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View Full Version : which of the Greg Lemond frames were the one to buy


cnighbor1
01-02-2018, 04:50 PM
On new years day I rode up Mt diablo to the junction I was passed slowly by a cyclist on a Greg LeMond bicycle I asked some questions when I caught up seems he has 70,000 miles on the steel frame Reynolds 853 CF Fork He stated built by trek in early 90's in Wisconsin where they were built only for a short time He had just added all new DA Wheels and components Looked great
His was the Provence model
Is this the LeMond frame to own or is an even better frame with his name on it excluding CF or Ti and aluminum frames
here are a few on eBay now
1. Yes CF but nice https://www.ebay.com/itm/Greg-LeMond-1989-world-championship-racing-bicycle-signed-by-Mr-LeMond-27of-300/282681480280?hash=item41d1211458:g:bVQAAOSwuLRZ1QL 6
2. the Z frames built by della santa would be up there this is a Z built in Italy https://www.ebay.com/itm/1990-GREG-LEMOND-Z-TEAM-BICYCLE-TOUR-DE-FRANCE/332502317210?hash=item4d6aaeb89a:g:2VIAAOSwXPNaKKq W
3. ti Z https://www.ebay.com/itm/greg-lemond-Z-Team-Titanium-Merlin-Road-Bike-61/222777314639?hash=item33de900d4f:g:dXkAAOSwGUBaMFf i
4. A Z lugged https://www.ebay.com/itm/Greg-Lemond-vintage-road-bike-frame-Columbus-tubing-55-5cm-Restored/112715694659?hash=item1a3e610243:g:~M0AAOSwAC1aRCd 3
5. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Greg-Lemond-hand-built-60cm-Columbus-XTR-tubing-bike-with-Dura-Ace-components/192364480615?hash=item2cc9d10867:g:DoEAAOSwa3BaCyb V

dbnm
01-02-2018, 05:01 PM
This one :)

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=211311

John H.
01-02-2018, 05:15 PM
I think the nicest ones were the Pre-Trek 10 speed drive frames.
They made a few different tubing levels, the ones made with Columbus TSX were top on the line. Nice paint too.

FlashUNC
01-02-2018, 05:19 PM
Had a Della Santa-built LeMond for a built. Really nice bike.

bigbill
01-02-2018, 07:51 PM
The welded 853 with a Trek carbon fork is a great bike. At the time, it was the bang for the buck steel frame as long as the LeMond geometry fit you. He liked relaxed seat tubes (72.5) and a 74 head tube. Worked well with people with long femurs like me. If I was picking one from the list you provided, I'd go with #5 just because it comes with Scott LeMond Clip-on aero bars.

bikinchris
01-02-2018, 08:14 PM
You should know that LeMond frames had HUGE long top tubes.

Peter P.
01-02-2018, 08:25 PM
You should know that LeMond frames had HUGE long top tubes.

I didn't find that was the case. I found the top tube lengths pretty much average. I just don't want to dissuade the OP.

My first choice would be one of the lugged, Ten Speed Drive frames. Second would be the Trek-built steel TIG'd frames (I'm a steel fan.) Last would be the carbon frame.

Regardless, the big must-haves for me would be the graphics on the bikes the OP linked to, as well as the Z-Team color scheme, which is iconic.

As an alternative, getting Roland Della Santa to build a frame with "LeMond geometry" with Della Santa graphics but the Z-Team color scheme would be a cool compromise.

bart998
01-02-2018, 08:25 PM
Had a Della Santa-built LeMond for a built. Really nice bike.

This is the one... Della Santa built.

Ken Robb
01-02-2018, 09:00 PM
I had a LeMond Zurich that came with 853 tubes and a carbon fork with 1" quill stem and 9 speed Ultegra. It was much better than the Trek 1000 aluminum bike that preceded it. Then I replaced it with a Litespeed that fit me better.

