extensively, or bike it, I don't see spending more than a day. And, the north rim is wonderful, much quieter, but it is not the South Rim.
Also, if airfare is cheaper into and out of Vegas, that same Sedona/South rim is equally as doable from either airport. I just like the drive up from Phoenix more than from Vegas.

[tylercheung]

I went on "light" weekend excursions to some of these places. Some thoughts:


1)Sedona/Antelope Canyon may be shorter than Sedona/Grand Canyon? Short hikes, may be less crowded this time of the year. It is less of a grand scale the than the Grand Canyon but lovely lights and shadows during the day and is probably a one-day or half-day hike if you plan it. The GC is also not far from Sedona.


2) Zion: for the Narrows - if the water is not too high, you can rent drysuit bottoms and walking sticks from any number of outdoor companies in the town. It may still be crowded but again, this may be the off season. You have to be a little careful where you put your feet but it is not too bad, unless you are dealing with significant orthopedic or balance issues.

Bryce can be as easy or hard as you want - the Park Service has done a really nice job in making a lot of points accessible.


3) We did a hike to Havasu Canyon - this needs more planning as you have to purchase a permit from the Havasu Nation to gain access. There is a lot of hiking but it is mostly flat land; there can be some rockiness in the gravel/stones on the path. I am not sure if you can hire a mule to take you down or not.


Many parks there.

[Zee]

I appreciate the wisdom and advice everyone has shared!

We have an Air BNB in Flagstaff and rental car, but the amount of trails in the area is simply overwhelming. Could anyone speak into some of the 'must do' in the South Rim/Flagstaff/Sedona region? We are physically capable and will be good for some distance/elevation, even though everything starts at a mile up!

Small aside; I thought it would be great to do a Rim, River, Rim and when my wife did some quick searching, relayed the 'bad idea' most people were commenting. I thought it was for families of 4 with a grumpy kid or 2 until I saw it was 17 miles with 4400' gain on the return. Holy. Cow.

Food spots would be very useful as well. We are landing EARLY in Phoenix and would love a great breakfast spot, as well as anything for lunch/dinner in Sedona/Flagstaff/South Rim. Yelp has been combed over, but it is impersonal. Higher end is fine.

[Likes2ridefar]

I appreciate the wisdom and advice everyone has shared!

We have an Air BNB in Flagstaff and rental car, but the amount of trails in the area is simply overwhelming. Could anyone speak into some of the 'must do' in the South Rim/Flagstaff/Sedona region? We are physically capable and will be good for some distance/elevation, even though everything starts at a mile up!

Small aside; I thought it would be great to do a Rim, River, Rim and when my wife did some quick searching, relayed the 'bad idea' most people were commenting. I thought it was for families of 4 with a grumpy kid or 2 until I saw it was 17 miles with 4400' gain on the return. Holy. Cow.

Food spots would be very useful as well. We are landing EARLY in Phoenix and would love a great breakfast spot, as well as anything for lunch/dinner in Sedona/Flagstaff/South Rim. Yelp has been combed over, but it is impersonal. Higher end is fine.

Brunch in tempe near the airport @ Snooze is pretty good.

Dinner in Flag: Pizzicletta - my favorite place in the area, Pato Thai, lumberyard brew pub.

Brunch in Flag - MartAnnes Burrito Palace

IMO the food sucks, i mean really sucks!!!, in the south rim. If you can i'd recommend bringing food with you from Flag. If that is not an option, and if you can hold off and avoid south rim food it is worth returning to the interstate to a small town called Williams. There are a few good places there.

[echelon_john]

Piggybacking onto this (great) thread as we're heading out there next week. Flying into Vegas, renting a camper van, driving to the South Rim for one full day there, then Vermillion Cliffs, then Zion, then back to Vegas.

With the camper, assuming there's no snow, is there any reason we can't go to the north rim and hike/explore? We'd kind of written it off due to official seasonal opening/closing dates but if the weather window is good, any reason not to go up there? Recommendations for camping, hikes? We'll be able to be self-sufficient in terms of food, etc for a couple of days.

Thanks!
JC

[Idris Icabod]

Good breakfast places I've been to in Scottsdale since you'll be heading north:

https://www.hashkitchen.com/

http://butterscafe.com/

[jimcav]

if you can hold off and avoid south rim food it is worth returning to the interstate to a small town called Williams. There are a few good places there.

worth a pic

[OtayBW]

let you tell me.

Bad habits from another forum; i'll have to update the title!
tfc!