A-force Al33 Ceramic

[BobbyJones]

Anyone here have some time on them?

Just got a November Wheels email and I'm intrigued.

[nobuseri]

I was backer #14 on the kickstarter. Finally got them after a year or so of waiting. The rims themselves are very nice. They build a stiff wheel. I got the standard build they had in the kickstarter; I am sure if you choose better hubs (from November), it will add more icing on the cake. November build nice wheels. Even with the Bitex/Novatec hub setup, they will be nice and stiff.

The ceramic coating on the wheel has been durable thus far. I am using the suggested SwissStop BXP pads. I think the pads wear a bit faster than usual, but I don't mind. As long as they stay black on the brake track, I am fine. I think some folks had great luck with the campy red pads.

I wish I could remove the "AFORCE" logo on the wheels (X 3), but it's not too bad. The wheels are a winner, and have had greats reviews all over the place.

I weighed one of the two sets I got. 720g Front, 900g Rear; 20/24 spoke without rim tape.

[Paz]

I have a set that November built me and have put close to 7000 miles on this year. I have the White Industries Hubs and they are spoked 20/24.

The build was great from November and they have remained true with no issues. They were originally supplied with a carbon pad that wore extremely fast and I upgraded to the Swiss stop BXP's.

The only thing I would say is the ceramic coating does wear, after 7000 miles I do have some areas where the coating has started to rub off. Braking is outstanding.

[glepore]

November/bitex here. Excellent wheels, no slower than my 50mm carbons, brake way better.

Have used BXP and Campy Red. Both wear kinda quickly. Actually prefer the Reds.

Great ride with Corsas and Latex. 25's measure 28 though, so make sure you have clearance. Feel almost like tubulars though.

[vqdriver]

i'd be interested on how they compare to the boyd altamont ceramics. i'm sure braking is similar but mostly i'd like to avoid the flaking that ye old mavics experienced.

[simonov]

i'd be interested on how they compare to the boyd altamont ceramics. i'm sure braking is similar but mostly i'd like to avoid the flaking that ye old mavics experienced.

Flaking on the old Mavic ceramics? Or on the newer/current Exalith? The current generation of Exalith, Oxic, PEO, ceramic, etc. is worlds apart from the old stuff Mavic used.

[Mackers]

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[mcteague]

I like the look of all black rims but figured these new coatings would eventually wear and look crappy. Plus, I read they eat up brake pads. So, my latest pair of wheels have Easton R90SL rims, WI hubs, with regular silver braking surface. They look fine to me and ride really nicely.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1870/8799/products/DSC_0011_1024x1024.jpg?v=1495551513

Tim

[Wasatch]

November built me up a pair after my garbage Pacentis failed. Don't have a ton of miles on them (around 500 miles), but I have been super happy with them so far. 919g rear, 747 front laced 24/28 to White Industry hubs, so they won't be winning any weight contests, but after destroying my Pacentis I wanted a more bombproof wheelset at the expense of a little weight. They burned through a set of conventional brake pads in two rides but the BXP's seem to work fine.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4350/37267527601_805ecbe4bc_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YMcPzk)SaltAir (https://flic.kr/p/YMcPzk) by Ryan K (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ryan_kendrick/), on Flickr

[BobbyJones]

Thanks for everyone with real world, related to the subject at hand feedback.


Wastach- :eek: HOT! :eek: Do you have a build thread somewhere on that? If not, please drop me a PM with your experience if you have time.

[R3awak3n]

I would consider the BOYDs, they have been excellent. Track still looks mint after 700 miles and apparently they have done tons of testing and track will last a long long time.

I did read the Aforce track is not as good as the boyds and some people were complaining that it was already fading after not so many miles.

Pads on the boyds do wear out a bit faster but they break better so its worth it to me. Oh and they look the businesssss


http://i63.tinypic.com/33ff6g2.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/haIHHsU.jpg?1


I just bought another set, thats how much I like them.

[colbyh]

That SaltAir is gorgeous, wow. I think that's the first time I've liked the new DA stuff on a steel bike.

[msl819]

November built me up a pair after my garbage Pacentis failed. Don't have a ton of miles on them (around 500 miles), but I have been super happy with them so far. 919g rear, 747 front laced 24/28 to White Industry hubs, so they won't be winning any weight contests, but after destroying my Pacentis I wanted a more bombproof wheelset at the expense of a little weight. They burned through a set of conventional brake pads in two rides but the BXP's seem to work fine.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4350/37267527601_805ecbe4bc_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YMcPzk)SaltAir (https://flic.kr/p/YMcPzk) by Ryan K (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ryan_kendrick/), on Flickr

That is one great looking ride. Never heard of Salt Air. What is their story?