Mike V
01-02-2018, 09:18 PM
#1 is a 1 of 300 limited made by Greg and Tomosso (Ten Speed Drive) is has some incorrect parts.

#2 is a first generartion Bilotto SL tubing. Not the top model but ride very nice.

#3 is a late model titanium. Not many of those made at all.

#4 is a second generation Bilotto that has been resprayed

#5 is a third generation Bilotto also SL

Out of these I would be all over the titanium one if it was my size.

I own a #1 already. I have really been thinking about having Rolland build me a Della Santa painted rainbow LeMond with Della Santa logos.

rccardr
01-02-2018, 09:29 PM
Charles, didn't I send you some photos of my NOS 3rd gen Team Z frame and fork at one point?
Maybe when you were looking for a frame for your friend...

saab2000
01-02-2018, 09:34 PM
You should know that LeMond frames had HUGE long top tubes.

They were race bikes but hardly out of the norm in terms of top tube length. They were appropriate and fit nicely as race bikes.

I liked this Sarthe though it wasn't a very stiff bike. I've occasionally looked for them online or the 853 model.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/261/31542640964_cc60cb6c37_b.jpg

lhuerta
01-02-2018, 09:49 PM
You should know that LeMond frames had HUGE long top tubes.

Not really....especially when u consider that his frames (at least the early Trek/LeMond frames) used a laid back geo with shallow seat tube angle similar to Merckx Century geo. It’s all about stack and reach....

ultraman6970
01-02-2018, 10:07 PM
The original lemond dela santa were white, and only a handfull of those were made.

As for the billato frames, there's no concistency in lugs, chrome even paint jobs making them hard to even put a date to them because u never know.

There is a TVT lemond aswell, IMO those are the ones that harder to get than steel ones. So IMO that's the one you have to get.

FreiburgDe
01-02-2018, 10:53 PM
They were race bikes but hardly out of the norm in terms of top tube length. They were appropriate and fit nicely as race bikes.

I liked this Sarthe though it wasn't a very stiff bike. I've occasionally looked for them online or the 853 model.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/261/31542640964_cc60cb6c37_b.jpg

I ride an 853 bike and built and test rode Lemond 853s in 2001-2002. I ride a size 55/56 and am pretty thin, but I felt like the Lemonds I tried were under-engineered in the BB/rear triangle stiffness. It looks like you're looking at a larger size, so maybe steer more to the TSX version or a non-steel model.

sales guy
01-02-2018, 10:59 PM
On new years day I rode up Mt diablo to the junction I was passed slowly by a cyclist on a Greg LeMond bicycle I asked some questions when I caught up seems he has 70,000 miles on the steel frame Reynolds 853 CF Fork He stated built by trek in early 90's in Wisconsin where they were built only for a short time He had just added all new DA Wheels and components Looked great
His was the Provence model
Is this the LeMond frame to own or is an even better frame with his name on it excluding CF or Ti and aluminum frames
here are a few on eBay now
1. Yes CF but nice https://www.ebay.com/itm/Greg-LeMond-1989-world-championship-racing-bicycle-signed-by-Mr-LeMond-27of-300/282681480280?hash=item41d1211458:g:bVQAAOSwuLRZ1QL 6
2. the Z frames built by della santa would be up there this is a Z built in Italy https://www.ebay.com/itm/1990-GREG-LEMOND-Z-TEAM-BICYCLE-TOUR-DE-FRANCE/332502317210?hash=item4d6aaeb89a:g:2VIAAOSwXPNaKKq W
3. ti Z https://www.ebay.com/itm/greg-lemond-Z-Team-Titanium-Merlin-Road-Bike-61/222777314639?hash=item33de900d4f:g:dXkAAOSwGUBaMFf i
4. A Z lugged https://www.ebay.com/itm/Greg-Lemond-vintage-road-bike-frame-Columbus-tubing-55-5cm-Restored/112715694659?hash=item1a3e610243:g:~M0AAOSwAC1aRCd 3
5. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Greg-Lemond-hand-built-60cm-Columbus-XTR-tubing-bike-with-Dura-Ace-components/192364480615?hash=item2cc9d10867:g:DoEAAOSwa3BaCyb V

The Trek made ones were from 1994 on. Not sure on the Provence model since I stopped looking at them once they were bought by Trek. I had an Excel made GLX frame. It had a problem and when I called up Clark Kent, they told me they could offer me a CK ti frame or a frame from the buyers. The Biggie of the Bigs. And it would be alloy or carbon. And I knew from that who bought them and just returned the frame. Hate that I did since I searched high and low for that model. And it was period correct with Mavic Zap on it.

If you want a LeMond, get one of the originals. Although, many people love the ti/carbon models. Supposedly they are super nice. Never rode one. I know a few who did and they love them. Greg did as well. He was and is a fan of titanium still.

#1 is a 1 of 300 limited made by Greg and Tomosso (Ten Speed Drive) is has some incorrect parts.

#2 is a first generartion Bilotto SL tubing. Not the top model but ride very nice.

#3 is a late model titanium. Not many of those made at all.

#4 is a second generation Bilotto that has been resprayed

#5 is a third generation Bilotto also SL

Out of these I would be all over the titanium one if it was my size.

I own a #1 already. I have really been thinking about having Rolland build me a Della Santa painted rainbow LeMond with Della Santa logos.

Correct on #1. And he wants WAAAAAY too much for that bike. He has another on there as well he wants too much for as well. He started the Worlds bike at $15k and has come down which is great but 8k is stupid high. And it's minus some period correct parts.

#2- This could be SL or TSX. I have a TSX with external TT cable routing and an SL with internal.

#3 isn't even a Merlin. Wrong dropouts. Most likely a Clark Kent model There were a few made by Litespeed before Clark Kent made them and took over distributorship of the LeMond brand.

The original lemond dela santa were white, and only a handfull of those were made.

As for the billato frames, there's no concistency in lugs, chrome even paint jobs making them hard to even put a date to them because u never know.

There is a TVT lemond aswell, IMO those are the ones that harder to get than steel ones. So IMO that's the one you have to get.

Correct on point 1. And they had the graphic of "Team LeMond" on them. They were back when he won Junior Worlds and became a brand. They were white with black panels and yellow graphics.

Correct on point 2. Many of the frames have different TT cable routing. Which is kind of frustrating. You can find them in TSX with or without internal TT cable routing. Same with SL/SLX. And the same issue with chromed fork tips and chromed drive side stay and rear dropouts.

Point 3- yes. There was a TVT model but it wasn't something readily available as a stock model. It was in the Z Team paint scheme. This was after he won Worlds in 89 with a TVT LeMond frame.

Another note on geometry...the top tubes were long-ish. Usually about 5mm longer. But he also had different angles which was the bigger difference.

sailorboy
01-02-2018, 11:13 PM
I have a della santa with ELOS tubing and love the ride. It has a very plain dark blue finish which is starting to get enough wear to have me ready to send it to velocolour soon for a new finish in something that will be an homage to the old tri-color fade but not exactly the same thing.

If this fits you, this is a pretty special thing https://www.ebay.com/itm/Greg-LeMond-complete-racing-bicycle/282694703142?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.M BE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D41376%26meid%3D43bc6ebf2fe94cc daf6bb98a906390e5%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D 6%26sd%3D282681480280&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Not the same cache of the 300 limited edition model, but I'd prefer to ride this one over a bonded TVT any day. That and the century finish campy stuff pretty special. That groupset would fetch a couple grand easy if you had to replace it.