[Wasatch]

Ha, thanks--I've been planning a build post, but haven't found the time. Hopefully soon. TLDR SaltAir is a newer builder here in Salt Lake City, and made the process incredibly smooth.

Thanks for everyone with real world, related to the subject at hand feedback.


Wastach- :eek: HOT! :eek: Do you have a build thread somewhere on that? If not, please drop me a PM with your experience if you have time.

[Wasatch]

That is one great looking ride. Never heard of Salt Air. What is their story?

Thanks! Matt is a newer builder based here in Salt Lake City. He won the 2017 NAHBS Best New Builder award. He is doing some incredible work, including a recent XCr build with a custom ENVE carbon seat tube.

[R3awak3n]

what color is that? I really like it.

[vqdriver]

They burned through a set of conventional brake pads in two rides

:eek:

[November Dave]

:eek:

Which is why you use the proper SwissStop BXP pads (we supply them with Al33s, and Boyd rims and builds come with them)

Overall, we've never had a wheel build go out that's been as well received as these are. Durability of the brake track has been at least in line with reasonable expectations ("a bit of wear" after 7000 miles seems reasonable to me, depending on use conditions and beyond what's here in this thread we simply haven't heard about brake track wear) but beyond that people just overall really enjoy them.

We also build with Boyd ceramics, although our data set on them is way way less than with Al33s, and pad wear seems the same for both. None of our Boyd builds will have been used for anything like 7000 miles yet, but there are obviously some out there. Either way, they're coatings/processes that have proven several orders of magnitude better than regular anodizing but aren't necessarily permanent, and the coating is but one part of the story. My wheels this year were regular machined side wall Al33s and I'm quite sure I've never enjoyed a set of road wheels more than them. I'm also quite sure that Altamont rims work out really well also, at least that's the feedback we've gotten.

McTeague - that photographer should get a raise. What a perfect photo!

**oops , forgot - I've seen the SaltAir before, but HFS that is a nice looking bike**

[Wasatch]

Thanks Dave! Your wheels finished it off perfectly!

Which is why you use the proper SwissStop BXP pads (we supply them with Al33s, and Boyd rims and builds come with them)

Overall, we've never had a wheel build go out that's been as well received as these are. Durability of the brake track has been at least in line with reasonable expectations ("a bit of wear" after 7000 miles seems reasonable to me, depending on use conditions and beyond what's here in this thread we simply haven't heard about brake track wear) but beyond that people just overall really enjoy them.

We also build with Boyd ceramics, although our data set on them is way way less than with Al33s, and pad wear seems the same for both. None of our Boyd builds will have been used for anything like 7000 miles yet, but there are obviously some out there. Either way, they're coatings/processes that have proven several orders of magnitude better than regular anodizing but aren't necessarily permanent, and the coating is but one part of the story. My wheels this year were regular machined side wall Al33s and I'm quite sure I've never enjoyed a set of road wheels more than them. I'm also quite sure that Altamont rims work out really well also, at least that's the feedback we've gotten.

McTeague - that photographer should get a raise. What a perfect photo!

**oops , forgot - I've seen the SaltAir before, but HFS that is a nice looking bike**

[scoobydrew]

Didn't know if I should make a new thread on this or not, but other than the list below, are there any other options for aluminum clinchers with ceramic/coated braking surfaces?


A Force AL33 Ceramic
Boyd Altamont/Altamont Lite
H-Plus Son Archetype
DT Swiss PR 1400 DICUT OXIC 21
Mavic R-SYS SLR
Mavic Ksyrium Exalith

[MaraudingWalrus]

Didn't know if I should make a new thread on this or not, but other than the list below, are there any other options for aluminum clinchers with ceramic/coated braking surfaces?


A Force AL33 Ceramic
Boyd Altamont/Altamont Lite
H-Plus Son Archetype
DT Swiss PR 1400 DICUT OXIC 21
Mavic R-SYS SLR
Mavic Ksyrium Exalith


I wouldn't say that the Archetype is coated - it's really just anodized over. It definitely wears out quickly - like, one ride in the wet quickly. They've never claimed other wise, but just worth clarifying that.

[R3awak3n]

yeah, the ano hplusson is a great rim and the coating lasts longer than the black archtype but yeah it does not last very long.

I also think you got them all.

oh actually, HED has one too. Ardennes black (https://www.hedcycling.com/ardennes-black/)

they unfortunately don't come as rim only but I heard are fantastic.