Kontact
01-02-2018, 11:37 PM
I just got a 2000 Trek made 853/725 Lemond frame with the Icon Classic fork. It is as pleasant to ride as any frame I've tried. All of the steel bikes of that Trek generation were the same frameset and just varied by group. They are absolute bargains. (And the geometry is extremely normal by today's standards.)

https://archive.org/stream/LemondBicycles2000Catalog#page/n5/mode/2up

Trek production also included aluminum, Ti, all 853, 525 and the interesting spine bikes with titanium on the bottom and carbon up top.

https://archive.org/stream/LemondBicycles2003Catalog/_2003Lemond#page/n1/mode/2up

Then there's the Lemond Clark Kent titanium bikes and the Carbon Frames (Calfee).


The most attractive bikes to me are the old lugged ones, but there is something extremely sexy about a dirt cheap 853 frame and carbon fork that rides great.

Here's most of the old catalogs:
https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Lemond+Bikes%22

54ny77
01-02-2018, 11:39 PM
The newer ones with the beer can head tubes....man those got beat bad with an ugly stick. Who made those?

I had an 853 steel LeMond circa late 90's. Dunno who made 'em. Anyone know?

It was a good bike by & large, although had a slight shimmy at higher speeds. One time really moving good down a hill in SoCal (Pacific Island Drive for those who know it) it acted up, and....not fun.

cnighbor1
01-02-2018, 11:47 PM
Charles, didn't I send you some photos of my NOS 3rd gen Team Z frame and fork at one point?
Maybe when you were looking for a frame for your friend...
yes

sales guy
01-02-2018, 11:50 PM
The newer ones with the beer can head tubes....man those got beat bad with an ugly stick. Who made those?

I had an 853 steel LeMond circa late 90's. Dunno who made 'em. Anyone know?

It was a good bike by & large, although had a slight shimmy at higher speeds. One time really moving good down a hill in SoCal (Pacific Island Drive for those who know it) it acted up, and....not fun.

The new frames, the Washoe, that was made by Zen Fabrications in Oregon. Since Zen is gone now, Greg isn't offering frames any more. He is focused on the carbon 'Grail' stuff.

The 853 LeMond frames, those were made by Trek. I wouldn't be surprised if the fork was to blame for the shimmy. I had the same problem with a Trek fork back when I had one.

charliedid
01-03-2018, 12:02 AM
I sold Clark Kent frames and for a while rode the cheaper model. That bike sucked.

:)

54ny77
01-03-2018, 12:15 AM
That's an interesting factoid. Thanks!

I regret selling a Colnago w/super record back in the day to go and buy that LeMond, but oh well. I wanted those newfangled shifter things along with a modern rig, and that was my budget at the time. Oh silly me....

The new frames, the Washoe, that was made by Zen Fabrications in Oregon. Since Zen is gone now, Greg isn't offering frames any more. He is focused on the carbon 'Grail' stuff.

The 853 LeMond frames, those were made by Trek. I wouldn't be surprised if the fork was to blame for the shimmy. I had the same problem with a Trek fork back when I had one.

likebikes
01-03-2018, 02:14 AM
853, tigged, threadless fork. room for 28s & fenders under the short reach calipers

oldguy00
01-03-2018, 05:48 AM
You are all wrong!!!!!!!

This one (Calfee/Carbonframes):

http://tastydirty.com/pix/lemond-3.jpg

jumphigher
01-03-2018, 06:09 AM
I'd like any of the steel frames to build up, all the ones I've seen looked great. My own steel road bike has a long-ish TT as well, which I prefer over shorter ones.

zambenini
01-03-2018, 06:50 AM
A friend had a Nevada City that was a great bike. Dude ripped on it. Agree: any of this very common 853 TIG one’s should be good.

GregL
01-03-2018, 06:59 AM
While the Trek-built 853 frames had good tubes and geometry, the build and finish quality were hit-and-miss. Beware that head tubes may have to be reamed and faced and paint/decals may be poorly applied. I picked up a Poprad to replace a less well known frame from Taiwan. The Poprad fits me much better, but its overall build quality is much worse than the imported frame.

Greg

timto
01-03-2018, 08:36 AM
You are all wrong!!!!!!!

This one (Calfee/Carbonframes):

http://tastydirty.com/pix/lemond-3.jpg



Second this statement.

rwsaunders
01-03-2018, 08:59 AM
There's a 56cm Ventoux for sale locally...assume a Bilato built frame based on the seat stays and brake bridge?

https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/bik/d/pre-trek-hand-built-greg/6400462715.html

mistermo
01-03-2018, 09:12 AM
I'll echo what the others' said about TT length. It's hardly HUGELY long. Ive had a few and really liked the True Temper tubed bikes that followed the Reynolds 853 bikes. I had a Croix de Fer, which is the identical frameset to the Sarthe shown above, just spec'd with different components.

The most popular model seemed to be the Zurich, but most examples have a threaded fork or a 1in steerer tube. Eventually, the Zurich's became a steel/carbon fiber mix (spine concept) and when this happened, the Croix de Fer and Sarthe filled the all steel void, with a threadless, 1 1/8" steerer. They're great frames and, built with Campy Record and a Reynolds carbon fork, I considered mine a 'poor man's Pegoretti'.

KJMUNC
01-03-2018, 11:16 AM
You are all wrong!!!!!!!
This one (Calfee/Carbonframes):
http://tastydirty.com/pix/lemond-3.jpg

3rd this one.....although I've never seen one in a 60cm+ size for sale in 10+ years of looking.

#5 in the OP's list is the best bargain.....you're buying pretty much just for the frame and a few parts. The rust isn't terrible and you can sand a bit and get some new paint over the worst spots. Seller states it was kept in A/C most of it's life, but I'm guessing it was near the beach in FL given all of that surface rust. Better than a bunch of corrosion from sweat/road salt though.

Bentley
01-03-2018, 11:57 AM
I'm guessing this is a Ten Speed Drive model

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bop/d/steel-greg-lemond-frame/6441742369.html

Im in NBay tomorrow and plan on checking it out

Ray

54ny77
01-03-2018, 12:00 PM
That's a nice rig!

I'm guessing this is a Ten Speed Drive model

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bop/d/steel-greg-lemond-frame/6441742369.html

Im in NBay tomorrow and plan on checking it out

Ray

cash05458
01-03-2018, 12:49 PM
any of those 853 steel frames are pretty good...I have had a Zurich since 99 and it is still going (now just a rain/trainer bike)...hell, as it was tig welded I have broken it seriously twice and even had a buddy weld it for a case of beer...it has gone another 10 thousand miles since the last break...Trek never did a great job at tig welds in my opinion as I also broke a Lemond Ti/Carbon frame and that thing was unsalvageable...

sales guy
01-03-2018, 01:03 PM
For those mentioning whether certain steel ones are Billato/Ten Speed Drive ones, yes, they are. When they have the Greg LeMond and Hand Made stamp in the brake bridge, those were TSD/Billato frames.

montagna_lunga
04-07-2019, 06:16 PM
partial to the yellow Cinelli, love mine. Except its red. ish.

tuscanyswe
04-07-2019, 06:27 PM
What about this one. Anyone know what its is or if its something nice?

mastaliu
04-07-2019, 06:39 PM
I loved my Lemond Titanium Ti 3/2.5 GL in blue fade. I have no idea who made it but it was such a comfortable ride and light for the early 90s. I'd like to find another.

bicycletricycle
04-07-2019, 07:33 PM
A new calfee painted in that red yellow blue fade like he rode as a pro

jamesdak
04-07-2019, 08:08 PM
What about this one. Anyone know what its is or if its something nice?

I can guarantee that it is something really nice. That's one of the Billato built Greg Lemonds. They built them from around 1989 to 1995. I'm thinking it's from 1993 or earlier since from what I can see that looks like a Columbus label. They appear to have switched to Excell for these in the last couple of years.

Billato is a top notch Italian builder and the Lemond bikes they made were great. I have three of them and they are all great rides.