Oh also campy and fulcrum make a ceramic version as wheel AFAIK.

[eric01]

Didn't know if I should make a new thread on this or not, but other than the list below, are there any other options for aluminum clinchers with ceramic/coated braking surfaces?





A Force AL33 Ceramic

Boyd Altamont/Altamont Lite

H-Plus Son Archetype

DT Swiss PR 1400 DICUT OXIC 21

Mavic R-SYS SLR

Mavic Ksyrium Exalith




Add ritchey zeta superlogic to the list. Not much press out there on these wheels but I own a pair and quite like them. They ride well, relatively light, fantastic braking, stiff enough... nice set of wheels.

[fignon's barber]

yeah, the ano hplusson is a great rim and the coating lasts longer than the black archtype but yeah it does not last very long.
.

Agree. A nice thing about their ano coating is that it comes off completely in one rain ride. None of that "in between" look.

[weisan]

Add ritchey zeta superlogic to the list. Not much press out there on these wheels but I own a pair and quite like them. They ride well, relatively light, fantastic braking, stiff enough... nice set of wheels.

Agree.

[mcteague]

McTeague - that photographer should get a raise. What a perfect photo!



:D Well, of course, you know the image was "borrowed" from your site! That is the same basic build you did for me but I have no pix of my wheels.

Tim

[scoobydrew]

Ride report from my AL33 ceramics with brand new recommended Swissstop FlashPro BXP Pads:
- Loud rear brake squeal. Both front and rear pads are generously toed in, but the fronts don't squeal at all. Pads and pad holders are on the caliper nice and tight. Squealing is not constant.
- High pad wear (front only). Even with careful braking and modulation, the front pads eventually develop a "strip" of braking compound that sticks out from the pad itself.

Any ideas what might fix these issues? Fronts brake just fine but the rears don't inspire confidence.

[nobuseri]

Mine leave the same thin strip of brake residue. I just pull it off either after the ride or before the next.

The squealing, I don’t get often. Heard it a few times under hard braking during higher speeds.

These rims build a pretty stiff, solid wheel. And having the ceramic coated track is a plus. These two, minor downsides are something I can live with. But if someone has a solution, I am all ears.

[simonov]

What frame and brakes? I've had rear brake squeal on some PEO coated rims when using flexy brakes on a stiff steel bike. Switching to stiffer brake calipers cleared it right up.

[Mzilliox]

Oh man, so Boyd or A Force? its terrible to have good choices. sounds like the Boyds build up lighter?

[R3awak3n]

Oh man, so Boyd or A Force? its terrible to have good choices. sounds like the Boyds build up lighter?

The boyd lites will build signitficantly lighter, the non lights a bit lighter but they are not as deep as the aforces.

It seems the boyds have a better more resistant coating. The aforces have less louder graphics which is a plus for me.

[glepore]

Ride report from my AL33 ceramics with brand new recommended Swissstop FlashPro BXP Pads:
- Loud rear brake squeal. Both front and rear pads are generously toed in, but the fronts don't squeal at all. Pads and pad holders are on the caliper nice and tight. Squealing is not constant.
- High pad wear (front only). Even with careful braking and modulation, the front pads eventually develop a "strip" of braking compound that sticks out from the pad itself.

Any ideas what might fix these issues? Fronts brake just fine but the rears don't inspire confidence.

The BXP's work well, but fronts do wear quickly. I was happier with Campy Reds-still wore quickly, but not AS quickly.

[R3awak3n]

I really dunno how you guys are wearing these pads like crazy. My bxps wear at a pretty normal rate on my boyds. No problems.

[scoobydrew]

Using SRAM Force brakes on a Moots frame.

I'll try out the Campy red pads next.

I would've gotten the Boyd Altamont Lites if I wasn't offered such a great deal on the AL33s. My wheels built up 24/28 with CX Ray/Speed, Dt Swiss 190 rear and Alchemy front with brass nipples comes in at roughly 1545g.

IMO you can't really go wrong with either.

[simonov]

Using SRAM Force brakes on a Moots frame.

I'll try out the Campy red pads next.

I would've gotten the Boyd Altamont Lites if I wasn't offered such a great deal on the AL33s. My wheels built up 24/28 with CX Ray/Speed, Dt Swiss 190 rear and Alchemy front with brass nipples comes in at roughly 1545g.

IMO you can't really go wrong with either.

Those are the same flexy brakes that squealed with me. I switched to Red AeroLink brakes and the squealing stopped.