Also of not, these were Ten Speed Drive Imports and painted stateside with a paint way superior to the later Trek made bikes.

jamesdak
04-07-2019, 08:25 PM
As to the original question I honestly can't say. I've got 7 different Lemonds and love them all. Three Billato built bikes, one TSX, one Cromor, one Excell GLx. Then three Trek era Reynolds 853's. One Tourmelet, one Zurich, and one unique one.

The Gentleman's Poodle and Grouse Society Lemond:
https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/167016672.jpg

My favorite is the TSX tubed, Billato built Maillot Jaune.

It just does everything so well and then carries me along at full speed even when I get tired late in a ride.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166138354.jpg

I'm still sorting out my first Lemond Spine bike. A Tru Temper steel and carbon fiber mix that I picked up this winter and then upgraded to mostly Dura Ace.

tuscanyswe
04-08-2019, 07:29 PM
I can guarantee that it is something really nice. That's one of the Billato built Greg Lemonds. They built them from around 1989 to 1995. I'm thinking it's from 1993 or earlier since from what I can see that looks like a Columbus label. They appear to have switched to Excell for these in the last couple of years.

Billato is a top notch Italian builder and the Lemond bikes they made were great. I have three of them and they are all great rides.

Also of not, these were Ten Speed Drive Imports and painted stateside with a paint way superior to the later Trek made bikes.

Aha thanks for the info!

Yes has a columbus GL sticker which i assume was custom tubing for "his" bikes

jamesdak
04-08-2019, 08:27 PM
The GL tubing is interesting. I wonder what it indicates? I did find some other references to it.

The paint is similar to the 1994 Gan bikes I've seen before and like what is in the catalog. Yet it is different as is the tubing so maybe it's a 1993?

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/168436926.jpg


What dates are on the decal on the seat tube. That also helps to date these as it shows the various TDF wins.

Also, normally the BB is stamped with a size and then under that is a one or two letter indicator for the tubing type.

This is my Gan Lemond that I've never been able to fully pin down either. There's so little documentation on these.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166790982.jpg


This is the only post I found mentioning Columbus GL.

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/lemond-gan-gl-custom-steel-frame.30638/

Pearsom
04-09-2019, 12:30 AM
The GL tubing is interesting. I wonder what it indicates? I did find some other references to it.

The paint is similar to the 1994 Gan bikes I've seen before and like what is in the catalog. Yet it is different as is the tubing so maybe it's a 1993?

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/168436926.jpg


What dates are on the decal on the seat tube. That also helps to date these as it shows the various TDF wins.

Also, normally the BB is stamped with a size and then under that is a one or two letter indicator for the tubing type.

This is my Gan Lemond that I've never been able to fully pin down either. There's so little documentation on these.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166790982.jpg


This is the only post I found mentioning Columbus GL.

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/lemond-gan-gl-custom-steel-frame.30638/

I think those are Excell tubing... GL and GLX.. It's been a while so not 100% sure of this... someone may be more knowledgable...

Pearsom
04-09-2019, 12:35 AM
3rd this one.....although I've never seen one in a 60cm+ size for sale in 10+ years of looking.

.

Yup. Sold both of my Billato-built, 10 Speed Drive, 63cm TSX frames about 10 years ago.... (one may be with a forumite??....). Every once in a while I'll look for one to replace them -- Not a chance

jamesdak
04-09-2019, 08:21 AM
I think those are Excell tubing... GL and GLX.. It's been a while so not 100% sure of this... someone may be more knowledgable...

Yep, the one in the catalog is Excell Gl and mine is Excell GLx. But I have seen ones painted just like the one in the catalog that were columbus tubing. So maybe they were transitioning suppliers and using whatever.

oldguy00
04-09-2019, 08:27 AM
Although not a great fit for me, I was able to borrow one of the carbon/ti tete frames about 10+ years ago, one of the nicest riding frames I had ever been on, and was beautiful to look at IMHO.